How are eMTBs 1/3 the price of a Tesla model 3?

[SwampNut]

It's definitely not necessary, like this whole thread, or even MTBs in general.

Some dummy on another forum just insisted that I wasted $12k on Autopilot when it does nothing. First, AP is free on every Tesla, and second, since I let the car drive itself on AP nearly all the time, we can say for a fact it does something. Is that stupidity worth mocking?

 

[arTNC]

It's very disappointing when people try to promote either EV or fossil fuel energy concepts based on biases. There is no free lunch. If you're one who places extremely high priority on environmental "cleanliness", neither side of energy production can claim the "holy grail" of purity in this venture. I think EV's have their place and fossil fuel energy has its place in both transportation and industry.

This forum is about emtb's. That's primarily about recreational

 

[RustyIron]

Some dummy on another forum just insisted that I wasted $12k on Autopilot when it does nothing.

Just more poor people expressing their prejudice against successful people.
But just because he can't afford nice things doesn't make him a dummy.

 

[MountainBoy]

You're not the least bit simplistic, are you?

The question is about where my consumer dollars end up. Supporting Shimano today is not endorsing their actions 80 years ago. If the profits earned from my consumer choices wind up either in the pockets of reprehensible people like Elon Musk or dictators like Vladimir Putin (small example, I won't consider Kaspersky products because they pay Russian taxes), I will make different choices. I will not be a part of financing their activities. I didn't buy a single Apple product when Steve Jobs ran the company, I have no issue buying from Apple under Tim Cook's stewardship.

I do exercise my conscience as a consumer and try to make informed choices. It's not always possible or practical, but I will continue to try to do so. If I ever am considering a BEV, it won't be a Tesla. Might be a Volvo/Polestar, might be a Hyundai/Kia, might be a VW/Audi/Porsche (notwithstanding dieselgate) ... but I will not be financing Elon Musk's complete lack of honesty or decency.

You would have to have a twisted sense of humanity to think Elon Musk is a reprehensible person. Sure, that's the narrative the media has cultured since he talks freely and they can pretend he said or meant things he never did. He's actually an outstanding person, pushing humanity forward, standing up for freedom of speech and calling out lies and deception of the mainstream media. He doesn't spend jack on advertising while he steadily erodes sales of companies that spend billions on advertising, so it's no wonder the media hates him.

Only gullible people actual believe he's reprehensible. I'm glad he's calling out the "woke mind virus". What made it obvious to me is when I saw men competing against women in track and field (and winning). They were allowed to compete against women because that's who they identified as. LOL! They said they felt as if they were women, never mind they looked like men and had a penis (you could see it bulging under their uniform)! That never would have passed the rationality test back when I was in track!

What is this world coming to?

 

[SwampNut]

Just more poor people expressing their prejudice against successful people.
But just because he can't afford nice things doesn't make him a dummy.

You missed the part that AP is free, and dummy is for making false claims. Like most anti-Tesla crap.

 

[RustyIron]

You missed the part that AP is free, and dummy is for making false claims. Like most anti-Tesla crap.

Sorry. I was being facetious. He is a dummy.

 

[JP-NZ]

Just a OT question for Tesla/BEV owners around the world. Apart from electricity, do you pay a higher vehicle registration or something else to pay for using the roads? Over here in NZ we have a Road user charge $71 per 1000km

 

[Polar]

Was it trail riding or commuting (or both)? Probably more than 95% of the time spent on my Rails are off road on single tracks. I hose down my bike with a gardenhose, never power wash it. I’m not sure why the motors fail, but I suspect water coming in. They have all (mostly) thrown different error codes

Both and i use Muc-off silicon spray all over the bike so very easy to hose down. Never used power wash

 

[drocho]

ebikes is a SCAM

 

[Polar]

ebikes is a SCAM

Nothing wrong in scams as long as you enjoy them actually it's free to be scammed

 

[Money Pit]

Because middle aged men keep buying S Works models thinking they it will make them ride like Richie Rude.

If people didn't buy them they wouldn't make them.

People should spend ten minutes pricing up components then work out the how much they are paying for a frame really.

My carbon levo was £3600. With basic parts. £1500 later and it's got fox 38, super deluxe coil, magura brakes, carbon bars etc. Still overpriced but not nearly as bad as buying into the whole s works level scam.

 

[Polar]

Because middle aged men keep buying S Works models thinking they it will make them ride like Richie Rude.

If people didn't buy them they wouldn't make them.

People should spend ten minutes pricing up components then work out the how much they are paying for a frame really.

My carbon levo was £3600. With basic parts. £1500 later and it's got fox 38, super deluxe coil, magura brakes, carbon bars etc. Still overpriced but not nearly as bad as buying into the whole s works level scam.

How is middle aged ladies riding?

 

[Money Pit]

How is middle aged ladies riding?

Apologies.. Both genders then, although I'd hazard a guess 9/10 SWorks are bought by men. Judging by what I see on trails anyway.

Not really the point I was making but if that's the bit you want to latch onto then you do you

 

[Nomad1]

yea and? the raw materials, RND and manufacturing of the bike I chose as an example will be way higher than the costs for an EMTB.
I was making a direct comparison between 2 different types of bikes that cost the same money.

What has a 50k bike go to do with anything? have you got a 50k EMTB we can compare it too? maybe in a few more years

I was comparing 2 types of bikes that cost the same money and can handle the same terrain. surely a fair and even comparison ?



People really believe that?

my point was you can pay big money or get something inexpensive or buy something in between. Yes I have a 50K EMTB if you want to buy one .

 

[SwampNut]

Just a OT question for Tesla/BEV owners around the world. Apart from electricity, do you pay a higher vehicle registration or something else to pay for using the roads? Over here in NZ we have a Road user charge $71 per 1000km

In the US, they have been subsidizing EV sales in many ways. When I bought mine, that was a factor; vastly reduced registration. I paid about $75 for 7 years; insanely cheap. My electric motorcycle was purchased after the subsidy ended and cost $650 for a couple years. Oh, every state is different; might as well be countries on some laws. My state has eliminated the subsidy but is not charging a "make up" tax for the lost gas subsidy yet. Some states are charging a meager fee of $200 or so. Nobody is charging by miles that I know yet. Americans will lose their minds if "government is tracking me" but it's the way it needs to go. Tesla could easily anonymize my monthly miles and charge me per mile for the road tax.

There's other talk about charging different electric rates for cars, and CA does it, but they charge LESS. Again, subsidizing EVs. But it could be a higher charge. Yet that's easily defeated. My area is mostly nuke-powered and has super low rates, so if they added a big tax on that, everyone would be motivated to cheat. Pretty sure I would.

 

[wenna]

Uhm, have you seen the price of amish roadbikes?

 

[SwampNut]

Apologies.. Both genders then, although I'd hazard a guess 9/10 SWorks are bought by men. Judging by what I see on trails anyway.

Not really the point I was making but if that's the bit you want to latch onto then you do you

I'll tell my wife you said we need to sell her high end bike and she needs to learn her place. Keep me in your thoughts and prayers.

 

[Quinterly]

You would have to have a twisted sense of humanity to think Elon Musk is a reprehensible person. Sure, that's the narrative the media has cultured since he talks freely and they can pretend he said or meant things he never did. He's actually an outstanding person, pushing humanity forward, standing up for freedom of speech and calling out lies and deception of the mainstream media. He doesn't spend jack on advertising while he steadily erodes sales of companies that spend billions on advertising, so it's no wonder the media hates him.

Only gullible people actual believe he's reprehensible. I'm glad he's calling out the "woke mind virus". What made it obvious to me is when I saw men competing against women in track and field (and winning). They were allowed to compete against women because that's who they identified as. LOL! They said they felt as if they were women, never mind they looked like men and had a penis (you could see it bulging under their uniform)! That never would have passed the rationality test back when I was in track!

What is this world coming to?

He's been reprehensible in his business dealings going back to paypal. There's plenty of historical information about the way he treats people that makes him a POS.

You're making an assumption that I'm making an assumption based solely on how he's positioned "X". My views of Musk have nothing to do with politics.

 

[wenna]

You would have to have a twisted sense of humanity to think Elon Musk is a reprehensible person. Sure, that's the narrative the media has cultured since he talks freely and they can pretend he said or meant things he never did. He's actually an outstanding person, pushing humanity forward, standing up for freedom of speech and calling out lies and deception of the mainstream media. He doesn't spend jack on advertising while he steadily erodes sales of companies that spend billions on advertising, so it's no wonder the media hates him.

Only gullible people actual believe he's reprehensible. I'm glad he's calling out the "woke mind virus". What made it obvious to me is when I saw men competing against women in track and field (and winning). They were allowed to compete against women because that's who they identified as. LOL! They said they felt as if they were women, never mind they looked like men and had a penis (you could see it bulging under their uniform)! That never would have passed the rationality test back when I was in track!

What is this world coming to?

What does men competing against women have to do with Musk and freedom of speech?
Two completely different issues.
And I would hope we could keep politics out of this forum.

 

[SwampNut]

And I would hope we could keep politics out of this forum.

One man's human rights and ethics issue is another's politics. Not being political, but to help on understanding human psychology. People on both sides will see a given issue as an intrinsic rights or ethics issue, but the other side sees it as politics. Reverse the roles for another given topic. I don't have a side. Nobody I've ever been willing to vote for has ever been elected.

 

[Moderator]

To clarify, as we didn't point it out earlier in this thread.

We generally try to keep politics out of the forum. It's an EMTB forum. Yes, sometimes a tiny deviation is allowed when it's relevant to a discussion - but I think we're far past that here.

Equally keep your political viewpoints to yourselves. Don't try and spin things and pretend their not politics and absolutely keep your homophobia, transphobia, biphobia and acephobia views off the forum.

 

[SwampNut]

We generally try to keep politics out of the forum. It's an EMTB forum. Yes, sometimes a tiny deviation is allowed when it's relevant to a discussion - but I think we're far past that here.

I'm a mod on a motorcycle forum that has a politics section. It is so hard to define "political" and what we're finding is that it truly is based on each person's perspective. In my area they are trying to pass new e-bike restrictions, is that "political?" What about when you talk about how it's mostly one party doing it? It's so damn complicated. I guess I'm just saying that I'm familiar with the challenge. And here, I've been part of the problem.

 

[Plummet]

Supply and demand is the answer.

You want to pay as little as possible and the manufacturer/bike shop wants to make as much as possible.

What the average purchaser is prepared to pay for that item sets the retail price.
Its simply economics.

Don't want to pay the price?, buy something cheaper, wait for a sale or second hand.

 

[Roger20]

My take on Tesla as a new owner of a Highland Model 3.

I'm probably a petrolhead at heart but made what I consider to be a rational decision to change from a Porsche Boxster S and Golf GTi to the Model 3 - one car to do it all.

I absolutely love it and whereas the Golf was OK it never inspired me like the Tesla. The Porsche was sublime - handling and manual gear change are exceptional but it's expensive to maintain and not a practical daily car. Glad I owned it but the M3 is such an enjoyable experience and unless I could afford to own a high end ICE as well I can't see me ever going back to petrol again.

 

[Tgianco]

Uhm, have you seen the price of amish roadbikes?

Why'd you have to go dragging Ezekial into this?

 

[DieBoy]

Uhm, have you seen the price of amish roadbikes?

About 700€ ?

 

[SwampNut]

Tesla is dead. I got a Rivian truck that can haul my bikes.

 

[Nomad1]

My take on Tesla as a new owner of a Highland Model 3.

I'm probably a petrolhead at heart but made what I consider to be a rational decision to change from a Porsche Boxster S and Golf GTi to the Model 3 - one car to do it all.

I absolutely love it and whereas the Golf was OK it never inspired me like the Tesla. The Porsche was sublime - handling and manual gear change are exceptional but it's expensive to maintain and not a practical daily car. Glad I owned it but the M3 is such an enjoyable experience and unless I could afford to own a high end ICE as well I can't see me ever going back to petrol again.

M3 is a BMW

 

[RickBullotta]

This argument applies to Amish bikes as well. When you add up the cost of the components on a full suspension bike, the motor and battery are only a small adder ($1000-2000 or so). It's not "eMTBs are 1/3 the cost of a Tesla", it's "mountain bikes are 1/3 the cost of a Tesla"

 

[RickBullotta]

I am not suggesting that we don't need to pivot away from fossil fuels. We absolutely do. However, I am pretty sure that mass adoption of BEVs is not the answer because of all the other environmental harms. Whether it's green/blue hydrogen (either FCEV or ICE) or synthetic fuels, or something else isn't clear yet. It is indisputable that BEVs are, emissions aside, a pox on the environment.

The grid issue is not universal (I live in a jurisdiction that is pretty close to 100% hydro-electric generation) but there are jurisdictions where the marginal generation of electricity for mass adoption of BEVs will be almost universally fossil fuel (including Arizona) which defeats some of the lemming-like arguments in favour.

As for your car vs mine. I paid $3000 less for a new RS3 than a comparably equipped Model 3 (admittedly before EV rebates). My RS3 is sub-4 seconds (in other words, quicker than a Model 3). And, I would note that there is more to driving dynamics than acceleration which are militate in favour of the RS3. Yes, I concede it is more costly to run because I have to buy gas but your hubris over the value proposition of your Tesla is ... "ill-informed".

100% agree - the driving sensation of a 400+ hp Porsche or Audi is far more engaging than a Tesla. Sound, handling, feel - all superior. I have not yet driven a Taycan Turbo GT or an eTron GT RS - they supposedly have nailed the handling despite being very heavy vehicles.