Ep801 solution

[Cleggy]

As far as I can remember it's all undoable by the user, and once back to normal won't be detectable by a shop or dealer. I'm sure that's what the guy told me, no idea how to do it though.

Once back to normal you'd have to pay them to fix it again, minus the cost of the license fee as that lasts for ever.

Have you been in contact with e-max? I found them really easy to deal with, they answered all my questions and explained the process well.

of course that is what they tell us - they want our money - but what im asking is has anyone any first hand experience with shimano or a bike shop to confirm their sales pitch?

I did contact them a while back for confirmation of how it works (PCE02 and windows PC) unfortunately I have no Windows PC since switching to Mac many many years ago

 

[Fielonator]

Ah ok. Mine hasn't had a problem so far, just been lots of fun.

 

[Backflip]

Can any of you with a derestricted EP801 confirm whether or not this is detectable by Shimano and Bike shops?

I'm growing increasingly frustrated with the UK limit of 15mph but my motor is still under warranty for another 19 months so very reluctant to proceed with emax

Once derestricted remotely by them can we then roll it back to standard ourselves or does that require yet another remote connection session?

If another remote connection session does that also incur another fee?

Ideally this would be a plug n play hardware solution but for some reason this seems to not be possible on the EP801

You can reset your bike fully to unmodified factory settings by yourself (you don´t need a remote control session for this).
However, you definitely need a PCE2 interface and a Windows computer for this (this is also the gear you need to do the optimization via remote control session).
Before doing the remote control session via EMAX I was reading a lot of the forums posts in the German Pedelecforum regarding the tuning process and I think these guys have a perfect reputation and don´t want to ruin this for just "taking your money".
The creators of this tuning software actively take part in this German forum very frequently and if there is any question, the will mostly reply quite speedy in this forum (also in English language) and also via email.
Unfortunately they don´t take part in this forum here, but regarding this topic they wrote to me, that they are lacking time to do some additonal work in english spoken bike platforms, but maybe will do in the future.
There are a lot of users who already had brought back their once before optimized bikes to the bikes shop and if you did the reset in the proper way, there never had been any problem or risk with any warranty issue related to "unautorized modification".
So, to me these guys seem that they don´t just claim anything about this "warranty issue", they seem to take this topic quite seriously, otherwise their reputation will not be that good and they maybe would be out of business very soon if they would claim false statements (and it seems they are in this "Shimano" business since many years already).
I don´t want to force you to do anything with your bike and respect your "anxiety" regarding warranty, but if you wait until your bke is out of warranty (which normally will be in 2 years), your bike is quite old and there most probably will be already the next generation drive unit. So, regarding this, you can wait forever to speed up your bike...
However, my decision was well done - I definitely don´t regret it and I am still very happy with my modified bike. No errors - just fun.

 

[Tombie]

Bugger the warranty!

Why put up with something that’s making you unhappy for 2 years?

In context, (I’m not on my high horse, I’d possibly do it). Modifying something beyond spec, and then having a failure - and reverting it back and saying it hadn’t been used outside design - is fraud/dishonest.

I’d be pissed if I designed something, offered a warranty, and it was used beyond my design and failed and then the purchaser wanted it replaced for free.

So I get it….


But just bite the damn bullet, set it up like you want it and enjoy. Done it to my bikes, motorbikes, 4x4s, road cars etc for years.

 

[luna87824]

Bugger the warranty!

Why put up with something that’s making you unhappy for 2 years?

In context, (I’m not on my high horse, I’d possibly do it). Modifying something beyond spec, and then having a failure - and reverting it back and saying it hadn’t been used outside design - is fraud/dishonest.

I’d be pissed if I designed something, offered a warranty, and it was used beyond my design and failed and then the purchaser wanted it replaced for free.

So I get it….


But just bite the damn bullet, set it up like you want it and enjoy. Done it to my bikes, motorbikes, 4x4s, road cars etc for years.

Is the class 3 ep801 more prone to failure than the same ep801 used and restricted in the UK? Same motor different programming!

 

[Backflip]

As far as I know (reading forum posts in the German Pedelecforum), the EP801-EU (max. 25km/h), the EP801-US (32km/h - 20mph) and the EP801-US-class3 (45km/h - 28mph) are mechanically and electrically absolutely identical drive units and also use the same motor firmware from Shimano. These 3 motor types are only preprogrammed for different max. speeds from Shimano shortly after production. So, the class 3 drive unit should be no more prone to failure in general from its nature. However, for sure if you use any motor (also in a car) with higher speeds, then most probably gearing and ball bearing may suffer a bit more and so the overall lifespan may be lower than using the same unit with less speeds all the times.

 

[Fielonator]

Cleggy, have you tried a derestricted emtb of any kind? Just wondering as that was the clincher for me.

Once I'd experienced the goodness of the full potential of these bikes there was no way I wasn't having that for myself.

 

[Cleggy]

Cleggy, have you tried a derestricted emtb of any kind? Just wondering as that was the clincher for me.

Once I'd experienced the goodness of the full potential of these bikes there was no way I wasn't having that for myself.

not yet mate and a lot of the time I don't need it derestricted cos the trails have enough negative gradient

but some trails the limiter kicks in on a flat run in to a jump (very dangerous) and I've struggled to clear the jump due to lack of speed and or technique

but the other day i went to my local for the first time in 15 months (I avoid it cos its flat and pedally), it is flat as, definitely more suited to an XC bike but I only have the eeb now so I ride what I have and even in boost which i next to never use i just could not pedal past the speed restrictor

getting it derestricted makes sense but its costly, need to buy/hire the dongle, then the €119 fee and then buy or borrow someones winDOZE pc and finally need to bring the bike inside the house to do it cos theres no internet out in the garage

and then the hassle of reverting it to standard if the motor needs to go back (5 months old and already one error logged though its a battery connection issue rather than the motor)

and another fee to derestrict again when the motor would come back from repair/replacement

but yeah I think biting the bullet and getting it done is the only realistic option because that throwing the anchor out feeling when you hit 15mph is just not what riding an MTB is all about

 

[PTaroni]

I have just had mine de restricted this evening by Emax after purchasing a pce02 and can highly recommend! they even set my fine tune settings after I messed them up!
I will be renting out my pce02 local to loughborough Leicestershire. On a collect and drop off basis.

 

[Fielonator]

not yet mate and a lot of the time I don't need it derestricted cos the trails have enough negative gradient

but some trails the limiter kicks in on a flat run in to a jump (very dangerous) and I've struggled to clear the jump due to lack of speed and or technique

but the other day i went to my local for the first time in 15 months (I avoid it cos its flat and pedally), it is flat as, definitely more suited to an XC bike but I only have the eeb now so I ride what I have and even in boost which i next to never use i just could not pedal past the speed restrictor

getting it derestricted makes sense but its costly, need to buy/hire the dongle, then the €119 fee and then buy or borrow someones winDOZE pc and finally need to bring the bike inside the house to do it cos theres no internet out in the garage

and then the hassle of reverting it to standard if the motor needs to go back (5 months old and already one error logged though its a battery connection issue rather than the motor)

and another fee to derestrict again when the motor would come back from repair/replacement

but yeah I think biting the bullet and getting it done is the only realistic option because that throwing the anchor out feeling when you hit 15mph is just not what riding an MTB is all about

Time to shit or get off the potty mate.

 

[Cleggy]

agreed

 

[Superhans71]

I have just had mine de restricted this evening by Emax after purchasing a pce02 and can highly recommend! they even set my fine tune settings after I messed them up!
I will be renting out my pce02 local to loughborough Leicestershire. On a collect and drop off basis.

Hey mate, I can’t find one of these in stock anywhere. Would you consider a rental by post? I’m sure we could do some kind of PayPal deposit or something.
The 15mph limit is bloody dangerous in the bike park when it kicks in before hitting jumps. Really need it gone!

 

[Cleggy]

In stock on uk amazon

 

[franciscoasismm]

Hey mate, I can’t find one of these in stock anywhere. Would you consider a rental by post? I’m sure we could do some kind of PayPal deposit or something.
The 15mph limit is bloody dangerous in the bike park when it kicks in before hitting jumps. Really need it gone!

www.bike-discount.de

 

[Superhans71]

Nice one. Nothing in UK anywhere, will try these guys. Cheers fella

 

[Unfortunatecookie]

Hello. So to get the emax (ideally 32 km/h) tuning I just need the pce interface and pc and I’m set ?

It’s frustrating to have the wall hitting at 25 specially just before a jump. Even in eco mode I could do it.


Thanks.

 

[Cleggy]

Hello. So to get the emax (ideally 32 km/h) tuning I just need the pce interface and pc and I’m set ?

It’s frustrating to have the wall hitting at 25 specially just before a jump. Even in eco mode I could do it.


Thanks.

Yes I believe so, plus 119 Euro

 

[Backflip]

Hello. So to get the emax (ideally 32 km/h) tuning I just need the pce interface and pc and I’m set ?

It’s frustrating to have the wall hitting at 25 specially just before a jump. Even in eco mode I could do it.


Thanks.

Just write an email to the guys from EMAX and they most probably will reply soon and explain everything you need to know. AFAIK, you need the newer PCE02 interface with the correct adapter cable with the small plug and the older PCE1 type will not work.

 

[Cleggy]

Dear Derek,

thank you for your interest in the eMax / miniMax / eMaxMobileApp software!



Just in a nutshell: There will be definitely no chance to speed up any DU-EP801 based bike solely via Bluetooth also in the future!

So, for speeding up such a bike, you will always need a cable bound SM-PCE02 interface, a Windows based computer, our miniMax – program and a bike related licence key. You can get such an interface in many online bike shops (see e.g. here) or there are some clever people who rent these devices on a daily basis in the internet.



Regarding the new generation drive units EP801 (DU-EP801) and EP6 (DU-EP600) and its variants “-RS” (Riders Synergy for Orbea) and “-CRG” (Cargo) =>



Things that will NOT work:

Using an external electronic hardware box (like SpeedBox, MBIQ, BadAss, RedPad, PearTune …) will definitely not work on this new generation drive unit (EP801/EP6) and will generate E295 and finally E299 errors after riding just a few kilometres and finally will completely block the motor support! In this case Shimano has to unlock the drive unit and this is a highly time and money consuming process.

Also you will never get rid of the E299 and so your bike most probably is already flagged for out of warranty for a lifetime, even if the drive unit was unlocked again by Shimano.



There is and will not be any possibility to change the destination from EU (25km/h) to US (32km/h) for this new generation motors (like it was possible with our software for previous Shimano STePS drive units) because Shimano now produces and sells different production versions of the drive unit which are only sold for the US – market. So it is no more possible to change the destination country after the production cycle.



There is and will not be any possibility to change the wheel circumference to speed up the bike for this new generation motors (like it was possible with our software for previous Shimano STePS drive units) because Shimano now blocks changing the wheel circumference after 3 attempts permanently. So, our software is able to modify the wheel circumference also for this new generation drive units, but we will not release this feature, because this will ruin our perfect reputation, because for sure the drive unit of some users will get stuck exactly in the moment when a biker has programmed a very low (not realistic) wheel circumference (like the minimum value of 1300mm) to speed up his bike and then will be trapped also and permanently flagged as “warranty voided” when going to the bike shop the next time.



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There is worldwide no other tuning for a bike with this new drive units than our eMax-Tuning system availableand Shimano claims that it is not possible to optimize this drive unit!

All external “dongles” will create E295 and E299 errors and will lock the drive unit, see also this German forum post of us.



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Regarding increasing max. torque and max. peak power on “RS” drive units on Orbea bikes:

With the latest version 2.41 of our Windows based minimax program (see at the end of this email) and a cable bound PCE interface you are able to unleash the full potential (85Nm max. torque and 600W peak power for the EP801-RS or 500W peak power for the EP6-RS) of a 2023 Orbea bike.

This functionality is delivered free of charge from us (so already in the licence key free mode), see also this German forum post of us.

You can get such an interface in many online bikeshops – take care, maybe also need some additional adapters and cables to connect the interface, see chapter 3 in this document.

So, if you want to get the full potential of the EP801-RS (officially DU-EP801-RS) or EP6-RS (officially DU-EP600-RS) drive unit, best is to get a PCE – interface and use our Windows based miniMax – program.



With the latest version 1.70 of the Bluetooth based eMaxMobileApp (for iOS and Android) this functionality is also already supported.



Take care: Please always reset the values to the standard EP801-RS / EP6-RS settings before bringing the bike to the bike shop, otherwise you might void your warranty!



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Regarding increasing max. motor support speed on EP801 and EP6 drive units (including “RS” and “CRG” – versions):

We also already have found the first worldwide solution to speed up the new generation Shimano STePS drive units up to max. 50km/h with correct indication of all values on the bike display, however, currently this will be possible in our office in Germany, see (and maybe translate) this German forum post of us.



We also try very hard to create an official end user solution for this type of tuning, but this may also take some more time.

If you have access to a cable bound SM-PCE02 – interface we are able to speed up your bike also via a remote control session of your Windows computer with attached bike…

The price for the personal service for a single remote control session including the bike related licence key (which is necessary to speed up the bike) will be 119€ (incl. 19% VAT).



For sure any modification like our tuning will void warranty and if you don´t reset the bike back to the original state, your warranty most probably will be gone.

However, with our tuning possibilities you are able to bring the bike back to the original state (without any traces of any previous modifications left) and so you will not get any problems with any warranty claim.



See also chapter 12 of this document.



So, best is to get access to a cable bound PCE02 interface first and then to contact us again.



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Things to know:

You always should reset the bike to the complete unmodified state if you will bring the bike to a regular bikeshop (or Shimano), otherwise you may void warranty!

With a PCE02 – interface it is quite easy to reset your EP801/EP6 based bike to this original state by your own.

However, to speed up the bike again after such a “reset” we currently need to do another remote control session (at least as long as there is no “official” software from us publicly available to do this). For sure we don´t charge full fee for this additional service, however, if we have to do this again we have to charge a (small) fee for the service (we will discuss if you really need this – I just wanted to mention this). Hopefully if you need this we finally have released a software with which you don´t need our personals remote assistance any more…



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Regarding the necessary PCE interface:

You can get this necessary cable bound PCE interface (you need to get the newer SM-PCE02 type) in many online bike shops.

Depending on the type of display your bike has and the packaging version of the interface, maybe some additional adapter and cable is necessary, see chapter 3 in this document.



If your bike has no dedicated display and is fitted just with the SW-EN600-L remote control on your left side handle bar, then best is to additionally get a EW-JC304 quadruple adapter and an additional EW-SD300 cable to connect the interface close to the SW-EN600-L, otherwise you may (depending on the bike frame which sometimes covers the upper part on the drive unit, especially on Orbea bikes) need to dismantle (or at least lower) the drive unit to connect the interface at the drive unit which is really extremely time consuming.



Here is a schematic on how to connect the PCE – interface to your bike when there is no display connected:







However, if your bike is fitted with a dedicated display (SC-EN600, SC-EN610, SC-EM800, SC-E7000), then this display has several receptacles already and you can connect the PCE - interface directly to the display.



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Don´t hesitate to ask if there are some more questions – we like to assist and help on 7 days a week.



Best regards,



Markus from the eMax - team

 

[wenna]

We also try very hard to create an official end user solution for this type of tuning, but this may also take some more time.

This is released with the latest miniMax version 2.50

 

[sandy raw]

Hi, I'm from Belgium
And I have an ORBEA rise H10
Markus is great!
he responds almost like a bot H24
except that he's a real person

on the rise you install a screen (EN610) in 5min

you pay 119€ to markus you install your shimano PCE2 kit on your shimano screen & on your pc via usb in (1min)
ANY DESK run !
And then markus to make the injection is so simple
25min after you orbea RISE is a real rocket

And I have a 19kilo gravel bike with a debrid engine ananda 80nm
and a VTT with ananda M100 (110/120/130nm!).

And I can tell you that the ORBEA is twice as powerful and pleasant! it's a real killer!

The only hitch is the damned 32 tooth chainring.
okkkk we can put a 34toooth (limit)

But the orbea rise with a 38 tooth chainring would be a motorbike

 

[franciscoasismm]

Hi, I'm from Belgium
And I have an ORBEA rise H10
Markus is great!
he responds almost like a bot H24
except that he's a real person

on the rise you install a screen (EN610) in 5min

you pay 119€ to markus you install your shimano PCE2 kit on your shimano screen & on your pc via usb in (1min)
ANY DESK run !
And then markus to make the injection is so simple
25min after you orbea RISE is a real rocket

And I have a 19kilo gravel bike with a debrid engine ananda 80nm
and a VTT with ananda M100 (110/120/130nm!).

And I can tell you that the ORBEA is twice as powerful and pleasant! it's a real killer!

The only hitch is the damned 32 tooth chainring.
okkkk we can put a 34toooth (limit)

But the orbea rise with a 38 tooth chainring would be a motorbike

I have 38T

 

[sandy raw]

I have 38T

and it doesn't touch your frame ??

because the manual for the H10 says 34
but I think 36 is ok

but 38 At a glance, it looks too short.

what brand/model do you mount?
shimano or ethirtheen ?

thx you

 

[franciscoasismm]

and it doesn't touch your frame ??

because the manual for the H10 says 34
but I think 36 is ok

but 38 At a glance, it looks too short.

what brand/model do you mount?
shimano or ethirtheen ?

thx you

SHIMANO

 

[sandy raw]

STEPS SM-CRE80 Plato de 12 velocidades 53mm

¿Preparado para adentrarse en terrenos desconocidos? Los sistemas Shimano E-MTB se basan en 35 años de investigación y han puesto mucho énfasis en proporcionar una experiencia de conducción familiar...

www.bike-discount.de

this one ?
53mm in 38 teeth
and it doesn't touch your frame?
did you can post a photo? please

 

[franciscoasismm]

STEPS SM-CRE80 Plato de 12 velocidades 53mm

¿Preparado para adentrarse en terrenos desconocidos? Los sistemas Shimano E-MTB se basan en 35 años de investigación y han puesto mucho énfasis en proporcionar una experiencia de conducción familiar...

www.bike-discount.de

this one ?
53mm in 38 teeth
and it doesn't touch your frame?
did you can post a photo? please

 

[Backflip]

Please take care not to create confusion due to completly different bike models!
The bike shown on the picture above is a bike with the much older DU-E8000 drive unit and so this bike has another geometry than the new Orbea bikes with the EP801!
So maybe this chainring with 38 teeth will not fit to a newer Orbea Rise bike with DU-EP801 drive unit!

 

[sandy raw]

View attachment 146571

a ok it's not the 2023/2024! with the EP801
it's me, who didn't mention the year in my description

you have a 2018 2019 model


on the 2023 2024
the frame is very tight
and the maximum plate is then a 34 or 36

 

[franciscoasismm]

a ok it's not the 2023/2024! with the EP801
it's me, who didn't mention the year in my description

you have a 2018 2019 model


on the 2023 2024
the frame is very tight
and the maximum plate is then a 34 or 36

 

[Astro66]

Always check the Shimano Compatibility Chart. Bigger and Smaller tooth chain wheels can have different chain lines. So whilst it does appear there is some variety allowed. Depending which one you get, it can impact your chain line, and thus have cross chaining issues.

I am a shift perfectionist, so I stringently stick to Shimano guidelines.

It's pointless going a bit faster, only to create poorer shifting and chain alignment issues, which will impact your ride far greater.

https://phycbqxcopzgcmj6yj6xdbogki0wsiwo.lambda-url.ap-northeast-1.on.aws/en/compatibility/C-488