Front DH Tyres Accurately Timed: Kryptotal vs Assegai vs Magic Mary vs Vigilante vs Plus+

[RoJo]

Last time I rode the top of Boomslang I was thinking about how to fit tank tracks to the bike .

You’ve got some really interesting results and given me a lot to think about - thanks for doing it! I’m a die-hard Conti fan* (Kryp F+R unless it’s peak summer then I’ll put a Xyn on the back and go sideways everywhere) but I’m finding BPW exceptionally slow running with a lot of surprise soft spots at the moment so I might give the WTBs a go next time I buy tyres.

What trail did you do the testing on? Sorry if I missed it in your video.

* have previous tried most Maxxis tyres and had a brief foray into Schwalbe with a Tacky Chan but that was super scary as soon as the ground dried up

Bottom of Boomslang is out of character with most other trails at BPW as you arrive at sloppy tech. I rode it in the first week and it was an incredible loamer, but that didn't last long with the traffic.
I did this testing on AC/DC as it is a trail of three parts, smooth bike park at top, tech through the woods, then faster sweeping berms and some unsupported corners at the bottom. This allowed me to look at the 3 sector times to see where each tyre performed best.
I'm curious to try another trail in South Wales to keep things interesting, but struggling to think of one that is a) worthy of DH tyres but not so hard that I can't do consistent laps b) includes a wide range of riding characteristics c) pushes the tyres to the limit at multiple points d) fairly consistent over a reasonable range of weather conditions.
Any ideas welcome...

 

[alleeex]

I'm curious to try another trail in South Wales to keep things interesting, but struggling to think of one that is a) worthy of DH tyres but not so hard that I can't do consistent laps b) includes a wide range of riding characteristics c) pushes the tyres to the limit at multiple points d) fairly consistent over a reasonable range of weather conditions.
Any ideas welcome...

Y mynydd or one of the off piste trails up Cwmcarn maybe? The DH race boys are up there all the time at the moment so you might be able to cadge a lift up top a few times too.

There are possibly a few candidates in Clyne Woods (Swansea) or a second secret woods in the Llanelli area but there’s no decent stretch of hard pack if you want a real mix of surfaces.

 

[Who’s There]

Go crazy mate, mix those brands up

Just put a Super Deluxe Ultimate RCT+ coil on the rear of my Husky, the Durolux on the front is fortunately blacked out but my cringe is high! Not quite ready to give up on the Durolux just yet though, works great when I’m going at my limit, but when I slow down to body saving speed it beats the crap outa me. But eventually I will need a coil converted Zeb to be at peace
Back to tires- I seem to basically look for the heaviest, softest model in a series, might not be the smartest approach. The WTB SG1 series has some big numbers, a Judge at 1621g and a Vigilante at 1575g, both tough/high grip. They’re a bit narrow at 2.4 and 2.5 respectively but I’d bet you could slam them without regard into anything. No idea how that much tire would effect speed or feel.
Probably won’t give those a go, don’t have the terrain or the wild abandon necessary for that burly of tire, just like knowing they’re out there. The Vigi I’ve got waiting in the wings is the same one you tested. I will order the companion 27.5 2.6 tough high grip after I test out the front one to make sure it works well in my neck of the woods.
I’ve got a front rim I should replace soon because I kawanged it out of shape pretty good(Butcher did not go flat!) and pulled it back into round enough after replacing all the spoke nipples(popped a couple of heads off so replaced them all) and I’m trying to decide if I’m going to put a 35mm internal rim on to replace the 30, it already has a 35 wide rim on the rear. Curious to see the difference in feel with the wider stance. Unfortunately there is no way to match the branding of the OE spec rear rim….

 

[JP-NZ]

Appreciate the hard work @RoJo thanks.

Big fan of the Assegai maxxgrip DH casing on the front of both my Ebbs

 

[shadowfacts]

Tldr spoiler:
I did A-B-A testing on each day aiming to get in 5 quality laps before swapping tyre, then 5 laps, swapping back again and another 5 laps.

Timing was done by picking the exact GoPro frame where I crossed a specific feature on the trail, e.g. tree, rock, post etc so that I could get accurate timing to 1/60th sec and construct a perfect lap taking the best from each sector.

The results often surprised me and I think "feel" can be misleading. The Assegai for example felt epic, but in the data it is slower in every sector.

View attachment 153444 View attachment 153445

The trend in the chart above strongly suggests that you simply got faster riding the same track for 6 days in a row.

Even on the same tire, your pace improves day over day. Unfortunately, since tire/day was not a controlled variable, I tend to think that the "slow" tires would have been "fast" tires (or at least mid-pack), had you tested them on day 6 rather than day 1.

 

[RoJo]

The trend in the chart above strongly suggests that you simply got faster riding the same track for 6 days in a row.

Even on the same tire, your pace improves day over day. Unfortunately, since tire/day was not a controlled variable, I tend to think that the "slow" tires would have been "fast" tires (or at least mid-pack), had you tested them on day 6 rather than day 1.

Hi, yep for sure I got a lot quicker, and I can't pretend that there aren't dozens of flaws in my testing.

The reason I stuck to the A-B-A format on each day is so that I could get a fair compare of two tyres when I'm riding a similar pace in similar weather. The summary table is based on deltas from each test day, not directly comparing day 1 with day 6. It is a bit iffy adding these deltas to compare say Mary Vs Assegai when all I have is a common baseline of Mary Vs Vigi and Assegai Vs Vigi on another day.

However, I think there are some reasonable conclusions and that is that Mary, Assegai and Kryptotal are similar pace (when compared to Vigi on their respective days) and the noise doesn't allow me to pick a clear winner, even though I preferred Assegai for confidence and Conti least for harsh ride.

Vigi kicked ass because it managed to stay on as test winner. I also analysed sector times to see that it was rolling resistance where this tyre has a consistent advantage in the flatter sections.

Plus sized tyres are fast but hard to control with high standard deviation.

Low grip compounds and thin casings are challenging.

However, these conclusions could be wrong... there is a reason why randomised drug trials cost millions of pounds! Tyre testing is a tricky subject and I'm sure there will be some surprises along the way, but I wanted to at least attempt it because I'm tired of sponsored riders telling me to buy a tyre without even comparing it to the alternatives.

Next up is Albert Vs Assegai, and I've got another battery on order so hopefully I can get even more runs on this in a day.

 

[shadowfacts]

Hi, yep for sure I got a lot quicker, and I can't pretend that there aren't dozens of flaws in my testing.

The reason I stuck to the A-B-A format on each day is so that I could get a fair compare of two tyres when I'm riding a similar pace in similar weather. The summary table is based on deltas from each test day, not directly comparing day 1 with day 6. It is a bit iffy adding these deltas to compare say Mary Vs Assegai when all I have is a common baseline of Mary Vs Vigi and Assegai Vs Vigi on another day.

However, I think there are some reasonable conclusions and that is that Mary, Assegai and Kryptotal are similar pace (when compared to Vigi on their respective days) and the noise doesn't allow me to pick a clear winner, even though I preferred Assegai for confidence and Conti least for harsh ride.

Vigi kicked ass because it managed to stay on as test winner. I also analysed sector times to see that it was rolling resistance where this tyre has a consistent advantage in the flatter sections.

Plus sized tyres are fast but hard to control with high standard deviation.

Low grip compounds and thin casings are challenging.

However, these conclusions could be wrong... there is a reason why randomised drug trials cost millions of pounds! Tyre testing is a tricky subject and I'm sure there will be some surprises along the way, but I wanted to at least attempt it because I'm tired of sponsored riders telling me to buy a tyre without even comparing it to the alternatives.

Next up is Albert Vs Assegai, and I've got another battery on order so hopefully I can get even more runs on this in a day.

It's true, doing any sort of well controlled experiment is difficult. It's interesting to hear your thoughts on the subjective ride experience, regardless of which one was faster. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the Albert.

I just picked up an albert for my downhill bike, and I'm curious about how it will ride. The knobs compress into the tire noticeably easier, even at slightly higher psi than the Assegai.

 

[irie]

Next up is Albert Vs Assegai, and I've got another battery on order so hopefully I can get even more runs on this in a day.

And please also include High Roller 3