Dewez
New Member
To reduce noise I installed the Planetary Gear with magnet against the Ring Gear. The smooth magnet eliminated all noise. Road 10 miles with dirt hills and streets with a smile on my face.
I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase
- Thread starter jd_3d
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #272
Hi @Dewez, glad it's working good for you! Yeah, the planetary gear can be mounted either way, good to know it's less noisy with the magnet facing inwards (I was going to try that but never got around to it). Regarding removal, it's pretty much the reverse of the installation. If the sun gear is tight on the hub use 2 butter knives to slide in the gap between the sun gear and ring gear and use them to gently pull it off the hub. That's the technique I used and its quick.
- Thread starter
- #273
I crossed the 500 mile mark today on the LSS, and it's been flawless so far. A quick calculation puts that at around 500,000 rotations of the planet gear 
. Anyone have some serious mileage on theirs?
. Anyone have some serious mileage on theirs?
hello classmates, I am very interested in buying one. I have my levo 2019 since January and I am afraid of losing the guarantee. Is there a high possibility that the software detects the circumference of the magnet and cancels the warranty?
Thanks for your daily effort
Thanks for your daily effort
we will know when a LSS user has made a warranty claim
for my part I made the choice to drive beyond 25 km / h anyway
- Thread starter
- #276
@tomiki question prompted me to put down some of my thoughts regarding assist speed limits, warranties, and morality. This post got really long (sorry!), so I suggest getting a cup of tea first
When choosing to modify your bike to increase the assist speed it raises 2 issues:
Violating the regional / local electric bike assist speed laws
This is very difficult to talk about in broad terms as each region has vastly different laws, and it's important to note many countries have no limits at all. In addition there is nothing wrong with riding your bike at any speed on private property. Suffice it to say, choosing to break any local laws can have consequences and I would say it is similar to choosing to drive above the speed limit in your car.
Modifying your bike results in a voiding of your warranty
This is what I wanted to talk about in more depth as I feel I haven't yet addressed it in this thread. Here's a question: Is it moral to modify your bike so that it can assist above the factory speed limit, and then remove that device if you have a warranty claim? Some may say that is immoral or down right shady, but I think it's the complete opposite. In my opinion, a general "warranty voiding" for speed modifications is the immoral rule here. In fact, here in the USA, people are standing up to companies putting those 'warranty void if removed stickers" and even the government agrees that those stickers are bullshit (see here: FTC Says 'Warranty Void If Removed' Stickers Are Bullshit, Warns Manufacturers They're Breaking the Law.). People want to modify and repair their products and need to stand up to companies that make it hard to do so.
For a mid-drive system like the Turbo Levo, the speed of the bike does not cause accelerated wear of the motor/gearbox/battery. In fact, the hardest thing you can do to your bike is ride up a really steep hill in turbo mode (that will stress the motor/drivetrain/battery the most), but it's a MOUNTAIN BIKE it's literally made to climb mountains. So riding at high speeds on the flat ground is actually an easier load scenario than hill climbing at slower speeds because on flat ground you will have additional air cooling. But besides all of that is the fact that the bike has multiple safe-guards in place to avoid overheating the motor/esc/battery and will reduce power to ensure safe operating limits of the powertrain.
Compare this to two other industries: Automotive and Gaming PCs. For the last 20 years I've modified all my cars (Honda, Toyota, Acura, Subaru) with things such as intakes (which affect air/fuel ratio), exhausts, ride-height adjustments, etc. I've never had trouble with warranties despite leaving all these modifications on the car. Second, think about a gaming PC. Manufactures know gamers will overclock their rigs and these days they actively encourage that and include overclocking software on systems. The chips have safeguards in place to prevent over-heating much the same way e-bikes have safeguards.
So, let's say you have a wiring issue where the bike is disconnecting randomly (probably the most likely failure scenario for these Levos), is Specialized really not going to fix that because you've modified the magnet to make it assist faster? If they are actively trying to avoid fixing people's bikes instead of trying to keep satisfied customers I think in the long run that will hurt their business.
To answer @tomiki's question, I'd say the possibility that the software could detect the presence of an LSS being installed is very low. As an engineer I can't think of an easy way to detect it without getting many false-positives in valid usage scenarios. Unless they have some hidden GPS or secondary speed measurement device it would be hard to detect (and as far as I know there are no secondary speed sensors on the bike).
When choosing to modify your bike to increase the assist speed it raises 2 issues:
Violating the regional / local electric bike assist speed laws
This is very difficult to talk about in broad terms as each region has vastly different laws, and it's important to note many countries have no limits at all. In addition there is nothing wrong with riding your bike at any speed on private property. Suffice it to say, choosing to break any local laws can have consequences and I would say it is similar to choosing to drive above the speed limit in your car.
Modifying your bike results in a voiding of your warranty
This is what I wanted to talk about in more depth as I feel I haven't yet addressed it in this thread. Here's a question: Is it moral to modify your bike so that it can assist above the factory speed limit, and then remove that device if you have a warranty claim? Some may say that is immoral or down right shady, but I think it's the complete opposite. In my opinion, a general "warranty voiding" for speed modifications is the immoral rule here. In fact, here in the USA, people are standing up to companies putting those 'warranty void if removed stickers" and even the government agrees that those stickers are bullshit (see here: FTC Says 'Warranty Void If Removed' Stickers Are Bullshit, Warns Manufacturers They're Breaking the Law.). People want to modify and repair their products and need to stand up to companies that make it hard to do so.
For a mid-drive system like the Turbo Levo, the speed of the bike does not cause accelerated wear of the motor/gearbox/battery. In fact, the hardest thing you can do to your bike is ride up a really steep hill in turbo mode (that will stress the motor/drivetrain/battery the most), but it's a MOUNTAIN BIKE it's literally made to climb mountains. So riding at high speeds on the flat ground is actually an easier load scenario than hill climbing at slower speeds because on flat ground you will have additional air cooling. But besides all of that is the fact that the bike has multiple safe-guards in place to avoid overheating the motor/esc/battery and will reduce power to ensure safe operating limits of the powertrain.
Compare this to two other industries: Automotive and Gaming PCs. For the last 20 years I've modified all my cars (Honda, Toyota, Acura, Subaru) with things such as intakes (which affect air/fuel ratio), exhausts, ride-height adjustments, etc. I've never had trouble with warranties despite leaving all these modifications on the car. Second, think about a gaming PC. Manufactures know gamers will overclock their rigs and these days they actively encourage that and include overclocking software on systems. The chips have safeguards in place to prevent over-heating much the same way e-bikes have safeguards.
So, let's say you have a wiring issue where the bike is disconnecting randomly (probably the most likely failure scenario for these Levos), is Specialized really not going to fix that because you've modified the magnet to make it assist faster? If they are actively trying to avoid fixing people's bikes instead of trying to keep satisfied customers I think in the long run that will hurt their business.
To answer @tomiki's question, I'd say the possibility that the software could detect the presence of an LSS being installed is very low. As an engineer I can't think of an easy way to detect it without getting many false-positives in valid usage scenarios. Unless they have some hidden GPS or secondary speed measurement device it would be hard to detect (and as far as I know there are no secondary speed sensors on the bike).
Just a heads up as there have been a few cases here where Specialized have refused warranty due to a mismatch between the odo meter and charge cycles. Apparently they have an algorithm to calculate if those 2 numbers compares. From my perspective it is Specialized that that have the responsibility to prove that you have done something wrong and I don’t think the above method will hold in court.@tomiki question prompted me to put down some of my thoughts regarding assist speed limits, warranties, and morality. This post got really long (sorry!), so I suggest getting a cup of tea first
When choosing to modify your bike to increase the assist speed it raises 2 issues:
Violating the regional / local electric bike assist speed laws
This is very difficult to talk about in broad terms as each region has vastly different laws, and it's important to note many countries have no limits at all. In addition there is nothing wrong with riding your bike at any speed on private property. Suffice it to say, choosing to break any local laws can have consequences and I would say it is similar to choosing to drive above the speed limit in your car.
Modifying your bike results in a voiding of your warranty
This is what I wanted to talk about in more depth as I feel I haven't yet addressed it in this thread. Here's a question: Is it moral to modify your bike so that it can assist above the factory speed limit, and then remove that device if you have a warranty claim? Some may say that is immoral or down right shady, but I think it's the complete opposite. In my opinion, a general "warranty voiding" for speed modifications is the immoral rule here. In fact, here in the USA, people are standing up to companies putting those 'warranty void if removed stickers" and even the government agrees that those stickers are bullshit (see here: FTC Says 'Warranty Void If Removed' Stickers Are Bullshit, Warns Manufacturers They're Breaking the Law.). People want to modify and repair their products and need to stand up to companies that make it hard to do so.
For a mid-drive system like the Turbo Levo, the speed of the bike does not cause accelerated wear of the motor/gearbox/battery. In fact, the hardest thing you can do to your bike is ride up a really steep hill in turbo mode (that will stress the motor/drivetrain/battery the most), but it's a MOUNTAIN BIKE it's literally made to climb mountains. So riding at high speeds on the flat ground is actually an easier load scenario than hill climbing at slower speeds because on flat ground you will have additional air cooling. But besides all of that is the fact that the bike has multiple safe-guards in place to avoid overheating the motor/esc/battery and will reduce power to ensure safe operating limits of the powertrain.
Compare this to two other industries: Automotive and Gaming PCs. For the last 20 years I've modified all my cars (Honda, Toyota, Acura, Subaru) with things such as intakes (which affect air/fuel ratio), exhausts, ride-height adjustments, etc. I've never had trouble with warranties despite leaving all these modifications on the car. Second, think about a gaming PC. Manufactures know gamers will overclock their rigs and these days they actively encourage that and include overclocking software on systems. The chips have safeguards in place to prevent over-heating much the same way e-bikes have safeguards.
So, let's say you have a wiring issue where the bike is disconnecting randomly (probably the most likely failure scenario for these Levos), is Specialized really not going to fix that because you've modified the magnet to make it assist faster? If they are actively trying to avoid fixing people's bikes instead of trying to keep satisfied customers I think in the long run that will hurt their business.
To answer @tomiki's question, I'd say the possibility that the software could detect the presence of an LSS being installed is very low. As an engineer I can't think of an easy way to detect it without getting many false-positives in valid usage scenarios. Unless they have some hidden GPS or secondary speed measurement device it would be hard to detect (and as far as I know there are no secondary speed sensors on the bike).
Karsten
xcentric
New Member
Whilst I'm sure you're reporting correctly, I find this very very hard to believe. It would suggest that the power used is going to take you the same distance, for all riders, which is clearly not the case. A 100kg rider powering up massively steep routes will use much more power/distance than a 60kg rider cruising along a fire road.
It's also questionable what you have actually modified. Not the speed sensor, not the magnet, not the software,. not the wheel circumference..... (this is a weaker argument, but not insubstantial - circumvention is not modification, necessarily).
Don’t fight me, I’m just the messenger - Members of this site have described it in other threads.
Karsten
- Thread starter
- #280
Interesting Karsten, thanks for the heads up. I did some searching on here but couldn't find the threads you referred to (if you have any links I'd be interested in reading them). I could see if there was a huge mis-match between mileage and charge cycles it could raise a red flag, but for the LSS it only modifies it by 50% which seems like a small amount compared to the variety of rider weight and terrain people ride. I could easily imagine a natural variation of 400% just based on rider weight and the types of trails people ride.
I cannot remember the exact thread but I recall that it was in relation to BLevo.
Karsten
AML
New Member
Late to the game as I am new here...awesome job
Not sure if it’s the same on the ‘19 but on the ‘18, battery cycles are shown in battery diags and distance is recorded in motor diags - so, a simple excuse for inconsistent charging cycles could be that you and friends all share batteries... (and therefore the cycles don’t necessarily relate to the distance covered by the motor)
Or you have a second battery?
Why it wouldn’t be linked also to battery serial number?
Nope... again different diag history for battery/motor
Inspired by this I've done a bot of research and found that the Shimano steps speed sensor is available with a longer cable - long enough to reach the rear hub. I have access to a laser cutter so I'm going to laser some pieces out of delrin once I've had a good measure up and worked out how to mount the sensor on my e-sommet
Will probably prototype in ply until I'm happy with the fit.
As using laser cutting necessitates working in 2d I will have to produce more separate parts and rely on glue and other joining methods to keep everything aligned but I think I can get something workable.
Will probably prototype in ply until I'm happy with the fit.
As using laser cutting necessitates working in 2d I will have to produce more separate parts and rely on glue and other joining methods to keep everything aligned but I think I can get something workable.
randycpu
Member
Inspired by this I've done a bot of research and found that the Shimano steps speed sensor is available with a longer cable - long enough to reach the rear hub. I have access to a laser cutter so I'm going to laser some pieces out of delrin once I've had a good measure up and worked out how to mount the sensor on my e-sommet
Will probably prototype in ply until I'm happy with the fit.
As using laser cutting necessitates working in 2d I will have to produce more separate parts and rely on glue and other joining methods to keep everything aligned but I think I can get something workable.
I'm sorry that I'm dense, but how does this help?
Is this for your Shimano STEPS equipped bike or a Levo?
How does the longer sensor cable help to reduce the perceived speed? Would you mount it near the crank instead of the hub?
Vilt
Active member
I think the default sensor for his bike is not near the hub. By moving the sensor near to the hub, a similar solution for Shimano as the LSS can be achieved. This is a requirement, otherwise the gears need to be as big as the wheels
Why dont you just get this - does the same thing and takes 30 seconds to fit, no opening of motor case etc. The whole reason for the Levo Mod is the positioning of the speed sensor makes the usual solutions difficult. I have one on my E-Sommett, that I use when hitting faster trails. You can take it off just as quickly as you can put it on.Inspired by this I've done a bot of research and found that the Shimano steps speed sensor is available with a longer cable - long enough to reach the rear hub. I have access to a laser cutter so I'm going to laser some pieces out of delrin once I've had a good measure up and worked out how to mount the sensor on my e-sommet
Will probably prototype in ply until I'm happy with the fit.
As using laser cutting necessitates working in 2d I will have to produce more separate parts and rely on glue and other joining methods to keep everything aligned but I think I can get something workable.
Badass eBikes tuning for Bosch Brose Conti Fazua Kalkhoff Panasonic Pendix Shimano Yamaha
Last edited:
OK so gear parts all mocked up in acrylic - loads of clearance on the e-sommet. The speed sensor cable is long enough to mount it near the rear hub already so no extra spend required there. - just need to commit to cutting the round mounting off it. I think I will mount it with a no nails type sticky pad and I'll probably chop up a bit of old inner tube to make a kind of sock for added security.
Mock-up suggested it should be fine but needed a stronger magnet than I had. Sun gear also wouldn't clear axle end cap without being loose on axle. This has now been remedied I think so second fit with a stronger magnet happening tonight.
If this goes well then I think we're onto prototyping with delrin and field testing. As Delrin is a pig to glue I've decided I'll use roll pins to join the outer gear ring to the cover on the final version.
If this goes well then I think we're onto prototyping with delrin and field testing. As Delrin is a pig to glue I've decided I'll use roll pins to join the outer gear ring to the cover on the final version.
- Thread starter
- #298
Hi @smokey_jo, I'd love to read more about your prototyping, but I'm wondering if it would be better if you created your own thread outside the Specialized sub-forum? I just don't want people to get too confused since yours is for the Shimano system which may have a lot of differences.
Levon
New Member
Will the Levo Expert LSS be available in black anytime soon...? I would guess the white would get real ugly real quick....
Lev
Lev
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