Chain Life

[Macone]

Focus Jam2 with Original KMC-6B/HG64. 1100kms and almost at .75 now. I weigh 116kg's, ride mix of Road, Single Track, Fire Breaks, River trails (probably average 1000m climbing per ride). 90% Trail mode, 5% ECO, 5% Boost. guess I'm getting a new chain this week but fairly happy with how that one performed.

 

[Matt b]

Hi, I have a 2018 comp carbon, large, which needs a new chain. Recommendations please.

 

[DrKrown]

Anyone heard about Wippermann Connex chains?
Just having a look at their website: seems that they produce super high quality (and super high costly) stainless steel chains.
They also have a specific version for ebikes that should be a really strong workhorse.
Maybe I will give it a try.

 

[DrKrown]

Interesting wearing test
https://www.connexchain.com/fileadm...n-wear-test-analysis-of-measurements-2018.pdf

Video
https://www.connexchain.com/en/tests/the-connex-11sx-in-the-endurance-test.html

 

[Tamas]

Anyone heard about Wippermann Connex chains?
Just having a look at their website: seems that they produce super high quality (and super high costly) stainless steel chains.
They also have a specific version for ebikes that should be a really strong workhorse.
Maybe I will give it a try.

I tried Wippermann Connex back in the days when I was running 10 speed. It was expensive (gold) with the shortest lifespan and noisy on the Shimano drivetrain.
The 'ebike specific' 99% of the times only means more expensive...
I would be really curious to find out how much (if any) better those chains are but the only way would be to buy one and use it on the same way as I use the cheap one. But I cannot convince myself to spend that amount on a chain... I can buy 5-6 PC1110 for the price of one of those super high-quality Connex chains and I don't think it will run 5-6 times more. I'm getting ~2000km out of the PC1110 and I cannot imagine the Connex will run 10000km.

 

[Tamas]

Interesting wearing test
https://www.connexchain.com/fileadm...n-wear-test-analysis-of-measurements-2018.pdf

In their own test their own chain came out the best... it was really unexpected.

 

[DrKrown]

In their own test their own chain came out the best... it was really unexpected.

Aha

 

[nicklej]

I tried Wippermann Connex back in the days when I was running 10 speed. It was expensive (gold) with the shortest lifespan and noisy on the Shimano drivetrain.
The 'ebike specific' 99% of the times only means more expensive...
I would be really curious to find out how much (if any) better those chains are but the only way would be to buy one and use it on the same way as I use the cheap one. But I cannot convince myself to spend that amount on a chain... I can buy 5-6 PC1110 for the price of one of those super high-quality Connex chains and I don't think it will run 5-6 times more. I'm getting ~2000km out of the PC1110 and I cannot imagine the Connex will run 10000km.

I was about to refer to your comments about the PC1110 but alas, you got here first
I would consider one of these for "ease" but equally, if it doesn't last as long you'd be upset you spent so much. I am actually going to do what you do, Tamas, and rotate between PC1110's because they're cheap and run well on the Levo

 

[DrKrown]

The 'ebike specific' 99% of the times only means more expensive...

Totally agree with you, but it seems that the chain is one of the components really suffering from the high torque loads of ebikes.
As I said in other posts, my chain seems weared out after few kilometers, and this never happened to me in my analog bikes (both road and mtb).
My worries are not about wearing, but mainly about breaks.

 

[nicklej]

Totally agree with you, but it seems that the chain is one of the components really suffering from the high torque loads of ebikes.
As I said in other posts, my chain seems weared out after few kilometers, and this never happened to me in my analog bikes (both road and mtb).
My worries are not about wearing, but mainly about breaks.

I have the standard KMC chain. Not really wearing too much and i do ride hard. I always ride in eco at 20% and get a good workout. My chain had two links break on me and I was shifting carefully. Chains are expendable. I think it's best to be prepared for a break/replacement rather than try to find one that is indestructible because, sadly, they don't exist...yet!

 

[Tamas]

Totally agree with you, but it seems that the chain is one of the components really suffering from the high torque loads of ebikes.
As I said in other posts, my chain seems weared out after few kilometers, and this never happened to me in my analog bikes (both road and mtb).
My worries are not about wearing, but mainly about breaks.

I understand. As I see it's almost impossible to compare the chain wear between riders. I think wear mostly depends on shifting, riding style, and chain maintenance.
I ride my ebike pretty much the same way as my regular bike. I avoid shifting under load and my 'default' cadence is 80-90. I use all the gears in Eco and Trail modes rather than smashing it in Boost. I keep the chain clean and lubed and - rather unexpectedly - it worked out great with the cheap PC1110 chains.
I didn't have a good experience with the 11-speed KMC chains on my regular bikes so I didn't even consider them on the ebike.

 

[DrKrown]

At the end I ordered a Wippermann Connex 11SE for my Levo.
Installed today with care and following the producer instructions for the missing link.
The cassette is a Sram XG-1150 10-42 and the chainring is the stock one that came with my Levo. Both almost new and in perfect conditions.
Drivetrain worked perfectly until today.

WHAT A MISTAKE I DID!!!
The chain is incredibly noisy at the chainring when on the smallest and the biggest cog, totally unusable. I didn't went out for my ride.
Luckily, I had a cheap backup KMC at home.
Swapped the chain and... voilà, drivetrain smooth and silent again.

Thrown away almost 50 euros for this crappy chain.
Already written an email to Wippermann asking for explanations and refund.

Just wondering how this could happen.
I know many people are very happy with this chain and Chainreaction is full of very good reviews

 

[Tamas]

Thrown away almost 50 euros for this crappy chain.
Already written an email to Wippermann asking for explanations and refund.

Just wondering how this could happen.

Sorry to hear, although 'I told you so' when you asked for opinions before you ordered...

"I tried Wippermann Connex back in the days when I was running 10 speed. It was expensive (gold) with the shortest lifespan and noisy on the Shimano drivetrain.
The 'ebike specific' 99% of the times only means more expensive...
I would be really curious to find out how much (if any) better those chains are but the only way would be to buy one and use it on the same way as I use the cheap one. But I cannot convince myself to spend that amount on a chain... I can buy 5-6 PC1110 for the price of one of those super high-quality Connex chains and I don't think it will run 5-6 times more. I'm getting ~2000km out of the PC1110 and I cannot imagine the Connex will run 10000km."

 

[DrKrown]

Sorry to hear, although 'I told you so' when you asked for opinions before you ordered...

"I tried Wippermann Connex back in the days when I was running 10 speed. It was expensive (gold) with the shortest lifespan and noisy on the Shimano drivetrain.
The 'ebike specific' 99% of the times only means more expensive...
I would be really curious to find out how much (if any) better those chains are but the only way would be to buy one and use it on the same way as I use the cheap one. But I cannot convince myself to spend that amount on a chain... I can buy 5-6 PC1110 for the price of one of those super high-quality Connex chains and I don't think it will run 5-6 times more. I'm getting ~2000km out of the PC1110 and I cannot imagine the Connex will run 10000km."

I know! You were right
Now looking for a PC1110 chain, but AFAIK this comes only with 114 links, and I need 116...

 

[Tamas]

I know! You were right
Now looking for a PC1110 chain, but AFAIK this comes only with 114 links, and I need 116...

Buy the next cheapest SRAM chain that you can get in 116.

 

[steve_sordy]

On the recco of my LBS, I bought a Wipperman Connex 9 speed chain for use on my FS clockwork bike back in 2010. After one ride, I had to take it off because it started with chainsuck. I swapped it for a new version of the chain that had previously been on (probably a cheap Shimano) and no more chainsuck! Dunno why, but I still have the Wipperman Connex in the box it came in. Only done about 15 miles.

I believe that they do well on road bikes.

 

[Dirtnvert]

I haven’t tried one in years after a bad spell with shimano chains but I’m hearing a few good reports on dura ace chains. I’ve been just using the cheap sram chains because they basically weigh the same as the more expensive ones and seem to wear/stretch the same. Reports on the dura ace have them lasting twice as long. I’ve yet to confirm
I’m guess as the motors coming out get more and more torque we’ll need much better drivetrain systems

 

[Frankieboy]

I use a vernier caliper. I measure across a fixed number of links (start at about 5.7"). I start with measuring the new chain and then compare as it wears.

OK it's a bit anal, but I already had the vernier caliper and I didn't have a chain checker. Once I started, going to a chain checker didn't feel like progress.

I’ve been reading through this thread hoping to get some advice on chain maintenance and the best options for chain checkers. Regular cleaning and lubrication seems to be the obvious maintenance option. Having read you post I think I’ll stop looking for chain checkers and get the vernier caliper out. Do you have any tips other than those in your post?

 

[steve_sordy]

Best to start with a new chain. Measure in several places around the chain. Believe me they do vary, I was surprised but they do vary. If you get a reading that is unexpectedly large or small, then check it again. Then once you have a number of readings that you are happy with, take the average.

Vernier calipers look easy to use, but you are looking at measurements in the thousandths of an inch over the distance available to you, so you need good technique.

For those without a vernier caliper (or can't be arsed to use one) and don't mind taking the chain off, then measure it directly, as follows.

Lay the chain out on a flat surface (newspaper on the kitchen worktop?). Pull the chain taut to remove the slack and then measure pin-to-pin over 100 links with a steel tape measure. That will be 50", so 0.5% "wear" will be 0.25". A steel tape measure will easily be able to measure that with sufficient accuracy. It is best done with someone else holding the idiot end to ensure that the centre line of (say) the 10" marker is exactly over the pin. You can then look at the 60" end of the tape and get an accurate reading over 50". In the above example, that would be 60.25". No need to do averages and checking outliers, the 50" distance does that all for you.

O.25% = 1/8"
0.5% = 1/4"
0.75% = 3/8"

And so forth.

 

[Frankieboy]

Best to start with a new chain. Measure in several places around the chain. Believe me they do vary, I was surprised but they do vary. If you get a reading that is unexpectedly large or small, then check it again. Then once you have a number of readings that you are happy with, take the average.

Vernier calipers look easy to use, but you are looking at measurements in the thousandths of an inch over the distance available to you, so you need good technique.

For those without a vernier caliper (or can't be arsed to use one) and don't mind taking the chain off, then measure it directly, as follows.

Lay the chain out on a flat surface (newspaper on the kitchen worktop?). Pull the chain taut to remove the slack and then measure pin-to-pin over 100 links with a steel tape measure. That will be 50", so 0.5% "wear" will be 0.25". A steel tape measure will easily be able to measure that with sufficient accuracy. It is best done with someone else holding the idiot end to ensure that the centre line of (say) the 10" marker is exactly over the pin. You can then look at the 60" end of the tape and get an accurate reading over 50". In the above example, that would be 60.25". No need to do averages and checking outliers, the 50" distance does that all for you.
Thanks very much for the advice.
O.25% = 1/8"
0.5% = 1/4"
0.75% = 3/8"

And so forth.

 

[Frankieboy]

Thanks very much for the advice.

 

[Frankieboy]

Of course I will, I use clean wax as you use for homemade candles together with some Vaseline oil. The oil is very important as it will make the dried up wax flexible so it does not break off in flakes. Next time i do it I’ll photo cover the process and measure the exact mixture. The ultrasound cleaner you can find quite cheap on eBay as well as a rice cooker. The ultrasound cleaner can be used for cleaning all kind of stuff, even glasses ?

Karsten

Looking forward to your recipe, just purchased ultrasonic cleaner, rice cooker, Vaseline oil and candle wax. Can’t wait to get my drive trains looking as good as yours!

 

[khorn]

Looking forward to your recipe, just purchased ultrasonic cleaner, rice cooker, Vaseline oil and candle wax. Can’t wait to get my drive trains looking as good as yours!

I’ll do a write up next weekend when I’m home again.

Karsten

 

[Doomanic]

Do it as a separate post please.

 

[Frankieboy]

I’ll do a write up next weekend when I’m home again.

Karsten

Thank you very much!

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

I think I’m using 116 links on my SRAM PC X1 but will need to double check and get back to you

@Rocket Roche Very interesting reaction to my above post

 

[Rocket Roche]

@Rocket Roche Very interesting reaction to my above post

Sorry about that.... Reaction removed Forum acts up on my ipad for some reason? if I touch the reactions tab by accident when scrolling through posts everything freezes on the ipad screen must have been something to do with that.

 

[jxj]

I know! You were right
Now looking for a PC1110 chain, but AFAIK this comes only with 114 links, and I need 116...

I'm riding a 2018 TL Carbon Comp in Large. I have 116 links in now in the OEM chain (first one) but it looks like I could run 114. Anyone running 114 links without issues? I would like to give the PC110 chains a spin on my first change. I've got about 800 miles on the OEM chain and it is just about .5 on the gauge and ready for a change.

 

[nicklej]

I'm riding a 2018 TL Carbon Comp in Large. I have 116 links in now in the OEM chain (first one) but it looks like I could run 114. Anyone running 114 links without issues? I would like to give the PC110 chains a spin on my first change. I've got about 800 miles on the OEM chain and it is just about .5 on the gauge and ready for a change.

Hey mate, I use a pc1110 on my Levo with an 11-42 set-up at 114 links without issue. Someone else who may have an opinion about the right linkage is @Tamas

 

[steve_sordy]

I know of at least six different ways of getting the correct length of a chain. The one I use is as follows. Put the chain in the biggest gear on the front and the biggest gear on the back. Adjust the chain length until the rear mech arm is pointing forward at 45 degrees. Job almost done; there is another step.....

For those with single pivot suspension or a hardtail, then yes the job is done. For anyone else, you need to fully compress the rear suspension, as in a G out, the wheelbase may increase sufficiently to rip the mech off! So the chain needs to be a bit longer to allow for the extension. If you have air springs, then just let the air out and compress the bike. If you have coil, then you will need a heavy friend or two to assist.

If your chain is too long you will be at increased risk of the chain rattling on the chain stay, or coming off the front ring if you don't have some sort of chain device. Get your chain length right, and with the aid of a clutch mech and a narrow wide ring, then you should rarely if ever drop a chain.