How many motors have you blown? 2019 levo only

[Binhill1]

Good Idea's! I use waterless wash now and have modified mudguards to deflect water away from the motor.

I'm sure there are other idea's out there to prevent water getting to the motor which might be shared before next winter.

Waterless wash curious how you do that

 

[NULevo]

Waterless wash curious how you do that

Now the weather seams to have turned, it's not got to cope with sticky mud. It copes with my daily dusty rides without issue. I do have a full Invisiframe kit too, and it has not scratched the film at all.

Sure it's not for everyone, but it works for me

Muc-Off E-Bike Waterless Wash - 750ml | Merlin Cycles

I see Robs had a go with it too...

 

[Binhill1]

Waterless wash curious how you do that

Ah I see must admit I'm getting the weather now that I wanted last June when I got bike. 3 weeks now and unbelievably dry , we will pay for this mark my words ?

 

[Bearing Man]

I do not doubt that but all the bearings you mentioned wear out and are easily replaced. Good riders cushion the landing but if you not that expert...or make a mistake the motor crank has to absorb an enormous force.

Not half as much as much as those tiny wheel bearings.

 

[RCDallas]

This is a big question. Please don't shoot the messenger because to be honest, I love the Brose motor to ride, I love the smooth quiet power etc. But what I've got to say, is not good.

Thanks for the pictures! OK, so from these it seems that water ingress is causing the majority of these motor issues with the belt being a less common problem...right? I see your replacement bearings have an added seal for the drive side to prevent water from entering...that, the new belt and proper grease should solve most of the issues I would think.

The key it seems is to catch bearing issues early, before they damage the crank shaft and bearing surfaces, then have a rebuild with new belt and seal to prevent future issues. And of course limit the use of water when cleaning the bike! NO PRESSURE WASH!!

Out of curiosity, have you had any of your rebuilds come back for servicing to check the performance of the new seal? I have had a motor replacement of an older T motor that has been a little noisy from the beginning that I am considering opening up to see whats going on. Probably a good time to change to a new belt and add the seal. What would a service cost with these upgrades?

 

[Bearing Man]

Thanks for the pictures! OK, so from these it seems that water ingress is causing the majority of these motor issues with the belt being a less common problem...right? I see your replacement bearings have an added seal for the drive side to prevent water from entering...that, the new belt and proper grease should solve most of the issues I would think.

The key it seems is to catch bearing issues early, before they damage the crank shaft and bearing surfaces, then have a rebuild with new belt and seal to prevent future issues. And of course limit the use of water when cleaning the bike! NO PRESSURE WASH!!

Out of curiosity, have you had any of your rebuilds come back for servicing to check the performance of the new seal? I have had a motor replacement of an older T motor that has been a little noisy from the beginning that I am considering opening up to see whats going on. Probably a good time to change to a new belt and add the seal. What would a service cost with these upgrades?

Unfortunately, I have only covered water ingress in depth because that is what we were talking about here. I obviously see quite a bit of water issues from the UK but from the rest of the world I still see my fair share of sprag bearing failures, belt failures, belt tensioner failures etc. But your second paragraph hits a big nail squarely on the head.
I have fitted this seal to two motors that went on to break other things and the seal is definitely effective for up to a year, I have not seen past this time yet.
I can't really put pricing on forums because they change and what I write here is here for ever, but if you would like to email me I would be happy to discuss. Please bear in mind that a belt should be good for 15,000km's and Brose charge a lot for a belt, so this is something better left until it fails or reaches 15,000km's

 

[Webike]

Unfortunately, I have only covered water ingress in depth because that is what we were talking about here. I obviously see quite a bit of water issues from the UK but from the rest of the world I still see my fair share of sprag bearing failures, belt failures, belt tensioner failures etc. But your second paragraph hits a big nail squarely on the head.
I have fitted this seal to two motors that went on to break other things and the seal is definitely effective for up to a year, I have not seen past this time yet.
I can't really put pricing on forums because they change and what I write here is here for ever, but if you would like to email me I would be happy to discuss. Please bear in mind that a belt should be good for 15,000km's and Brose charge a lot for a belt, so this is something better left until it fails or reaches 15,000km's

Thanks for all of your helpful information Bearing Man, and do you attribute the amount of problematic Brose motors to the popularity of the Specialized brand and quantity of e-bikes sold or does this water intrusion problem occur on other manufacturers motors on a similarly proportional basis? Just wondering if other motor brands have done a better job of sealing the crank bearing and if so, why can't Specialized?

 

[2 stroke]

I blew my first motor after 337 miles. The second one made it an additional 502 miles before it blew yesterday. I ride it in Turbo most of the time and spring has been pretty wet here in Colorado. I've heard about some updates and am curious to see how long the next one lasts?
I love the bike but really think they ought to extend the warranty on the motors.
I wonder what it takes to start a class action lawsuit?

 

[Bearing Man]

Thanks for all of your helpful information Bearing Man, and do you attribute the amount of problematic Brose motors to the popularity of the Specialized brand and quantity of e-bikes sold or does this water intrusion problem occur on other manufacturers motors on a similarly proportional basis? Just wondering if other motor brands have done a better job of sealing the crank bearing and if so, why can't Specialized?

First, I would like to remind everyone that there are thousands of people out there, happily riding around on all sorts of bikes with Brose motors in them. Most main stream ebike motors are very well made and very good quality and they ALL have an Achilles heel. (well some have more Achilles heels than others!)

There are a few things we need to get our heads around first. The ebike market is huge, and most ebikes around the world are road/commuter bikes, not mountain bikes. Commuter bikes are the bikes that these motors were all originally designed for.
Also, Specialized DO NOT make the motor, nor do they have any say what so ever in how it's designed. Believe me when I tell you, Specialized work extremely hard putting all these concerns to Brose.

When the manufacturing industry began to fit ebike motors into Mountain bikes (and this is the same for all motor manufacturers) I honestly don't believe the motor manufacturers were prepared for the type of life their motors were going to be introduced to.
People with road bikes don't tend to pressure wash them, they don't tend to wash them very often full stop, they don't tend to ride them through deep puddles, rivers and streams, they don't ride for hundreds of miles along dusty fire trails, or suffer pedal strikes, etc. etc.
For example, I overhaul all sorts of different motors for many of the couriers who are out there doing 10,000 miles + a year on an ebike! These are only used on road and most are near perfect when I see them once out of warranty, normally after 20 to 30K.
So, back to the original question: There is no doubt Specialized have a relatively large following and although they are sublime bikes with outstanding handling and looks, part of their successes is down to the Brose motor.
A couple of years ago, everyone with a Bosch motor was upset because they were failing every 5 minutes due to water ingress! So, they heard about this extra quiet, good handling, nice looking bike with a Brose motor in it. No bad things could be read about this motor because Brose had not long been put into mountain bikes, so there were not really enough to start making headlines on the forums. So, disillusioned with Bosch, many started buying Specialized. Low and behold, motor failures started to happen!. And now it's really just a numbers game, people with Bosch motors have learnt to keep them dryer, special aftermarket seals and covers are available for the bearings and the new 2020 motors are getting there so complaints on forums are coming down.
The same will happen with Brose. Their new motor cases are now treated so they won't rot away, they have introduced a slightly stronger belt, the right hand crankshaft bearing now has a seal cover, the wiring plugs are better, the crankshaft bearings now have rubber seals on the inside, (although once water has entered the bearing its game over anyway? A rubber seal on the inside just increases the friction!).
Exactly the same thing has happened with Shimano, everyone said they are the best motor ever, never break down, water proof bla, bla! We get asked to repair more Shimano motors in relation to the numbers out there, than Brose even!
It's frustrating for us as customers, I get that, it's exactly why I started Performance Line Bearings in the first place! But for large corporations to change or bring out a new product, the effort is mind boggling. And to be fair, I am guessing most of you are pretty happy with the way you have been treated by Specialized because even though this motor is not their design, they take a lot of expense on the chin and generally bend over backwards to keep their customers happy.
Conclusion:
Most ebike motors are not water resistant.
Some ebike motors are better than others but I don't like to say which or why on an open forum.
Ride your bike and enjoy it.
If it's out of warranty, keep an eye on it and get it fixed at the first sign of trouble.
If the worst comes to the worst, we will do our best to get you going again without having to buy a new motor.

 

[Tedgar]

I blew my first motor after 337 miles. The second one made it an additional 502 miles before it blew yesterday. I ride it in Turbo most of the time and spring has been pretty wet here in Colorado. I've heard about some updates and am curious to see how long the next one lasts?
I love the bike but really think they ought to extend the warranty on the motors.
I wonder what it takes to start a class action lawsuit?

Do you do big drops, jumps and hard hits? Does your motor get wet alot? Trying to figure out how to make my next one and the others I have last longer. Mine that failed does get washed more than the others and I have been spraying with garden hose sprayer right in cranks. Guess I will discontinue that practice. Drops and Jumps....well what would be the point of the bike if I didn't do those? Lol

 

[Mikerb]

Do you do big drops, jumps and hard hits? Does your motor get wet alot? Trying to figure out how to make my next one and the others I have last longer. Mine that failed does get washed more than the others and I have been spraying with garden hose sprayer right in cranks. Guess I will discontinue that practice. Drops and Jumps....well what would be the point of the bike if I didn't do those? Lol

It is a matter of degree but you might want to read page 40 of your manual......Turbo Levo is an All Mountain bike suitable for "condition 4" type riding. = moderate sized obstacles and small jumps.

 

[nickB]

Had my motor replaced a couple of weeks ago. Still worked fine but had got a noisier. It was a Sept 2019 motor with 1100 California miles - rocky but mostly dry trails.

 

[lumpy]

I regularly ride monstrously steep and long grinding climbs that I never would have considered before getting my Levo. I suspect Brose and Specialized never expected people would be asking so much more from these bikes.
My motor puts out over 700 watts peak, and according to BLevo I'm putting out up to 470 watts. No wonder our drive-train wears out!

I just think we're doing stuff with these bike that they never anticipated. And kudos to Specialized for the warranty!

 

[R120]

I think @Bearing Man has hit the nail on the head when he talks about the conditions and type of riding the motors are subjected too - we have a number of older Bosch powered commuter bikes in the family that belong to my in-laws, and the only maintenance they get is once a year from me when I give them a check over and lube the chain etc, and they have been bulletproof. But again they have never been washed just wiped down once in a while, only ridden on the road, never in the rain, and never thrashed simply because the riding done on them is best described as "pootling" around.

My Shimano E8000 motor lasted 2.5k and 18 months of being ridden hard in all conditions, from pouring rain, deep mud, to snow, to dust and sand. Obviously it got washed (carefully!) a hell of a lot during that time. I was annoyed when it went, but TBH at the same time I got more life out of it than I would have expected from a BB for example on a normal bike ride in the same conditions and distance.

I actually think that it was dust and grit during heavy summer riding that did it in, as never had any issues in the wet, and used a bike dryer to dry it out after washing etc, but it went after a prolonged dry period where the trails where super dry and dusty.

 

[Beekeeper]

First, I would like to remind everyone that there are thousands of people out there, happily riding around on all sorts of bikes with Brose motors in them. Most main stream ebike motors are very well made and very good quality and they ALL have an Achilles heel. (well some have more Achilles heels than others!)

There are a few things we need to get our heads around first. The ebike market is huge, and most ebikes around the world are road/commuter bikes, not mountain bikes. Commuter bikes are the bikes that these motors were all originally designed for.
Also, Specialized DO NOT make the motor, nor do they have any say what so ever in how it's designed. Believe me when I tell you, Specialized work extremely hard putting all these concerns to Brose.

When the manufacturing industry began to fit ebike motors into Mountain bikes (and this is the same for all motor manufacturers) I honestly don't believe the motor manufacturers were prepared for the type of life their motors were going to be introduced to.
People with road bikes don't tend to pressure wash them, they don't tend to wash them very often full stop, they don't tend to ride them through deep puddles, rivers and streams, they don't ride for hundreds of miles along dusty fire trails, or suffer pedal strikes, etc. etc.
For example, I overhaul all sorts of different motors for many of the couriers who are out there doing 10,000 miles + a year on an ebike! These are only used on road and most are near perfect when I see them once out of warranty, normally after 20 to 30K.
So, back to the original question: There is no doubt Specialized have a relatively large following and although they are sublime bikes with outstanding handling and looks, part of their successes is down to the Brose motor.
A couple of years ago, everyone with a Bosch motor was upset because they were failing every 5 minutes due to water ingress! So, they heard about this extra quiet, good handling, nice looking bike with a Brose motor in it. No bad things could be read about this motor because Brose had not long been put into mountain bikes, so there were not really enough to start making headlines on the forums. So, disillusioned with Bosch, many started buying Specialized. Low and behold, motor failures started to happen!. And now it's really just a numbers game, people with Bosch motors have learnt to keep them dryer, special aftermarket seals and covers are available for the bearings and the new 2020 motors are getting there so complaints on forums are coming down.
The same will happen with Brose. Their new motor cases are now treated so they won't rot away, they have introduced a slightly stronger belt, the right hand crankshaft bearing now has a seal cover, the wiring plugs are better, the crankshaft bearings now have rubber seals on the inside, (although once water has entered the bearing its game over anyway? A rubber seal on the inside just increases the friction!).
Exactly the same thing has happened with Shimano, everyone said they are the best motor ever, never break down, water proof bla, bla! We get asked to repair more Shimano motors in relation to the numbers out there, than Brose even!
It's frustrating for us as customers, I get that, it's exactly why I started Performance Line Bearings in the first place! But for large corporations to change or bring out a new product, the effort is mind boggling. And to be fair, I am guessing most of you are pretty happy with the way you have been treated by Specialized because even though this motor is not their design, they take a lot of expense on the chin and generally bend over backwards to keep their customers happy.
Conclusion:
Most ebike motors are not water resistant.
Some ebike motors are better than others but I don't like to say which or why on an open forum.
Ride your bike and enjoy it.
If it's out of warranty, keep an eye on it and get it fixed at the first sign of trouble.
If the worst comes to the worst, we will do our best to get you going again without having to buy a new motor.

This reminds me of what happened with motor cars when the M1 was opened in 1959. There were no speed limits but cars were not really accustomed or designed to travel more than 50mph for a prolonged time. Just like emtbs, the environment had changed but the tech had not. Many cars overheated and blew up.

 

[Beezerk]

Ok it's not a 2019 but I met up with a fella in the local woods yesterday (like you do ) who was riding a 2018 Levo. He'd done a LOT of miles since he had it, in the thousands I think he said. He'd gone through three motors and batteries apparently

 

[Bearing Man]

Ok it's not a 2019 but I met up with a fella in the local woods yesterday (like you do ) who was riding a 2018 Levo. He'd done a LOT of miles since he had it, in the thousands I think he said. He'd gone through three motors and batteries apparently

Not uncommon, but then you don't know how he has treated it? He may go straight home and power wash it

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

It is a matter of degree but you might want to read page 40 of your manual......Turbo Levo is an All Mountain bike suitable for "condition 4" type riding. = moderate sized obstacles and small jumps.

The Kenevo has the exact same motor as the Levo installed in it. Are you saying we should only ride moderate sized obstacles and small jumps on a Kenevo as well?

 

[Bearing Man]

The Kenevo has the exact same motor as the Levo installed in it. Are you saying we should only ride moderate sized obstacles and small jumps on a Kenevo as well?

I think you'll find this advice is for the general frame, wheels etc. not the motor.

 

[Beekeeper]

I think @Bearing Man has hit the nail on the head when he talks about the conditions and type of riding the motors are subjected too - we have a number of older Bosch powered commuter bikes in the family that belong to my in-laws, and the only maintenance they get is once a year from me when I give them a check over and lube the chain etc, and they have been bulletproof. But again they have never been washed just wiped down once in a while, only ridden on the road, never in the rain, and never thrashed simply because the riding done on them is best described as "pootling" around.

My Shimano E8000 motor lasted 2.5k and 18 months of being ridden hard in all conditions, from pouring rain, deep mud, to snow, to dust and sand. Obviously it got washed (carefully!) a hell of a lot during that time. I was annoyed when it went, but TBH at the same time I got more life out of it than I would have expected from a BB for example on a normal bike ride in the same conditions and distance.

I actually think that it was dust and grit during heavy summer riding that did it in, as never had any issues in the wet, and used a bike dryer to dry it out after washing etc, but it went after a prolonged dry period where the trails where super dry and dusty.

They can take away my power washer and streams but they shall NEVER take away my dusty fire tracks ?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

I think you'll find this advice is for the general frame, wheels etc. not the motor.

100% agree

 

[HORSPWR]

It is a matter of degree but you might want to read page 40 of your manual......Turbo Levo is an All Mountain bike suitable for "condition 4" type riding. = moderate sized obstacles and small jumps.

The Kenevo has the exact same motor as the Levo installed in it. Are you saying we should only ride moderate sized obstacles and small jumps on a Kenevo as well?

Yep, and never wash it and live in Death Valley where it never rains.

 

[Bearing Man]

Yep, and never wash it and live in Death Valley where it never rains.

Too dusty!

 

[Tedgar]

The Kenevo has the exact same motor as the Levo installed in it. Are you saying we should only ride moderate sized obstacles and small jumps on a Kenevo as well?

Same thought I had, so I looked at the Kenevo user manual. Level 4. ?

 

[Tedgar]

first about 3000km - belt problem - after 8 months. second now 200km in. Took about 2 weeks to replace. Mostly ride MTB trails. No Alps, but some hilly terrain and mostly run in ECO.

had same problem as him:

Did anyone ever determine what exactly this failure was? The dealer is just replacing my motor and has no idea what went out.

 

[Bearing Man]

Same thought I had, so I looked at the Kenevo user manual. Level 4. ?

Just an arse covering exercise

 

[Bearing Man]

Did anyone ever determine what exactly this failure was? The dealer is just replacing my motor and has no idea what went out.

The only thing that spins this fast at that speed is the electric motor, so the only thing it could be is a snapped motor shaft or stripped planetary gears. This only happens when the belt snaps and jams the drive pulley, snapping the ceramic pulley gear or stropping the planetary gears.

 

[Tedgar]

The only thing that spins this fast at that speed is the electric motor, so the only thing it could be is a snapped motor shaft or stripped planetary gears. This only happens when the belt snaps and jams the drive pulley, snapping the ceramic pulley gear or stropping the planetary gears.

Thanks. That must why it was mechanically locked when trying to roll backwards. The belt snapped in there. It did free up after some acoustic pedaling back home.

Is the worst scenario on a belt to be in high gear slow pedaling up a hill in turbo? Demanding most from the motor? Like my wife rides. LOL.

I ride at as little as 15% (my ECO) assist quite a bit. My turbo mode is set at 70%. I do ride fast and standing up a lot and spin past the assist speed on steeper downs. Do you think that is bad for the belt? Trying to figure out if my riding style has prematurely damaged the belt.

 

[Bearing Man]

Thanks. That must why it was mechanically locked when trying to roll backwards. The belt snapped in there. It did free up after some acoustic pedaling back home.

Is the worst scenario on a belt to be in high gear slow pedaling up a hill in turbo? Demanding most from the motor? Like my wife rides. LOL.

I ride at as little as 15% (my ECO) assist quite a bit. My turbo mode is set at 70%. I do ride fast and standing up a lot and spin past the assist speed on steeper downs. Do you think that is bad for the belt? Trying to figure out if my riding style has prematurely damaged the belt.

It does not mater what you do, the belt is only driven by the motor, nothing to do with what you do with the pedals. This is why you can still pedal the bike if the belt has snapped.
Turbo obviously puts the greatest strain on the belt, but that should not stop you riding in Turbo. The replacement belts are slightly stronger so this issue should start to go away.

 

[Bearing Man]

Thanks. That must why it was mechanically locked when trying to roll backwards. .

This is more likely to be the large drive pulley sprag clutch bearing, when it fails you can loose assistance from the motor, but also the little sprag teeth inside the bearing can temporarily jam in the bearing races. Either way it's time to get the spanners out or send it back for a new one.