steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
Because MORE is better?...............
Definitely won’t get fitter with 110Nm…
Damn it, why do I still want one?!
Dji avinox
- Thread starter Farmernz
- Start date
FTFYBecause MORE is betterer?
I also rode with this one Shimano e8000 and 378wh 21kg battery I came back after 1h45mn no more battery for 30km so I'm impatiently waiting for amflowI wish the black Pro was £5999!
I had the email as well, I suppose like everybody who registered interest, but I’m going to change the habit of a lifetime and wait for a test ride and some more long term reviews.
I was also out on my 70Nm Shimano E8000 yesterday, made me wonder why I needed more power to be honest!
Definitely won’t get fitter with 110Nm…
Damn it, why do I still want one?!
Pretty much the same bike I was on yesterday, although I do have a TrailWatts bottle battery for longer rides out.
As I am a sad inquisitive individual I was looking at some of the data around the DJI system vs the others and put this chart together for my own reference , still building it and lots to put in but it just got me thinking exactly how far is DJI ahead on the basic numbers.
Someone else may have done this already in a review etc but what I thought was interesting is ignoring the boost Torque mode of the DJI Bosch is not that far behind now. DJI does have 400g or so of weight advantage but its not clear yet what they have given up on to get that especially in the motor. Battery wise Bosch is right up there with them now on the 800wh especially being <160g between them.
If Bosch opened the taps on power it would be interesting to see what they could do on the torque but they may be conservative for good reason.
DJI are pulling a lot of current from their battery here especially in burst, they are used to having very high burst current with the drones but that's on Lipo's usually. Doing the math the 1000w boost on 36v is 27A of burst current, the 800 battery is rated at 22Ah so that's just over 1C. On the 600 battery is 1.6C and while not terrible this is high current for a Li-ion battery, they are generally are rated at 1C max. Throw in some voltage sag and that soon gets closer to 2C or even more as the battery discharges.
As a comparison on a drone we can draw 60A+ from 1.5Ah battery pulling over 1500w, that is 40C but that is on a Lipo.
While DJI is giving you this power I do wonder as a result of going over the 1C the affect on the pack longevity over time with a 1000w of burst, especially on the 600wh battery. Then add in fast charging and its all the perfect mix of what's not ideal for good battery health over time.
DJI have a long and very checkered history of issues with their batteries over the years from random swelling and failure to BSM shutdowns and bricking when not used. However while they do have an army of skeletons on the closet their batteries have always been incredibly safe. It may not always work but it won't go on fire
.
It will be interesting to see if that 500 cycles to 80% holds up on heavy usage.
There is always a pay off with batteries especially.
Sad ramblings over.
Someone else may have done this already in a review etc but what I thought was interesting is ignoring the boost Torque mode of the DJI Bosch is not that far behind now. DJI does have 400g or so of weight advantage but its not clear yet what they have given up on to get that especially in the motor. Battery wise Bosch is right up there with them now on the 800wh especially being <160g between them.
If Bosch opened the taps on power it would be interesting to see what they could do on the torque but they may be conservative for good reason.
DJI are pulling a lot of current from their battery here especially in burst, they are used to having very high burst current with the drones but that's on Lipo's usually. Doing the math the 1000w boost on 36v is 27A of burst current, the 800 battery is rated at 22Ah so that's just over 1C. On the 600 battery is 1.6C and while not terrible this is high current for a Li-ion battery, they are generally are rated at 1C max. Throw in some voltage sag and that soon gets closer to 2C or even more as the battery discharges.
As a comparison on a drone we can draw 60A+ from 1.5Ah battery pulling over 1500w, that is 40C but that is on a Lipo.
While DJI is giving you this power I do wonder as a result of going over the 1C the affect on the pack longevity over time with a 1000w of burst, especially on the 600wh battery. Then add in fast charging and its all the perfect mix of what's not ideal for good battery health over time.
DJI have a long and very checkered history of issues with their batteries over the years from random swelling and failure to BSM shutdowns and bricking when not used. However while they do have an army of skeletons on the closet their batteries have always been incredibly safe. It may not always work but it won't go on fire
.It will be interesting to see if that 500 cycles to 80% holds up on heavy usage.
There is always a pay off with batteries especially.
Sad ramblings over.
ByteTrader
New Member
Must have been Shimano, on their knees “How the f**k did you guys manage this?”
You should forget about the video, as Michael, the presenter of the video has concerns on the test as well. The test has been done with the 600Wh Battery. This Battery was not able to be charged with 12 A (508 Watt) and he also is not sure if the detrating was caused by Motor or battery. With the charging issue, and also some comments of owners in the Video (see below. sorry in german) it looks obvious that the 600 Wh battery is not able to charge or deliver the needed power.
Astro66
Active member
The faster I go uphill, the more work the top half of my body needs to do, the higher my heart rate, the more calories I burn. I have shown this time and time again.
So it comes down to how you use the EMTB. If you use the extra power and torque to glide along the flat effortlessly. Sure, you'll gain nothing. But if you use boost mode to climb steeps that you normally couldn't tackle, or ones you can do, but now attacking it with pace. You won't just build fitness. You'll build strength.
I went from a 60Nm motor to a 85Nm motor, and I have noticed both upper body development, and my thighs have grown, as I tackle more difficult runs, with more and more pace.
Controlling all that Torque and Power, on technical terrain, with your body, requires a lot of strength.
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I don't know if some people have the same impression as me, but in view of a lot of messages posted here (some of which are very long and boring), I have a feeling that is whispered in my ears that the anti-dji offensive is gaining momentum and that other manufacturers are doing everything to avoid the worst for themselves in the near future..
Astro66
Active member
Here's the English. Not sure I'd call charging at 9-10A in the 600Wh battery a reliability issue. Looks like the owner is very pleased with the bike.
You ever been to Lincolnshire here in the UK?!
It’s like the Nulllabor Plain, only flatter!
If I walk upstairs I get altitude sickness…
Astro66
Active member
I hear you! I drive nearly an hour each way each weekend to find steeper terrain. My family thinks I'm insane .....You ever been to Lincolnshire here in the UK?!
No.. only an issue on the 600 W Battery..
But shows that his 800wh Battery charges with the max 500 Watts. That underlines the thesis that the 600 Watt battery is the issue for the test derating, as nobody else with the 800 wh had derating issues so far..
As I’m still tied to my bed (fuckingflu) I can not test it on my so far on long uphills..
If it stands me with my weight it stands anybody
Astro66
Active member
It would be a derate in the BMS. Which is quite normal for smaller batteries, as they have less cells in parallel. Thus each cell is required to deliver more current for the same battery power output.
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If your accusations is I am somehow being paid by someone to post against DJI your incredibly mistaken. My opinions are never bought ever.I don't know if some people have the same impression as me, but in view of a lot of messages posted here (some of which are very long and boring), I have a feeling that is whispered in my ears that the anti-dji offensive is gaining momentum and that other manufacturers are doing everything to avoid the worst for themselves in the near future..
If you also think I don't like DJI I'll share an view of a small selection of their products that I own. This just the goggles and some RFT and the tip of the ice berg. As I have said they are generally the product I go to. However it don't mean I'm a fanboy or blinkered by their nonsense.
As for long posts. Sorry that's how I am. I have over 20k posts on RCGroups and blogs with over 10 Million views related to this stuff so I tend to write how I speak and that's usually is a lot.
If you find it boring just skip over as that's what I would do. Tbh there is not much more to be said than has been than let see what happens.
Sorry to have ruffled the leaves.
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Exactly, that also shows off in the max deliverable power. Hope we see a second test with the 800Wh battery soon
Astro66
Active member
Mate. I find most of your posts great. But we don't need all the politics. It's an EMTB forum. We want to learn about the bike and motor. We don't get all this China rhetoric in the Bafang threads, because people read it to learn about the motor.
But I certainly am not going to tell you what to post. I'll take the good with the bad. I'm sure peeps look at my posts and think the same.
Thanks and fair, unfortunately with DJI the politics is part of the game but I get it.Mate. I find most of your post great. But we don't need all the politics. It's an EMTB forum. We want to learn about the bike and motor. We don't get all this China rhetoric in the Bafang threads, because people read it to learn about the motor.
But I certainly am not going to tell you what to post. I'll take the good with the bad. I'm sure peeps look at my posts and think the same.
I'll leave all of this here now and I never came here to do anything but share some info as Im genuinely getting back into bikes and want an EMTB and the crossover peaked my interest. My goal was never to do anything but share my experance and some truth that's not always easy to find.
I am going to step out now as I have to sort a re mortgage for fix the rate before I can spend money IV been told by the wife so I'm a little while off yet it seems and distracted things enough.
For complete clarity if anyone wants to know who I am I have put my social media and blog links in my profile . I'm not here to promote that though but it just gives you an indication of who I am and the experience of what I have spoken about. .
I call a spade a spade and tend to upset some brands with how I am but enough of the guff.
As a final note along side all the drone teardowns I also intend to be putting everything I find on Avinox on my wiki as well as on Louis Rossmans Repair.wiki as I am a massive advocate of right to repair, I will say if anyone finds anything like good teardown, technical and diagnostic info please don't be afraid to share it.
This is all done to help people with the products they buy when manufactures won't help you.
Anyways. I'm out
Thanks
Ian
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Astro66
Active member
Mate, you come across as a top bloke. I'll know who to message if I take up drones ......
You do you. I have found your insight interesting and appreciated given the state of world economics. Others would probably like to hear about which emtb you ride, the trails you like and how you have possibly joined the two passions of emtbs and drones into something different that what we are used to seeing around here.
Everyone is quick to judge and easily offended these days but if your intention was merely to inform, then keep up the good work! From what I have gathered from my limited research so far, is that I would not consider buying an Amflow emtb unless I could actually try one out first, from a Canadian distributor, who could guarantee me that they had a solid warranty plan in place that had a reasonable turnaround for the usual parts that fail on emtbs. This is coming from someone who is not in the market for a new bike, who does not need to have the fastest motor out there and is happy riding what they have. On that note, I do buy some parts from Aliexpress but would not buy a bike from them either. YMMV.
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Astro66
Active member
Yep. And that's what my local bike store said they could provide. But they don't have stock for test rides yet. They are hoping to get an XL Pro within 2 weeks for demos. But that is going to be way too big for me. But they said I could test ride it, to get a feel of the power, and play with the Screen. I can also connect my phone and play with the App.
But they are absolutely swamped with enquires, and most are just buying the bike, site unseen. They wouldn't even take my number. They said to keep an eye on their Facebook Page for when the XL demo arrives. Then call them to make an appointment for a test ride.
I'll have to see if I can drag up my old facebook account. Haven't used it in Years ........
Anyway. For other aussies in the Sydney area. Here's their facebook page. Keep an eye on it over the next couple of weeks if you want a test ride on an XL Amflow pl carbon pro.
Camden Cycles | Sydney NSW
Camden Cycles, Camden, New South Wales, Australia. 7,788 likes · 8 talking about this · 602 were here. Est.1980 Brands: Specialized, Cervelo, Santa Cruz Giant, Scott and More
www.facebook.com
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[/URL]Camden Cycles | Sydney NSW
Camden Cycles, Camden, New South Wales, Australia. 7,788 likes · 8 talking about this · 602 were here. Est.1980 Brands: Specialized, Cervelo, Santa Cruz Giant, Scott and More
Haha thanks! I’m also in Sydney and after an XL. I’m Northern though, The Odd Spoke looks to be the closest dealer.
I have to say that I am surprised that so many people are buying a bike from a LBS. I am sure the LBS has direct support from their other major brands they sell but what did they say they offer if there is a issue with the Amflow bike? Will the LBS be able honor the warranty on the bike and be able to get replacement parts from DJI in a reasonable amount of time? Have you heard of any other bike shop in Auz selling the Amflows? Such exciting times to be buying a new brand!Yep. And that's what my local bike store said they could provide. But they don't have stock for test rides yet. They are hoping to get an XL Pro within 2 weeks for demos. But that is going to be way too big for me. But they said I could test ride it, to get a feel of the power, and play with the Screen. I can also connect my phone and play with the App.
But they are absolutely swamped with enquires, and most are just buying the bike, site unseen. They wouldn't even take my number. They said to keep an eye on their Facebook Page for when the XL demo arrives. Then call them to make an appointment for a test ride.
I'll have to see if I can drag up my old facebook account. Haven't used it in Years ........
Anyway. For other aussies in the Sydney area. Here's their facebook page. Keep an eye on it over the next couple of weeks if you want a test ride on an XL Amflow pl carbon pro.
Camden Cycles | Sydney NSW
Camden Cycles, Camden, New South Wales, Australia. 7,788 likes · 8 talking about this · 602 were here. Est.1980 Brands: Specialized, Cervelo, Santa Cruz Giant, Scott and More
Astro66
Active member
He told me the motor and battery would have a 2 year warranty. He didn't mention any time frame because he hasn't ordered parts. He was planning to keep a spare 800Wh battery in stock. But nothing else.
I guess we'll get a better idea of deliver times, when his demo turns up. And deliveries start arriving.
He said Amflow brought a bike out for him to trial when they offered him the dealership. He was very impressed with the bike quality, but yes. Support is an unknown, till he orders spares.
I'll be keeping a close eye on the Facebook page, for any feedback. They are on Instagram as well, but I told him,l I barely do Facebook.
Yes, there is about 4 stores within 100km of me selling them. 6 stores in my state. About 20 in Australia. But I have only been talking to Camden Cycles.
Astro66
Active member
If The Odd Spoke get a bike in, and you're talking to them. Be sure to post in here. They may get a different size.
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