GIANT Traumas. Are they BATTERY firmware related?

[trailaddict]

Yesterday, 24.07.2023, a new Version of the RideControl App has been released for iOS and Android.
I had to manually update the App because it was not advertised automatically like other apps, but this might be related to my Phone or its settings.

When connecting my bikes, an update of the SmartGateway was advertised.
It is Version 20230719000.

I've reached out to GIANT Support Team to get some details what is changed / fixed in this version.

 

[Megavolt]

Yesterday, 24.07.2023, a new Version of the RideControl App has been released for iOS and Android.
I had to manually update the App because it was not advertised automatically like other apps, but this might be related to my Phone or its settings.

When connecting my bikes, an update of the SmartGateway was advertised.
It is Version 20230719000.

I've reached out to GIANT Support Team to get some details what is changed / fixed in this version.

Hi!
That's good news, thanks for the info, we'll be installing these wonders

 

[trailaddict]

According to GIANT support, the bugs of the previous version 20230609000 have been fixed with 20230719000.

 

[Megavolt]

According to GIANT support, the bugs of the previous version 20230609000 have been fixed with 20230719000.

Hey, everybody!
I confirm after the update and three cycles of charging to 100% , there is no need to remove the battery anymore.
Whether this update solved the problem with overheating of the motor, I can not say for sure, my friend now on a Giant Reign in the Altai mountains, he had this problem, I do not know if he updated, there the connection is not very good, this place is remote from internet connection.

 

[Pjotr1980]

Heard a rumor that this update has some anti tuning checks, anyone else heard same?

 

[Megavolt]

Heard a rumor that this update has some anti tuning checks, anyone else heard same?

I only know of rumors that there could be a problem if you have a chip.

 

[Pjotr1980]

Yes, 300km and engine locks itself. Yamaha only can unlock it.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Yes, 300km and engine locks itself. Yamaha only can unlock it.

Interesting...
Can you elaborate ton this and provide some evidence please?

 

[cappuccino34]

It would be super easy for motor companies to diagnose if a chip is fitted, so why wouldn't they?

If cadence/wheel revolutions > 1.75 whilst delivering torque for more than a second or two then it's chipped.

 

[cappuccino34]

So if you really want to run chipped, fit a DH cassette. :-D

 

[funnel]

It would be super easy for motor companies to diagnose if a chip is fitted, so why wouldn't they?

If cadence/wheel revolutions > 1.75 whilst delivering torque for more than a second or two then it's chipped.

The chip fakes wheel revolutions so your formula wouldn't work. The only way they could detect the faking of wheel revolutions it is by some external speedometer that uses GPS or some other method that is not connected with the wheels.

 

[Mikerb]

The chip fakes wheel revolutions so your formula wouldn't work. The only way they could detect the faking of wheel revolutions it is by some external speedometer that uses GPS or some other method that is not connected with the wheels.

all of our bikes have software algorithms that use torque and cadence to determine the current delivered to the motor......and what speed that would typically relate to. Continued operation where that speed falls outside the algorithm norms over any pre determined time range...maybe averaged over several hours.........can be detected.

 

[funnel]

all of our bikes have software algorithms that use torque and cadence to determine the current delivered to the motor......and what speed that would typically relate to. Continued operation where that speed falls outside the algorithm norms over any pre determined time range...maybe averaged over several hours.........can be detected.

How would they determine you're going on like a 2000m high mountain vs a long straight road with the same average power?

 

[Mikerb]

How would they determine you're going on like a 2000m high mountain vs a long straight road with the same average power?

Yamaha motors also have an incline sensor ( Yamaha quad Sensor System)

 

[funnel]

Yamaha motors also have an incline sensor ( Yamaha quad Sensor System)

Ok. So how do you determine you don't ride high upwind on a straight road for like 2 hours straight?

 

[Mikerb]

Ok. So how do you determine you don't ride high upwind on a straight road for like 2 hours straight?

because you dont do that for 300kms...........it is probably gathering enough data over time to average out different riding conditions.

 

[cappuccino34]

The chip fakes wheel revolutions so your formula wouldn't work. The only way they could detect the faking of wheel revolutions it is by some external speedometer that uses GPS or some other method that is not connected with the wheels.

Exactly, the rear wheel frequency is halved (usually); but nobody is going to be using a chainring smaller than 30 with a rear sprocket larger than 52, so if the rear wheel speed frequency received by the motor controller is lower than the specified ratio of the cadence then the rear wheel frequency must be being manipulated, if there's torque being applied for more than a second or so (required for situations like a broken chain where a cadence overspeed is possible but only momentarily).

Manipulating electronic diagnostic functions is part of my daily job, BTW.

You definitely DON'T need to know actual speed from another source to diagnose a manipulated wheel speed frequency when the gear ratios have known fixed limits.

 

[cappuccino34]

Ok.
Is anyone using a rear sprocket larger than 52, with a chainring smaller than 30?

There's your answer.

 

[Kiwiscoot]

I bought a second hand 2021 Giant Trance X E Pro 3 that was the patrol bike here at our local mountain bike park. It has had a hard life over the 2500 km it's done. It had the auto switch off issue and after that I was normally not able to switch it on. The control LEDs would just flash on and off. Only way was to remove the battery, wait a bit and the put the battery back. Sometimes that would not even work.
The power button on the controls were very worn, so I replaced the MY21 controls with a new one. The Ride Control App updated it on the first connection after that. After this I took the motor with all the wiring out the bike. The pins on the bike's discharge connector had a bit of wear, so I put spacers in under the connector to space the connector about 1 mm deeper into the battery. I cleaned all connectors in the wiring and the battery thoroughly before re-assembling (I am an electronics engineer with experience in military missile development) with small cable-ties holding each of the connectors together. Everything seemed to work ok thru numerous tests. After fitting everything back in the bike it ran fine for 6kms but cut out when I crossed over a railway line on my first ride after this. I could switch it on and it has not done that again. Even after 20 kms of rough terrain. However that once off did not give me full confidence that it is fixed. I had the bike cut out on me resulting in a hard 42km ride back with no assist before I did all this work.

Interesting thing tho is my battery firmware does not relate to anything I have seen on the internet. My 625wh battery firmware comes up as 0B001400 on the Ride control app with the hardware as 2019-something. Battery condition is 92% with 93 full charges. Taking the bike in on Friday to have the firmware updated and waiting for an 800wh battery from overseas.
As a side note, I also have a 2023 Giant Trance X analogue bike that I put a CYC Photon motor and a 540wh battery on. This is a good 6kgs lighter than my 2021 model. The ride is quite different (more analogue) but I like both, each has pros and cons.

 

[Evolution Stu]

**3 year anniversary**

Just thought i would pop a fresh status update on here:
Bike is still ridden every weekend and still to date has never failed since that battery firmware update.
My pal Phils is the same and he rides more then me.

Thats 3 full years of trouble free riding in all conditions.
(Including snow)

Shes even had some upgrades like the MY24 Fox 38 and X2 to cushion my often very poor landings at bike park wales and Glentress! LOL

There is not a shadow of doubt that the GIANT / Panasonic battery firmware caused me that 2 years of trouble and money.