EMTBs aren't permitted?

[avit]

I think traditional mountain bike riders are just being snobs. If you are young and work hard at staying fit, having someone who is perhaps older, or just in questionable physical shape riding the same trails as you would raise your hackles. When these younger riders age like many of us already have, they will wish they could return to their favorite trails on an eMTB. SO, predictably, a critical mass of future older riders will demand eMTB's are permitted on all trails. Sadly for many of us who have one or two decades of riding left in us, we are denied what some may consider a certainty for all riders in the future. I fail to see how eMTB's cause more damage to trails in areas where riders are trucked to the top, and blast down the hills with a full tank of energy. The beauty of eMTB's is being able to enjoy climbing hills with support, and reading the top without being exhausted. Who wouldn't prefer that to chucking your bike in the back of a pickup and squeezing into a cab for a dusty ride uphill?

I live in the Canadian Rockies and so far, Banff National Park has banned all motorized vehicles including e-Bikes. Alberta has as well at the Nordic center in Canmore. There are only a few trails that permit e-bikes. And they are not the sort of trails our eMTB's were designed for. The e-bike permitted trails are typically flat, gravel and asphalt paved paths. SO, do you take a chance and ride on the trails that our bikes are banned from? The fine in the Banff National park is steep including a mandatory appearance before a judge.

Make sure people aren't getting confused between ebikes and pedelecs, there is a difference. Our bikes are allowed in the national parks,almost all trails permit them with exception of a few.

 

[johnf0246]

avit: Can you show us a video of one of the trails you ride in one of your National Parks?

 

[johnf0246]

Thanks for the update. How about US National Parks?

Canmore: In the US you can ride an Ebike in the National Parks on the same trails you can ride a mountain bike. The problem is there are no mountain bike trails in the National Parks unless you call a paved pathway a trail.

 

[Wooders]

Lets get real. The increased charge is to compensate for the fact that EMTB's are depriving the uplift service of income.

I would imagine this is the truth of it. Ultimately they need a certain amount of revenue to keep the business viable, so this seems fair enough to me.

 

[JoeBlow]

I will go again but at £19 a pop it won't be as often as I would if the cost were more reasonable so in my case their pricing policy IS losing them money.

 

[Dan202B]

I have noticed more wear on the local trails as ebikes become more popular. I believe the issue is three things.

1. Before ebikes a lot of out of shape people tried mountain biking but it was to hard so they quit. The ebike let’s them do it which equates to more volume of riders on the trail.
2. An average analog bike rider would do maybe 10 miles and 1300 ft of climbing and call it a day. So maybe two runs. Ebike riders are doing 25 + miles or about 5 runs. So more trips per rider down the trail.
3. Because a lot of the ebike riders are new to mountain biking and did not work to get in shape for more runs they didn’t get the experience to be better riders. They are not as technically skilled. They are harder on the breaks than necessary causing braking bumps and trail wear.
These are just my observations. The Ebike has allowed a lot of people that otherwise would not have gotten into the sport to join us. On one hand I am glad people are getting out and I welcome them to our sport. I hope it doesn’t cause a backlash where trails get closed because of the erosion issues. I live in California where the Sierra Club is itching to end anything fun.

 

[JoeBlow]

Looked at from the point of view of walkers a lot of the objections could equally apply to mountain bikers in general but in response to your points.

1. That applies to me. I quit in my 60's but an EMTB allowed me to take it up again with even more enthusiasm at 71. Currently 73 and still keen.
2. Not necessarily true. Uplift services and the generally younger participants mean I'm still at the back of the queue with regard to mileage and the number of runs completed. There is probably an argument to be made that uplifts cause more damage than EMTB's overall and young aggressive riders cause more damage than the more sedate amongst us.
3. We all have to start learning somewhere.

Live and let live I say.

Al

 

[Dan202B]

Looked at from the point of view of walkers a lot of the objections could equally apply to mountain bikers in general but in response to your points.

1. That applies to me. I quit in my 60's but an EMTB allowed me to take it up again with even more enthusiasm at 71. Currently 73 and still keen.
2. Not necessarily true. Uplift services and the generally younger participants mean I'm still at the back of the queue with regard to mileage and the number of runs completed. There is probably an argument to be made that uplifts cause more damage than EMTB's overall and young aggressive riders cause more damage than the more sedate amongst us.
3. We all have to start learning somewhere.

Live and let live I say.

Al

I am not talking about bike parks with lifts. Most bike parks also have crews that maintain the trails. Local trails are the issue.
You also should not compare rider to rider. The comparison is one rider on a ebike or an anolog bike and the wear that rider would cause on each. Comparing you on the two bikes would equate to some wear or no wear.
The young gun shredder kid might do 4 runs on a anolog but now does 10 an ebike. That’s the point.
To be clear I think it is great people are getting outside on a bike. I am merely discussing why I think ebikes are being looked at as possibly banned from areas. I hope they don’t get banned but they might. The best solution would be us riders do a little trail maintenance to reduce the concern. My wife has a bad knee so I got her a ebike to ride with me. If they ban them it will impact our outings together. That would suck.
Yes we do have to start somewhere. The point of that is a new rider would be typically working on physical condition before doing 4 or 5 runs. They would do maybe one working up to more runs/ long rides. The skill would be gained at a more metered rate and trail wear would be reduced in a given timeframe from lack of proper breaking technique.

this is just my perspective as to why the discussion of ebikes being banned comes up.

Awesome you are out enjoying mountain bikes again!!!

 

[Canmore TLCC 29]

I am not talking about bike parks with lifts. Most bike parks also have crews that maintain the trails. Local trails are the issue.
You also should not compare rider to rider. The comparison is one rider on a ebike or an anolog bike and the wear that rider would cause on each. Comparing you on the two bikes would equate to some wear or no wear.
The young gun shredder kid might do 4 runs on a anolog but now does 10 an ebike. That’s the point.
To be clear I think it is great people are getting outside on a bike. I am merely discussing why I think ebikes are being looked at as possibly banned from areas. I hope they don’t get banned but they might. The best solution would be us riders do a little trail maintenance to reduce the concern. My wife has a bad knee so I got her a ebike to ride with me. If they ban them it will impact our outings together. That would suck.
Yes we do have to start somewhere. The point of that is a new rider would be typically working on physical condition before doing 4 or 5 runs. They would do maybe one working up to more runs/ long rides. The skill would be gained at a more metered rate and trail wear would be reduced in a given timeframe from lack of proper breaking technique.

this is just my perspective as to why the discussion of ebikes being banned comes up.

Awesome you are out enjoying mountain bikes again!!!

Here's the thing. Bike parks excluded, mostly because I have never ridden on bike park trails, and I am not sure how many eMTB'rs are interested in them. Here in Alberta, there are riders who don't ride up to the top of trails under their own power. They ride in pickup trucks with gangs of mountain bikes hitched to the back. Riders cram into gas/diesel powered four wheel trucks to run up to the top so the riders have a full take of muscle energy for the ride down. The argument that eMTB's have resulted in a deterioration of trails is not true here. Sure it is possible trails have deteriorated due to increase rider populations. Especially during the last year due to COVID. Every able bodied rider is out on a bike in this province. Just go shopping for a bike at any of the shops and you will be met with disappointment. Cost and variety are not in the buyers favor. However, mountain trails may have been less affected by COVID than bike paths around my town. Every family and their dogs have been out on bike paths around town.

Hard core MTB groups that shuttle to the top of trails put more pressure on many of the trails than a handful of eMTB riders here. Riding an eMTB up to the top of a trail still takes rider power and depletes batteries. I don't think many eMTB riders go through the trouble of changing out their batteries during a days riding. I certainly don't. I have 700 Wh battery charge and typically arrive home with more than 30% charge. I will typically ride 20 to 40 km over 2 hours of trail riding.

So, I question your second point above. Shuttled MTB riders have far more downhill miles than the majority of eMTB riders. I also think your comment that eMTB riders didn't take the time to get into shape to be derogatory. Sure there are a percentage of riders who would never have got on a MTB if it wasn't e-powered. But there are probably more eMTB riders who are like myself. I have been a rider for many years. My physical condition probably peaked in my 30's or 40's. While aging sucks, it still beats the alternative. A blown out knee and subsequent sever aortic valve regurgitation had canceled my ability to ride up mountain trails under my own power. Having 50% to 300% support on uphill climbs has allowed me to get out and exercise and frankly, I am in better shape because of my eMTB. That and a prothetic heart valve last June. I probably blew out my heart riding my MTB when I was in my 50's. So I guess the point is, why kill yourself riding up trails when you don't have to. Get an eMTB or jump in a truck with your buddies and shuttle to the top. Which is more destructive to the trails? I have my opinion.

 

[Dan202B]

Here's the thing. Bike parks excluded, mostly because I have never ridden on bike park trails, and I am not sure how many eMTB'rs are interested in them. Here in Alberta, there are riders who don't ride up to the top of trails under their own power. They ride in pickup trucks with gangs of mountain bikes hitched to the back. Riders cram into gas/diesel powered four wheel trucks to run up to the top so the riders have a full take of muscle energy for the ride down. The argument that eMTB's have resulted in a deterioration of trails is not true here. Sure it is possible trails have deteriorated due to increase rider populations. Especially during the last year due to COVID. Every able bodied rider is out on a bike in this province. Just go shopping for a bike at any of the shops and you will be met with disappointment. Cost and variety are not in the buyers favor. However, mountain trails may have been less affected by COVID than bike paths around my town. Every family and their dogs have been out on bike paths around town.

Hard core MTB groups that shuttle to the top of trails put more pressure on many of the trails than a handful of eMTB riders here. Riding an eMTB up to the top of a trail still takes rider power and depletes batteries. I don't think many eMTB riders go through the trouble of changing out their batteries during a days riding. I certainly don't. I have 700 Wh battery charge and typically arrive home with more than 30% charge. I will typically ride 20 to 40 km over 2 hours of trail riding.

So, I question your second point above. Shuttled MTB riders have far more downhill miles than the majority of eMTB riders. I also think your comment that eMTB riders didn't take the time to get into shape to be derogatory. Sure there are a percentage of riders who would never have got on a MTB if it wasn't e-powered. But there are probably more eMTB riders who are like myself. I have been a rider for many years. My physical condition probably peaked in my 30's or 40's. While aging sucks, it still beats the alternative. A blown out knee and subsequent sever aortic valve regurgitation had canceled my ability to ride up mountain trails under my own power. Having 50% to 300% support on uphill climbs has allowed me to get out and exercise and frankly, I am in better shape because of my eMTB. That and a prothetic heart valve last June. I probably blew out my heart riding my MTB when I was in my 50's. So I guess the point is, why kill yourself riding up trails when you don't have to. Get an eMTB or jump in a truck with your buddies and shuttle to the top. Which is more destructive to the trails? I have my opinion.

On the first topic we are seeing a different reality due to trail systems in our area. Here most of the local trails are not accessible by a shuttle truck. So ebike vs anolog drastically changes how many trips your average rider does.
My second point is not that all ebike riders are out of shape but that those people that are not in shape to make the climb now have an option.That statement is not derogatory but just a reality that brings volume of riders up on the trail if ebikes did not exist. Your trying to make me out as bashing ebike riders. I am not. I am pointing out that I believe ebikes have increased the volume of riders and miles a rider does that wears on trail systems more. The point of saying that is simply to discuss and understand why we have riding areas starting to ban ebikes. Not to bash ebike riders but to look at the problem. I think if we can get riders, (all not just ebike) to get volunteer groups to do trail maintenance we stand a better chance of not having trails closed or ebikes banned.

 

[IndigoUnicorn]

On the first topic we are seeing a different reality due to trail systems in our area. Here most of the local trails are not accessible by a shuttle truck. So ebike vs anolog drastically changes how many trips your average rider does.
My second point is not that all ebike riders are out of shape but that those people that are not in shape to make the climb now have an option.That statement is not derogatory but just a reality that brings volume of riders up on the trail if ebikes did not exist. Your trying to make me out as bashing ebike riders. I am not. I am pointing out that I believe ebikes have increased the volume of riders and miles a rider does that wears on trail systems more. The point of saying that is simply to discuss and understand why we have riding areas starting to ban ebikes. Not to bash ebike riders but to look at the problem. I think if we can get riders, (all not just ebike) to get volunteer groups to do trail maintenance we stand a better chance of not having trails closed or ebikes banned.

As one of the out of shape, unskilled riders, I agree with you.

I’m disabled and, at this point in my life, ebikes are the only way I can still ride.

As to your assertion about trail maintenance: YES!

 

[Dan202B]

As one of the out of shape, unskilled riders, I agree with you.

I’m disabled and, at this point in my life, ebikes are the only way I can still ride.

As to your assertion about trail maintenance: YES!

Please understand I love the life a Ebike has given to my wife and I. I bought her one because she couldn’t do the climbs. She rides her bike at about 10 to 20 percent and now we are having a great time together. I am not against ebikes. The only reason I did not get one is with her on one and me on anolog it is a perfect match for us to both get a equal workout, (half of why we started riding I hate the gym).
Very happy for anyone that is now riding because of a ebike. The physical and mental health gained is priceless.

 

[johnf0246]

So we all know eBikes create more insignificant wear to singletrack trails because they usually ride a longer distance than those people ride an analog bike. Due to a lot of insignificant wear to the singletrack trails in eBike trail areas the trail surface will require more maintenance to keep it in its original condition.

There are normally three ways to get the maintenance on the eBike trails done:

1. By the Landmanager who is responsible for the area being ridden.

2. Organize volunteer groups to do the maintenance because they use the trail system and they want to keep the trails in their original of better condition.

3.Get the Landmanager to approve an Adopt-a-Trail program where experienced trail maintenance eBikers can do to mitigate trail degradation on a specific trail. If the eBiker is really motivated she or he may want to do
maintenance on the whole trail system when they see short sections where a minor fix can reduce or eliminate erosion potential.

Hopefully the Landmanager would be open to a volunteer program to help them keep trails in good shape. The guy in the picture has adopted a trail that is seven miles long