How long will your EMTB last you?

[B1rdie]

Everyone who bought an ebike for what it is will be very satisfied with actual performance. But it seems like some have bought the dream of having a 24 kilos motocross and this will be frustrating. Besides ebikes should be compared to bikes and not to any kind of fuel powered vehicles, that sounds nonsense. If you consider these bikes with a cordless driller motor should take you to the top of a mountain with the comfort and speed of a truck and then perform on the trails like a honda cf250 you will be very frustrated, but, consider: thousands of ebikes are being sold and ridden while a few ones come here to complain.

 

[Noobster]

I think the main issue is the backup, not so much the motors themselves. In my opinion the motors we have at the moment are pretty much where you want to be in terms of output, and the main advances are in the software, which is after all what determines how the bike feels to pedal, and how it reacts to the riders inputs. The software is also what makes sure the motor doesn't eat itself.

As @steve_sordy says the failure rate of some of the motors, in terms of timelines, is on a par with a lot of normal bike components, the main difference is that in the majority of cases, mainly due to lack of experience in some LBS's, and also what manufacturers are recommending, most problems, even small, are solved by a motor or battery swap, and currently this takes time as the motors have to be sent back to the supplier, certified for warranty, and a new one sent out.

Now there are some dealers for Specilized, such as Berkshire Cycles, who hold stock of spare motors, and make this process a whole lot less painful, and on the Bosch side of things they hade service centres at certain dealers where they can repair various problems on site.

I love my Vitus, and the issue with the motor is frustrating due to the timescales involved, just to fix the torque sensor.

The one thing I would say from nearly 2 years of EMTB ownership, riding hard in all conditions, all year round, pretty much every other day, is you need to stay on top of maintenance, and that I will defiteyl buy my next EMTB from a dealer, and a dealer that has the necessary experience so that they can put the bike together properly in the first place, and the back up to sort issues quickly.

I agree completely. I have had my bike for nearly 2 weeks and not had an issue with it and use it nearly everyday for commutes and maybe a weekend ride out. I've not had a problem with it yet as its only 2 weeks old however if and when in the future I feel the need to buy another I would pay the extra to buy a e bike from a local dealer as the horror storys I've heard of going through warranty with CRC is just unacceptable. I use it to commute so even being without it for a week will cause issues. I would hope that a local dealer would try to get it fixed quick and give a loan bike if needed. It seems worth paying that bit more for extra security.

On the up side though while it is working fine it's doing a cracking job. No fuel or insurance. My work is only 5 miles away so take 20 minutes to commute. And not getting to work all sweaty is great. Just wish they were reliable enough.

I really think e bikes could be a big part of the future for commuting for lots of people. I would jump at the chance of having a lightweight road e bike that was reliable and a EMTB that was reliable for fun at the weekend . But until reliability is sorted as soon as something goes wrong with this bike I probably will be considering purchasing a 2nd family car again.

The government should really get in this at is such a crazy good way to stop pollution and get people relatively fit at the same time. 2 of the most important things in the current day.

 

[R120]

I would add that we have 2 Bosch motored hybrid/town bikes in the family, and they have had zero issues in two years and about 3000 miles each, with pretty much zero maintenance.

Its the conditions that MTB's are ridden in that presents the issues

 

[steve_sordy]

..........

Its the conditions that MTB's are ridden in that presents the issues

And its the same for clockwork mtbs, why not emtbs also.

 

[Ananda]

I’d rather trump than the tories , but that’s another story.....

Back to ebikes, they are newm the tech is new and you will get problems....simple really

It is not about tech, that is what I am trying to say all time long. It is about substandard quality control, or going cheap on manufacture or both (maybe they are the same thing, I dont know).
There is nothing new about the tech, neither it is hard to source bigger better bearings, or better sealing, or more reliable electronics etc. All this tech is decades old.

 

[MattyB]

It is not about tech, that is what I am trying to say all time long. It is about substandard quality control, or going cheap on manufacture or both (maybe they are the same thing, I dont know).
There is nothing new about the tech, neither it is hard to source bigger better bearings, or better sealing, or more reliable electronics etc. All this tech is decades old.

Bigger bearings and better sealing add cost and weight though; neither are sexy, and neither have been requested (yet) by their focus groups. Slinky battery integration though, that's waaaaay more important...

Personally I have decided that as I am still enjoying my clockwork and don't need an EMTB for at least a few more years I will wait for reliability to improve. I definitely think we will will be investing in a basic hub motored hybrid though for family use, it should help get my wife out on rides with the kids.

 

[Peaky Rider]

Its the conditions that MTB's are ridden in that presents the issues

That is the problem and the need to clean off the muck which you won't have on your commute.

I'm beginning to think that the way to go is not to buy one expensive bike but two cheap ones so, whilst one is in the shop being repaired (hopefully under warranty although I have found the warranty useless so far) you have the other one to ride.

 

[Ananda]

Its the conditions that MTB's are ridden in that presents the issues

Peculiar way to say "emtb are not made to the standards for the conditions they are meant to be ridden"

 

[Noobster]

I would add that we have 2 Bosch motored hybrid/town bikes in the family, and they have had zero issues in two years and about 3000 miles each, with pretty much zero maintenance.

Its the conditions that MTB's are ridden in that presents the issues

If I'm honest I'm not a good enough rider to throw my EMTB down hills and clear gaps. I like to adventure on sunny days along woodland trails and use it to commute in tarmac, thinking about getting some ardent race tyres for it as the tyres in it are overkill. So your post would make me happy in terms of I don't do serious stuff like you guys. But.... @Gary uses the same bike as me just for commuting and he has motor problems ??

 

[thebarber]

For me the biggest problem is that the motors cannot be locally serviced in the majority of cases, and that any issues tend to mean a lengthy delay in getting he bike back on the trails as the motor is sent back to the manufacturer for warranty.

I have now been without my E-Sommett for nearly 10 weeks, and I am pretty sure that any half component mechanic could have fixed the motor by replacing the relevant parts in under an hour.

Whilst bike companies are jumping on the Bike bandwagon as they see it as the current bicycling goldrush, the infrastructure to maintain the bikes isn't in place yet to anything like a satisfactory level.

Bit late and you know mine was done local in no time at all and I was reimbursed by wiggle

 

[Fivetones]

Peculiar way to say "emtb are not made to the standards for the conditions they are meant to be ridden"

And which conditions should they be designed for? Hot, dry and dusty? Cold and wet? High humidity? Freezing? Muddy? Rocky?

Come on. Think that through.

By and large designing a product for market is a whole series of compromises. The manufacturer isn’t out to fleece you, if they did you’d go to a competitor. That’s how a free market economy works.

The manufacturers are learning. Volumes are set to go up. This allows economies of scale but also greater appetite for R&D spend. The product matures.

No sense getting uppity if you don’t like this. It goes hand in hand with being an early adopter. Like I’ve said.

 

[R120]

Bit late and you know mine was done local in no time at all and I was reimbursed by wiggle

Yes that's what's happening with one, it just took CRC ages to confirm I could do it.

 

[steve_sordy]

And which conditions should they be designed for? Hot, dry and dusty? Cold and wet? High humidity? Freezing? Muddy? Rocky?

Come on. Think that through.

By and large designing a product for market is a whole series of compromises. The manufacturer isn’t out to fleece you, if they did you’d go to a competitor. That’s how a free market economy works.

The manufacturers are learning. Volumes are set to go up. This allows economies of scale but also greater appetite for R&D spend. The product matures.

No sense getting uppity if you don’t like this. It goes hand in hand with being an early adopter. Like I’ve said.

Riding in the dry and dusty heat of UTAH, is a world away (literally as well as figuratively) from the cold wet mud of the UK.

 

[Beekeeper]

The motor is the killer, I reckon the bike will be going strong but as for the motor that's another story. 1700ks and my first motor has been replaced, now 1000ks later there is a click on the right side, I'm hoping it's a crank or pedal but even if it is I know this motor will be toast before warranty is out. They are ridden hard and in shit conditions it's inevitable they'll die young. It's an expensive hobby.

As a beekeeper I know that my bees have perfectly designed wings for their purpose and environment. But every journey they make in the hunt for nectar they bash a wing on something After about 30 days of accidental knocks and scrapes their wings can no longer support them and they never make it back ?. Some bees are very unfortunate and slice a wing on their very first journey. I guess anything mechanical will eventually let us down no matter how well designed it is.

 

[Ananda]

And which conditions should they be designed for? Hot, dry and dusty? Cold and wet? High humidity? Freezing? Muddy? Rocky?

Come on. Think that through.

By and large designing a product for market is a whole series of compromises. The manufacturer isn’t out to fleece you, if they did you’d go to a competitor. That’s how a free market economy works.

The manufacturers are learning. Volumes are set to go up. This allows economies of scale but also greater appetite for R&D spend. The product matures.

No sense getting uppity if you don’t like this. It goes hand in hand with being an early adopter. Like I’ve said.

It seems that most problems are with motor sealing and bearings. Industry knows very well how to address these issues. But when most consumers think the way you do, there is clearly no rush for better quality. We drive changes and we clearly do not give a rats ass.

 

[Doomanic]

Does industry know how to do it without increasing cost, weight and drag? Or indeed, any one of those things?

 

[Ananda]

Does industry know how to do it without increasing cost, weight and drag? Or indeed, any one of those things?

No they dont. But they still sell more they can make, so there is no real drive to learn and everybody is clearly very happy.

 

[Gary]

Does industry know how to do it without increasing cost, weight and drag? Or indeed, any one of those things?

Bigger, stronger (main axle) bearings wouldn't really be much more expensive when bought in the quantities a company like Shimano can, wouldn't weigh huge amounts more and wouldn't particularly cause much more drag.
Trust me. designers know all this. They simply don't think it important enough as for every rider like me there are probably 100s happily getting over 2 years use out of the shitty bearings they currently spec.

 

[Fivetones]

It seems that most problems are with motor sealing and bearings. Industry knows very well how to address these issues. But when most consumers think the way you do, there is clearly no rush for better quality. We drive changes and we clearly do not give a rats ass.

Your response is emotional. The market behaves rationally.

So by your response no company that sells an e-MTB “gives a rat’s ass”. Yuh huh. No one is forcing you to buy an e-MTB.

 

[Fivetones]

Bigger, stronger (main axle) bearings wouldn't really be much more expensive when bought in the quantities a company like Shimano can, wouldn't weigh huge amounts more and wouldn't particularly cause much more drag.
Trust me. designers know all this. They simply don't think it important enough as for every rider like me there are probably 100s happily getting over 2 years use out of the shitty bearings they currently spec.

Perhaps, but they’ll definitely want to get it right for your use case too when these go mass market. Otherwise it will damage the brand.

 

[Gary]

They already are mass market

 

[Gary]

Your response is emotional. The market behaves rationally.

So by your response no company that sells an e-MTB “gives a rat’s ass”. Yuh huh. No one is forcing you to buy an e-MTB.

no mate. Your responses are "emotional"
it's not about anyone forcing anyone else to buy an emtb.
it's about making a product that is actually fit for purpose.
None of the most popular Emtb motors currently are IMO.

 

[Fivetones]

They already are mass market

Not yet they’re not. Not compared to the urban e-bikes or mtb in general. They’re the closest two reference points we’ve got to go on.

 

[Fivetones]

no mate. Your responses are "emotional"
it's not about anyone forcing anyone else to buy an emtb.
it's about making a product that is actually fit for purpose.
None of the most popular Emtb motors currently are IMO.

And not one of the companies care? They’re all in league to rip us all off? Come on Gary, think that through.

 

[Gary]

I can't even be bothered...

 

[Gary]

Stop making shit up I haven't ever said

 

[Stefan-SS]

We know Haibike use 2 systems. Wich motor is on yours? If that 2016 is reliable the 2017, 18, 19, 20 should be.

I have the Yamaha PW motor with 80 nm torque and the old display that can be removed. It work a treat. I actually bought the Fullnine 10.0 FS with the Yamaha PW-X motor not long ago. It is my primary trailbike now but I have only ridden 1600 kilometers on it. Comparing the two motors I must say I prefer the older one because it´s softer release when I hit the speed limit. The new PW-X fells a bit stronger but has a harsh cutoff at the speed limit that does not "phase out" but rather cut off if you see what I mean. I end up running the new bike on a lower assist level to get at smoother ride. If I hadn´t known my PW-motor and the softer release I would just have rolled with it and thought it to be the way e-bikes work. Both are great bikes.
My best friend bought a 2017 Haibike All mountain 6.0 FS a year after I bought my first bike (After he tried my HT in the forest). It just keep going. He only ride foresttrails on weekends and after work. He usually pack a spare battery in his backpack and ride between 35-75 kilometers each time in pretty harsh places. He tries gametrails and go where noone usually rides. Mud and twigs is all over him and his chain usually only lasts about 800 - 1000 kilometers. His 160 mm suspension front and rear has some work cut out for them. He also have the Yamaha PW motor and the removable display. I asked him before this summer and he told me he had ridden almost 6000 kilometers of forest trails by now. There has been no problem at all! Mind you, he spends half an hour washing, drying and lubing the bike after each ride. He will never let this bike go unless it break beyond repair.

Cheers!

 

[Fivetones]

Stop making shit up I haven't ever said

I’m paraphrasing what you are saying. Ok, so no company at all makes a motor that’s fit for purpose because they’ve done the sums and decided that the 1/100 portion of their customers don’t matter? Yet the difference in cost is a couple of quid.

E-MTB manufacturers will definitely want to get it right for that small section of the market too. As they’re more or less ambassadors.

The more realistic situation is that this is the hard bit to get right for all conditions and while this is a developing technology they got it wrong.

The early adopters pay the cost of the early adoption.

 

[33red]

I’m paraphrasing what you are saying. Ok, so no company at all makes a motor that’s fit for purpose because they’ve done the sums and decided that the 1/100 portion of their customers don’t matter? Yet the difference in cost is a couple of quid.

E-MTB manufacturers will definitely want to get it right for that small section of the market too. As they’re more or less ambassadors.

The more realistic situation is that this is the hard bit to get right for all conditions and while this is a developing technology they got it wrong.

The early adopters pay the cost of the early adoption.

I am not an early adopter.
We were 5 friends 45 years ago on small 2 wheels never focussed on waranty, with reasonable reliable bikes with reasonable resale value. 1 had a solex, mine was a mobylette, 1 was suzuki and 2 were honda. Excuses are excuses. We were riding in minus 30-35. I know the planet is changing but 45 years is enough to adjust some small bikes.

 

[Gary]

Paraphrase.

meaning:
to repeat something written or spoken using different words, often in a humerous form or in a simpler and shorter form that makes the original meaning clearer.


You seem to have confused "paraphrasing" with "Libeling"
ie.
To type a whole load of shit someone didn't actually say