Dji avinox- Amflow

[DirkWisely]

If bike shops only made $200-$300 on a 5k+ bike, then they'd be ruined every time there was a sale to shift old stock.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Assuming it proves reliable, and assuming it proves to be repairable/replaceable, it's quite possible it wrecks the sales of every brand not using it. I can't imagine settling for a Bosch if a comparable bike is available with a DJI.

The bike comes first and foremost. The motor is second and not everyone is going to demand such excessive amounts of power. Would I skip over a great Crestline, Transition or even Orbea with the new Bosch to buy a DJI with trail geometry and no stateside support? No f**king way!

IF everything else is equal, the bike, the price, the reliability, the after sales support, then yes, the DJI powered unit is very compelling. But that's a big 'if'.

The primary well-known brands are going to stick with the Bosch (which is getting a power upgrade soon btw, probably before you can even get a DJI in the states) for many commonsense reasons revolving around: not buying from a bike competitor, known warranty service, no risk of impending tariffs, etc.

Seriously, you guys are making too big of a deal of DJI turning up their electric motor a bit. Any of the manufacturers can do the exact same and they will once they are confident of maintaining reliability. German manufacturing/ business culture is more conservative at its core, than Chinese Manufacturing culture.

Man, the Euros are going to hit that 20 kph max speed faster than ever aye?!

 

[DirkWisely]

The bike comes first and foremost. The motor is second and not everyone is going to demand such excessive amounts of power. Would I skip over a great Crestline, Transition or even Orbea with the new Bosch to buy a DJI with trail geometry and no stateside support? No f**king way!

IF everything else is equal, the bike, the price, the reliability, the after sales support, then yes, the DJI powered unit is very compelling. But that's a big 'if'.

The primary well-known brands are going to stick with the Bosch (which is getting a power upgrade soon btw, probably before you can even get a DJI in the states) for many commonsense reasons revolving around: not buying from a bike competitor, known warranty service, no risk of impending tariffs, etc.

Seriously, you guys are making too big of a deal of DJI turning up their electric motor a bit. Any of the manufacturers can do the exact same and they will once they are confident of maintaining reliability. German manufacturing/ business culture is more conservative at its core, than Chinese Manufacturing culture.

Man, the Euros are going to hit that 20 kph max speed faster than ever aye?!

That's why I said comparable bike.

And it isn't just the extra power. It's so slim and light. It looks like a Fuel EXe but with twice the range and power.

 

[electricbogaloo]

The weight isn't that revolutionary if you take the non-removeable battery into account. It probably also has a higher center of gravity than a bike with a removable battery because its long and thin and sits above the motor.

 

[Suns_PSD]

That's why I said comparable bike.

And it isn't just the extra power. It's so slim and light. It looks like a Fuel EXe but with twice the range and power.

Why would any manufacturer share bike plans with a bike manufacturing competitor which would be required to integrate a spec (or could just be copied afterwards)? That's suicidal.

Amflow screwed themselves (imo) by going into the bike manufacturing business.

They could have sold a LOT of motors, but instead they choose to sell a few bike/ motor packages. Contrary to opinions around here, 99% of e-bike riders are NOT going to buy an Amflow in pursuit of the DJI motor. Most e-bike riders walk in to their local shop and buy the pretty one/ discounted one/ brand they know/ friend's recommendation/ etc.

 

[Suns_PSD]

The weight isn't that revolutionary if you take the non-removeable battery into account. It probably also has a higher center of gravity than a bike with a removable battery because its long and thin and sits above the motor.

The battery weight is identical watts per kg to all the leaders with their newest batteries including Bosch, Fazua (announced), Orbea, etc.

The DJI motor is also basically the same as electric motors are nearly all remarkably similar, right down to the rattle. Bosch has already shared that their new motor was designed from the beginning to reliably deal with increased power. It's just a software program away.

So really, where is the difference? It's an Alibaba CF frame with a turned-up motor that is brand new to the market. People are acting like it's the beginning of a new era or something. Sheesh.

 

[DirkWisely]

A turned up motor which is remarkably more powerful without being heavier. You're downplaying that quite a bit.

 

[John_A]

I know a good few people that have preordered the Amflow, and a few others, myself included seriously considering one mainly because the power to weight ratio and the superb integration really are a big step up from the competition. Yes there are still concerns over support and reliability, but they are going to take a chunk of sales from other brands regardless

If a Bosch power update materialises as predicted then that could put the beaks on DJI sales, but if it doesn’t the Amflow is going to be a massive success

 

[Rando_12345]

• It's the lightest full power motor
• It's the smallest full power motor
• It's the most powerful motor, by a lot
• It's available in a bike that is cheaper than its competitors, while providing twice the power and battery capacity as other SL bikes, and is up to 4kg lighter than equivalent full power bikes at similar prices.

I'll most likely get a Bosch gen 5 on my next bike in the next 6 months, but if AMflow release a 170mm bike or a known brand build a bike around the motor it would be seriously hard to ignore.

Edit: I would be just as excited about ZF if they had showed it off on a bike that didn't look completely rubbish.

 

[DirkWisely]

• It's the lightest full power motor
• It's the smallest full power motor
• It's the most powerful motor, by a lot
• It's available in a bike that is cheaper than its competitors, while providing twice the power and battery capacity as other SL bikes, and is up to 4kg lighter than equivalent full power bikes at similar prices.

I'll most likely get a Bosch gen 5 on my next bike in the next 6 months, but if AMflow release a 170mm bike or a known brand build a bike around the motor it would be seriously hard to ignore.

Edit: I would be just as excited about ZF if they had showed it off on a bike that didn't look completely rubbish.

Can probably throw a 170mm on it no?

 

[irie]

Edit: I would be just as excited about ZF if they had showed it off on a bike that didn't look completely rubbish.

For me how a bike works comes first, after that (and only if it works well) does come what it looks like.

Edit: by coincidence there is a DJI Customer Experience Centre less than 2 mins from where I live.

Come To The DJI Experience Centre in Chichester

The UK’s first DJI Customer Experience Centre is now open in Chichester. Explore the latest DJI technology showcased in our drone demonstration area.

dronesafestore.com

 

[Rando_12345]

Can probably throw a 170mm on it no?

The only issue I have with the amflow is the rear shock is tiny and apparently a yoke activated trunnion shock is likely to be very unreliable. So waiting for the motor to appear on a bike intended for big jumps and rough trails.

 

[TimC7]

I have been more wondering how no brand has managed to seriously undercut the competition. These are bicycles, not cars, and yet a bargain e-mtb costs $5k?

Plenty asking the same question . . bicycle £10k, motorbike £8k

 

[DirkWisely]

The only issue I have with the amflow is the rear shock is tiny and apparently a yoke activated trunnion shock is likely to be very unreliable. So waiting for the motor to appear on a bike intended for big jumps and rough trails.

Unreliable how? It looks like my Levo.

 

[Lightme]

Is there any credible evidence to support the rumour that Bosch will increase the power of the new motor to compete with DJI, other than that’s what they did years ago on the Gen 4? Seems to me more optimism than rationality.

 

[emtbeast]

Is there any credible evidence to support the rumour that Bosch will increase the power of the new motor to compete with DJI, other than that’s what they did years ago on the Gen 4? Seems to me more optimism than rationality.

In a podcast(can most probably still be found on yt) with the owner of Crestline, he mentioned the possibility of Bosch doing that sooner or later...
If there is talk, there is some bit of truth behind it. Also from a marketing and business perspective that's the only sensible thing to do for Bosch...Also It's simple marketing psychology, that works pretty darn well...first sell the new stuff, when it stops selling, make an upgrade, rename it an keep on selling it almost like it's new again.

 

[emtbeast]

BTW did anyone read the Amflow's Limited Warranty section...the following part is quite interesting...while some stuff is pretty common, some is questionable


Free Warranty Repair Service will not be provided in any of the following circumstances:

• Collision or fire damage caused by non-manufacturing factors, including but not limited to, user errors.
• Damage caused by improper adjustment or installation, as well as the application of coatings and decorations to components, parts, or accessories that are not appropriate or compatible with the product.
• Damage caused by improper installation, incorrect use, or operation not in accordance with official instructions or manuals.
• Damage to other parts resulting from improper maintenance not in accordance with official instructions or manuals, or the failure to timely replace easily worn parts.
• Damage caused by using the product for stunts, jumps, and other hazardous actions, or improper use.
• Damage caused by riding on abnormal road conditions or traffic accidents.
• Damage caused by customer self-repair or assembly without official instructions.
• Damage caused by an unauthorized modification of circuits, mismatch, or misuse of battery and charger.
• Damage caused by a reliability or compatibility issue due to use of third-party parts unauthenticated by Amflow.
• Damage caused by over-discharge of the battery due to improper storage.
• Product labels, serial numbers, or other identification labels show signs of tampering or alteration.
• Damage caused by corrosion.
• Labor and shipping charges for part replacement or changeover.
• Daily wear and tear of easily worn parts. Easily Worn Parts include:Tires, Screws & Nuts, Gaskets & Washers, Bearing, Rubber Stopper, Grips, Cables, Transmission components (Chain, Chainring, Cassette), Fender & Cover Plate, and Saddle Fabrics.

 

[DirkWisely]

The only thing there that looks questionable to me is

"Damage caused by using the product for stunts, jumps, and other hazardous actions, or improper use."

And that sort of depends on how they interpret it. Is doing jumps at all considered not covered, or are they protecting themselves from people that try to take it to Red Bull Rampage?

 

[Suns_PSD]

• It's the lightest full power motor
• It's the smallest full power motor
• It's the most powerful motor, by a lot
• It's available in a bike that is cheaper than its competitors, while providing twice the power and battery capacity as other SL bikes, and is up to 4kg lighter than equivalent full power bikes at similar prices.

I'll most likely get a Bosch gen 5 on my next bike in the next 6 months, but if AMflow release a 170mm bike or a known brand build a bike around the motor it would be seriously hard to ignore.

Edit: I would be just as excited about ZF if they had showed it off on a bike that didn't look completely rubbish.

The motor weighs .7#s (claimed) less than the new Bosch cx. Hopefully Bosch will offer the race option again which will get that down to .4#.
Batteries watt per kg are the same so no difference there.
Bosch told Crestline the motor was designed with a '3 figure power number planned...' that means more than 99 NMs.
All CF Ebike frames weigh very similar amounts. Size mediums are all about 3300 grams. Differences often come down to longer more aggressive geo and the size being measured.
The rest of the weight differences are in the spec. The Amflow has a short dropper, a non reservoir air shock, Exo tires, 36mm fork, conservative geo, etc.
I belong to a FB group and a guy weighed his at 21.7 kgs. It's light for sure. But also what I would expect for the spec.

 

[Astro66]

Is doing jumps at all considered not covered,

They have guys jumping the bike on the website home page video. This would make the case that these smaller jumps are within the bikes normal operation. Otherwise they would need a caveat saying that what is being shown on their website is not allowed.

In Australian consumer laws. You cannot show the bike jumping as your advertising. Then claim it's not allowed, unless you have fineprint on the video, saying the advertising is not what the actual bike can do.

 

[DirkWisely]

The motor weighs .7#s (claimed) less than the new Bosch cx. Hopefully Bosch will offer the race option again which will get that down to .4#.
Batteries watt per kg are the same so no difference there.
Bosch told Crestline the motor was designed with a '3 figure power number planned...' that means more than 99 NMs.
All CF Ebike frames weigh very similar amounts. Size mediums are all about 3300 grams. Differences often come down to longer more aggressive geo and the size being measured.
The rest of the weight differences are in the spec. The Amflow has a short dropper, a non reservoir air shock, Exo tires, 36mm fork, conservative geo, etc.
I belong to a FB group and a guy weighed his at 21.7 kgs. It's light for sure. But also what I would expect for the spec.

Yeah sounds like Bosch could close the gap. I guess the main reason the DGI bike looks so slim is because the battery is integrated, and is above the motor instead of next to it, giving a less chunky BB.

I guess we'll see, as right now it's just theoretical that Bosch can amp their motor up.

 

[sethimus]

Plenty asking the same question . . bicycle £10k, motorbike £8k
View attachment 148432

how man sizes of this bike can you buy?

 

[sethimus]

Bosch told Crestline the motor was designed with a '3 figure power number planned...' that means more than 99 NMs.

torque ≠ power

 

[John_A]

torque ≠ power

2 terms often confused, I think the Crestline guy was clearly referring to Torque, we already have 3 figure power numbers

 

[TimC7]

how man sizes of this bike can you buy?

Around 9 sizes of Honda CRF I think . .

 

[sethimus]

Around 9 sizes of Honda CRF I think . .

sizes, not sku. try again.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

The battery weight is identical watts per kg to all the leaders with their newest batteries including Bosch, Fazua (announced), Orbea, etc.

The DJI motor is also basically the same as electric motors are nearly all remarkably similar, right down to the rattle. Bosch has already shared that their new motor was designed from the beginning to reliably deal with increased power. It's just a software program away.

So really, where is the difference? It's an Alibaba CF frame with a turned-up motor that is brand new to the market. People are acting like it's the beginning of a new era or something. Sheesh.

Power (Wattage):

• DJI Motor: 1000W
• Bosch CX Gen 5:600W
• The DJI motor provides 66.7% more power than the Bosch CX Gen 5.

Torque (Nm):

• DJI Motor: 120Nm
• Bosch CX Gen 5:85Nm
• The DJI motor offers 41.2% more torque than the Bosch CX Gen 5.

Weight:

• DJI Motor: 2.52 kg
• Bosch CX Gen 5: 2.8 kg
• The DJI motor is 10% lighter than the Bosch CX Gen 5.

Comparison:​

• DJI Motor: 396.8 W/kg
• Bosch CX Gen 5: 214.3 W/kg

The DJI motor has a 85.1% higher power-to-weight ratio than the Bosch CX Gen 5.

It's insanely more powerful in actual use, and having spend a week in Bellingham and Whistler, it makes the Bosch feel like a SL motor in comparison. There were 3 of us riding bikes, 2 on Bosch Gen5, one on DJI. We ended up using the Avinox to tow the Bosch up the long climbs (up to Dark Crystal), and even with a DJI rider towing another Bosch rider (in Turbo), it was still quicker than me on the Bosch in Turbo riding up a hill.

Even with the 30 second boost, it can just be reactivated over and over again.

Bosch Battery:​

• Energy: 800Wh
• Weight: 3.9 kg
• Energy-to-weight ratio = 800Wh / 3.9 kg = 205.1 Wh/kg

DJI Battery:​

• Energy: 800Wh
• Weight: 3.74 kg
• Energy-to-weight ratio = 800Wh / 3.74 kg = 213.9 Wh/kg

Comparison:​

• Bosch Battery: 205.1 Wh/kg
• DJI Battery: 213.9 Wh/kg

The DJI battery has a 4.3% higher energy-to-weight ratio compared to the Bosch battery, making it slightly more efficient in terms of energy capacity per kilogram of weight.

The Bosch is more refined on the sensors IMO, and has no rattle, compared to the DJI having a small amount (less than the Gen4 Bosch)

The DJI has a touch screen, a 12 amp fast charger and a well rounded app.

Its a brilliant motor system and will give the rest of the industry a boot to innovate (or die).

 

[Weeksy]

Power (Wattage):

• DJI Motor: 1000W
• Bosch CX Gen 5:600W
• The DJI motor provides 66.7% more power than the Bosch CX Gen 5.

Torque (Nm):

• DJI Motor: 120Nm
• Bosch CX Gen 5:85Nm
• The DJI motor offers 41.2% more torque than the Bosch CX Gen 5.

Weight:

• DJI Motor: 2.52 kg
• Bosch CX Gen 5: 2.8 kg
• The DJI motor is 10% lighter than the Bosch CX Gen 5.

Comparison:​

• DJI Motor: 396.8 W/kg
• Bosch CX Gen 5: 214.3 W/kg

The DJI motor has a 85.1% higher power-to-weight ratio than the Bosch CX Gen 5.

It's insanely more powerful in actual use, and having spend a week in Bellingham and Whistler, it makes the Bosch feel like a SL motor in comparison. There were 3 of us riding bikes, 2 on Bosch Gen5, one on DJI. We ended up using the Avinox to tow the Bosch up the long climbs (up to Dark Crystal), and even with a DJI rider towing another Bosch rider (in Turbo), it was still quicker than me on the Bosch in Turbo riding up a hill.

Even with the 30 second boost, it can just be reactivated over and over again.

Bosch Battery:​

• Energy: 800Wh
• Weight: 3.9 kg
• Energy-to-weight ratio = 800Wh / 3.9 kg = 205.1 Wh/kg

DJI Battery:​

• Energy: 800Wh
• Weight: 3.74 kg
• Energy-to-weight ratio = 800Wh / 3.74 kg = 213.9 Wh/kg

Comparison:​

• Bosch Battery: 205.1 Wh/kg
• DJI Battery: 213.9 Wh/kg

The DJI battery has a 4.3% higher energy-to-weight ratio compared to the Bosch battery, making it slightly more efficient in terms of energy capacity per kilogram of weight.

The Bosch is more refined on the sensors IMO, and has no rattle, compared to the DJI having a small amount (less than the Gen4 Bosch)

The DJI has a touch screen, a 12 amp fast charger and a well rounded app.

Its a brilliant motor system and will give the rest of the industry a boot to innovate (or die).

All of this is assuming people just buy Eebs for outright power ?

I'd rather know how far it can go at the same power as a Rise in boost on a 60Nm motor... or even less than that.

 

[RichMorr]

It’s a brilliant motor system and will give the rest of the industry a boot to innovate (or die).

Specialized tag line is the a cryptic clue why the GEN 4 has been delayed

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

All of this is assuming people just buy Eebs for outright power ?

Most people probably do, yes. Not everyone, but I'd bet that the majority of riders would go for a more powerful system, given the choice.

Discounting the power differences there are other benefits: its lighter than Bosch Gen5 & Shimano EP801, has a higher energy density battery, a useful touch screen, a fast charger, built in security, GPS/Tracking, a useful app, and has all that power on tap.

But the power is the main benefit. For years 85Nm has been enough. Then I tried 120Nm.

For me it is about getting back to the top quicker. But not everyone is interested in that.

Get this motor in a 180mm travel Ebike and I'm sold!