Just say no to integrated batteries

[Gary]

I have one of those bikes that some think is pig ugly (Shimano BT-E8020 contained - Orange Surge). I bloody love how it looks and, more importantly for me, how it rides. There’s no mistaking it’s an eMTB!

I actually still like how the original Orange 222 looked with it's low slung top tube, clean lines and slack (for the time) H/A and low BB. But y'know what? There's not a single Orange FS bike in their 30yr+ history I've genuinely liked the ride of. Geometry has been good on a few over the years but that single pivot and leverage curve are just always a bit shit to ride.
Disclaimer: I haven't ridden a Surge (but can it really ride any better than the 20 other model Orange FS bikes I have ridden?)

 

[Fivetones]

Well, I definitely preferred it to the Levo. I have nowhere near the experience of some on here though so by the time I get my next bike I’ll know even more what I’m aiming at.

And I’m not alone in liking an Orange ?

 

[Gary]

Levo wouldn't be my first choice either but at least Specialized put more thought into its rear suspension characteristics than.

Orange designer: "hmmm... maybe this year we could move our only frame pivot forwards by 2, or maybe 3mm?"
Orange Marketing executive: "Go with 2mm Son"" "3mm's for next years frames"
Orange owners everywhere: "It now rides soooo much better than last years"

 

[CjP]

French people are just wierd.

 

[Fivetones]

Orange owners everywhere: "It now rides soooo much better than last years"

I’m defo waiting until they do 4mm. I’m no idiot.

 

[Zimmerframe]

has anyone ever had the battery nicked from their Emtb?

I think most bike thieves see the key by the battery and wonder how it opens the boot where the good stuff must be, like laptops and things .

Your more caring bike thief would steal the bike and leave the battery, so at least you don't feel so bad. Nick your battery and leave the bike - evil, pedaling home is a bitch.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Form vs Function - and we all have different ideas of what those two are (puts my popcorn down).

Take marriage for example. Don’t marry someone who doesn’t turn you on, otherwise you won’t have any offspring - unless of course if it is an arranged marriage that has political advantages for both of your kingdoms (but we know that often ends up in tragedy).

So folks, marry the one you love, and love the one you’re with - even if it naggs you later on and costs you more money than expected... the bike I mean. (picks-up some fruit because my wife just scolded me and took my popcorn away, apparently I need to eat healthily... mumble, mumble).

 

[outerlimits]

has anyone ever had the battery nicked from their Emtb?

This is why I have never taught the wife to use an Allen key. My Levo battery is safe ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

mumble, mumble

I think if she's nagging you but still wearing mumble trousers, you're still winning.

 

[Gary]

This is why I have never taught the wife to use an Allen key. My Levo battery is safe ?

Uncannily almost the exact same instructions pertain to using a key in an actual lock.

makes you think, eh?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Uncannily almost the exact same instructions pertain to using a key in an actual lock.

makes you think, eh?

You mean .............. she actually knows how to take that chastity belt off ?? and that ginger kid ....

 

[outerlimits]

has anyone ever had the battery nicked from their Emtb?

That day, when your battery runs out and you think someone has nicked it ?‍

 

[Gary]

 

[Eddy Current]

What?

Spectral On with aluminum frame weights around 22.5 kgs, with no carbon at all, pretty heavy wheel set. With carbon fiber parts, including the frame this can go sub20 kgs and at reasonable price compared with other ebikes of same specs ...

You can say what you want on other subjects but the cost of no integrated batteries ebikes is fairly lower than the good looking heavy expensive ebikes, thats a fact. You can buy a carbon fiber dt hubs wheel set or a better fork and rear shock from what you are saving, if the bike already don’t come with pretty good specs

 

[Gary]

Oh... do behave.
where are you going to get a one off Spectral: ON frame fabricated in Carbon?
The spectral:ON is 23kg with pedals. Please list where you'll save 3kg for a reasonable amount of money and leave the bike remaining useful.

You can buy a carbon fiber dt hubs wheel set or a better fork and rear shock from what you are saving,

you clearly misunderestimate the price of these parts and the minimal weight savings to be found from purchase.

I could get my E sommet to 20kg (with pedals) by simply replacing the dropper with the short seatpost from my dh bike and switching to a couple of flimsy 400g XC tyres and running 50g of sealant instead of the 150g I usually run. I wouldn't. But I could.

I'd love a sub 20kg Emtb... but not if it wasn't suitable for the sort of riding I actually do... and a Levo isn't that bike either. S-worx or otherwise.

 

[Eddy Current]

Oh... do behave.
where are you going to get a one off Spectral: ON frame fabricated in Carbon?
The spectral:ON is 23kg with pedals. Please list where you'll save 3kg for a reasonable amount of money and leave the bike remaining useful.

you clearly misunderestimate the price of these parts and the minimal weight savings to be found from purchase.

I could get my E sommet to 20kg (with pedals) by simply replacing the dropper with the short seatpost from my dh bike and switching to a couple of flimsy 400g XC tyres and running 50g of sealant instead of the 150g I usually run. I wouldn't. But I could.

I'd love a sub 20kg Emtb... but not if it wasn't suitable for the sort of riding I actually do... and a Levo isn't that bike either. S-worx or otherwise.

Ok maybe you’re right or not, doesnt matter, but I can assure you Canyon
dont put any effort to try keep weight minimal other than the external battery. Still is 1kg to 1.5 kgs lighter than the average alu ebike. With external batteries sub20 will be,no question, easier to achieve and no question way cheaper.

All I say is ”trends” tend to devour everything, like the 29ers, and I want some of the big brands keep bringing cheaper and lighter ebikes. Keep the option to choose is always good.

 

[Gary]

If you knew me you'd know already that I prefer external batteries. and know fine an external battery is the lighter design for an Aluminium frame.
the rest of what you are saying does not make any sense to me. Lost in translation perhaps?
but there aren't exactly a huge amount of sub 20kg emtbs around no matter what the material or battery location. so you're going to be paying a huge premium for that privelage.

 

[Eddy Current]

If you knew me you'd know already that I prefer external batteries. and know fine an external battery is the lighter design for an Aluminium frame.
the rest of what you are saying does not make any sense to me. Lost in translation perhaps?
but there aren't exactly a huge amount of sub 20kg emtbs around no matter what the material or battery location. so you're going to be paying a huge premium for that privelage.

Any translation problem here is my fault, sorry, my english used to be better ...

One thing I want to ask, why are the batteries not placed near the seat tube instead the front tube? Can’t be a 50/50 battery distribution front and rear possible? and then you can take the one on the front for a lighter setup and better weight distribution in a short ride.

 

[Eddy Current]

 

[Gary]

Don't apologise.
My spanish is non existant save ordering" Dos Cervesas por fa vor"
Remember true 50/50 weight distribution would also involve motor weight. so not just battery placement is important.
BTW No regular bikes have 50/50 weight distribution either.

 

[Eddy Current]

Don't apologise.
My spanish is non existant save ordering" Dos Cervesas por fa vor"
Remember true 50/50 weight distribution would also involve motor weight. so not just battery placement is important.
BTW No regular bikes have 50/50 weight distribution either.

Check the my engineer masterpiece desing above your message

 

[B1rdie]

Once in a while I stop and take a look at my spectralon and I love it.
While I am riding it we surely look good.
Do not have any issues with dirt and fits a nice water bottle.
To load it to the truck its way more easy with the batterie off and carrying an extra one is ok.

 

[Gary]

Check the my engineer masterpiece desing above your message

Yeah. i saw that. Clearly a descendant of Pablo Picasso himself

 

[Eddy Current]

Yeah. i saw that. Clearly a descendant of Pablo Picasso himself

Ladies and gentleman’s, introducing the brand new, Turbo Levo 2021, go further, go faster

Im a genius

 

[Gary]

Im a genius

Of course you are... in the Art world

Fuck Backpacks - IMO they are a pretty terrible place to add weight to a rider, not to mention hot sweaty and uncomfortable.

I rarely carry water at all (Scotland isn't exactly known for it's high temperatures)

 

[Eddy Current]

Of course you are... in the Art world

No, it’s called Balanced Motion, and I’m going to talk with Spe right now for my royalties

Balanced Motion, the best next big thing since 29ers

 

[outerlimits]

What if I told you they are moving right away from bike mounted batteries ?
Yep, they are going to backpack batteries, making the lightest eMtb in the world.

 

[steve_sordy]

@outerlimits I'm not sure whether you are jesting or not, but....

My backpack already weighs 7kg (Edit: I meant 7 pounds!) including 2 kg of water, so if I could transfer some of that crap to the bike and instead carry the battery on my back, you could be on to a winner!

The bike will be easier to lift over stiles and gates. Also easier to lift onto the roof rack or into the car. Definite winner.

How much does a battery weigh by the way?.............(goes into kitchen to find wife's scales)
My Focus TEC pack (378whr) weighs 2.24kg. I assume that the internal 378whr battery will weigh a bit less.

The problem will be the need to allow easy to disconnect cable connections for the number of time I part company with the bike, three times last outing (one OTB, one backwards over the saddle. and one sideways into the bushes). But the good news is that you get a built-in dead man's switch!

 

[Gary]

My backpack already weighs 7kg including 2 kg of water

WTF?

Why are you carrying over a stone of shite stuff on your back to ride an Ebike in the woods?

 

[outerlimits]

What if I told you they are moving right away from bike mounted batteries ?
Yep, they are going to backpack batteries, making the lightest eMtb in the world.

WTF?

Why are you carrying over a stone of shite stuff on your back to ride an Ebike in the woods?

Thats a bit crazy, 7kg. Mines probs 4kg tops when I got 3lt of water in it. I do carry a lot when I ride alone in remote areas. Water is never enough, have a bottle of electrolyte in the cage. It gets hot where I ride.
Battery backpacks are a thing for elec power tools for the garden.