Giant reign 2022 frame cracking

[PetriKarj]

@Spudley could you post pictures inside the frame for both bikes just to check if pressure welding is faulty or not. Recall you saying that your wifeys bike is not riden yet and it already has a crack in paint.

 

[Mikerb]

A mate of mine has heard from his bike shop.
The latest is that Giant have used Aluminium filler aver the top of the weld if there is one? That’s why they are so smooth!

The LBS is talking rubbish. An Aluminium filler is the rod that is melted into the weld not something added to cover a weld.

A good weld consists of a pool of molten metal which is a mix of the edges of the two parts being mated and the filler. The molten pool is typically "stitched" in terms of the welder torch movement , hence the classic wave shape of a good weld. The aluminium filler has to be chosen to match as close as possible the sections to be jointed...typically a 4000 series filler to weld 6000 series ally. The molten filler when mixed with the molten sections of tubing create a chemical reaction.............wrong filler can result in the weld being highly prone to cracking even immediately as the weld solidifies.
Nb no weld is as strong as the materials being welded. Hence it is normal to create a fairly thick weld line lapped sufficiently onto each mating face and a voiding any undercutting of the mating tubes.

I believe these frames are most probably robot welded on a production line so it is entirely feasible that a batch of frames was made with the wrong filler rods loaded into the welding robots.

None of the a bove answers the question about what welding technique is being used that ends up with the welded joint being invisible.

 

[Spudley]

That's good then. Means they haven't grinded it down. So have they established it's just flex then?

Aluminium

The LBS is talking rubbish. An Aluminium filler is the rod that is melted into the weld not something added to cover a weld.

A good weld consists of a pool of molten metal which is a mix of the edges of the two parts being mated and the filler. The molten pool is typically "stitched" in terms of the welder torch movement , hence the classic wave shape of a good weld. The aluminium filler has to be chosen to match as close as possible the sections to be jointed...typically a 4000 series filler to weld 6000 series ally. The molten filler when mixed with the molten sections of tubing create a chemical reaction.............wrong filler can result in the weld being highly prone to cracking even immediately as the weld solidifies.
Nb no weld is as strong as the materials being welded. Hence it is normal to create a fairly thick weld line lapped sufficiently onto each mating face and a voiding any undercutting of the mating tubes.

I believe these frames are most probably robot welded on a production line so it is entirely feasible that a batch of frames was made with the wrong filler rods loaded into the welding robots.

None of the a bove answers the question about what welding technique is being used that ends up with the welded joint being invisible.

FYI my lbs says this area is hydroformed not welded.

 

[Spudley]

Hi

I'm out on it 4 times a week

Endorium I'm not saying you don't ride lots or hard, and I'm not trying to start a competition of who is the more aggressive rider... what I think I've failed to get across in my previous posts is our park has a chairlift so all my logged miles have been downhill as I've only 2 times ridden up the hill totalling probably 15km. I honestly don't need a motor for what I'm doing in just like ebikes.
I suspect rider input may have less affect on the bike now I understand your position and riding style or possibly I've just cased more landings.
All I'm doing is letting anyone in the forum understand my riding type, hence helping their decision in buying a reign. Honestly if I had read this before getting mine for the park I would have looked at other bikes.
I still have a deep love for this bike but I got such an amazing deal on the Norco and can't be without a bike whilst this gets sorted.
I Will be keeping a close eye on this forum and listening to what giant say with this bike moving forward as ideally I would love to keep it. I definitely don't want to be stuck in a frame replacement regular cycle and bikes are so hard to get I've covered my arse for now.
I'll keep everyone updated on how I'm treated and how fast things happen with /by giant.

 

[theMISSIONARY]

Aluminium

FYI my lbs says this area is hydroformed not welded.

your LBS is dodgy then, the "tube" is hydroformed but it is definitely welded.

to me it looks as tho they welded them and then smoothed off the welds to make them look more like carbon bikes.

I hate smoothed welds as it's the sort of thing apprentice welders(or poor welders) do to mask mistakes.

boilermaker/welder for over 30 years including building Aluminium ships.

Cheers Steve

 

[PetriKarj]

@Spudley I believe the correct term is ”Hydraulic pressure cold welding” where the pieces are welded together with high pressure rather than melting the pieces together with high temperature as by conventional welding. Using a wide mold for the outside and more sharper mold inside means that the outside of the frame does hot have any visible seams. On the other hand inside the frame you can see clear edges from the mold pressing the aluminium pieces together.

 

[Endorium]

I think we can all agree, no-one has any actual idea what's going on or the cause. Also why it happens to some and not others. Just have to wait on giants response. Presume people have contacted them?

 

[emtbeast]

I think we can all agree, no-one has any actual idea what's going on or the cause. Also why it happens to some and not others. Just have to wait on giants response. Presume people have contacted them?

Mine does not have any visible damage on the inside, can't see it from the outside as I have it wrapped.
I did though after checking for some rattling tighten the bolts(those were loose) that hold part for battery connection on the frame.
Just thinking about it as it's at this spot could maybe this loosened part with the weight/pressure of the battery during riding create enough stress for these cracks to appear?

 

[LJR69]

Just checked mine and no crack, but I’ll be checking this after every ride from now! Thanks for heads up.

 

[Kevjob51]

I sent my LBS an email linking this thread and asked they pass it on to Giant rep. They called me and said if there are any issues Giant and or they will take care of it. It is one of the reasons I bought from my LBS.

 

[Endorium]

I sent my LBS an email linking this thread and asked they pass it on to Giant rep. They called me and said if there are any issues Giant and or they will take care of it. It is one of the reasons I bought from my LBS.

Same here. Luckily the local bike shop is a big dealer in giant so if I get issues, easy to sort. They seem to be still getting plenty of stock and have spares of various bits which is promising

 

[markoricho]

Mine does not have any visible damage on the inside, can't see it from the outside as I have it wrapped.
I did though after checking for some rattling tighten the bolts(those were loose) that hold part for battery connection on the frame.
Just thinking about it as it's at this spot could maybe this loosened part with the weight/pressure of the battery during riding create enough stress for these cracks to appear?

Was it top or bottom of battery that you tightened? I have a bad rattle that I can't find, sounds like its from the top of the battery but everthing seems tight. It's starting to get real annoying

 

[Mikerb]

@Spudley I believe the correct term is ”Hydraulic pressure cold welding” where the pieces are welded together with high pressure rather than melting the pieces together with high temperature as by conventional welding. Using a wide mold for the outside and more sharper mold inside means that the outside of the frame does hot have any visible seams. On the other hand inside the frame you can see clear edges from the mold pressing the aluminium pieces together.

interesting.............I know that technique can be used to join metals in rod or wire form but have not heard of it joining hollow tubes and I cannot see how the fused join could be "de-swarthed" since it is an irregular shape not cylindrical, neither are the 2 sections being joined in the same plane. The hydraulic pressure required would surely just destroy the downtube??

 

[emtbeast]

Was it top or bottom of battery that you tightened? I have a bad rattle that I can't find, sounds like its from the top of the battery but everthing seems tight. It's starting to get real annoying

It was the bottom part that had loose bolts, although I still do hear some rattling when going downhill or cross country, not sure if it's the chain or something else. The battery is fixed solid, I taped down the inside cables with wrapping foam, also put some rubber gasket seal on the battery cover, the outside cables have the spiral wrapper around them...I have no Idea where it's coming from...probably it is the chain but yes it's annoying

 

[Spudley]

It was the bottom part that had loose bolts, although I still do hear some rattling when going downhill or cross country, not sure if it's the chain or something else. The battery is fixed solid, I taped down the inside cables with wrapping foam, also put some rubber gasket seal on the battery cover, the outside cables have the spiral wrapper around them...I have no Idea where it's coming from...probably it is the chain but yes it's annoying

FYI my bike was near silent even with major crack in down tube.

 

[PetriKarj]

interesting.............I know that technique can be used to join metals in rod or wire form but have not heard of it joining hollow tubes and I cannot see how the fused join could be "de-swarthed" since it is an irregular shape not cylindrical, neither are the 2 sections being joined in the same plane. The hydraulic pressure required would surely just destroy the downtube??

Yes, its interesting how to achieve flat surface from joining two sheets together unless they have redesigned the frame completely by removing the welding area seen on earlier bikes. I am surprised how advanced Giant is in applying hydroforming to produce different parts of the bike, so dont see why this would not be possible (Hydroforming patent by Giant).

If you look at the bottom bracket for the battery you can see how pressure is applied there. To me this is an indication of hydralic pressure welding being used for the battery bracket. To me that bracket is there also to increase structural strenght of the that area. In one of the bikes with suspected crack you can see how pressure was applied unevenly and hence lost of some structural strenght. Anyhow using hydraulic pressure welding for sheets is surely possible and has some advantages over conventional welding (Link to academic paper of pressure welding aluminium sheets).

 

[RustyIron]

I think we can all agree, no-one has any actual idea what's going on

No, that's not true. There are a couple people here who have vast experience with materials, fabrication, and welding. That's the great thing about educating oneself: you become knowledgable in certain areas, so when you see something like the cracked Giant frames, you can conclude that it's a piece of sh... sh... shabby workmanship. Have you contacted Giant about your defective frame, so they can replace it before it breaks? Or are you comfortable just continuing to ride it gently and hoping for the best?

 

[Endorium]

No, that's not true. There are a couple people here who have vast experience with materials, fabrication, and welding. That's the great thing about educating oneself: you become knowledgable in certain areas, so when you see something like the cracked Giant frames, you can conclude that it's a piece of sh... sh... shabby workmanship. Have you contacted Giant about your defective frame, so they can replace it before it breaks? Or are you comfortable just continuing to ride it gently and hoping for the best?

My frame as.no cracks. My friends bikes dont either or the demo bikes at the bike shop. So clearly it's only very few it affects. As for riding gently, you have no idea what or how i ride I am at bike parks nearly every weekend and ride 3-4 times a week

 

[Kiteboy]

My only concern would be how long would it take to get a replacement. Curious to what Giant says to your mate. I am going to send an email to my Giant sales rep so he can ask Giant's opinion and to document the hairline crack. To my untrained eyes mine looks like a paint finish crack, your mates looks structural.

Ride dm can you take a pic of yours?

If yours is in the same place as the others then it is structural crack and breaking through the paint.

 

[Kiteboy]

I’ve found out today that two more giant reigns have these cracks! They are local to me. Not good

View attachment 88701

Giants are good bikes but this looks like a simple design flaw that the engineers didn't catch before production approval.

 

[Kiteboy]

All the pictures including the one a bove suggest that the down tube is welded at the site of the cracks to the frame section that carries the motor housing. Giant appear to have done an "Orbea" on the 2022 models with that weld (flattened the weld...which in my opinion weakens it). I far prefer the very visible weld in the picture of the red Reign above..........you can determine the quality of the weld. So I would guess that joint between the down tube and motor housing frame section is starting to fail. The crack is caused by movement on that joint. It may be superficial to start with but likely to get worse.

^^^
This

 

[Spudley]

From one review and some marketing hype I found online.......
Unique welding........
New technology not real world tested rigorously enough I suspect.

"" Giant claims unique welding technology gives the bike its ride quality. It features internally routed cables through the down tube and chainstays, and has a bottle cage mount inside the front triangle.""

 

[Spudley]

After reviewing many bikes after riding and enjoying this bike and having to replace it I suspect a nuke proof megawatt would be a better alternative for similar money and would ride similarly if not more playful from what I'm reading.
Mullet
Playful
Comparably priced
Better spec

If I don't like the Norco I'll be moving onto the nukeproof.

 

[Endorium]

From one review and some marketing hype I found online.......
Unique welding........
New technology not real world tested rigorously enough I suspect.

"" Giant claims unique welding technology gives the bike its ride quality. It features internally routed cables through the down tube and chainstays, and has a bottle cage mount inside the front triangle.""

Giant won't of invented anything new. Just reusing something another sector already uses. Be interesting to know what it is. Considering giant makes frames for most other manufacturers I wonder if it gets used on them all

 

[Mikerb]

Giant won't of invented anything new. Just reusing something another sector already uses. Be interesting to know what it is. Considering giant makes frames for most other manufacturers I wonder if it gets used on them all

If this article is anything to go by, giant do indeed use a bank of people to weld up a frame, so I was wrong to assume a robot assembly line. The factory is in Taiwan so presumably cheap labour makes the manual method possible. The weld technique shown here is TIG welding and the article ends by saying some welds are left "raw" whilst others are sanded down .

Inside Giant's Taiwan frame factory - part three - BikeRadar

 

[Endorium]

If this article is anything to go by, giant do indeed use a bank of people to weld up a frame, so I was wrong to assume a robot assembly line. The factory is in Taiwan so presumably cheap labour makes the manual method possible. The weld technique shown here is TIG welding and the article ends by saying some welds are left "raw" whilst others are sanded down .

Inside Giant's Taiwan frame factory - part three - BikeRadar

That article is 8 years old. May of completely changed since then

 

[Mikerb]

That article is 8 years old. May of completely changed since then

I know!!

 

[Ride.dm123]

This have come from bike shop.
Giant have confirmed that the issue is with a filler used over the top of the welding that is, under stress, flexing and then causing a paint crack, no structural issues. Giant have categorically stated the bike is safe to ride and they are currently pursuing long term solutions with the factory for anybody who has had this issue. They say it’s 100% safe to ride.
So at least we can ride the bike now!
Not sure what the long term fox is though!!

 

[Endorium]

This have come from bike shop.
Giant have confirmed that the issue is with a filler used over the top of the welding that is, under stress, flexing and then causing a paint crack, no structural issues. Giant have categorically stated the bike is safe to ride and they are currently pursuing long term solutions with the factory for anybody who has had this issue. They say it’s 100% safe to ride.
So at least we can ride the bike now!
Not sure what the long term fox is though!!

So all the panic for nothing. Always best to wait to hear from the manufacturer. It's not ideal if you have the cracking, but at least you can use it still which is great news for everyone
Thanks for letting us know

 

[goroncy]

I have Giant Reign E+0. I definitely have something going on there. The paint has a 1cm crack in the same place as everybody else here. It is exactly above this place:

Sorry for shitty picture but I just wanted to quickly share something. The thing I marked on a picture looks like a crack in a paint with a naked eye. What is underneath I don't know. But the amount of metal around is immense so I don't "stress" it right now (pun intended ). If it gets bigger maybe I'll go to LBS. But to be honest the geek in me want's to strip this paint and take a look.

To all the galls and guys with a big version of this crack. I wouldn't agree riding it even if Giant says it's fine. But it's just mine opinion.

It seems strange that this is visible also on brand new bikes, but also on bikes like mine that were "thoroughly tested". I took it on multiple jump lines in bike parks and also did some jibbing around my house. Hack to flat from 2 meters included.