Eddy Current
E*POWAH Master
- Thread starter
- #121
Done
Just say no to integrated batteries
- Thread starter Eddy Current
- Start date
Done
111 notifications plus 1 message. I couldn’t live with that on my screen.
Cyclopath1000
Active member
I tried two ebikes two sea otters ago the commencal meta 650 b and the pivot. The first one was the commencal. I think they both had external Shimano Batts. The minute I got on the commencal it felt perfect , for me that is , in feel. The guys at the park tool area had already praised it to the heavens. I ordered mine from Stephane, about an hour later or so after a quick ride on the twice as costly pivot , which while had way more bling in the form of carbon etc didn't somehow feel as well or was it the price .. hmmm. I've already had the shaky batt w0 13 requiring tightening the batt mount but that is fixed and I imagine it could happen on an internally mounted batt also but with possibly much greater misery. I would have liked such novelties as a water bottle cage or the ability to stack so I could have a second battery and not need to carry a pack weight equivalent to an army ranger. I always remove my batt for charging after near every ride especially when camping because. It's near impossible to haul my bike up into my lifted f250 ( I had to to clear some roads with my rig set up)
If I buy another ebike they probably will by then all have integrated Batts but I will never buy one that isn't a batt that u can directly buy from the motor manufacturer ( example Shimano) because in five years when u call your internet bike comp after the next recession the answer might be ( we are sorry this number has been disconnected ) .
If I buy another ebike they probably will by then all have integrated Batts but I will never buy one that isn't a batt that u can directly buy from the motor manufacturer ( example Shimano) because in five years when u call your internet bike comp after the next recession the answer might be ( we are sorry this number has been disconnected ) .
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
Camelbak
Hexus 18 multi-tool
Gerber Multipliers
Mini-pump with 2m of gaffer tape around the handle
Spare tube
Topeak D2 digital pressure gauge
Tyre levers
Tyrewall patches
Tube patches
Assorted zipties
Folding saw
Small cable lock, one metre of wire
£10 in an envelope
400mg Brufen painkillers
Spare mech hanger
One set spare brake pads
One 11-speed multi-link
Six links of 11-speed chain
Three small chocolate-covered flapjacks
Two litres of water in a bladder.
From time to time, spare gloves, waterproof jacket, sleeveless windproof (not at same time)
My mobile and car keys
Out of that little lot, the only item I have never used is the spare mech hanger. The least used after that is the cable lock.
I never used to carry any of that lot, I used to ride out with just a water bottle. But as shit happened and I discovered that I needed to carry a spare tube, tyre levers and a pump, then tools, and so forth, the items slowly started to grow. I spend quite a bit of time in the woods off-piste and I need the saw to keep the trails open. I'm not hacking away at any upright tree I see, just cutting up trees that have fallen across the trail, or clearing brambles and nettles.
I used to carry all that
Addressed to Jimmy'll fix it?
2kg of your pack weight being water makes a little more sense of the weight but still sounds bloody heavy to ride in
I tend to notice trails needing work as I ride too but clear stuff etc. without tools and go back later with tools if needed.
sort of hate the term "off-piste". it makes no sense in scotland unless you're at a trail centre talking about a more hidden away natural trail.. even then I still find the term a bit cringe. Loads of mtb/cyling terminology is tho
Cyclopath1000
Active member
Hmm I carry tube , NOAA beacon , water ,two air pumps, collection of small parts like mult hangars for my multiple bikes ,cable , a small speedo.if a lake on the way , Shimano key t25 and.set of park hex wrenches , park small.chain tool, near spray, the pusher to reconnect a Shimano e bike wire ( don't try this without one )gigantic knife (probably not going to help me vs anything on four legs ) sandwich often , something to blow smoke.rings with for rescue , if I was serious about this I would bring a complete deraillier and chain. Key is to not carry too much water. Just enough to survive.
Chainsaw. Winch . Extraction rope. Extendable stretcher . Emergency Drone. Cones . 2 Warning Triangles. Spare cranks. Three spare telescoping wheels. Inflatable emergency frame. Picnic set. Mobile triage centre. Toilet paper . Parachute. 2 matches. Spare chain for bike and chainsaw. Shackles. Zoro Mask. Spare tyre. Deep cycle leisure battery . Compact Generator. Small patch kit. Portable Tig welder. Tooth pick. Blasting caps. 15cm duct tape. 4 compact site work lamps. 6m*6m tarpaulin. Bone saw. Sterilised hand wipes. Beach towel. 4 Zip ties.
Sorry - like Lycra - Speedo’s especially small ones, budgie smugglers, mankini’s and merkins have all been banned by Rob & the E*POWAH elite style council - there are obviously no Australians or Frenchmen on that council. Any more mention & you’ll be subjected to extreme ridicule and further unspecified bollocking.
Actually not a bad idea as long as there's nobody else at the lake but Patagonia Hydroflow roll up pretty well & weigh little more than 100 grams...just an idea.
Last edited:
GrandPaBrogan
⚡ eGeezer ⚡
You forgot your rubber duckie. How else are you going to inflate your inflatable spare frame?
They're pretty handy too as an emergency shock pump...
You are absolutely correct, but it's actually an inflatable breast. I've always found it calming to hold in times of crisis.
GrandPaBrogan
⚡ eGeezer ⚡
Regardless of overall weight, weight placement is the most critical element of EMTB design, as this is what effects the riding characteristics, the suspensions performance, and handling of the bike.
Too many EMTB's have sacrificed this at the alter of designers trying to make the bikes look like normal bikes, which is a waste of time IMO as no EMTB looks anything like a normal bike.
Putting a load of weight further up the down tube is about the most stupid thing you can do on any bike, it makes it harder to pop up, flop into turns, and makes the front suspension behave like it shouldn't, particularly in terms of diving into the mid stroke too quickly.
In many frame designs, it also means the head tube grows to accommodate the fisted downtube, meaning compromises have to be made that knock on to other areas of frame design.Look at the new Meridas for example, and how high the top of the head tube is as a result of the frame design, meaning its harder to weight the front end when riding.
In an ideal world you want all the weight on the bike as low down and centralised as possible, and that includes the suspension components.
On my E-Sommett for example all the weight is below the half way point of the downtube, which is one of the main reasons it rides so well, whereas take the Mondraker Level for example, and see where the weight is.
Only Specilized and Whyte have really though about this with integrated batteries, but tilting the motors and allowing the bottom of the batteries to sit in front of the motors and as low as possible, but even then due to the extra length of the batteries compared to the external ones the weight still sits higher up than ideal.
All I care about is how the bike rides, not how it looks, seems silly to spend 5k on something that is better to look at than ride to me.
Too many EMTB's have sacrificed this at the alter of designers trying to make the bikes look like normal bikes, which is a waste of time IMO as no EMTB looks anything like a normal bike.
Putting a load of weight further up the down tube is about the most stupid thing you can do on any bike, it makes it harder to pop up, flop into turns, and makes the front suspension behave like it shouldn't, particularly in terms of diving into the mid stroke too quickly.
In many frame designs, it also means the head tube grows to accommodate the fisted downtube, meaning compromises have to be made that knock on to other areas of frame design.Look at the new Meridas for example, and how high the top of the head tube is as a result of the frame design, meaning its harder to weight the front end when riding.
In an ideal world you want all the weight on the bike as low down and centralised as possible, and that includes the suspension components.
On my E-Sommett for example all the weight is below the half way point of the downtube, which is one of the main reasons it rides so well, whereas take the Mondraker Level for example, and see where the weight is.
Only Specilized and Whyte have really though about this with integrated batteries, but tilting the motors and allowing the bottom of the batteries to sit in front of the motors and as low as possible, but even then due to the extra length of the batteries compared to the external ones the weight still sits higher up than ideal.
All I care about is how the bike rides, not how it looks, seems silly to spend 5k on something that is better to look at than ride to me.
Vitus did do a good job with placement. It's amazing how many E8000 bikes have the battery mounted halfway up the tube for no apparent reason.
An ebike will never handle like pedal powered bike. It’s a new era of cycling and one should just enjoy the ebike for what it is.
I agree, its not about handling like a normal bike, they won't, its about having a good handling EMTB, and as lots of us have found the extra weight (within reason) isn't necessarily a bad thing if its been though about in the design process as to be made use of rather than to be mitigated.
Whyte are the best example of going with the weight and making use of it in a beneficial way that I have tried of the latest crop of bikes
Whyte are the best example of going with the weight and making use of it in a beneficial way that I have tried of the latest crop of bikes
Fair enough, I’m obviously not as in tune with the subtle differences you and a lot of others talk about.
I can barely tell the difference between suspension settings let alone weight/balance differences.
Maybe it’s my heavy pack that’s throws me off.
I can barely tell the difference between suspension settings let alone weight/balance differences.
Maybe it’s my heavy pack that’s throws me off.
I think the problem is (and same with normal bikes) very few of us have the opportunity to try multiple bikes, with different motors and batteries, aside form all the different geometry and wheels sizes combos. Even if you do get to try a few, testing them for long enough on familiar terrain is going to be even harder to do.
There is no one bike that is better than everything else fro everyone out there.
There is no one bike that is better than everything else fro everyone out there.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
What the hell do you need a Zorro mask for?
Now go back a few years, if any anyone of the current ebikes was the only one available I bet it would be the best thing ever.
A Couple times I was without bike so I grabbed what ever I could. Yes it wasn’t as good as my own but I still loved every minute of it. Anything not to pedal under my own power for me.
I do understand what your saying though.
I personally found my wonder woman costume too compromising
Hey. i have my own zorro mask too. and the cape and the sword and the hat
[Truestory]
[Truestory]
Alan wolfe
Member
Integrated all way for me just look better plus think little less cleaning on bike.but each to his own
Here's a comparison between Shimano 500Wh integrated vs external. It's not much of a difference in how high the weight is sitting. The internal design doesn't look any worse.
Regarding the tall front end. I too assumed it was taller than ideal and it was a result of a compromise. But I'm not so sure any more, it seems there is room for a ower front end on the frame. The guys developing the bike at Merida said they wanted the front end tall to make it better suited for descending, making it easier lifting the front wheel on the descents. Fabien Barell has said in an EMBN episode that he is lifting the handlebars on his Spectral
n to make it a better descender.Having ridden the new eOne-Sixty on familiar trails, I believe they're right. I noticed the tall front end at the release event, but not any more. I guess it was down to fork tuning and the really loose trail surface.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
Err, I'm a bit embarrassed about this. I meant pounds not kilos!
I clearly remembering weighting my backpack and seeing the number 7. But that was quite a while ago and I mis-remembered it as kilos. I have just got my pack ready for tomorrow and it weighs 8.5lbs or just under 4kg. I have a bit less water in the bladder than usual as it will be a shorter ride and it's a lot cooler, so only 1 litre instead of 2. It still has all the rest of my
No Zorro mask though.
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
Yes external batteries are 'convenient' - however from a purely design point of view internal looks nicer IMHO. However, when it comes to engineering, having a tube that does not have bits cut out to allow a battery to be partially hidden it will be stronger for a given weight. I think Speshy has done a reasonable job and swapping batteries only takes a minute or so to drop the old one and fit a replacement. I forking HATE the lock system on my Scott.
To have 2 smaller internal batteries as @Eddy Current showed in one of his masterpieces. I would however want to run numbers as to size vs output - 2x 400Wh or similar with a nice round profile would possibly work. However, it would be a design with a bottle cage INSIDE the frame triangle .... those on the front of the main tube are forking useless.
About @steve_sordy and his backpack .... da-aum. Did a 7 hour ride the other day and went out with 2 bottles - 1 in the rack and 1 in my shirt pocket.
Not a backpack wearer as they just make me overheat and dynamically, I carry enough weight myself without carrying more up high on my back. Saturdays ride had a small seat pack with a gas bottle, some self adhesive patches, chain tool with a couple spare missing links, a roll of electrical tape and a few zip ties. Taped to the frame was a spare tube wrapped in a section of an old one to make a big patch if I ripped a sidewall.
On a similar ride I crashed hard breaking my bars - was able to ride 60km with the broken bars to finish the ride.
To have 2 smaller internal batteries as @Eddy Current showed in one of his masterpieces. I would however want to run numbers as to size vs output - 2x 400Wh or similar with a nice round profile would possibly work. However, it would be a design with a bottle cage INSIDE the frame triangle .... those on the front of the main tube are forking useless.
About @steve_sordy and his backpack .... da-aum. Did a 7 hour ride the other day and went out with 2 bottles - 1 in the rack and 1 in my shirt pocket.
Not a backpack wearer as they just make me overheat and dynamically, I carry enough weight myself without carrying more up high on my back. Saturdays ride had a small seat pack with a gas bottle, some self adhesive patches, chain tool with a couple spare missing links, a roll of electrical tape and a few zip ties. Taped to the frame was a spare tube wrapped in a section of an old one to make a big patch if I ripped a sidewall.
On a similar ride I crashed hard breaking my bars - was able to ride 60km with the broken bars to finish the ride.
That handle bar repair job is awesome!
How lucky was it that he found an old handlebar to fasten to the rustic wooden one he broke.
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