Dji avinox- Amflow

[Jeff McD]

There's plenty of reports from riders in HK and China who are already using the bikes to the full potential.

I agree spare motor availability could be a clincher.

Not sure you're right about that. Googling this bike does not show any posts from riders in China anywhere on media. I wouldn't hold my breath. This appears to be a closely guarded secret right up until when it was introduced to the public, probably even in China.

 

[John_A]

Not sure you're right about that. Googling this bike does not show any posts from riders in China anywhere on media. I wouldn't hold my breath. This appears to be a closely guarded secret right up until when it was introduced to the public, probably even in China.

search YouTube for “amflow“ sort by upload date

 

[Biano44]

*Moderator edit. Post moved to derestricting*


If you leave this posted, someone will change it, and ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[John_A]

If you leave this posted, someone will change it, and ruin it for the rest of us.

That;s why everyone else was leaving subtle pointers

 

[Mitdg12345]

would love to see either amflow or hopefully more brands specing this motor on longer travel bikes (160mm+) as i think currently PL Carbon is a great looking bike not enough travel for some people.

 

[Mabman]

would love to see either amflow or hopefully more brands specing this motor on longer travel bikes (160mm+) as i think currently PL Carbon is a great looking bike not enough travel for some people.

Or how about DJI making their system open source like Bafang where frame manufacturers like Markhur/LightCarbon etc. make compatible frames and sell on as frame/motor/battery/systems? That way the above would probably happen at a faster rate, and arguably a more affordable pricing.

Oh and sell parts and diagrams with a manual on how to service them also.

 

[DirkWisely]

Pretty sure DJI is planning to provide their system to bike makers. Open source is doubtful though.

 

[Redlemon]

Pretty sure DJI is planning to provide their system to bike makers. Open source is doubtful though.

If DJI are to take over the market short term as some people are saying on here, they have no choice but to sign large OEM contracts with established MTB brands as soon as possible.

There's no way they will be able to compete on a business perspective if they only rely on unknown chinese MTB brands to move their motors.

 

[Biano44]

If DJI are to take over the market short term as some people are saying on here, they have no choice but to sign large OEM contracts with established MTB brands as soon as possible.

There's no way they will be able to compete on a business perspective if they only rely on unknown chinese MTB brands to move their motors.

Chances are, they already have.
For example, look at the delay on the new Levo......who's to say they haven't joined up with DJI. It would explain the huge wait for a new one, maybe Amflow have a 6 month grace period which matches the March/April release of the Levo.
It would explain why Brose have linked up with Sram too.

 

[DirkWisely]

Chances are, they already have.
For example, look at the delay on the new Levo......who's to say they haven't joined up with DJI. It would explain the huge wait for a new one, maybe Amflow have a 6 month grace period which matches the March/April release of the Levo.
It would explain why Brose have linked up with Sram too.

This would be sick. DJI's system with Specialized support? I choose to believe this.

 

[Redlemon]

Chances are, they already have.
For example, look at the delay on the new Levo......who's to say they haven't joined up with DJI. It would explain the huge wait for a new one, maybe Amflow have a 6 month grace period which matches the March/April release of the Levo.
It would explain why Brose have linked up with Sram too.

I believe the Levo delay is more linked to the new Brose motor delay than Specialized switching to a new supplier, but anything is possible.

These long term relationships between some of these companies will be hard to break (Specialized-Brose, Giant-Yamaha, Trek-Bosch & ETC.) and so many brands just switched from Shimano to Bosch resulting in a lot of bikes early in their life cycle.

Anyway if somehow DJI can find their way on any significant brand available worldwide assuming the system live up to the hype, I guess it'll shake the motor market rather quickly.

 

[DirkWisely]

Assuming it proves reliable, and assuming it proves to be repairable/replaceable, it's quite possible it wrecks the sales of every brand not using it. I can't imagine settling for a Bosch if a comparable bike is available with a DJI.

 

[Astro66]

I'm not sure anyone else will be able to compete price wise with Amflow. The PL Carbon with 800Wh battery is only AUD$9300 in Australia. That is only £4,770.

That's an on steroids full power, carbon framed, light weight EMTB, with a great battery. Decent 12 speed SRAM GX Eagle transmission, decent Fox 36 Forks and FOX Float Performance suspension, and decent MT5 Magura brakes.

That is cracking value.

 

[sethimus]

Chances are, they already have.
For example, look at the delay on the new Levo......who's to say they haven't joined up with DJI. It would explain the huge wait for a new one, maybe Amflow have a 6 month grace period which matches the March/April release of the Levo.
It would explain why Brose have linked up with Sram too.

i want what this one is smoking

 

[Weeksy]

I'm not sure anyone else will be able to compete price wise with Amflow. The PL Carbon with 800Wh battery is only AUD$9300 in Australia. That is only £4,770.

That's an on steroids full power, carbon framed, light weight EMTB, with a great battery. Decent 12 speed SRAM GX Eagle transmission, decent Fox 36 Forks and FOX Float Performance suspension, and decent MT5 Magura brakes.

That is cracking value.

Part of me has to ask.... How...

 

[DirkWisely]

Part of me has to ask.... How...

I have been more wondering how no brand has managed to seriously undercut the competition. These are bicycles, not cars, and yet a bargain e-mtb costs $5k?

 

[Weeksy]

I have been more wondering how no brand has managed to seriously undercut the competition. These are bicycles, not cars, and yet a bargain e-mtb costs $5k?

Because the components still cost XYZ. A set of Forks, Brakes, Frame, etc all still have a cost. Even if you make the battery and motor and sell it at a loss, everything else still costs what it costs. Plus distribution, support, warranty, etc etc There's a bucket load of costs. So you either use worse components or make less profit.

 

[Rando_12345]

The maths are a bit fuzzy, especially with carbon frames where the cost is mostly in the mold rather than each individual frame etc. But the main reason for the high costs of bikes is the number of middlemen involved in selling the bike. All numbers below are made up and inaccurate but help understand the business model.

Bike shop brand:
1) Factory makes frame for $500 and sells it to the brand for $1000
2) Brand buys frame and components and sells it to the distributor for $3000
3) Distributor buys complete bike and resells it to local bike shop for $4500
4) Local bike shop sells bike to customer for $6000
5) For an Ebike, Bosch/shimano probably sell the motor/battery etc as a kit for ~$1000 to the brand, that gets passed along as an extra $2000 for the end customer. So let's say 8k for a nice midrange store bought bike.

For YT/Canyon, they own the factory and don't use a distributor:

1) Factory makes frame for $500 and ship it to brand
2) Brand buys components and sells complete bike to customer in the post for $4000
3) For an ebike they need to still buy the electronics kit and add 2k to the cost, so you have nice ebikes from YT/canyon for $6000.

DJI effectively doing the above except they are making their own frame and motor, so they are eliminating one step of upsale on the motor, so using the numbers above they could be making their own ebike and selling direct for $5000. As they are planning on also selling through shops, they need to account for the shop margin and price the bike at $6500.

Remember that the batteries they sell to us for $1000 are made from cells that retail at under $100 per kWh, the price of emtbs has very little to do with the manufacturing price.

 

[Doomanic]

I'm not sure anyone else will be able to compete price wise with Amflow. The PL Carbon with 800Wh battery is only AUD$9300 in Australia. That is only £4,770.

That's an on steroids full power, carbon framed, light weight EMTB, with a great battery. Decent 12 speed SRAM GX Eagle transmission, decent Fox 36 Forks and FOX Float Performance suspension, and decent MT5 Magura brakes.

That is cracking value.

Including sales tax?

 

[Weeksy]

3) Distributor buys complete bike and resells it to local bike shop for $4500
4) Local bike shop sells bike to customer for $6000

I can absolutely promise you, this is NOT the case. If an LBS makes £200 ($300) on a bike sale they've done OK.

 

[Astro66]

Including sales tax?

In Australia, you are not allowed to advertise the non-sales tax price. The price is the final price you pay. There may be shipping. But as you cannot actually order it yet. I cannot confirm.

 

[whitymon]

Including sales tax?

Here is an example in UK: Amflow Bikes | 0% Finance available

Silver version is really a good deal for people who do need such trail bike.

 

[Doomanic]

I can absolutely promise you, this is NOT the case. If an LBS makes £200 ($300) on a bike sale they've done OK.

On what value bike? I got my KSL for trade plus VAT and I saved a lot more than that.

 

[Weeksy]

On what value bike? I got my KSL for trade plus VAT and I saved a lot more than that.

Just what mates who run shops tell me. There's some bikes of course at full price they'll make on.. but many many many they won't

 

[Rando_12345]

Yes, as I said, this is a just an example to help think about why bikes cost what they do, obviously taxes, sales, stock they can't shift, warranties, overheads at warehouses/shops etc play a massive role in actual profitability of the entire chain. A big element of the price for brands and distributors is simply the volume they can order at once.

My point is that a chinese company (in particular) making its own electronics and possibly frame inhouse can be incredibly aggressive on price and still have decent margins. Let's just hope the quality is there.

 

[Doomanic]

Just what mates who run shops tell me. There's some bikes of course at full price they'll make on.. but many many many they won't

If they mean nett profit on the bread and butter stuff, then yeah, I can see that, but gross? No way. If there was only 300 quid in a £13k S-Works then no one would stock them.

 

[whitymon]

On a higher level you cannot compare a company where everything is within China/India/... to a company where R&D/designer/management are in Western EU or US.

Their can have the same %age margin with lower prices. Still remember that perceived quality is for most people based on prices. Eg: first google phones were awesome and cheap, still people did not bought them because of low price meaning it is poor product. Then CEO of Android/Google said: Ok people do not understand, we are going to up the prices too.

In the end prices are high because all brand place high prices, until someone will come and disrupt market - this is the same pattern in any kind of industry.

Where I live we have tons and tons of company/competitors that have silent agreement on range of prices. It is illegal but it is what it is.

 

[electricbogaloo]

The prices pre corona where massively lower. They got inflated by the covid hype and unsustainable demand patterns.

The price point for high end bikes pre covid is the entry level price point now. Or at least that's what the manufacturers wanted to settle on. But now the market is saturated and new technologies are on the horizon constantly.

 

[whitymon]

For mtb they really ramp up the prices for no reason except huge demand / low offer, let's scam customer.

Still amazed that you can get analog bike for 50% off if they are new but from last year. A mate just got a Giant Freeride bike for 2k instead of 4,5k but is 2023. Make no sense for us as by law, where I live, it is forbidden to sell under the cost value.

For emtb this is, I think, a bit different as usually the customer base is older with more cash and ready to spend, therefore, the intent to drastically drop the prices is not there yet.

I understand that battery and motor cost is something added still, some brands out there are taking a huge margin on these bikes mostly because they can.

Regarding stock, good for us but some brands and company died from their stupid behavior of full factory, stock, full demand to low demand.

Market was huge few years ago but is returning fast to what it was, for the good and the better.

 

[sethimus]

I can absolutely promise you, this is NOT the case. If an LBS makes £200 ($300) on a bike sale they've done OK.

lol, u 4 real?

tell me you dont work in the industry without telling me you dont work in the industry