Help me decide on a Specialized Levo Expert?

[Tori]

Hey guys. I've had a Merida e160-900E on order for the past 3 months . . . and had put down a deposit on the bike. The bike has been constantly delayed, there are supply issues with the model and demand is really high. I spoke to the importers here in Australia yesterday, and they are also frustrated - their requested orders aren't being fulfilled from offshore (Taiwan?), and a lot of customers are having to wait long times. I know - first world problems . . .

I had decided upon the Merida, because for the specification, it is incredibly good value at $7200 AUD. On a recent trip to Tasmania I had a chance to ride a Turbo Levo, but it was a 2017 base model. I also rode a 2018 Merida e120-500, which is a much lower spec than the 160-900E, but it has the Shimano Steps system.

How much improvement is there in the 2018 Brose 1.3 motor? I have a friend who runs a Specialized store in Australia and he can do a ripping deal on a 2018 Turbo Levo EXPERT FSR for $9500 AUD. Still, it's over $2000 more than the Merida . . .

Earliest time I could get delivery of the Merida would be mid-May. I could have the Expert Turbo Levo early next week . . .

FOR the Merida : Great specs at great price, playful bike, smaller modular battery that I could carry a 2nd of and do long multi-day trips.
FOR the Levo : Full decoupling of the motor past 25kmph. Quiet operation. Better looks and battery integration (but the battery is so bloody long).

Can any of you guys compare the Shimano Steps and 2018 Brose 1.3x motor? What do you think? Go the Expert Levo or wait for the Merida?? I know both are good bikes, I just need a bit of help making this first world problem go away.

Cheers

 

[kcarbon]

Hey Tori, I have owned two Levo's. the 2018 Comp Carbon FSR much improved over the early model.
I think the Expert would be even better as Ohlins forks & lighter, the motor great below 24kph.
I road a Shimano powered bike in a car park so hard to tell what it's like. but the handling and feel of the 2018 FSR Levo hard to beat as far as I know all E bikes in AU limited to 24kph, it mostly helps up hills. as I get over the motor limit a lot and the bike peddle powers fine. I hate waiting!!

 

[outerlimits]

I am also in Australia, and I Went with a 2018 Base model Levo alloy frame as it was all I could afford at 6k. I would of liked the Expert Levo, as it rides much much better imo.
I test rode the 2018 Merida the silver lower spec one 800e not the bright green one.
It was way better spec than my Levo and rode real nice, but when the power cut it felt like the brakes went on and it realy upset the flow of the trail. This made me hate the bike.
I test rode a Carbon Red Levo $10500 worth Expert. It was on par or slightly better than the Merida I tested.
If you can get the Expert Levo for $9500 jump on it. Rides as nice or better than the Merida 800e and miles ahead of the base alloy Levo.
And the power cut out on the Levo is miles ahead of any others.
Wish I had the $’s for the Expert Levo.

 

[Gary]

but when the power cut it felt like the brakes went on and it realy upset the flow of the trail. This made me hate the bike.

Sorry to derrail the thread. but can you explain this?
I'm massively confused.
I wasn't aware the motors slowed these bikes down. When you stop pedalling don't they freewheel like a normal bike does? the rear wheel has a normal freehub afterall.
If not I might be making a huge mistake in buying the E-bike I've ordered..
<EDIT> Nevermind. I re-read this article What's the best E-MTB motor? Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha, Brose, Panasonic | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine and it all makes sense to me again.
If there's only drag pedalling above 25kph. that's fine for my use. I tend to gain speed more through pumping terrain and using gravity rather than pedalling anyway. There's always the option to modify the limit if somehow it does interfere badly with holding speed.

Sorry again Tori.

 

[Doomanic]

He’s talking about how the bike feels when you hit the speed limit but continue pedalling. Some bikes feel more natural as you switch over to unassisted pedalling and some feel like you’re riding through treacle (I’m looking at you, Bosch...)

If you stop pedalling, an eBike behaves like a clockwork bike as it coasts.

 

[Gary]

Thanks Doom. I editted my post above. Phew.

 

[outerlimits]

Thanks Doom. I editted my post above. Phew.

The Specialized uses the Brose motor and tia motor is the only one as far as i’m Aware that decouples the motor when there is no power. Like when you keep pedaling after the Say 25kmh limit, or the bike is off, or you have run out of battery.
You don’t have to use your legs to spin the motor or any gearing it uses. Therefore it feels like a normal but heavy bike, not a normal heavy bike dragging the brakes.

 

[Tori]

Thanks for posting guys. I'm going to sleep on the decision but I am leaning towards dropping the hard earned on the Expert Levo.

One question . . . the trail remote for the Levo - on the handlebar - can you switch the motor off here? And can you switch between motor off and eco or trail or boost quite quickly? On the Shimano system, the base mode is 'motor off' which is very easy to switch to and from other modes. I did a ride in Derby Tasmania in February - and rode a Merida with Shimano on one day. It was really easy to kill the motor assist completely when doing downhill sections, then on undulating sections of cross-country riding, you could vary between assist or non assist.

 

[Gary]

That's great info on the Shimano motor Tori. Very helpful. Thanks.

 

[Tori]

That's great info on the Shimano motor Tori. Very helpful. Thanks.

No worries. Let me know if you have any other questions, I only spent one day riding with the Shimano Steps and it was great. On the 2017 Levo I rode, you had to switch power modes on the frame buttons . . . which was pretty crap compared to the handlebar remote system with Shimano. I know the 2018 Specialized eMTB's have the handlebar mount, but can it toggle quickly to 'motor off' mode? That's what I hope to learn . . . it would be a pain to have to power the bike down (with a potential delay) when you switch off the motor to use your own power here and there.

 

[ccrdave]

you cant switch the motor off using the handlebar remote but you can set the eco mode to zero assist so switching to eco the only power will come from you. I have to say im not sure why you would want to switch the power off anyway, going downhill it wont assist unless you pedal and there is no drag from the brose motor when its not assisting and you wont use the battery.
The handlebar remote switches pretty quick but my only criticism is you cant actually see if its switched when you have pressed the button. My solution to this is I bought a small bluetooth display that shows the modes your in along with speed and distance. you can also do this by mounting your phone on the bars and run the mission control app

 

[comtn]

These bikes are heavy pigs. I would never want to ride mine without assist. The motor doesn't drag on downhills so I don't see the need to power off.

 

[ccrdave]

Tori if you want to feel like you are riding a normal weight bike you can set the eco mode to 4-5% or just enough to compensate for the weight of the bike, then when you switch to eco it will feel like you are riding a normal weight clockwork bike.

I still wouldnt want to do that though lol!!

 

[Gary]

No worries. Let me know if you have any other questions, I only spent one day riding with the Shimano Steps and it was great. On the 2017 Levo I rode, you had to switch power modes on the frame buttons . . . which was pretty crap compared to the handlebar remote system with Shimano. I know the 2018 Specialized eMTB's have the handlebar mount, but can it toggle quickly to 'motor off' mode? That's what I hope to learn . . . it would be a pain to have to power the bike down (with a potential delay) when you switch off the motor to use your own power here and there.

Thanks again. I think from most of what I've read I've pretty much got my head round how the Steps works.
Yeah. seems odd Spesh chose to put the mode controls on the frame in the beginning. Odder still that now they've gone to bar controls not to include an off option there. Sounds like playing with the assistance levels through the app will be a decent compromise though.

See. I really don't get comments from E-bikers who say switching to Eco makes their 50lb bike feel like a normal weight bike. It won't. It can't. The bikes weigh around 50lb. When riding that's never going to change. "rides lighter" is acommon term used by mountain bike reviewers in the media and quite frankly it;s bollocks. Pedal power is only a very small part of how we handle our bikes off road. Ok. so I doubt I'd ever choose to ride any 50lb bike uphill very often but for most other situations that unpowered 50lb bike still relies as much if not more on rider input than pedalling power to be ridden well. The way I ride descents I rarely ever pedal at all. and even on faster flat/undulating trails I tend to only pedal when absolutely required. Infact because of this one of my DH bikes is single speed.
For a little bit of background into what I'm saying here I rode and raced DH since the early 90s. Back then our DH bikes weighed between 47 and 52lb. Yeah. Really, no motor! Heavy tyres and between 4-6" of suspension. And you know what? we rode them all weekend every weekend and as much as we could in the evenings. None of us ever complained about the weight despite pushing them uphill for hours on end to get to the top of DH tracks. And those primative old bikes actually handled the tracks we rode incredibly well considering the technology available. There were. and still are plusses and negativs of riding a heavy bike over rough terrain. My current DH bikes now weigh 35 and 36lb. And they are both nicer to change direction and manhandle but aren't actually as stable and don't hold momentum like those old heavy bikes could. (they also didn't slow down anywhere near as well as modern bike) It took a different riding technique to ride them well for sure but I feel it's still absolutely manageable. Modern suspension and braking systems you typically find on a 150mm trail bike today vastly outclass those old bikes in performance too.

Anyway. sorry yet again for derrailing your thread Tori.

 

[Theolegit]

Hey guys. I've had a Merida e160-900E on order for the past 3 months . . . and had put down a deposit on the bike. The bike has been constantly delayed, there are supply issues with the model and demand is really high. I spoke to the importers here in Australia yesterday, and they are also frustrated - their requested orders aren't being fulfilled from offshore (Taiwan?), and a lot of customers are having to wait long times. I know - first world problems . . .

I had decided upon the Merida, because for the specification, it is incredibly good value at $7200 AUD. On a recent trip to Tasmania I had a chance to ride a Turbo Levo, but it was a 2017 base model. I also rode a 2018 Merida e120-500, which is a much lower spec than the 160-900E, but it has the Shimano Steps system.

How much improvement is there in the 2018 Brose 1.3 motor? I have a friend who runs a Specialized store in Australia and he can do a ripping deal on a 2018 Turbo Levo EXPERT FSR for $9500 AUD. Still, it's over $2000 more than the Merida . . .

Earliest time I could get delivery of the Merida would be mid-May. I could have the Expert Turbo Levo early next week . . .

FOR the Merida : Great specs at great price, playful bike, smaller modular battery that I could carry a 2nd of and do long multi-day trips.
FOR the Levo : Full decoupling of the motor past 25kmph. Quiet operation. Better looks and battery integration (but the battery is so bloody long).

Can any of you guys compare the Shimano Steps and 2018 Brose 1.3x motor? What do you think? Go the Expert Levo or wait for the Merida?? I know both are good bikes, I just need a bit of help making this first world problem go away.

Cheers

Download the latest issue of e-mountain bike mag Levo won best in test for 2018 and the Brose motor has been given best motor on test, enough said!

 

[ccrdave]

Thanks again. I think from most of what I've read I've pretty much got my head round how the Steps works.
Yeah. seems odd Spesh chose to put the mode controls on the frame in the beginning. Odder still that now they've gone to bar controls not to include an off option there. Sounds like playing with the assistance levels through the app will be a decent compromise though.

See. I really don't get comments from E-bikers who say switching to Eco makes their 50lb bike feel like a normal weight bike. It won't. It can't. The bikes weigh around 50lb. When riding that's never going to change. "rides lighter" is acommon term used by mountain bike reviewers in the media and quite frankly it;s bollocks. Pedal power is only a very small part of how we handle our bikes off road. Ok. so I doubt I'd ever choose to ride any 50lb bike uphill very often but for most other situations that unpowered 50lb bike still relies as much if not more on rider input than pedalling power to be ridden well. The way I ride descents I rarely ever pedal at all. and even on faster flat/undulating trails I tend to only pedal when absolutely required. Infact because of this one of my DH bikes is single speed.
For a little bit of background into what I'm saying here I rode and raced DH since the early 90s. Back then our DH bikes weighed between 47 and 52lb. Yeah. Really, no motor! Heavy tyres and between 4-6" of suspension. And you know what? we rode them all weekend every weekend and as much as we could in the evenings. None of us ever complained about the weight despite pushing them uphill for hours on end to get to the top of DH tracks. And those primative old bikes actually handled the tracks we rode incredibly well considering the technology available. There were. and still are plusses and negativs of riding a heavy bike over rough terrain. My current DH bikes now weigh 35 and 36lb. And they are both nicer to change direction and manhandle but aren't actually as stable and don't hold momentum like those old heavy bikes could. (they also didn't slow down anywhere near as well as modern bike) It took a different riding technique to ride them well for sure but I feel it's still absolutely manageable. Modern suspension and braking systems you typically find on a 150mm trail bike today vastly outclass those old bikes in performance too.

Anyway. sorry yet again for derrailing your thread Tori.

of course it will never ride like a 12 kilo bike, you will still have to muscle it about but I was suggesting to the OP that the motor can or cannot be compensated for in different ways, one of the advantages of the levo/kenevo is the ability to tune it to how you want but theres no magic wand to remove weight anybody who has experience riding ebikes will understand that and one ebike will ride very differently to another, for instance my levo is very agile and decending it does not feels like a 22kg bike but a couple of others I have ridden feel like tanks., but thats not the point for those that havent much experience there are plenty of misconceptions and hopefully in this forum we can give our experience to help those who are just getting a new bike

 

[Theolegit]

of course it will never ride like a 12 kilo bike, you will still have to muscle it about but I was suggesting to the OP that the motor can or cannot be compensated for in different ways, one of the advantages of the levo/kenevo is the ability to tune it to how you want but theres no magic wand to remove weight anybody who has experience riding ebikes will understand that and one ebike will ride very differently to another, for instance my levo is very agile and decending it does not feels like a 22kg bike but a couple of others I have ridden feel like tanks., but thats not the point for those that havent much experience there are plenty of misconceptions and hopefully in this forum we can give our experience to help those who are just getting a new bike

My Levo does feel like a tank to me but then again I did have a carbon Capra, however at my local trail Center today I achieved 8 pb’s and they were downhill!!! Go figure ?

 

[ccrdave]

I watched a youtube vid where guys were adding lead to the frame of an enduro bike to see if there was an improvement and depending on where the lead was added it made the bike descend faster. Gary just said about the old school downhill rigs being very heavy and they were but they were also very fast. I think that as ebikes have all their weight down low (if they are designed properly) they will descend faster than a light weight bike and they will be very stable, I got to have a go on a kenevo and you just sort of sit there the bike just smashes through everything, but of course its all down to the rider, thats where the skill is and unfortunately I dont have much of that lol

 

[Tori]

Download the latest issue of e-mountain bike mag Levo won best in test for 2018 and the Brose motor has been given best motor on test, enough said!

Yep, I have read that article and I think they do very thorough reviews. Their 2017 test was influential in my decision to purchase a Merida e160 900E . . . but now with the delays [to delivery of the Merida] the 2018 test is making me feel like I will be very happy with a Turbo Levo. I think I would be super happy with either bike.

 

[Tori]

you cant switch the motor off using the handlebar remote but you can set the eco mode to zero assist so switching to eco the only power will come from you. I have to say im not sure why you would want to switch the power off anyway, going downhill it wont assist unless you pedal and there is no drag from the brose motor when its not assisting and you wont use the battery.
The handlebar remote switches pretty quick but my only criticism is you cant actually see if its switched when you have pressed the button. My solution to this is I bought a small bluetooth display that shows the modes your in along with speed and distance. you can also do this by mounting your phone on the bars and run the mission control app

Very valid points, and you're right, with the Brose system, I guess it's not really necessary to have a power off toggle. I think the Shimano Steps has the power off mode because it disengages the motor completely, removing the very slight drag you have from being in an assist mode while riding downhill. I have watched a lot of videos from MidLifeBiker on his Merida, and he pretty much always toggles to motor off for his downhills, and I asked him via Youtube comments about this etc, he confirmed a slight drag on downhills if staying in a power mode.

 

[Kernow]

Some confusion here as to how the motor behaves when it’s off or reaches the cutout , The shimano and Brose both behave the same , there is no residual drag from the motor , it’s simply a normal bike when the motor drive is off Just a heavier normal bike . The shimano drive can be turned to off while riding by simply pushing the mode trigger just by selecting the next click below eco and it’s back instantly when you press the select lever
If Iam riding steady on flat or downhill I often turn it off

 

[kcarbon]

Hi Tori, first levo I had was a 1.2 Brose Fattie HT, I used a Garmin remote.
the 2018 comp carbon with update motor has a hard wired switch on bars & I use mission control. this bike has a longer range on one fully charged battery, it is smoother & you notice on a hot day, power stays the same. my first tube levo, on a hot day power assist could fall off as motor got hot.
I have ridden a total of 2,600 k now & still love it, I have ridden it with power off just to see seemed ok to me, just peddle harder.

 

[outerlimits]

Some confusion here as to how the motor behaves when it’s off or reaches the cutout , The shimano and Brose both behave the same , there is no residual drag from the motor , it’s simply a normal bike when the motor drive is off Just a heavier normal bike . The shimano drive can be turned to off while riding by simply pushing the mode trigger just by selecting the next click below eco and it’s back instantly when you press the select lever
If Iam riding steady on flat or downhill I often turn it off

I disagree
The Shimano Steps motor on the 2018 Merida I rode had a lot of resistance after the 25kmh cutoff. My Levo does not have this resistance.
I did read in the eMtb mag that the Shimano system decouples like the Brose system, but does it ? It is the only place I have read this. My experience however goes against this.

You will be very happy with the Expert Levo. There is a vast amount of available Knowledge out there about the Levo. They appear to have a great resale value. They are very tuneable with the app and if need be there are other 3rd party apps available that do more. Pretty much, not much to dislike about them.

 

[hjscm]

I don't think you could go wrong with a levo. Just took my S-Works levo out for the first time on a good trail by my house and it was incredible.

 

[Kernow]

I disagree
The Shimano Steps motor on the 2018 Merida I rode had a lot of resistance after the 25kmh cutoff. My Levo does not have this resistance.
I did read in the eMtb mag that the Shimano system decouples like the Brose system, but does it ? It is the only place I have read this. My experience however goes against this.

You will be very happy with the Expert Levo. There is a vast amount of available Knowledge out there about the Levo. They appear to have a great resale value. They are very tuneable with the app and if need be there are other 3rd party apps available that do more. Pretty much, not much to dislike about them.

Must have been other factors you were noticing , tyre drag etc , the motor certainly does decouple just like the Levo . The earlier Levo demmo I hired had so little power as it reached the 25k limit the cut out was hardly noticed , Iam sure it had been detuned somehow .

 

[Tori]

Hey guys, thanks for all your advice. I have just purchased a 2018 Expert Levo FSR . . . and I'll be picking it up early next week!

Can't wait

 

[ccrdave]

Must have been other factors you were noticing , tyre drag etc , the motor certainly does decouple just like the Levo . The earlier Levo demmo I hired had so little power as it reached the 25k limit the cut out was hardly noticed , Iam sure it had been detuned somehow .

yes thats my experience I rode a merida and it was very draggy after cutoff, i also road a vitus e sommett and there was no drag after cuttoff

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hey guys, thanks for all your advice. I have just purchased a 2018 Expert Levo FSR . . . and I'll be picking it up early next week!

Can't wait

Congrats - you're going to love it!!

 

[Gary]

Hey guys, thanks for all your advice. I have just purchased a 2018 Expert Levo FSR . . . and I'll be picking it up early next week!

Can't wait

Jealous. enjoy

 

[Hedge Monkey]

I have a levo fsr
And loving it...