Is the orbea Rise suspension progressive?

[MTB_MIKE]

That’s the direction I went.

Gutch, any word on how the bike rides with your DHX2?

 

[Gutch]

Mine rides fine with the Marzochi CR shock.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Mine rides fine with the Marzochi CR shock.

Clevis mounts don’t play nice with some shocks. How does it feel on bigger jumps or drops?

 

[Gutch]

Just fine on my 20’ drops and 50’ triples!

 

[Gutch]

Btw, I’m Kidding. My previous bike was a Decoy Pro Race with a coil.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

I have a Decoy as well. Full coil, 180mm fork on the Decoy and 54lbs with pedals . I am wondering if the Rise with a 160mm rear end and 160/170 fork can replace the Decoy

 

[jimsantos]

Have you thought about the effects a longer shock will have on anti squat? The rise has quite a bit at sag already (115% I have read), dropping the rear axle with a smaller wheel and extending the start of the travel could make the suspension terrible at the early to mid stroke. It would be interesting to see an anti squat graph before making that change.

I hadn't considered the effects on anti-squat actually! Do you know if the smaller wheel and longer travel will increase the anti-squat or decrease it? EDIT: Did my own research and it seems it’ll increase AS, but not dramatically. E bikes can tolerate higher AS levels than analog IMO so I should be fine. The worst effect will potentially be bobbing ABOVE sag point when I put power down.

As for coil shock selection, I got into an Instagram thread with the owner of Biker's Edge in Utah, @utzach, who ran a DHX2 for a bit on his Rise, but it had too much play to feel safe with the clevis setup. The DHX2 shaft is super thin compared to other coil shocks and it seems the shock has very little bushing overlap. The Marzzochi CR and Fox Van are much thicker. Zach eventually went with the Rockshox Super Deluxe and said it has more bushing overlap aka it's more stable-bodied shock.

There's some good info in various Levo threads actually, since it uses a clevis/yoke as well.

Final note is that I’m most likely gonna run it 160 front/rear with 29er wheels, which should keep HT/ST at 65.5/76.5, and bb about 11.5mm higher, or pretty much on par with a Transition Sentinel (346mm). Run a touch more sag on the Orbea and it should still feel pretty dialed!

 

[MTB_MIKE]

I hadn't considered the effects on anti-squat actually! Do you know if the smaller wheel and longer travel will increase the anti-squat or decrease it?

I think it would be fine with a little more AS, but I wouldn't want much less.

As for coil shock selection, I got into an Instagram thread with the owner of Biker's Edge in Utah, @utzach, who ran a DHX2 for a bit on his Rise, but it had too much play to feel safe with the clevis setup. The DHX2 shaft is super thin compared to other coil shocks and it seems the shock has very little bushing overlap. The Marzzochi CR and Fox Van are much thicker. Zach eventually went with the Rockshox Super Deluxe and said it has more bushing overlap aka it's more stable-bodied shock.

There's some good info in various Levo threads actually, since it uses a clevis/yoke as well.

I saw that IG post. Funny thing is there are 2-3 others on a DHX2 that have not noticed any bushing/shaft issues so he could just have a bad shock. Fox QC is complete shit on their 2021 X2/DHX2 shocks. I ride with 3-4 guys who all have problems and have sent their shocks in for warranty work

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Have you thought about the effects a longer shock will have on anti squat? The rise has quite a bit at sag already (115% I have read), dropping the rear axle with a smaller wheel and extending the start of the travel could make the suspension terrible at the early to mid stroke. It would be interesting to see an anti squat graph before making that change.

I am looking at the anti squat figures for the Occam with a 32T/50T configuration. It is 104% at 25% sag. With the Rise and 160mm of travel, you are at 108-109%. A 34t chainring would help reduce this greatly but it shouldn’t be a big deal. If you look at these figures on other bikes, it’s pretty similar

 

[PhilS]

I am looking at the anti squat figures for the Occam with a 32T/50T configuration. It is 104% at 25% sag. With the Rise and 160mm of travel, you are at 108-109%. A 34t chainring would help reduce this greatly but it shouldn’t be a big deal. If you look at these figures on other bikes, it’s pretty similar

The only available figures for the Rise are 115% at sag point (assume 30%). Extending the shock to add ~20mm additional travel at the start of the travel is going to bump this up to around 120%. Dropping the rear axle by adding a smaller back wheel is going to effectively raise the main pivot, increasing anti squat further still.

I'm not saying it won't work, i'd love to try it, but you just need to be careful you don't lose the benefits of the light and agile bike with a heavy coil, then also lose the benefits of a coil by making the suspension harsh through anti-squat. A 34 or 36t chainring could possibly be one of the best upgrades for the rear suspension, and the cheapest.

 

[jimsantos]

The only available figures for the Rise are 115% at sag point (assume 30%). Extending the shock to add ~20mm additional travel at the start of the travel is going to bump this up to around 120%. Dropping the rear axle by adding a smaller back wheel is going to effectively raise the main pivot, increasing anti squat further still.

I'm not saying it won't work, i'd love to try it, but you just need to be careful you don't lose the benefits of the light and agile bike with a heavy coil, then also lose the benefits of a coil by making the suspension harsh through anti-squat. A 34 or 36t chainring could possibly be one of the best upgrades for the rear suspension, and the cheapest.

Thanks for the AS analysis! Never even thought about the chainring swap. I’ll look into it!

Received the Fox Van shock today and it feels super solid.

I also realized that with 29% of the travel increase at the end stroke,I should expect a tad more progression as well!

So far it’s looking like 160/160 on 29s, little more sag to drop BB, and 34T ring to compensate on AS a bit.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Jimsantos, if you run this full 29er setup. Can you check to see if you can run some offset bushings to get the shock from 216 to 213x63?

www.offsetbushings.com

 

[jimsantos]

Jimsantos, if you run this full 29er setup. Can you check to see if you can run some offset bushings to get the shock from 216 to 213x63?

www.offsetbushings.com

Yeah I’ll check clearance at the end stroke when my Rise arrives. Keeps getting pushed back, April now. Had a chance to snag an alternate color (dark blue) but wanted to hold out for white/green. Kicking myself now that my preferred colorway got delayed...

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Mine is delayed as well from Jensons. Was supposed to be Mar 1st. No ETA yet. I can’t commit on a wheelset until I know if I’ll be running 29er or 27.5. Bummer yours is delayed also

 

[Endoguru]

I’m waiting for my M10 to show up. A slightly longer shock and 160 fork is what I’m interested in. The discussion about why would you do this, this is not what this bike is for is very interesting. I have a Decoy Pro that is great in big steep mountains but 51 pounds is still a lot of weight. The Rise with a little more travel and a 65 degree head angle at 10 pounds less would be the perfect all a rounder for how I like to ride. The Decoy requires a lot of effort to get in the air on smaller jumps. I would love to here anyone’s opinion on how the bike actually handles (both the positives and negatives) with a slightly longer shock and 160 fork.

 

[Gutch]

My 2021 M10 is listed for sale in the classifieds. Great bike, just going to get a Bullit.

 

[brewoz40]

I definitely can't wait to hear some ride reports from people making these changes. These changes will definitely change the reach on the bike big time! Raising the front and dropping the back for the sake of keeping the bb the same is seriously going to shorten the reach. These changes are huge, over forking/stroke change by this much is actually equal to a lot of change and adding in mullet setup. I hope you sized up! Otherwise its going to be so cramped and out of balance, the reach is going to be so SHORT with these changes if you didn't. I don't know, basically completely redesigning the bike in essence, just wander if it's worth it and how its going to ride over the stock config. I'm all about customizing and even over forking/increasing stroke length within reason, just dont know if this is actually going to make it a better ride or not redesigning the bike, as that's what these changes are doing. Just because it's possible doesn't mean you should. Only one way to find out I guess.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Half a Degree equals approximately 5mm of reach. I got this number from Bikes that have flip chips that slacken/steepen the HT by half a degree. BB's tend to drop 5-7mm when you flip the chip. Running a 160 fork in combination with a larger 2.5/2.6" front tire will definitely set the reach back another 5-10mm. Not sure what the stock stem length is (I think it's 40 or 45mm) but you can get it back pretty easily if you need those 5-10mm back.

 

[jimsantos]

My latest hypothetical iteration is:
- 29 wheels
- 160 fork
- 8.5”x2.5” shock for 161.6mm travel
- 34t ring to keep AS close to stock

This raises the front 10mm and the rear 14mm, so the BB goes up ~12mm to 348mm. This is only 2mm higher than a Transition Sentinel for reference, and the Sentinel has less travel out back. Run a touch more sag to drop the BB and you really won’t be upsetting the geo too much.

Reach actually gets a tad longer @ static since you’re steepening by 0.25 deg or so. Probably imperceptible. That said, depending on your suspension setup you can achieve very close to stock geo.

 

[Bigtuna00]

There's some good info in various Levo threads actually, since it uses a clevis/yoke as well.

Might be of use:

Levo Gen 2 - Which Coil Shocks Are Supported on Turbo Levo?

Many coil shocks are failing or wearing prematurely on Levo and Levo SL. Several manufacturers no longer recommend their coil shocks for Levo (Fox being one of them; official statement from Fox; note this includes Marzocchi; note this is still true for the new DHX with 14mm shaft). Meanwhile...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[DanMcDan]

Just for info, am running a Monarch Plus RC3 @ 210x60 on my M20 rise that I had left over from and old 2016 Trek Slash, fits perfectly and have no issues with the back wheel buzzing either the frame or seat (am on a med) just looking at what other options there are at 210x60 and it seems not a lot

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Here’s my Review of the Mullet Rise

 

[Bigtuna00]

Did you validate that the shock is ok following Information on

 

[jimsantos]

Looks about perfect to me! Let us know how that DHX2 holds up over time.

All my parts to swap have arrived, just waiting on the bike now. Ship date is now 4/19... plus customs... other holds. gahhhh!

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Did you validate that the shock is ok following Information on

I’ll check when I get home. It looks like it’s fine if you run a 55mm stroke shock but is cutting it close for a 60/63mm stroke shock. The bulletin is saying further investigation is needed if you go longer than

Did you validate that the shock is ok following Information on

About 69-70mm which is just below the maximum 72mm allowed by Fox for a 65mm stroke shock. On a 63 stroke, it would be about 75-80mm allowed so it’s more than good

 

[kragu]

I don't see why there is resistance to the Rise being built up as an aggressive trail bike and adding a bit of extra weight to it to handle more aggressive riding styles or suspension preferences.

Orbea themselves have two different types of builds, one with a Fox 34 and a beefier one with a Fox 36.

I currently have a Decoy 29 with 145 rear. That bike can handle anything I throw at it on my local trails. The appeal of the rise isn't becoming a weight weenie and riding it like a cross country bike. It is dropping 10lbs off my current bike, with a similar rise build (bump the fork to 160mm), and still having an aggressive trail bike build that you can push hard and enjoy on trails where you may not need 170+mm of travel. The bonus being that it handles more like your normal trail bike AND has a powerful motor.

There are plenty of riders pushing analog 140mm/150mm trail bikes hard. You'll even see bikes in that category pop into an enduro race now and then.

There seems to be a weird trend with rise riders obsessing over one or two pounds which is not significant enough to matter on an ebike. And let's keep in mind the other options are still +-10lbs heaver than this thing, so there still aren't any other bikes for aggressive riders who want a powerful motor and light bike.

The market segment between a levo sl and a 53lb 170mm ebike still hasn't been cracked open. 150mm rear + 160mm front, full power, around 43lbs is the holy grail IMO. Orbea has gotten fairly close with this one. Might be a few years till we fully get there.

I know it’s been a while but this post is super spot on.

 

[Vinz113]

[QUOTE = "MTB_MIKE, message: 285346, membre: 7262"]
Voici mon avis sur la montée du mulet

[MEDIA = youtube] aaYi_N7AYB0 [/ MEDIA]
[/CITATION]

SAlut après plusieurs ride, quel est ton retour avec ton montage.. je suis dans la même optique que toi. mais partagé entre le coil ou air... merci de ton retour.

 

[Endoguru]

I don't see why there is resistance to the Rise being built up as an aggressive trail bike and adding a bit of extra weight to it to handle more aggressive riding styles or suspension preferences.

Orbea themselves have two different types of builds, one with a Fox 34 and a beefier one with a Fox 36.

I currently have a Decoy 29 with 145 rear. That bike can handle anything I throw at it on my local trails. The appeal of the rise isn't becoming a weight weenie and riding it like a cross country bike. It is dropping 10lbs off my current bike, with a similar rise build (bump the fork to 160mm), and still having an aggressive trail bike build that you can push hard and enjoy on trails where you may not need 170+mm of travel. The bonus being that it handles more like your normal trail bike AND has a powerful motor.

There are plenty of riders pushing analog 140mm/150mm trail bikes hard. You'll even see bikes in that category pop into an enduro race now and then.

There seems to be a weird trend with rise riders obsessing over one or two pounds which is not significant enough to matter on an ebike. And let's keep in mind the other options are still +-10lbs heaver than this thing, so there still aren't any other bikes for aggressive riders who want a powerful motor and light bike.

The market segment between a levo sl and a 53lb 170mm ebike still hasn't been cracked open. 150mm rear + 160mm front, full power, around 43lbs is the holy grail IMO. Orbea has gotten fairly close with this one. Might be a few years till we fully get there.

Couldn’t agree more!

 

[Endoguru]

View attachment 49506

I’m wanting to do this to my arise. What is your opinion of how it rides? Is it the stock length or did you long shock it?

 

[Gutch]

When I owned my Rise, it was stock shock length. The bike rode fine, I just wanted my 85nm back!