Derestricting bosch smart system

[MountainBoy]

Most of us don’t want to hit 50mph, just keep up with our old selves and mates who have analogue bikes on the flats. The North American limit of 22MPH would suffice for most.

On my Scott Strike Bosch Gen 4 here in N. America it cuts out at an indicated 18.6-18.9 mph. However, I think the true speed is closer to 16-17 mph. This is a stock bike with stock tires. I've been meaning to do an accurate speedometer check but haven't got around to it yet.

I would like it to go 22 mph with some assist (and I would be totally satisfied if it would actually do that) but it's not worth it for me to go with a tuning kit due to potential problems and, of course, on longer rides it would take that much more discipline to manage the battery. I suspect manufacturers "reverse cheat" by making the speedometer purposefully inaccurate (read too fast) and then have the software cut power too soon. My theory is by avoiding assist for those top 5 mph of legal assist, they can force much greater daily battery life (as well as warranty durability) leading to a better product reputation and lower warranty costs. I've only owned one e-bike so I have no idea how common this "reverse cheating" is, but I suspect it's rampant in the industry. Probably the Euro limit is low enough that manufacturers can bump speeds right up to the limit but on N. American products they are more conservative on getting close to the legal limit.

edit: I just noticed some state laws are more restrictive which probably explains some of manufacturers cutting power before the 22 mph federal limit. For example, my bike was purchased in Washington State which has a limit of 20 mph on this class of bike. That still doesn't fully explain why mine cuts out at an indicated 18.6-18-9 mph or why the speedometer reads so high.

Comments? How accurate is your speedometer, both on Euro and N. American e-bikes, and how close is the power cut-off (indicated) to the legal limit?

 

[Onetime]

On my Scott Strike Bosch Gen 4 here in N. America it cuts out at an indicated 18.6-18.9 mph. However, I think the true speed is closer to 16-17 mph. This is a stock bike with stock tires. I've been meaning to do an accurate speedometer check but haven't got around to it yet.

I would like it to go 22 mph with some assist (and I would be totally satisfied if it would actually do that) but it's not worth it for me to go with a tuning kit due to potential problems and, of course, on longer rides it would take that much more discipline to manage the battery. I suspect manufacturers "reverse cheat" by making the speedometer purposefully inaccurate (read too fast) and then have the software cut power too soon. My theory is by avoiding assist for those top 5 mph of legal assist, they can force much greater daily battery life (as well as warranty durability) leading to a better product reputation and lower warranty costs. I've only owned one e-bike so I have no idea how common this "reverse cheating" is, but I suspect it's rampant in the industry. Probably the Euro limit is low enough that manufacturers can bump speeds right up to the limit but on N. American products they are more conservative on getting close to the legal limit.

edit: I just noticed some state laws are more restrictive which probably explains some of manufacturers cutting power before the 22 mph federal limit. For example, my bike was purchased in Washington State which has a limit of 20 mph on this class of bike. That still doesn't fully explain why mine cuts out at an indicated 18.6-18-9 mph or why the speedometer reads so high.

Comments? How accurate is your speedometer, both on Euro and N. American e-bikes, and how close is the power cut-off (indicated) to the legal limit?

‘US bikes are restricted to 20mph, not 22. The bikes start cutting out as the bike approaches 20mph, so it doesn’t go over 20. I am also interested in de-restricting mine, but it’s a 2022 Bosch smart System AND the bosch wheel rim/valve stem magnet sensor and as far as I know, no one makes a de-restrictor for this setup. Bummer!

 

[-Matt]

Anyone have the speedbox 1.0 or 1.0B fitted to a Bosch smart system?

Have just ordered a Cube Stereo 160, with the 750 battery and smart system.

But reading the comments on the speedbox youtube video, there seems to be a lot of negative comments regarding the bosch system detecting them and shutting down the bike (504).

I currently have a Cube Reaction with the Gen 4 motor and the Speedbox 3.0 has worked flawlessly, even though there are plenty of reports of people getting the 504 error.

I only want it to slightly raise the limit to around 21MPH (which i have set on the reaction), so wondering if those who are getting the 504 error, are either setting a large speed limit or just ignoring the countdown etc.

So anyone used one on a smart system with a sensible limit, and not had any problems?

Cheers

 

[Naagra]

Anyone have the speedbox 1.0 or 1.0B fitted to a Bosch smart system?

Have just ordered a Cube Stereo 160, with the 750 battery and smart system.

But reading the comments on the speedbox youtube video, there seems to be a lot of negative comments regarding the bosch system detecting them and shutting down the bike (504).

I currently have a Cube Reaction with the Gen 4 motor and the Speedbox 3.0 has worked flawlessly, even though there are plenty of reports of people getting the 504 error.

I only want it to slightly raise the limit to around 21MPH (which i have set on the reaction), so wondering if those who are getting the 504 error, are either setting a large speed limit or just ignoring the countdown etc.

So anyone used one on a smart system with a sensible limit, and not had any problems?

Cheers

Same ! I have some solution hope it's help : Currently only Badass 4/Adaptator work (but nobody have a real review with 2022 Kiox 300) and the Speedbox 1.0...

• i have recently a winora R5 Pro with the smart system and here the answers i have for the Badass 4 and the adaptator for 2022 :

- Hi,

504 erros issue didn’t get better with their new motors.
Still the same as before.

• For Bikespeed they don't have a solution right now with the chips shortage maybe in 2023:

- thank you for your interest in our products. We have already developed a tuning for the new Bosch Smart System and have successfully driven more than 2000 km. However, due to the current worldwide chip shortage, we have problems finding the necessary components for series production. Delivery times of 50 to 80 weeks are currently standard. We are of course trying to implement this sooner and are already working on the development of an alternative hardware. However, we are not yet able to provide a delivery date for this. If we offer a tuning for the Bosch Smart System and know delivery dates, we will publish this immediately on our homepage.

• Volspeed is the same as Bikespeed, don't have a solution until 2023 :

- unfortunately the VOLspeed V4 does not work with the Smart System. You need a tuning module that is suitable for the Smart System. Unfortunately, we will only be able to offer a tuning for this next years

• Ebike+ have a solution but only in september for the rim magnet wheels, don't know about the magnet on the break btw i need to ask this.

- For the unlocking of Bosch motors with the smart system we have kit unlockers with chips and connectors to be installed into the crankcase.
At the moment, the kit is compatible with models with the standard speed sensor.
From September, also a kit for models with the internal speed sensor (rim magnet) will be available.
The kit has a countermeasure against the antituning to avoid the error 504 to appear.
You can turn the kit on and off by using our Eplus Tuning app.
The app allows you to set the max speed and the motor mappings.
Data is halved on the onboard display, correct in the app.

 

[Onetime]

Same ! I have some solution hope it's help : Currently only Badass 4/Adaptator work (but nobody have a real review with 2022 Kiox 300) and the Speedbox 1.0...

• i have recently a winora R5 Pro with the smart system and here the answers i have for the Badass 4 and the adaptator for 2022 :

- Hi,

504 erros issue didn’t get better with their new motors.
Still the same as before.

• For Bikespeed they don't have a solution right now with the chips shortage maybe in 2023:

- thank you for your interest in our products. We have already developed a tuning for the new Bosch Smart System and have successfully driven more than 2000 km. However, due to the current worldwide chip shortage, we have problems finding the necessary components for series production. Delivery times of 50 to 80 weeks are currently standard. We are of course trying to implement this sooner and are already working on the development of an alternative hardware. However, we are not yet able to provide a delivery date for this. If we offer a tuning for the Bosch Smart System and know delivery dates, we will publish this immediately on our homepage.

• Volspeed is the same as Bikespeed, don't have a solution until 2023 :

- unfortunately the VOLspeed V4 does not work with the Smart System. You need a tuning module that is suitable for the Smart System. Unfortunately, we will only be able to offer a tuning for this next years

• Ebike+ have a solution but only in september for the rim magnet wheels, don't know about the magnet on the break btw i need to ask this.

- For the unlocking of Bosch motors with the smart system we have kit unlockers with chips and connectors to be installed into the crankcase.
At the moment, the kit is compatible with models with the standard speed sensor.
From September, also a kit for models with the internal speed sensor (rim magnet) will be available.
The kit has a countermeasure against the antituning to avoid the error 504 to appear.
You can turn the kit on and off by using our Eplus Tuning app.
The app allows you to set the max speed and the motor mappings.
Data is halved on the onboard display, correct in the app.

Yep, I got the same info when I checked with the various companies that make de-restrictors for the Bosch smart system. I have the 2022 Smart system and wheel rim magnet, so I’m looking forward to the eplus solution coming in September.

 

[BeBiker]

Anyone have the speedbox 1.0 or 1.0B fitted to a Bosch smart system?

Have just ordered a Cube Stereo 160, with the 750 battery and smart system.

I know some people who fitted the Speedbox 1.0 on the new 750wh Bosch Smart System (disk brake magnet)
No errors, no counting down, no delay, works good.

They don't do updates, and don't connect their Smartphone-GPS to the system.

 

[-Matt]

Well i went ahead and ordered the speedbox 1.0 B, which i fitted on Wednesday, and unfortunately had to remove this morning!

I only set it on 19MPH (on the app), however i had multiple issues:
Several times it would crash on either 0mph or 16.2mph (it would stay until turned off and back on again.
The speed on the display was very random (the last 2 digits are supposed to be the real speed, but its not even close to the real speed)
The countdown at the end was Very erratic, nothing would happen, then suddenly lumps of riding time and miles would add on in big lumps.

Then the final nail was this morning, i unplugged the bike off charge and the display was showing i had done 2.6 million miles in 18 minutes riding

So there is clearly something very wrong!! so removed it before the bike bricked its self. Luckily the miles returned to normal after turning the speedbox off and back on, but then started jumping around.

I sent both the supplier and speedbox an email first thing this morning, but neither have replied so far, so will see if they reply on monday.

But think i will be sending it back.

 

[Onetime]

Well i went ahead and ordered the speedbox 1.0 B, which i fitted on Wednesday, and unfortunately had to remove this morning!

I only set it on 19MPH (on the app), however i had multiple issues:
Several times it would crash on either 0mph or 16.2mph (it would stay until turned off and back on again.
The speed on the display was very random (the last 2 digits are supposed to be the real speed, but its not even close to the real speed)
The countdown at the end was Very erratic, nothing would happen, then suddenly lumps of riding time and miles would add on in big lumps.

Then the final nail was this morning, i unplugged the bike off charge and the display was showing i had done 2.6 million miles in 18 minutes riding

View attachment 95747

So there is clearly something very wrong!! so removed it before the bike bricked its self. Luckily the miles returned to normal after turning the speedbox off and back on, but then started jumping around.

I sent both the supplier and speedbox an email first thing this morning, but neither have replied so far, so will see if they reply on monday.

But think i will be sending it back.

Well, that’s a bummer! Hopefully you’ll get it sorted and working properly.

 

[slypanda]

Bosch Smart System Desrestriction - SpeedFun!​

I bought this as a guinea pig, it has no reviews and the company is relatively unknown, but it was half the price of speed box 1.0 so I took my chances and it actually arrived with clear instructions and seems to be, so far at least, a viable option for anyone who has the same issue with the new Bosch smart system:

SpeedFun tuning ebike Furious Evo for Bosch Smart System 2022

2 day delivery from Italy. Super easy to install, best of all it works! Tested for about 30 mins avg speed 20.4mph, top speed (down a small hill) 42.5 mph. That's more like it, well happy! Doesn't feel dangerous at all, just feels more natural and how the bike should be, if any warranty issues arise you simple just remove. My advice to anyone reading this, probably best not to connect to the app as this is how Bosch will likely detect it. I haven't downloaded the app at all because of this fear. I took a risk on this, being a bit of bit of a guinea pig for this relatively unknown company on a device with no reviews at all. With limited options on the market and for half the price of the speedbox 1.0 I can confirm this is so far so good! Will report back if any errors occur.

 

[Naagra]

Really really cool review mate ! thanks for this !

I bought the Simplek pro Stealth Edition ( sIMPLEK have a serious reputation in germany apparently) can't wait to test it ! If it's doesn't work well i think i buy the speedfun because its 2 less expensive

Do you need an activation everytime you start the smart system ?
And i think yes majority of error is with the Bosch app flow, I will uninstall it too when I receive the module

I keep you in touch with some 524001 error &


simplek-pro-tuning-modul-bosch-smart-system-bes3

 

[slypanda]

Really really cool review mate ! thanks for this !

I bought the Simplek pro Stealth Edition ( sIMPLEK have a serious reputation in germany apparently) can't wait to test it ! If it's doesn't work well i think i buy the speedfun because its 2 less expensive

View attachment 98840

Do you need an activation everytime you start the smart system ?
And i think yes majority of error is with the Bosch app flow, I will uninstall it too when I receive the module

I keep you in touch with some 524001 error &


simplek-pro-tuning-modul-bosch-smart-system-bes3

Thanks Naagra. No there was no activation needed, just plug in and go. No cool down needed either like the speedbox 1.0. The simplek looks good! I never saw that one. Yes please keep us outdated on how it goes! I wish you luck

 

[Onetime]

Bosch Smart System Desrestriction - SpeedFun!​

I bought this as a guinea pig, it has no reviews and the company is relatively unknown, but it was half the price of speed box 1.0 so I took my chances and it actually arrived with clear instructions and seems to be, so far at least, a viable option for anyone who has the same issue with the new Bosch smart system:

SpeedFun tuning ebike Furious Evo for Bosch Smart System 2022

2 day delivery from Italy. Super easy to install, best of all it works! Tested for about 30 mins avg speed 20.4mph, top speed (down a small hill) 42.5 mph. That's more like it, well happy! Doesn't feel dangerous at all, just feels more natural and how the bike should be, if any warranty issues arise you simple just remove. My advice to anyone reading this, probably best not to connect to the app as this is how Bosch will likely detect it. I haven't downloaded the app at all because of this fear. I took a risk on this, being a bit of bit of a guinea pig for this relatively unknown company on a device with no reviews at all. With limited options on the market and for half the price of the speedbox 1.0 I can confirm this is so far so good! Will report back if any errors occur.

I was going to ask if it’s compatible with the Bosch rim magnet speed sensor, but after looking at the website, it specifies that it is not compatible with the Bosch rim magnet. Bummer!

 

[Onetime]

Really really cool review mate ! thanks for this !

I bought the Simplek pro Stealth Edition ( sIMPLEK have a serious reputation in germany apparently) can't wait to test it ! If it's doesn't work well i think i buy the speedfun because its 2 less expensive

View attachment 98840

Do you need an activation everytime you start the smart system ?
And i think yes majority of error is with the Bosch app flow, I will uninstall it too when I receive the module

I keep you in touch with some 524001 error &


simplek-pro-tuning-modul-bosch-smart-system-bes3

I looked at their website, but it’s only in German. Do you know if it’s compatible with the Bosch wheel rim magnet speed sensor?

 

[Naagra]

Thanks Naagra. No there was no activation needed, just plug in and go. No cool down needed either like the speedbox 1.0. The simplek looks good! I never saw that one. Yes please keep us outdated on how it goes! I wish you luck

Hope it's going well ? any error so far ?

The simplek doesn't work well sadly, i'm in process to find an solution with them because the Stealth Pro create big jump speed in the display and the motor cut several second it's weird and annoying ...

Here a video of the problem :

sIMPLEK Pro Stealth Problem

 

[slypanda]

Hope it's going well ? any error so far ?

The simplek doesn't work well sadly, i'm in process to find an solution with them because the Stealth Pro create big jump speed in the display and the motor cut several second it's weird and annoying ...

Here a video of the problem :

sIMPLEK Pro Stealth Problem

Hey mate,

Sorry to hear you're having issues, I have only done about 60 miles so far but no issues as of yet, its really enjoyable atm so praying no errors pop up. Will definitely post here if they do!

In your video I can see how its cutting out, looks super annoying. The speed fun is quite accurate up to about 12 mph then after that it's anyone's guess. I've started to ride without without the kiox 300 always attached just to help with battery and I find it a bit too bright at night, there's probably a way to dim the screen a but I haven't figured it out yet.

I hope you manage to get your simplek issue sorted or at least a refund!

Best of luck!

 

[slypanda]

I know some people who fitted the Speedbox 1.0 on the new 750wh Bosch Smart System (disk brake magnet)
No errors, no counting down, no delay, works good.

They don't do updates, and don't connect their Smartphone-GPS to the system.

I think this maybe the trick here, don't download the app and don't do updates and how will Bosch ever know? I'm no tech wizard but my guess is this is how 504 errors are occurring. Sneaky anti tamper detection by making everything 'smart', but imagine if you want to ride your bike legally derestricted on private land, surely Bosch has thought of this. The spiel on their website is an absolute joke. I think its just an attempt to look good after that Co2 emissions scandal they were caught up in.

 

[megabobra]

Anyone seen any updates on product offerings that cater for the rim magnet? eplus is still quiet on what was their September release...

 

[Onetime]

Anyone seen any updates on product offerings that cater for the rim magnet? eplus is still quiet on what was their September release...

Yeah, I’d like to know this as well. Hopefully someone will have something soon

 

[Pantofla]

Bosch Smart System Desrestriction - SpeedFun!​

I bought this as a guinea pig, it has no reviews and the company is relatively unknown, but it was half the price of speed box 1.0 so I took my chances and it actually arrived with clear instructions and seems to be, so far at least, a viable option for anyone who has the same issue with the new Bosch smart system:

SpeedFun tuning ebike Furious Evo for Bosch Smart System 2022

2 day delivery from Italy. Super easy to install, best of all it works! Tested for about 30 mins avg speed 20.4mph, top speed (down a small hill) 42.5 mph. That's more like it, well happy! Doesn't feel dangerous at all, just feels more natural and how the bike should be, if any warranty issues arise you simple just remove. My advice to anyone reading this, probably best not to connect to the app as this is how Bosch will likely detect it. I haven't downloaded the app at all because of this fear. I took a risk on this, being a bit of bit of a guinea pig for this relatively unknown company on a device with no reviews at all. With limited options on the market and for half the price of the speedbox 1.0 I can confirm this is so far so good! Will report back if any errors occur.

Thanks for the info, I was looking at this solution, but I was a little suspicious about the price. Speedbox costs twice as much and reviews aren´t very possitive.
Does it show real total kilometers after the ride (ODO)?
Could you report after longer time if there are any errors? I´m planning to buy some tuning chip in early spring for next season.

 

[Hankfury]

Has anyone bought and fitted the speedbox 1.0 for the smart system yet.. Any feedback?

I’ve fitted two…. both worked up to a point…. Both used to cut the motor off completely and then sometimes switch it back on, sometimes I had to reboot the system. I sent the first back because of this problem… I also had my bike plugged into a bike shop computer…. It had myriad faults logged.
The replacement did the same but only roughly once per ride ( 30 mile plus rides ) Then it threw up a code 504 and shut the bike down…. Unfortunately I returned this one too as whilst it was great when working, I didn’t want the stress of being possibly left stranded ( again )

 

[Onetime]

Well that’s a bummer to hear.

 

[Ragnar]

does anyone found over inet any disassembly pics for Bosch smart system motor with wireless speed sensor for wheel rim magnet? just to understand which sensor and a way it can be hacked

 

[irie]

does anyone found over inet any disassembly pics for Bosch smart system motor with wireless speed sensor for wheel rim magnet? just to understand which sensor and a way it can be hacked

One way would be to get the sensor to recognise only every second wheel revolution, but I have no idea how to do that or even if it is possible.

 

[Ragnar]

One way would be to get the sensor to recognise only every second wheel revolution, but I have no idea how to do that or even if it is possible.

what happens if we remove the magnet at all, and see if any assist available, as well as speedometer reading...

 

[Pantofla]

what happens if we remove the magnet at all, and see if any assist available, as well as speedometer reading...

Motor won´t work at all. It needs some feedback to work.

 

[Hankfury]

Well that’s a bummer to hear.

i was also told ( by helpful local dealer ) that He thinks Bosch has a three strikes and yer out policy…. the shop can only wipe the 504 code three times then only Bosch themselves can do it ?
as for the flow app saying you can pedal in limp mode for 90 mins to reboot the system…. That’s a ride I never wanna do .
I’ve read there is a drill hack to circumvent this…..

 

[Ragnar]

Motor won´t work at all. It needs some feedback to work.

going to test next week, as feedback needed not only from a speedsensor but from hall sensor in the system as well, speed sensor needed just to limit power output , I think

 

[BeBiker]

One way would be to get the sensor to recognise only every second wheel revolution, but I have no idea how to do that or even if it is possible.

That's how the LSS and that Badass boxes work.

Badass does it electronically by faking a slower sensor, the LSS is a pure mech solution based on planetary gears.

I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase

------------------------------------ EDIT 2/21/2019 - Hey it's me JD from the future (2 months after this first post). I wanted to add a little info here on how you can obtain your own set of gears that is 3d printed by Shapeways so I created a quick Wordpress site with some info: Guide to the...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Satina]

I just want New Zealand settings 32kph which will not burn the motor or battery, we going to race in New Zealand next year, some of the best MTB parks in the world.

 

[megabobra]

For those with a rim magnet, has anyone simply tried removing it and instead placing a magnet on the chainring? I've confirmed this to work and give power up to >50kph, until cadence is the limit, but for such a simple solution, are there any stories of the smart system picking up on it?

I mean, it wouldn't take much for it to notice the 'wheel' rpm is always identical to the crank rpm... I remember this was done a bit on the e8000 (maybe even ep8?) by moving the speed sensor, but haven't seen anything on the Bosch.