How many motors have you blown? 2019 levo only

[Bearing Man]

Link Sharing

Definitely still making the noise with the chain off what do you think??

Now I can hear it better I would say it's a bearing, the noise is not uniform or consistent, it is more like a rumble. It is a crank bearing because of the frequency but it could be a crank bearing, or even the belt pulley wheel bearing. Both sprag bearings are locked while this is happening so we can rule those out. The crank bearings are relatively rare, so I would guess the inner crank bearing or large pulley bearing.
It's not something I have heard before, but then I don't normally run the motor on a stand. My guess could be totally wrong, but it would be worth investigating. Drop the crank arm off, can you feel any notchy or stiff feeling through the crankshaft?

 

[gimmick_82]

Link Sharing

Definitely still making the noise with the chain off what do you think??

Hi,
my motor is making the same noise but not as loud as yours. Noise only when i use more than 50% motorsupport.
I Think the noise also gets louder and louder over time.
My motor hast about 700km, never washed my bike, never ridden in rain.

here: maybe Peter Hill has the same problem, i asked him via pm if he knows more about it, but no answer yet.
Edit:
Peter Hills "motor fail" was no motor fail: read here

 

[comtn]

I blew my first motor after 337 miles. The second one made it an additional 502 miles before it blew yesterday. I ride it in Turbo most of the time and spring has been pretty wet here in Colorado. I've heard about some updates and am curious to see how long the next one lasts?
I love the bike but really think they ought to extend the warranty on the motors.
I wonder what it takes to start a class action lawsuit?

What part of Colorado are you in? I just popped my first motor after 479 miles. I’ve kept it out of the slop. Pretty sure the belt or gears stripped out or broke. Not an electrical issue.

 

[RuSoLiNi]

I can't seem to post the video but here is a link that should hopefully work.

Link Sharing

As a 12 day owner of a base model 2020 Levo, this is exactly the same noise mine made a few days ago. I just picked the bike up and hand pedalled it till the 15mph cut off and it went away. Had two days hard riding and its not come back since. The Rockshox forks, however, are damaged already and are very sticky at the bottom of the stroke. I took it in today and was told they need rebuilding.

 

[Mike C]

2019 Turbo Levo Comp motor being replaced after 300 miles. Rubbing sound inside the motor housing with motor on or off. Mechanic recorded sound on phone, called Specialized which said yep, send it back. New one on the way covered by warranty.

 

[nobbyq]

ffs when are specialized going to sort this problem out its been nearly, what 2 years on the market now , , they can't even be arsed with a bit of communication , or acknowledgement , i am just waiting for the day mine goes , i do not feel confident riding far from home on mine , can't even wash it from fear of it not starting again ! great bike otherwise .

 

[Binhill1]

ffs when are specialized going to sort this problem out its been nearly, what 2 years on the market now , , they can't even be arsed with a bit of communication , or acknowledgement , i am just waiting for the day mine goes , i do not feel confident riding far from home on mine , can't even wash it from fear of it not starting again ! great bike otherwise .

Know the feeling mine must be overdue to blow done 2450 miles most in wet conditions. But I do go in the sticks just hope I never have to do the long walk out.

 

[Careyj1]

After motor Failure and then motor noise on my 19, I took matters in my own hands and have rebuilt the motor myself and for others. This is a brose issue. First, motor clearances are very sloppy... bearings to housings just drop in no press fit so the motor relies on belt tension to preload and hold the motor/planetary bearings tight to the housing. The issue is the planetary grease is not sealed and gets onto the belt so as the belt wears and loads with grease the bearings become loose in the housing and the motor rotor has no rear bearing so when the outer bearing becomes lose due to belt wear, this causes the rotor to vibrates due to the magnetic field forces. The grease saturation of the belt and stretch over time causes them to slip/break or cause noise. The other big issue is the needle bearing that supports the inner shaft as it passes threw the outer drive sprocket is not sealed and is directly exposed to outside dirt/water. If basic preventative maintenance was allowed, this motor would last forever. The ones I've rebuild are smoother/quieter than new because I use way better grease and shim for tolerances.

Main things you can do to prevent the motor from failing. First- adjust belt tension every 300 miles or so this is done externally via the Allen set screw on the bottom. 2nd get a grease gun with a needle attachment and fill the space between the crank shaft and sprocket shaft there is a fingernail thick gap there that goes straight into the needle bearing the grease will stop water-dirt from getting in there. then install a felt washer between the crank arm and sprocket shaft this will stop the dirt from contaminating the grease. Again if we were allowed to do the simple belt adjustment which takes less then a min, this alone would save 2/3 of the motor failures out there. I say allowed because they hide the belt adjustment screw under the do no open sticker on the bottom and poping that sticker could cause a warranty issue- thus the double edge sword... adjust it and don't have a failure.. or don't adust it and have a failure that warranty should cover but takes you off the trail for a few weeks? If people are interested I can make a tutorial.

Specialized should hire you to consult with Brose to upgrade these issues and advise dealers and bike owners how to do maintenance. Great job.

 

[MURRAY NZ]

After motor Failure and then motor noise on my 19, I took matters in my own hands and have rebuilt the motor myself and for others. This is a brose issue. First, motor clearances are very sloppy... bearings to housings just drop in no press fit so the motor relies on belt tension to preload and hold the motor/planetary bearings tight to the housing. The issue is the planetary grease is not sealed and gets onto the belt so as the belt wears and loads with grease the bearings become loose in the housing and the motor rotor has no rear bearing so when the outer bearing becomes lose due to belt wear, this causes the rotor to vibrates due to the magnetic field forces. The grease saturation of the belt and stretch over time causes them to slip/break or cause noise. The other big issue is the needle bearing that supports the inner shaft as it passes threw the outer drive sprocket is not sealed and is directly exposed to outside dirt/water. If basic preventative maintenance was allowed, this motor would last forever. The ones I've rebuild are smoother/quieter than new because I use way better grease and shim for tolerances.

Main things you can do to prevent the motor from failing. First- adjust belt tension every 300 miles or so this is done externally via the Allen set screw on the bottom. 2nd get a grease gun with a needle attachment and fill the space between the crank shaft and sprocket shaft there is a fingernail thick gap there that goes straight into the needle bearing the grease will stop water-dirt from getting in there. then install a felt washer between the crank arm and sprocket shaft this will stop the dirt from contaminating the grease. Again if we were allowed to do the simple belt adjustment which takes less then a min, this alone would save 2/3 of the motor failures out there. I say allowed because they hide the belt adjustment screw under the do no open sticker on the bottom and poping that sticker could cause a warranty issue- thus the double edge sword... adjust it and don't have a failure.. or don't adust it and have a failure that warranty should cover but takes you off the trail for a few weeks? If people are interested I can make a tutorial.

I can make a tutorial.
Yes please.

 

[Jabus]

Bike is in the shop again waiting for it’s fourth motor! I’d like to start a thread for 2019 levo owners to post in when they blow a motor. Please include as much detail as possible. How old is bike, how many miles, how long did you wait to get your motor replaced.

Hi, just blew my first motor, 2019 model levo, after 11 months and 3,300kms, haven’t heard how long replacement will take yet. I had had a slight clicking noise like belt slipping over teeth only when under load with turbo (uphil into a head wind) for a couple of weeks, then on a multi day ride with big hills suddenly over 2 hours developed a rubbing sound followed by motor seizing. Is the turbo levo Brose motor a lemon?

 

[Bearing Man]

After motor Failure and then motor noise on my 19, I took matters in my own hands and have rebuilt the motor myself and for others. This is a brose issue. First, motor clearances are very sloppy... bearings to housings just drop in no press fit so the motor relies on belt tension to preload and hold the motor/planetary bearings tight to the housing. The issue is the planetary grease is not sealed and gets onto the belt so as the belt wears and loads with grease the bearings become loose in the housing and the motor rotor has no rear bearing so when the outer bearing becomes lose due to belt wear, this causes the rotor to vibrates due to the magnetic field forces. The grease saturation of the belt and stretch over time causes them to slip/break or cause noise. The other big issue is the needle bearing that supports the inner shaft as it passes threw the outer drive sprocket is not sealed and is directly exposed to outside dirt/water. If basic preventative maintenance was allowed, this motor would last forever. The ones I've rebuild are smoother/quieter than new because I use way better grease and shim for tolerances.

Main things you can do to prevent the motor from failing. First- adjust belt tension every 300 miles or so this is done externally via the Allen set screw on the bottom. 2nd get a grease gun with a needle attachment and fill the space between the crank shaft and sprocket shaft there is a fingernail thick gap there that goes straight into the needle bearing the grease will stop water-dirt from getting in there. then install a felt washer between the crank arm and sprocket shaft this will stop the dirt from contaminating the grease. Again if we were allowed to do the simple belt adjustment which takes less then a min, this alone would save 2/3 of the motor failures out there. I say allowed because they hide the belt adjustment screw under the do no open sticker on the bottom and poping that sticker could cause a warranty issue- thus the double edge sword... adjust it and don't have a failure.. or don't adust it and have a failure that warranty should cover but takes you off the trail for a few weeks? If people are interested I can make a tutorial.

PLEASE STOP!! Read this before following the above advice.

I really don't want to argue about this, or upset anyone who has put effort into trying to find issues and fixes for these motors. Hopefully most of you know me and how many of these motors I work on every day. And that I have a very long and sound mechanical engineering and design background.

I will try and explain a few of the issues picked up by Cncninja:

1, The crankshaft bearings are a smooth fit into the motor cases so that the belt cover can be removed after being fitted. If both bearings were pressed into the covers, you would have a real struggle to remove the belt cover (This is exactly the same with the Yamaha, Shimano etc.) If you look very closely at how the Brose is put together There is a spring 'wave' washer that sits in the centre of the crankshaft and pre loads the bearings against the outer covers and this is compressed as the belt cover is tightened. Most people don't realise this is what the rubber lip on the outer edge of the outer crankshaft bearing seals is for, it is to stop the bearing rotating in the cover once the cover is tightened down on it (Yamaha, Impulse, Panasonic etc. have o-rings around their bearings for the same reason). This fact is also often missed because the wave washer gets partially flattened when the crank assembly is pressed out. This should be re-set before being refitted.

2, The Brose electric motor shaft support bearing is also situated in the belt cover and again, this could not be a press fit as the belt cover must be removable. The pre-load by the belt is extremely light and Brose have now introduced an O-ring to this housing above the bearing to eliminate movement or noise.

3, The grease found in the belt area is a type of Vaseline used to lubricate the belt when it is new. There is not enough grease in the planetary gears to actually leak anywhere?

4, The motor rotor is surrounded equally on all sides by many small rare earth magnets, there are no magnetic field forces as the force is pulling from 360 degrees and neutralises any forces. If you remove the small case bearing, you will find two more below it. Once the belt cover is fitted they make an extremely strong platform for the gearing and drive belt pulleys.

5, The drive belt itself is manufactured from continuous strands of carbon fibre and is virtually stretch resistant. Carbon fibre is not generally affected by hydrocarbon, silicone or lithium based greases or oils.

6, The crankshaft needle bearing is a 2RS bearing and has a seal in each side (granted they don't work too well, but they are there)

7, The drive belt tension is absolutely critical and is factory set and tested to last the expected life of the belt (15,000km) I really would not advise poking around with an allen key unless you own a torque driver that will go down to the very, very low setting required. (The cheapest torque driver to go down to less than 0.3Nm is approx. £65.00). The torque screw is set with loctite and the screw and case thread must be cleaned thoroughly if the belt tension is going to be re-set, so all in all, not a good thing to play with.

8, As I have pleaded in many of my other posts: please don't put grease or oil in the gap between the sprocket carrier and the crankshaft! Firstly, any dirt or grit could get pushed into your crankshaft needle roller bearing. Secondly, the motor is not designed to have grease or oil in it. If and when this grease makes its way past the needle bearing it dilutes the special grease used for the sprag clutch bearings and gets into the torque sensor wiring and pick-ups. It also makes a right bloody mess that I get fed-up cleaning out!

9, Please take care when using felt washers in off-road applications. A felt washer if left dry or not changed regularly will turn into a piece of sand paper and I have seen bad damage done to crankshafts and cases where the washers have been neglected or used in the wrong circumstance.

10, Just to put it into some sort of context I have just looked at the last two months of motor repairs. I have done 37 Brose motors and only one of them was a belt failure. Most claimed belt failures are actually sprag clutch bearing failures. A clutch bearing can give the exact same symptoms of a belt failure, so most people post "belt failure" when it isn't.

Again, I honestly mean no malice in my post, and I am in no way sticking up for the Brose motor. But, as someone who does these things in their sleep, I had to say something.
Cncninja, Please feel free to contact me [email protected] I would rather work with someone than against them.

 

[luna87824]

I have two failed motors from BH ATOM LYNX 6 27.5 PRO bikes and have been emailing Brose USA for 5 weeks with no response from them.

 

[mazukea]

I blew my first motor on my 2019 Expert back on May 13th. 463 miles and only 6 weeks old!
I dropped it off at the LBS on May 15th. They applied for the warranty motor and it was ready for me by May 21. The LBS is about 1 hour 45 minutes from my house. So I didnt get to pick it up until May 23rd. Not a bad turn around time IMO, especially since I live in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and we have the whole Covid-19 slowing everybody down.

I hope this motor lasts a little longer though! But after reading through this thread, it looks like I will probably see another failure in the future.

 

[Paceman]

12 months in and over 4000km on my 2019 Levo, right through the wettest UK winter in memory; no motor problems yet, although the main power cable and TCU had to be replaced under warranty.

 

[Binhill1]

12 months in and over 4000km on my 2019 Levo, right through the wettest UK winter in memory; no motor problems yet, although the main power cable and TCU had to be replaced under warranty.

Same here Paceman 2400mls since July very wet last summer my area.motor cable had crack inn housing replaced at Xmas. Wondering if a lot is pilot error how much oomph are people putting in to these bikes it is easy to break chains or frames ( broke 2 of these ) etc with leg power at the wrong time.

 

[Bearing Man]

Hi Bearing Man no Malice took, but I do have a lot of insight to this motor, and in fact worked as a driveline and BLDC motor engineer. and agree much better to work together.

1, The crankshaft bearings are a smooth fit into the motor cases so that the belt cover can be removed after being fitted. If both bearings were pressed into the covers, you would have a real struggle to remove the belt cover (This is exactly the same with the Yamaha, Shimano etc.) If you look very closely at how the Brose is put together There is a spring 'wave' washer that sits in the centre of the crankshaft and pre loads the bearings against the outer covers and this is compressed as the belt cover is tightened. Most people don't realise this is what the rubber lip on the outer edge of the outer crankshaft bearing seals is for, it is to stop the bearing rotating in the cover once the cover is tightened down on it (Yamaha, Impulse, Panasonic etc. have o-rings around their bearings for the same reason). This fact is also often missed because the wave washer gets partially flattened when the crank assembly is pressed out. This should be re-set before being refitted.

This is correct for Axial load, not radial load, i.e the Belville washer and orings compress and stop side to side play and pre-load. The belt tension alone handles the axial load holding the bearing tight from front to rear/up and down movement. This is why belt tension its very important (see pic)

2, The Brose electric motor shaft support bearing is also situated in the belt cover and again, this could not be a press fit as the belt cover must be removable. The pre-load by the belt is extremely light and Brose have now introduced an O-ring to this housing above the bearing to eliminate movement or noise.

Key work has now....

3, The grease found in the belt area is a type of Vaseline used to lubricate the belt when it is new. There is not enough grease in the planetary gears to actually leak anywhere?

This is not what I've found in the many of motors ive seen. (see pics) it's everywhere and the plastic dish is useless to stop it.

4, The motor rotor is surrounded equally on all sides by many small rare earth magnets, there are no magnetic field forces as the force is pulling from 360 degrees and neutralises any forces. If you remove the small case bearing, you will find two more below it. Once the belt cover is fitted they make an extremely strong platform for the gearing and drive belt pulleys.

this is absolutely incorrect, Brose uses a standard 10/12 pole BLDC motor setup that uses a miss-match number of poles to cause a magnetic reduction this is very common. this causes a star-like magnetic path and very much causes an unbalanced magnetic force to cause the slip/magnetic reduction or overdrive. the rotor has no rear bearing so is supported by a loose bearing under the planetary and a loose bearing in the outer cover both opposite of the rotor. the radial forces caused by the magnetic imbalance has far more leverage of the bearing to housing tolerance and therefore relays heavily on belt tension to stop this vibration. See pic

5, The drive belt itself is manufactured from continuous strands of carbon fibre and is virtually stretch resistant. Carbon fibre is not generally affected by hydrocarbon, silicone or lithium based greases or oils.

No its a standard Gates 5M belt you can buy anywhere its glass fiber, see pic

6, The crankshaft needle bearing is a 2RS bearing and has a seal in each side (granted they don't work too well, but they are there)

Yes, but don't work and not meant for direct dirt contact and go away in the first 100 miles, See pic.. i stand by adding grease to seal this

7, The drive belt tension is absolutely critical and is factory set and tested to last the expected life of the belt (15,000km) I really would not advise poking around with an allen key unless you own a torque driver that will go down to the very, very low setting required. (The cheapest torque driver to go down to less than 0.3Nm is approx. £65.00). The torque screw is set with loctite and the screw and case thread must be cleaned thoroughly if the belt tension is going to be re-set, so all in all, not a good thing to play with.

Then why are so many making noise and braking.... i.e needs to be reset after break-in and reset due to the above issues with the belt providing the preload for the rotor.

8, As I have pleaded in many of my other posts: please don't put grease or oil in the gap between the sprocket carrier and the crankshaft! Firstly, any dirt or grit could get pushed into your crankshaft needle roller bearing. Secondly, the motor is not designed to have grease or oil in it. If and when this grease makes its way past the needle bearing it dilutes the special grease used for the sprag clutch bearings and gets into the torque sensor wiring and pick-ups. It also makes a right bloody mess that I get fed-up cleaning out!

Oil absolutely not... grease as a barrier yes.. there is already grease in there..

9, Please take care when using felt washers in off-road applications. A felt washer if left dry or not changed regularly will turn into a piece of sand paper and I have seen bad damage done to crankshafts and cases where the washers have been neglected or used in the wrong circumstance.

This is why I'm pointing out a maintenance schedule or preventive. I would rather clean a felt washer once a month then not be able to ride for?? as the motors are already on backorder.

Again i didn't take your comment as malice and i will contact you as I also own an aerospace CNC shop as well and have made special pullers to remove the rotor to get to the planetary and inner bearings.

This goes back to if the factory setup was so good then why does this thread exist.. the motors I've done have now gone multitudes longer then the original failure mileage. I believe we both have valid thoughts and much weighs on the technical ability of the individual reading this and wants to look after there motor then deal with it not if but when a problem arises and hopefully still under warranty.. i.e only 1 more year for us 19's

Hi Bearing Man no Malice took, but I do have a lot of insight to this motor, and in fact worked as a driveline and BLDC motor engineer. and agree much better to work together.
Thank you Cncninja, I would look forward to it. Unfortunately, I have to respond to your post, but I am hoping we can agree on most points so the readers may get the best and most accurate information possible.

1, The crankshaft bearings are a smooth fit into the motor cases so that the belt cover can be removed after being fitted. If both bearings were pressed into the covers, you would have a real struggle to remove the belt cover (This is exactly the same with the Yamaha, Shimano etc.) If you look very closely at how the Brose is put together There is a spring 'wave' washer that sits in the centre of the crankshaft and pre loads the bearings against the outer covers and this is compressed as the belt cover is tightened. Most people don't realise this is what the rubber lip on the outer edge of the outer crankshaft bearing seals is for, it is to stop the bearing rotating in the cover once the cover is tightened down on it (Yamaha, Impulse, Panasonic etc. have o-rings around their bearings for the same reason). This fact is also often missed because the wave washer gets partially flattened when the crank assembly is pressed out. This should be re-set before being refitted.

This is correct for Axial load, not radial load, i.e the Belville washer and orings compress and stop side to side play and pre-load. The belt tension alone handles the axial load holding the bearing tight from front to rear/up and down movement. This is why belt tension its very important (see pic) Agreed.

2, The Brose electric motor shaft support bearing is also situated in the belt cover and again, this could not be a press fit as the belt cover must be removable. The pre-load by the belt is extremely light and Brose have now introduced an O-ring to this housing above the bearing to eliminate movement or noise.

Key work has now....

3, The grease found in the belt area is a type of Vaseline used to lubricate the belt when it is new. There is not enough grease in the planetary gears to actually leak anywhere?

This is not what I've found in the many of motors ive seen. (see pics) it's everywhere and the plastic dish is useless to stop it.
Sorry, I can’t find your pic of the grease? (open toed sandals in a workshop! ?) I have added two pictures, one from a new motor showing the clear Vaseline that has been removed by the belt tensioner and an older picture showing the same Vaseline after it has spread around and been contaminated by carbon dust from the belt.


4, The motor rotor is surrounded equally on all sides by many small rare earth magnets, there are no magnetic field forces as the force is pulling from 360 degrees and neutralises any forces. If you remove the small case bearing, you will find two more below it. Once the belt cover is fitted they make an extremely strong platform for the gearing and drive belt pulleys.

this is absolutely incorrect, Brose uses a standard 10/12 pole BLDC motor setup that uses a miss-match number of poles to cause a magnetic reduction this is very common. this causes a star-like magnetic path and very much causes an unbalanced magnetic force to cause the slip/magnetic reduction or overdrive. the rotor has no rear bearing so is supported by a loose bearing under the planetary and a loose bearing in the outer cover both opposite of the rotor. the radial forces caused by the magnetic imbalance has far more leverage of the bearing to housing tolerance and therefore relays heavily on belt tension to stop this vibration. See pic I.
I will totally bow to your knowledge of electric motors and understand what you’re saying regards the pivot moment of the bearing position. Not that I have ever found an issue with this part (other than motor shaft snapping, planetary gears failing etc.)


5, The drive belt itself is manufactured from continuous strands of carbon fibre and is virtually stretch resistant. Carbon fibre is not generally affected by hydrocarbon, silicone or lithium based greases or oils.

No its a standard Gates 5M belt you can buy anywhere its glass fiber, see pic
This is exactly what I thought a couple of years ago. I bought 40 Gates belts and was assured by the supplier that they were identical. I sold them world wide and over the next few months most had snapped or stripped! I have attached two photos below, 1 shows a fibre glass strand Gates belt (you can see the white strands in the belt. The other photo shows a genuine stripped belt, you can see the carbon strands and black dust. Gates finaly confesed (I have the email if you would like it) that the belts I had bought were not the ones they manufacture exclusively for Brose. NOTE: This belt has now been upgraded and caries the Brose name and part number now and not the Gates name.


6, The crankshaft needle bearing is a 2RS bearing and has a seal in each side (granted they don't work too well, but they are there)

Yes, but don't work and not meant for direct dirt contact and go away in the first 100 miles, See pic.. i stand by adding grease to seal this
Agreed, as stated this is not the right bearing for the job. (it is actually a VW/Audi gearbox bearing. Designed to hod grease in not keep water out) This is why we remove it and fit a single lip rotary shaft seal and a new bearing. You are also right to suggest trying to do something but there are some better solutions in the pipeline (I would like to discuss these with you through email or phone).


7, The drive belt tension is absolutely critical and is factory set and tested to last the expected life of the belt (15,000km) I really would not advise poking around with an allen key unless you own a torque driver that will go down to the very, very low setting required. (The cheapest torque driver to go down to less than 0.3Nm is approx. £65.00). The torque screw is set with loctite and the screw and case thread must be cleaned thoroughly if the belt tension is going to be re-set, so all in all, not a good thing to play with.

Then why are so many making noise and braking.... i.e needs to be reset after break-in and reset due to the above issues with the belt providing the preload for the rotor.
90% of the drive failures are NOT the belt. When the sprag bearing fails it sounds like a belt, it feels like a belt but its not the belt. Don't get me wrong, belts do snap and strip. In the early motors there were a few tensioner failures, these always coincided with stripped belts. The belt and all motor components take high shock loads when the sprag bearings are beginning to fail and the motor is revving up and being stopped instantly when the bearing catches again. This is like everyone is now talking about the torque sensor failing and alowing the motors to spin up and die down while your riding. Again, this is one of the sprag bearings slipping and the electronics trying to sort out why the motor is spinning faster than the crank movement sensor says it should be.

Pedal strikes, crashes all don’t help but the fact that when Brose bought out its 2020 motor with a little extra power and all the belts were snapping (enough for them to bring out an all new stronger belt) I would have to presume the old belt was operating somewhere close to its limits.


8, As I have pleaded in many of my other posts: please don't put grease or oil in the gap between the sprocket carrier and the crankshaft! Firstly, any dirt or grit could get pushed into your crankshaft needle roller bearing. Secondly, the motor is not designed to have grease or oil in it. If and when this grease makes its way past the needle bearing it dilutes the special grease used for the sprag clutch bearings and gets into the torque sensor wiring and pick-ups. It also makes a right bloody mess that I get fed-up cleaning out!

Oil absolutely not... grease as a barrier yes.. there is already grease in there..
Again I agree, if you can clean that space out and keep the grease on the outside of the bearing, it would work. But as I said, the little grease that is in the motor is only used on the sprag bearings and it’s a very expensive low-pressure grease. If it gets contaminated by all the different types of grease people may pump into this space, the bearings start to slip and grip. This tends to destroy the bearing by breaking the bearing cage.


9, Please take care when using felt washers in off-road applications. A felt washer if left dry or not changed regularly will turn into a piece of sand paper and I have seen bad damage done to crankshafts and cases where the washers have been neglected or used in the wrong circumstance.

This is why I'm pointing out a maintenance schedule or preventive. I would rather clean a felt washer once a month then not be able to ride for?? as the motors are already on backorder.
I am a huge fan of preventative maintenance, and as an engineer you and many other mechanically minded folk might remember to remove and clean/replace a felt washer, but many others won’t. Again, I am sure there is a better way.

Again i didn't take your comment as malice and i will contact you as I also own an aerospace CNC shop as well and have made special pullers to remove the rotor to get to the planetary and inner bearings. I am very envious of your puller.

This goes back to if the factory setup was so good then why does this thread exist.. the motors I've done have now gone multitudes longer then the original failure mileage. I believe we both have valid thoughts and much weighs on the technical ability of the individual reading this and wants to look after there motor then deal with it not if but when a problem arises and hopefully still under warranty.. i.e only 1 more year for us 19's
You're right again. This thread exists because this motor has some issues, but I work on all motors and there are threads like this on all of them. Your findings are a start but you haven’t touched on the electrolysis or the unsealed screws in the ECU or the sprag bearing failures or the water ingress through the left hand crank bearing, or the contact corrosion issues of the motor plugs or the lifting of the large drive pully bearing following a heavy hit on the left hand crank etc.

I do believe that if we work together we can find sound, workable solutions to most of these issues.

 

[Bearing Man]

@Bearing Man

Sorry man, dr had me start on topical testosterone a week ago and is making me very combative for some reason.. I hope it did not come off that way just trying to come up with solutions the same as you. I need to clarify my procedure i.e cleaning with a pipe cleaner etc first, as you are right if the bike has miles on it, it will already have dirt in there and poor grease or oil will just turn that into a rubbing compound, but a cleaned then greases and then sealed one - i do feel works. I'm going to CNC a mold for a seal, ill hit you up and see what we can come up with to make a good kit as a lot of these will be soon out of warranty. The motor is pretty basic and there is no reason this can't be supported post-warranty. Again sorry if that came off wrong we all want this to just work/solutions I'm happy the way mine is working out.

Not at all Cncninja. I think it is great to get this stuff out there and I am sure people can read between the lines of what we are saying. I would really look forward to talking to you though, even if you might be a little punchy now and then

 

[ReinerSt0ff77]

Levo 2020 after 2600km 4 Months Old Belt or Something Snapt.

Damn Brose

 

[comtn]

Not at all Cncninja. I think it is great to get this stuff out there and I am sure people can read between the lines of what we are saying. I would really look forward to talking to you though, even if you might be a little punchy now and then

Can you comment in more detail on the sprag bearing. How it works, what it looks like when it grenades, how it fails. My bike would not roll backwards. Does this sounds like a sprag bearing failure? I don't believe specialized has updated the sprag bearing?

 

[Bearing Man]

A sprag clutch bearing has many little cam like feet called sprags. These little sprags are housed between two components, in the case of the Brose motor one is housed between the crankshaft and the torque sensor and the other is housed between the torque sensor and the large drive belt pulley. This alows the drive pulley to disconect from the crank and vice versa. The housing of each component provide the inner and outer race for the bearing. The cams are also contained or held in a "cage" this keeps them all where they are supposed to be.
In image 2372 below, you can see the sprags and the "cage". When this bearing starts to fail the small spacers that hold the sprags in place begin to break-up and once one falls out the sprag has enough room to be able to flip over. This is all the cracking and popping people hear. Also, if a sprag gets jamed on its side you will hear a shill whine, like a stripped belt. Once a few of these sprags flip over its normally the end for the bearing and it can no longer keep everything tight enough to jam the crankshaft solid for propulsion.
Unfortunately, Specialized have no control over these bearings because the motor is made by Brose.
Bike not rolling backwards could be sprag bearing, seized needle roller bearing or you had the brake on
Hope you now understand sprag clutch bearings. If you ever change one, please remember they can not be lubricated with high pressure grease, or any grease that has high slip efficiency like Teflon based ect. This will cause the bearing to slip and grip violently and destroy itself. It is the same when people install them into components with poor bearing surfaces.

 

[Swissrider]

Fascinating to read the “conversation“ between bearing man and Careyj1. I guess that like me, most of us don‘t understand everything that they are on about, as they are both obviously experienced engineers. They also may be two on the only people who really get to see what goes wrong with these motors. Do the Brose engineers ever get to see these broken engines? How are Brose and other manufacturers get real feedback on these problems so they can actually do something about it? I guess the vast majority of motors that get sent back just get thrown away as it is not worth the effort to strip them down and see what’s gone wrong. But here we have two people who have gained really valuable insights into these motors and I detect a grudging respect for those that designed them. It seems that the faults in design may be relatively easy and inexpensively fixed, so I really hope that someone from Brose reads these posts, or is pointed in that direction or even better, contacts our “experts” directly. Brose may not think it is worth the effort, but there is no doubt that Specialized is suffering some reputactionable damage and they should exert maximum pressure on Brose. There is potentially a lot to gain and nothing to lose.

 

[eldernoob]

2020 turbo levo comp (alloy frame) first motor was making clicking noises from the start, shop tells me not to worry, continue riding and clicking becomes clanging, shop submits warranty request which specialized refuses to honor for weeks before finally relenting. 450 miles on second motor and belt goes out with a scream, waiting to hear back from shop. also the rockshox deluxe plus rear shock blew out at 250 miles, took 5 weeks to get sram to take care of, sram ultimately admitted shock was defective but rather than replace they rebuilt, the refurbished shock blew out again on second ride. i am a fairly high intensity rider mostly running at 65-100% motor assist

 

[Binhill1]

2020 turbo levo comp (alloy frame) first motor was making clicking noises from the start, shop tells me not to worry, continue riding and clicking becomes clanging, shop submits warranty request which specialized refuses to honor for weeks before finally relenting. 450 miles on second motor and belt goes out with a scream, waiting to hear back from shop. also the rockshox deluxe plus rear shock blew out at 250 miles, took 5 weeks to get sram to take care of, sram ultimately admitted shock was defective but rather than replace they rebuilt, the refurbished shock blew out again on second ride. i am a fairly high intensity rider mostly running at 65-100% motor assist

Not so good . Don't think they take the hammering like the adverts say . If you've blown 2 shocks as well as you say your obviously a hard rider. I snapped a couple frames on ordinary bikes and I wouldn't say I hammered them. Good luck

 

[Binhill1]

Not so good . Don't think they take the hammering like the adverts say . If you've blown 2 shocks as well as you say your obviously a hard rider. I snapped a couple frames on ordinary bikes and I wouldn't say I hammered them. Good luck

Well that's my motor gone yesterday high pitched squealing 2600 miles . Sprag something or other I'm told on its way back to dealer. Glad it wasn't Wednesday as I was miles away from roads.

 

[head]

So, I'm going to welcome myself to the club.

Less than 4 weeks old Turbo Levo Comp 2019 broke (high pitched squealing) after 383 km. I rode it almost 100% in the Turbo mode. I'm going to the LBS next Wednesday.

 

[Binhill1]

So, I'm going to welcome myself to the club.

Less than 4 weeks old Turbo Levo Comp 2019 broke (high pitched squealing) after 383 km. I rode it almost 100% in the Turbo mode. I'm going to the LBS next Wednesday.

Same noise as mine new motor tomorrow or next day.

 

[eldernoob]

2020 turbo levo comp (alloy frame) first motor was making clicking noises from the start, shop tells me not to worry, continue riding and clicking becomes clanging, shop submits warranty request which specialized refuses to honor for weeks before finally relenting. 450 miles on second motor and belt goes out with a scream, waiting to hear back from shop. also the rockshox deluxe plus rear shock blew out at 250 miles, took 5 weeks to get sram to take care of, sram ultimately admitted shock was defective but rather than replace they rebuilt, the refurbished shock blew out again on second ride. i am a fairly high intensity rider mostly running at 65-100% motor assist

update; got levo back in only 4 days working with norcal bikes in santa rosa, no cost. new motor far quieter and smoother than previous motors and is apparently equipped with an improved belt, stoked.

 

[Grugged]

Got in just under a 1000km. Problem is I bought my specialized turbo levo in Germany, but live in Norway. Unfortunately Specialized doesn’t have an office here so took it to a local dealer. They said they will charge me for the labour since specialized only gives them 276kr (around 25 pounds). They said they will probably end up charging me 160 pounds which I will have to pay for labour. Super shit when it is a known issue and makes me wary of buying from Specialized in the future, and means their global warranty isn’t worth the paper it is written on

 

[Binhill1]

New motor fitted seems quiet but only round the block with it . Updated firmware etc using mission control seems to be ok
All up to date stuff . Build date 20 4 2020 so here's hoping .

 

[Grugged]

Not a big job to do your self ,will specialized not send motor to you ?

No not allowed to touch it - has to go through an authorized dealer. Been two weeks now so see how long time it takes