GIANT Traumas. Are they BATTERY firmware related?

[Evolution Stu]

Just an update to say that I now have both of my batteries upgraded to the latest firmware by Giant and will be test riding this weekend and as often as possible to see if the bike is any more reliable.

There is also a new main harness part number which I have also obtained so I will keep that part for a future strip down as I plan to silicon seal all the bikes covers onto the frame to limit water ingress there also as the fit is pretty pathetic in my opinion.

As an aside,
I have also ordered the lock mech parts to try and convert the system to a Giant Reign type with no key barrel/lock.
Giant can’t confirm if it will fit and work so I am going to take one for the team and find out myself.

I promise that I will report back when I have any data of value to share.

 

[O'l Timer]

Be good to see your progress report. An update to mine is that I took my Son's bike into a Giant LBS called Cycle Revival at Heathfield / Sussex. They interrogated the bikes fault code and other data held within it and sent to Giant with my version of events. Two days later I received a message from CR saying that Giant had deduced a Battery fault upcoming and will be replacing the battery under warranty. Negative side it's going to be 6-7 week lead time. So will be going out next week and hopefully with his battery or mine in his bike we can carry on biking. My 2019 E +2 Pro still in garage awaiting a rear caliper, which will be done on Saturday in case the brown stuff hits the fan. These batteries are much more than a store for electricity me thinks.....lol.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Be good to see your progress report. An update to mine is that I took my Son's bike into a Giant LBS called Cycle Revival at Heathfield / Sussex. They interrogated the bikes fault code and other data held within it and sent to Giant with my version of events. Two days later I received a message from CR saying that Giant had deduced a Battery fault upcoming and will be replacing the battery under warranty. Negative side it's going to be 6-7 week lead time. So will be going out next week and hopefully with his battery or mine in his bike we can carry on biking. My 2019 E +2 Pro still in garage awaiting a rear caliper, which will be done on Saturday in case the brown stuff hits the fan. These batteries are much more than a store for electricity me thinks.....lol.

At least they identified an issue and are replacing it pal, presumably it will come with the very latest firmware so you will be in the same position I am today. That is, excited to get out on some of the more remote trails i have been avoiding in case the damn bike fails on me. Lol

 

[Jafajones]

Wow what a story and makes me a little afraid about my situation, privately purchased a preloved 2019 Fathom so absolutely no Giant warranty etc. I am going to read your story over again to try to make sure I don't have a similar situation, I don't think I have your stamina and certainly don't have your knowledge.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Marecki]

Good day. Just for records. I am riding a Giant Trance X E + 29 2021 with EnergyPak 625wh and I am also having problems with engine suddenly powered off since very beginning. My battery hardware version is 2020461217 and software 17PF. My LBS replaced my engine and harness, but since then I have only ridden 100km so it's hard to say if it helped.

Regards,
Marek

 

[Evolution Stu]

Hi Marek,
Sorry to hear you too are having these issues.
I have been unable to complete my testing at the moment as the lads I need to swop parts around with havent been able to ride for a couple of weeks. My bike now exhibits a new fault and I need to test my batteries on my mates bike to see if its related to the FW before I jump to conclusions.

I havent forgotten this topic and will be back to update it.

I am also having problems with engine suddenly powered off since very beginning. My battery hardware version is 2020461217 and software 17PF.

 

[Evolution Stu]

My bike now exhibits a new fault and I need to test my batteries on my mates bike to see if its related to the FW before I jump to conclusions.

I havent forgotten this topic and will be back to update it.

Time to update this topic a little.
You may recall that back on January 11th I had the battery firmwares updated in my batteries. Since that date I have had a new issue. The bike wont turn OFF.

Now that is a MUCH better problem than the original one, which is it would turn off and wouldnt turn back on.

I still have the updated GIANT loom to fit but i wanted to perservere and see how long the current issue lasted before it "dried out"

To date, it still wont switch off and its been over 2 months.
I have tested these batteries in my mates bikes and all is well, so it seems that whatever issue the old battery identified on my bike is still there, but the BATTERY FIRMWARE RESPONSE to that issue has changed.

Instead of powering down, the battery now stays on. So it seems to me that the folk we see with a "Wont power down" problem, could quite possibly have the very same problem with the bike as those who have the "Bike wont stay on" issue, but are running a different battery firmware version.

Testing is ongoing as and when I can, but I have completed over 200 trouble free miles in raina dn snow with no shutdowns, no wierd power losses and in fact no dramas of any kind since that firmware update. At time of update I had a bike that wouldnt stay powered up. Now the same bike needs the battery removing to power it down, but it no longer shuts down during a ride ever and prior to firmware update I was very lucky to get 10 miles out of it without a shutdown issue.

Annoyingly, I came off the bike up on Skiddaw a few weeks ago and have been off the bike since with a busted knee.
Hoping to try a gentle one this weekend.

Conclusion:
GIANT Battery firmwares all respond differently to wiring issues on the bike and the latest firmwares are likely to solve a LOT of problems for people. My "powers down and wont power up" has been eliminated with a battery firmware upgrade.

The very oldest firmwares are fine as far as I can tell (2018/2019), as are the newest (Mid 21on), but the ones in the middle caused issues with the poor GIANT wiring as far as I can see.

I will be back at some point with a list of battery firmware differences when I have figured out how best to represent them.

 

[jeanmarc]

How can someone choose and install a specific firmware version ?

 

[Evolution Stu]

How can someone choose and install a specific firmware version ?

Your GIANT dealer can arrange for you to ship the batteries back to GIANT who can update them for you.
If you are lucky, you may be able to get a rep to do it at the shop for you.

I was lucky, but my local GIANT dealer is absolutely outstanding it has to be said. (GIANT Blackpool)

 

[cappuccino34]

My bike is in bits (again) Stu so if you want to try my battery on your bike your welcome to.

I've found a solution to all my Giant garbage firmware problems, I've bought a different bike.

 

[Evolution Stu]

My bike is in bits (again) Stu so if you want to try my battery on your bike your welcome to.

I've found a solution to all my Giant garbage firmware problems,
I've bought a different bike.

Thanks pal,
I have three mates with the same battery style so we have been able to collate lots of data now, indeed it’s them that led me down this path in the first place and had me considering firmware. Its taken quite some investigation with Giant to prove myself correct.

I’ve also a few other mates who soloved their giant problems the same way as you.
Can’t blame you at all.☺

 

[cappuccino34]

I don't think I could inflict someone else with the curse of this bike so I'm using it as a bit of a development donkey.

I could do with a spare motor cover if you know anyone with a knackered motor who might spare a cover? The round one on the left side, held on with three Allen key screws. It wouldn't matter if it was a bit damaged even.

 

[Evolution Stu]

I could do with a spare motor cover if you know anyone with a knackered motor who might spare a cover? The round one on the left side, held on with three Allen key screws. It wouldn't matter if it was a bit damaged even.

If you can wait a while consider yourself sorted.
I will be replacing mine soon. All intact, just scruffy.

 

[cappuccino34]

It's a water ingress protection thing I'm working on, so if it works you might want to do the same.

 

[cappuccino34]

If it does work I'll get new covers made with the modification included.

 

[jeanmarc]

I don't think I could inflict someone else with the curse of this bike so I'm using it as a bit of a development donkey.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Sounds interesting mate. I look forwasrd to seeing / hearing more details.

I am renewing mine for the simple reason I tested out siliconing the case to the frame and it worked well so I am buying 3 new ones and then siliconing them on after my new Giant loom is installed. (New Giant part no: too so they have actually changed something in there...)

You in much rush? I can adjust my ordering time to suit if you are.
Failing that I expect to be on the job in the next 14 days.

 

[cappuccino34]

Sounds interesting mate. I look forwasrd to seeing / hearing more details.

I am renewing mine for the simple reason I tested out siliconing the case to the frame and it worked well so I am buying 3 new ones and then siliconing them on after my new Giant loom is installed. (New Giant part no: too so they have actually changed something in there...)

You in much rush? I can adjust my ordering time to suit if you are.
Failing that I expect to be on the job in the next 14 days.

I'm probably just going to get a cover scanned, the design changes made and a prototype CNCd.

You'll love the simplicity of it, I promise.

 

[Evolution Stu]

I am certainly intrigued pal!

 

[Marecki]

Hello,
just small update regarding my Trance issues. Last December engine and wiring were replaced due to unexpected shut offs. Since then I rode about 600 kilometers without any problems. Hope they gone for good. I will keep you updated. My bike is Giant Trance X E+ Pro 2 29 2021, battery hardware version is 2020461217 and battery software 17PF.
With regards,
Marek

 

[Evolution Stu]

I'm probably just going to get a cover scanned, the design changes made and a prototype CNCd.

You'll love the simplicity of it, I promise.

Hello mate,
Did you ever make any progress with this?
I’ve been racking my brains for where someone wanted coves and just happened across the topic I had forgotten all about until chatting to Pete at PLB this week about my motor!

I have the covers in the garage if you want them.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Morning folks,
well, it’s now been 9 months and I have actually managed to kill a motors bearings through 1300 miles of actual riding, off road, with no electrical problems whatsoever. My friend with the same bike shutdown issues has also done maybe 2/3rds of that mileage with me, also with no shutdown problems.

Given i had these problems every 10 - 20 miles for 3 damn years, I think I can conclude that Giant battery firmware was the cause of my shutdown problem. (Even if it was in response to moisture somewhere)

From the data I have collated, people want to be looking at their battery firmware as follows:

625wh
This firmware is fixed from version 2317 onwards. (I had 1710)

500Wh
This firmware is fixed from version 2518. (I had 168)
Firmwares up to 155 on the 500wh seemed to be ok anyway. (Earl 2019 we think)

NOTE
These are all Giant app reported numbers. To make life harder, the Giant shop software reports the firmware differently, in a byte format. Example:
Firmware 1710 on the app = version 0x11 on the shops software.
Firmware 2317 on the app = 0x17 on the shops software.
Firmware 168 on the app = 0x10 on the shops software.
(Thinking aloud, I noted that the first 2 digits of the app version number, minus 6 was the 0x number in firmwares I saw.

I hope this info is of some value to someone as it cost me a lot of time, stress, money and ruined trips away for a couple of years with no apology from Giant, although I must say a massive thanks to Giant Blackpool for his help lately (none of this is his fault) and Pete at the ebike motor center for his sterling work recently overhauling my motor.

Now, hopefully back to Glentress and a winter of this…

 

[cappuccino34]

Hello mate,
Did you ever make any progress with this?
I’ve been racking my brains for where someone wanted coves and just happened across the topic I had forgotten all about until chatting to Pete at PLB this week about my motor!

I have the covers in the garage if you want them.

Hi Stu.
Yes, I've done doing what I was doing and proved it works so I'm at the point where I need to decide whether to stump up the money for a patent or not.
The gamble for me is whether any motor manufacturers would pay a few pence per unit to use the idea or whether they're happier paying for water ingress warranty claims. Getting a patent isn't a cheap exercise, at least not in the UK it isn't, but it would be a shame for my efforts to go to waste.
At the moment the side cover just has the holes sealed up with a plate bonded on with 1215, so a fresh cover would be useful if you have a spare one please?

 

[cappuccino34]

Morning folks,
well, it’s now been 9 months and I have actually maned to kill a motors bearings with 1300 miles of riding off road and no electrical problems. my friend with the same issues has done maybe 2/3rds of that mileage, also with no shutdown problems.

Given i had these problems every 10 - 20 miles for 3 damn years, I think I can conclude that Giant battery firmware was my shutdown problem. (Even if it was in response to moisture somewhere)

From the data I have collated, people want to be looking at their 625wh battery firmware and hoping they have version 2317 or higher. (I had 1710)

firmwares up to 155 on the 500wh seemed to be ok But the newer, fixed firmware is a 2518. (I had 168)

These are all Giant app reported numbers as, to make life harder, the Giant shop software reports the firmware differently in a byte format. Example:
1710 = 0x11
2317 = 0x17
168 = 0x10
(Thinking aloud, I noted that the first 2 digits of the app version number, minus 6 was the 0x number in firmwares I saw.

I hope this info is of some value to someone as it cost me a lot of time and money for a couple of years with no apology from Giant, although I must say a massive thanks to Giant Blackpool for his help (none of this is his fault) and Pete at the ebike motor center for his sterling work recently overhauling my motor.

now, hopefully back to this…
View attachment 100706

I've had no shutdown issues for ages now, not since the last update. That said, I've not ridden it much whilst I've been developing my little idea. Plus I've got the Fulgur Mula to ride now which is just in another league entirely so I ride that most of the time.

I never checked to see what the wife's firmware was in her previous battery which (eventually) got replaced under warranty. It's been fine since it was replaced but, again, she hasn't ridden it much. Before replacement it would break down very regularly. Ruined a couple of mini holidays that did.

 

[cappuccino34]

Morning folks,
well, it’s now been 9 months and I have actually maned to kill a motors bearings with 1300 miles of riding off road and no electrical problems. my friend with the same issues has done maybe 2/3rds of that mileage, also with no shutdown problems.

Given i had these problems every 10 - 20 miles for 3 damn years, I think I can conclude that Giant battery firmware was my shutdown problem. (Even if it was in response to moisture somewhere)

From the data I have collated, people want to be looking at their 625wh battery firmware and hoping they have version 2317 or higher. (I had 1710)

firmwares up to 155 on the 500wh seemed to be ok But the newer, fixed firmware is a 2518. (I had 168)

These are all Giant app reported numbers as, to make life harder, the Giant shop software reports the firmware differently in a byte format. Example:
1710 = 0x11
2317 = 0x17
168 = 0x10
(Thinking aloud, I noted that the first 2 digits of the app version number, minus 6 was the 0x number in firmwares I saw.

I hope this info is of some value to someone as it cost me a lot of time and money for a couple of years with no apology from Giant, although I must say a massive thanks to Giant Blackpool for his help (none of this is his fault) and Pete at the ebike motor center for his sterling work recently overhauling my motor.

now, hopefully back to this…
View attachment 100706

PMs sent. See what you think?

 

[Evolution Stu]

At the moment the side cover just has the holes sealed up with a plate bonded on with 1215, so a fresh cover would be useful if you have a spare one please?

Of course,
Im going home for lunch, PM me your address and I will get the whole set of 3 fired out to you this afternoon.

Thanks for the PM, replied over there to keep this topic clean.

 

[Evolution Stu]

I thought this was a great time to pop back and say that a full year of riding later the random shutdown problems never came back. The bike was faultless until I had the dreaded torque sensor error with my latest motor.

I now have another new motor installed (at my cost sadly… warranty expired) and the bikes riding just fine each and every week. That two years of ruined rides, days and weekend trips was 100% caused by the battery firmware.

Hope this topic continues to help other people.

 

[cappuccino34]

Glad it's sorted Stu.
Touching wood, mine's been ok too since, but I barely ride it these days with having other bikes to play on.

 

[O'l Timer]

Likewise...really glad you sorted it. But I think your subconsciously a little upset that the quest to sort the problem is over...lol. You have invested a lot of investigative work and money into a problem that really should have been sorted by the Giant boffins. I have perversely been following your thread into the Firmware issue, and contributed a small input, and must admire your bulldog spirit in sorting the issue. I would have gone for a different make long before........just to be able to ride the bike. Glad my bike is ......touch wood....pretty reliable and am able to pedal away to my hearts content. Well done again.

 

[malc101]

Great job sorting it out for Giant. It’s still hard to believe that Giant took the Yamaha motor that’s is on just about every bike ridden in Japan for the past 15 years and screwed it up. If you ever look at the CANBUS traffic on this bike you’ll see firmware development at its worst. If I recall there are 19 message types compared to much fewer on specialized. Having been involved with lots of firmware development I’d say that’s a disaster. It’s probably why they can’t get their app to work either.