Chain Life

[Tamas]

I've just been reading through this thread and wondering if its worth keeping 2 chains on the go? one soaking in cleaner and one on the bike, swapping them each time a clean is needed? my theory goes that the cassette and front ring will last longer if the chains are taking longer to stretch?

I'm alternating two cheap (11€) PC1110 chains at every 1000km. I have 3000km in the bike and they are not at the 0,75% wear limit yet. I'm keeping the chain clean but I like to keep the process simple. I wash the bike regularly and cleaning the chain with a sponge and dish soap. Dry it with a used t-shirt and lube it with finish line red during summer and finish line green in the wet season. When I take the chain off @1000km I 'deep clean' it with WD40 and rinse it with water. This method worked for me for many years and none of my bikes had premature chain wear.
On my Canyon Strive the first cassette (X1) lasted over 6000km with two chains. On my ebike, I guess the cassette will last ~4.5-5000km with three chains. The factory Shimano steel chainring will never wear out but I'm running 32T Superstar chainring and I will have to replace it when I replace the cassette.

There can be more ways to do it 'right' but always keep the chain clean and lubed, and replace it when it reaches the 0.75% stretch limit.

 

[khorn]

wow, that's impressive! Never heard of ultrasound used like this before, I've just watched a couple of youtube vids and its amazing!! how much does a unit like yours cost? and you cannot mention a secret wax formula without letting us in on the secret?

Of course I will, I use clean wax as you use for homemade candles together with some Vaseline oil. The oil is very important as it will make the dried up wax flexible so it does not break off in flakes. Next time i do it I’ll photo cover the process and measure the exact mixture. The ultrasound cleaner you can find quite cheap on eBay as well as a rice cooker. The ultrasound cleaner can be used for cleaning all kind of stuff, even glasses ?

Karsten

 

[rocky.28965]

I find these chain threads quite interesting.
Ive added a link to another one below.
Its amazing the variation of life/mileage different people can get from the same chain.
This can only be attributed to the way it is used or abused.
One example.
A friend & I had the same ebikes & rode the same tracks.
But he was on his 3rd chain to my one at the same mileage.
Difference was, he used engine oil & I used wax.

Chain Life

 

[khorn]

This is how my driveline looks like after a 2 hour very muddy ride in the forest today, it’s now 130 km since I lubed it and it can easily take another ride before it’s time to re-wax it. No dirt is sticking to chain/sprockets so it’s simply to rinse with water when home again

 

[Decca]

I do use wax where I initially clean my chain in a ultrasound cleaner and then afterwards melt my secret formula wax with the very clean chain inside for 30 minutes. It’s a bit extra work but I have 2 chains for my Levo and preparing one while riding with the other. Using this type of waxing the chain means that no dirt stick to it - this is how my chain looks after 100 km of wet dirty riding:
View attachment 6002

I’m on 300 km with each chain and no measurable wear so far.

My cleaning and lubing kit:


View attachment 6003

Karsten

Exactly the same technique as me. I also put the molten wax and chain in the ultrasonic cleaner (in a cake baking container) to ensure the wax gets right into the pins. Never use oil now. The chain never gets black and the wax is very resistant to mud and water wash off. Similar to you, the molten wax is mixed with paraffin oil to make it softer.

Brand new chains have horrible sticky oil, so I degrease them completely by submerging them in petrol, followed by Surfex degreaser, dried thoroughly in an oven, then dunked in the molten wax in the ultrasonic cleaner.

 

[nicklej]

Interesting to read this thread even though I'm (very) late to the party!
I'm only at 550kms and I had one link snap 2 weeks ago. 80kms later after having it replace had it happen.

Something I noticed is that if you shift just as you stop pedalling and then pedal again, the shift is very smooth.

In 2019, I will be putting around 10k miles on my levo as I plan to use it for commuting and of course recreational use too. Should be fun to get extensive testing in although my wallet is already advising against that

 

[thebarber]

I'm thinking about upgrading to di2 in order to get better shifting and hopefully longer chainlife.
I need to look at the wax ritual aswell

 

[nicklej]

I'm thinking about upgrading to di2 in order to get better shifting and hopefully longer chainlife.
I need to look at the wax ritual aswell

If i clean anything after the ride it is always the chain. Di2 might help but to be honest, i think the biggest cause of chain failure or short life is due to the fact that almost all shifts on an ebike happen under more tension than a standard bicycle. It's weird how smooth my levo shifts if I stop pedalling but under even a small load on the pedals its very clunky!

 

[Mountie]

I considered di2 but it looked a bit of a hassle to hide the battery and modules. I’m using wet lube and have extended the life of my chains over dry lube by 30% so far I’ve found the hollow pin sram to be the most durable chain.

 

[Gary]

i think the biggest cause of chain failure or short life is due to the fact that almost all shifts on an ebike happen under more tension than a standard bicycle.

Except they don't have to.
Ease off the pressure on your pedal stroke same as you would on a regular bike, wait for the assistance to drop (this is audible on a shimano motor, not sure if it is on all other motors) and change gear under no load. it's slightly different to how you do it on a regular bike but once you've sussed it you'll never shift under load again. One bonus of an Ebike is you often have the choice to up the assistance mode rather than have to force a shift under load like you might on a regular bike. eg. when your cadence drops due to a steeper or more technical section of climb instead of shifting down, shift mode from trail to Boost/Turbo and up your cadence increasing momentum and speed and you can then ease off and shift down under no load and go back to trail/Eco.

 

[Thomas]

Anyone tried new E Bike specific chain from KMC and Shimano?

KMC E11 E-Bike 11-speed Chain
KMC E11 E-Bike 11-speed Chain | 11 speed chain Shop

SHIMANO STePS Deore XT CN-E8000
Shimano CN-E8000 11-speed E-Bike Chain with Quick-Link | Chain - 11-speed Shop

 

[Maastricht]

Anyone tried new E Bike specific chain from KMC and Shimano?

KMC E11 E-Bike 11-speed Chain
KMC E11 E-Bike 11-speed Chain | 11 speed chain Shop

SHIMANO STePS Deore XT CN-E8000
Shimano CN-E8000 11-speed E-Bike Chain with Quick-Link | Chain - 11-speed Shop

Does anyone know the difference between the E11 and the X11ET which is supplied with the Levo 2019 Comp?

 

[Mountie]

Anyone tried new E Bike specific chain from KMC and Shimano?

KMC E11 E-Bike 11-speed Chain
KMC E11 E-Bike 11-speed Chain | 11 speed chain Shop

SHIMANO STePS Deore XT CN-E8000
Shimano CN-E8000 11-speed E-Bike Chain with Quick-Link | Chain - 11-speed Shop

The KMC ebike chain only lasted me 180 miles

 

[nicklej]

Except they don't have to.
Ease off the pressure on your pedal stroke same as you would on a regular bike, wait for the assistance to drop (this is audible on a shimano motor, not sure if it is on all other motors) and change gear under no load. it's slightly different to how you do it on a regular bike but once you've sussed it you'll never shift under load again. One bonus of an Ebike is you often have the choice to up the assistance mode rather than have to force a shift under load like you might on a regular bike. eg. when your cadence drops due to a steeper or more technical section of climb instead of shifting down, shift mode from trail to Boost/Turbo and up your cadence increasing momentum and speed and you can then ease off and shift down under no load and go back to trail/Eco.

I actually shift one i completely stop pedalling. Makes shifting much smoother and hopefully will keep my chain in good nick for a few extra miles

 

[Bonz]

I managed to get 2000k’s out of my first chain. 1700 k’s out of second. KMC x11e.
I clean and lube after every ride and ease up when changeing gear.
Also have Di2 which makes for smooth cog changes.

 

[Mountie]

I managed to get 2000k’s out of my first chain. 1700 k’s out of second. KMC x11e.
I clean and lube after every ride and ease up when changeing gear.
Also have Di2 which makes for smooth cog changes.

Any chance of a couple of pics of your di2 setup please. Maybe that is the answer.

 

[Bonz]

Any chance of a couple of pics of your di2 setup please. Maybe that is the answer.

Hi Mountie,
The Merida E160 900e I have comes with XT Di2, uses the main battery. Not sure what’s involved in an after market installation but I’m sure some of the guys using this forum would have tried it on your model of bike. Maybe try a search on your bikes brand for some help.
Shimano have a lot of info on their web site. They have a pdf dealers manual for XT which includes Ebike DI2 with some wiring diagrams. Maybe of some help.
Good luck.

 

[Thomas]

The KMC ebike chain only lasted me 180 miles

Really can't believe that.
If you guys are throwing out the chain at 0.75 mark dont know. 0.75 mark is totally unreliable.
I measured brand new KMC and Shimano chain and Park Tool shown already 0.5 pre stretched.
KMC tool never come close to the worn mark, when Park Tool shown betwen 0.75 and 1.0 mark
Strangely DLC Top Chain from KMC show 0.0 when new. Could barely fit the Park tool.

 

[thebarber]

Do you need each manufacturers tool to measure their own chain, would 1 tool not do all chains?​

 

[thebarber]

Mate sent this last night 3rd ring in only 200miles , warranty claim ???

 

[Tamas]

@3600km I’m still on my first pair of cheap SRAM PC1110 chains without any issues. I think the planned ~4500km is doable. I see no reason to use anything else/more expensive.
Instead of searching for an unbreakable chain developing a good shifting style help more same as @Gary described.

 

[nicklej]

Do you need each manufacturers tool to measure their own chain, would 1 tool not do all chains?​

You should be able to but just one as chains should have a standard spacing between rollers and links. But it is odd what Thomas noted above with the chains.

 

[nicklej]

View attachment 9287
Mate sent this last night 3rd ring in only 200miles , warranty claim ???

I would imagine that is a warranty claim. The sprocket shouldn't shear like that and even through heavy usage normally the freehub body will go before the cassette!

 

[nicklej]

@3600km I’m still on my first pair of cheap SRAM PC1110 chains without any issues. I think the planned ~4500km is doable. I see no reason to use anything else/more expensive.
Instead of searching for an unbreakable chain developing a good shifting style help more same as @Gary described.

Good to hear! Gonna buy 4-6 of them when I get to work so I've always got backups on the go

 

[mark.ai]

I'm currently comparing 3 different chain checkers and the Park Tool CC-2 (with the swing arm gauge) does seem pretty inaccurate - I've had it reading 0.5 on a new chain before and their instructions/webpage say to replace at or before the 0.5% reading for 11 speed chains ...

The Park Tool CC-2 has been showing 0.75 on my current chain for a while, whereas another chain checker has changed it's reading by 30% in that same time!

 

[steve_sordy]

I use a vernier caliper. I measure across a fixed number of links (start at about 5.7"). I start with measuring the new chain and then compare as it wears.

OK it's a bit anal, but I already had the vernier caliper and I didn't have a chain checker. Once I started, going to a chain checker didn't feel like progress.

 

[Thomas]

@3600km I’m still on my first pair of cheap SRAM PC1110 chains without any issues. I think the planned ~4500km is doable. I see no reason to use anything else/more expensive.
Instead of searching for an unbreakable chain developing a good shifting style help more same as @Gary described.

You are totally right. I give the bike to a friend for only 500 m test ride. I thought that he will destroy the drive train and derailleur, thats how hard an load he was shifting under the load.
Some people just don know how to shift. I never shift under the load, even on my light weight road bike, not even on steep climbs if possible. It became very intuitive and easy over the years when you get it.

Regarding SRAM PC1110 chains, interesting. Will have to try this, little worried how this Sram Chain will like Shimano system? . Other way around it is know, that Shimano chain and cassette works better and quieter on Sram system, at least on a road bike.

 

[Thomas]

I'm currently comparing 3 different chain checkers and the Park Tool CC-2 (with the swing arm gauge) does seem pretty inaccurate - I've had it reading 0.5 on a new chain before and their instructions/webpage say to replace at or before the 0.5% reading for 11 speed chains ...

The Park Tool CC-2 has been showing 0.75 on my current chain for a while, whereas another chain checker has changed it's reading by 30% in that same time!

That is exactly what i'm observing for the past years. I get more attentive, when I get 1.0 reading on Park Tool CC-2 or when the swing arm is almost flush. Than I take out KMC tool to see what is what....

 

[nicklej]

That is exactly what i'm observing for the past years. I get more attentive, when I get 1.0 reading on Park Tool CC-2 or when the swing arm is almost flush. Than I take out KMC tool to see what is what....

That is a bit odd then. I don't actually have a chain checker at home but use a park tool one at work - might have to swap it out

 

[Tamas]

You are totally right. I give the bike to a friend for only 500 m test ride. I thought that he will destroy the drive train and derailleur, thats how hard an load he was shifting under the load.
Some people just don know how to shift. I never shift under the load, even on my light weight road bike, not even on steep climbs if possible. It became very intuitive and easy over the years when you get it.

Regarding SRAM PC1110 chains, interesting. Will have to try this, little worried how this Sram Chain will like Shimano system? . Other way around it is know, that Shimano chain and cassette works better and quieter on Sram system, at least on a road bike.

I couldn't find much difference between chains but when I had 10 speed I preferred KMC and on 11 speed I prefer SRAM chains.
I used to run PC-X1 chains for years but my Commencal Meta Power came with PC1110. It is my first ebike and I thought it will be a disaster since this chain is not 'ebike specific' but the disaster didn't come and after 1000km still not stretched to even 0.5%. I've decided I'll get two more for 10€ each. One for alternating every ~1000km and one spare. Shifting is the same as my other bikes - one with GX Eaxle the other with XT 11 speed/Shimano chain. I keep the chain clean and lubricated that's all...
I found that Sram chains work perfectly on Shimano 11 speed system and run quieter than KMC or Shimano chains. Also, I'm running Superstar 'Raptor' chainrings on all my bikes they are quiet and last long.