Smart thinkingI got a a Ghost eMTB with a 29 front and 27.5 rear a few weeks ago to make sure I covered both basis
I say no to 29ers that turn ebikes in a mainstream product.
Because...
... a 29er is way more railed than a 27.5
... and a 455 is way more stable than 440 etc etc
ebikes are getting
... easier,
... safer
... not faster
...or funnier
Have you tried cauliflower? That's allegedly an amazing popcorn substitute!I've run out of pop corn...
.
Mainstream = bad? That is a philosophy of "pioneer exceptionalism". e.g. "You're only a proper EMTBer if you got an early one before the bugs were ironed out and they all began to look like Treks. BORING!!!"
Those are contributory factors in an entire package of geometry. You keep isolating single parameters and extrapolating general conclusions. That's why your argument is a dead duck. You seem to imagine a single way of riding that is *proper* and an ideal ebike specification to facilitate *proper riding* by *proper riders*. That is the philosophy of exceptionalism again. The truth is that ebikes offered on the market promise a range of capability and riding styles (most importantly, colours) for a range of riders - big ones, small ones, park rats, back countryists, pootlers, weekend warriors, enduro wannabes... It is a burgeoning market and, yes, marketing will take place.
That's a bad thing? Oh, I get it. Exceptionalism again. ebikes *must* be difficult and unsafe to ride otherwise they're not proper ebikes.
Is this a race? If racing, is it really true that racers do not prefer 29ers? Some do? Some don't? If not a race, maybe you're making a "weight" point.
Statement: 29ers will have some components carry more weight than 27.5er equivalents.
Q: How much?
A: It is a linear relationship.
e,g, Taking ETRTO as the measure, the difference between 584 and 622 is 6.5%. We can imagine 6.5% more weight for tyre. 6.5 % more weight for rim. 6.5% more weight for spokes. That will be a slightly flexier wheel. To counter that you might build your wheels with 4 extra spokes per wheel at which point the wheel will be stiffer at a further ~12-13% increase in spoke weight. So 6.5% for tyre. 6.5% for rim, 20% for spokes. 2kg tyres get 130g heavier. 1.2kg rims get 78g heavier. 400g of spokes get 80g heavier (20%). That is the total. ~288g. If you're coping with flexier wheels (with the same spoke count) it would be ~234g.
Now where I think it gets interesting is when you take into account the trend we've seen where 27.5ers have been specced with bigger tyres (even plus sizes) to make up for not gripping as well as 29ers (you used the word "rails"). And those bigger tyres are... heavy, flexy and imprecise. For a certain type of rider it is quite possible for 29ers to be lighter, stiffer, grippier and better suited to a particular riding style through choice of tyre (and maybe spoke count).
So the weight argument is moot. It remains a parameter that cannot be taken out of context of the whole ebike specification. Once again, the market exists and the market is served. Marketing will be a factor.
I kinda get your point on integrated batteries. We do seem to be seeing many brands (not all) pick up a weight gain when they've gone integrated. We also see a three way battle between : 1. designs that facilitate battery removal (off-bike charging); 2. designs that look sleek; and 3. designs that don't need extra structural material (fixed battery). If you have electric power in your shed/garage, off-bike charging won't be an issue. If you do need a removable battery it might be a feature that costs some weight gain or a less sleek (non-integrated) look. If you session laps and want to swap batteries, it is a different need to someone seeking the longest range on a single fitted battery with the lowest whole system weight. Again, the variations in the market exist. The market is served. Marketing will be involved.
Side note:
I find the rush to carbon construction at the top end to be a disappointment. The weight saving is deeply in the realm of diminishing returns. ebikes have the opposite of a proven track record for long service life. The wear and tear and onset of reliability/maintenance issues means that ebikes transition rapidly from factory to landfill. Maybe the economics will level out but for now a carbon ebike is essentially a disposable item with a large environmental impact.
If that is a chainstay point, I'll refer you to my previous answer. The whole package is important.
We have seen the broader MTB concerns of long/low/slack geometry transition over to eMTBs in the current generation. eMTB has become more acceptable to a broader swathe of the existing population of analog MTBers. There may well be a shift in the eMTB riding demographic. Different riders seeking different things from their rides. Variations in the market exist. The market is served. Marketing will be involved.
The marketers are going to just love this thread and will dine out on it for many years to come.
Get ready for the new standard of 28.25 inches coming to your local bike store very soon ?
A bike doesn’t have to be boring because it’s 29er or it weights 23kgs but if it’s proper designed it’s going to be even funnier and probably fast with 27.5 and 20nkgs
Opinion is not fact. What works for one person, will not work for every person.
If you find what works for you great, but don’t state your experience and anecdotal evidence as the way they things should be for everyone else.
Pick a wheel size and go on with your life.
You could get whipped with stretched chain for saying that in the new world orderI was hoping with your new persona, Al Burtoneta, we'd be getting a few more Burt quotes mixed in .. like :
Marriage is about the most expensive way for the average man to get his laundry done.
True.. please insert person or thing, instead of man.You could get whipped with stretched chain for saying that in the new world order
That’s the best laugh ever!
Yawn ?Hey you stubborn sons of the perfide Albion ... im back. Iiiiiiih ihihihiii ... ay!
Do you remember the Pivot Shuttle? For many the best ebike.
Conclusion (2018)
The Pivot Shuttle has proven to be a successful foray into the eMTB segment for the American brand. They’ve created a bike for riders who are primarily looking to have a lot of fun on the downhills, excelling there with its simultaneously playful and composed handling. Details such as the overly complicated battery integration and small weaknesses in the spec, however, cloud the otherwise positive impression. The price is hefty, of course, though it promises exclusivity.
Pivot Shuttle Review | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine
Guess what they do for the 2020? Aaaaajajaja ... ay!
And the same web that rated the best handling machine a year ago is now a crap with (29) wheels .... ahahahahaaaaah ... ay! And they made it more comfy with shorter reach and higher stack aahahahahaha ihhhhhiiiiii ... ay!
Conclusion (2019)
The name of the Shuttle promises more than the bike can deliver: it’s nerve-racking on steep descents and isn’t composed to enough for rough terrain and big hits when compared to the best bikes in the test field. This is surprising since Pivot are known for their awesome enduro, freeride and DH bikes. As well as that, the battery concept is now outdated, which given the € 10,499 price tag is no longer justifiable. If you’re looking for a lightweight and comfortable eMTB for flow trails and more moderate climbs and descents, you will find the Pivot an expensive but well-suited companion.
Pivot Shuttle 29 Team XTR in Review | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine
26", 27.5", or 29" - it doesn't matter what your preference is.
ummm - looks like they forgot the motor ...............this is a 29er, it is utterly and completely lust worthy
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