Chain Life

[Maastricht]

It sounds like an extremely short lifespan, especially when it’s not been under heavy abuse. I still have the stock KMC chain on my Levo being rotated with a cheap Shimano chain and it is not even at 0.5 after more than 700 km. Something must have been wrong from the very beginning.

Karsten

I agree Karsten!

It's actually "funny" that we are all concerned about battery life where we could better be focussed on chain life. If I would need to change a KMC chain every 200 until 250km's as at 300km it's already strechted between 0.75 and 1% then this will cost a fortune.

Bike has now had 6 charges. Guaranteed capacity 75% after 300 cycles or two years. Which would mean I need 50 KMC chains. The e11 EPT costs €52,95 which would mean I would require to invest €2648,- in chains where we are all concerned about a battery of +/- €1000 which is still redicously expensive too.

I filed a warranty complaint at KMC. I am curious about their feedback. @Specialized Rider Care can you maybe add value to this thread in sence how things are intended from a manufacturer point of view? Are my expections unrealistic?

 

[Maastricht]

I agree that expensive lightweight cassettes are not that important on a bike this heavy, we need strong not light in this component.

I see Sunrace makes 11sp cassettes that should work on at least my version of the Levo. I'm off to search if anyone has run them successfully.

I wonder if we would be better off with 10x1 setup on these bikes? More robust chain and gears. I wouldn't miss the gear as long as I could keep at least 10-42, what is in between doesn't matter as much to me on ebikes.

This could be a very interesting solution! I will discuss it with my LBS once I require a new chain and cassette AGAIN.

 

[Akiwi]

Holy Cow, what the f..k are you guys doing with your chains? My bike came with the KMC e bike chain. I changed it at about 2500 Km where it was just at .75. The new one is not showing any signs of stretching yet. I am at 3200 KM (So 700 KM on the new chain).
I weigh 85 + KG and ride mostly off road trails etc. Though I tend to do longer rides and use Turbo sparingly. I wouldn't say I pamper my chain, but I try to keep it clean / lubed.

 

[Maastricht]

Holy Cow, what the f..k are you guys doing with your chains? My bike came with the KMC e bike chain. I changed it at about 2500 Km where it was just at .75. The new one is not showing any signs of stretching yet. I am at 3200 KM (So 700 KM on the new chain).
I weigh 85 + KG and ride mostly off road trails etc. Though I tend to do longer rides and use Turbo sparingly. I wouldn't say I pamper my chain, but I try to keep it clean / lubed.

Well nothing special to be honnest! What you described above I would also expect from a KMC chain. I also cleaned and lubed the chain each time after riding. I guess you are riding the 2018 model. Do you know the exact KMC specification from the original chain? Maybe today's KMC X11ET chain that came with the 2019 model, which I can't find at KMC's website either has a quality issue. I am really not sure but the lifetime is far below my expectations.

 

[Akiwi]

Well nothing special to be honnest! What you described above I would also expect from a KMC chain. I also cleaned and lubed the chain each time after riding. I guess you are riding the 2018 model. Do you know the exact KMC specification from the original chain? Maybe today's KMC X11ET chain that came with the 2019 model, which I can't find at KMC's website either has a quality issue. I am really not sure but the lifetime is far below my expectations.

The bikes specification sais
KMC X11e, EcoProTeQ

 

[Thomas]

KMC now, as they are getting more and more business from E-bike sukers...me being one of them.

 

[Maastricht]

The bikes specification sais
KMC X11e, EcoProTeQ

Thanks! I can find this model on the KMC website. I expect KMC to respond soon on my warranty claim. If I know more I will come back to everyone.

 

[Thomas]

Thanks! I can find this model on the KMC website. I expect KMC to respond soon on my warranty claim. If I know more I will come back to everyone.

Maybe you should post here, what and where did you wright them and we can all send them similar warranty claim. Maybe this will get there attention when they will get 20,50,etc. complaints against there Ebike specific chains.

 

[Maastricht]

Maybe you should post here, what and where did you wright them and we can all send them similar warranty claim. Maybe this will get there attention when they will get 20,50,etc. complaints against there Ebike specific chains.

Hi Thomas,

In my warranty claim which I have send in via the KMC website I included the links to the threads on this forum too. I also pointed out that my cassette became now useless too which I see as a consequential damage due to the KMC chain stretched itself way too much in such short time. I would say it's just simply not fit for purpose but who am I? So I hope that the more people this read and report the same issues they will not treat it as an individual issue.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Mine has just started skipping gears and ghost shifting. So that's realistically about...

600 trail miles
250 road miles

Going into the shop soon for a check over.

 

[Cisco]

Hi there Iv'e attached a pic of the two KMG (marketed) e-chains. According to Merlin the X11E has become the E11 and are the same in all but name.

I'm getting about 5-700 miles before they fall outside the 1% stretch go/nogo gauge I use.

 

[Maastricht]

@All Mountain Coaching and @Cisco thanks for sharing your experiences!

600 until 700 trail miles which is 965 until 1126 km is still pretty fast according to my feeling. In any case I hardly reach one third of that distance so I hope you all understand my disappointment. LBS says just to keep riding until the chain starts slipping over the worn cassette and then change cassette chain ring and chain at once. I am doubting how long this will take as my chain now already stretched by 0,75 and 1% at 300km.

@Cisco, for 11 speed I have heared too that you should change the chain at 0.5%. Do you have the same problem like me when changing the chain at 1% it starts to slip over the cassette?

 

[khorn]

I have a strong feeling that there are not much difference between the so-called extra strong chains especially made for E-bikes and the cheapest versions, if any at all. I would love to see some strength tests of MTB chains as I'm sure the main difference between a 18 Euro chain and a 60 Euro chain mainly is the coating etc.

One of the chains I rotate with is a very cheap Shimano chain that I bought for €15 and it is holding up exactly the same as the stock KMC chain.

Karsten

 

[Cisco]

@All Mountain Coaching and @Cisco thanks for sharing your experiences!

600 until 700 trail miles which is 965 until 1126 km is still pretty fast according to my feeling. In any case I hardly reach one third of that distance so I hope you all understand my disappointment. LBS says just to keep riding until the chain starts slipping over the worn cassette and then change cassette chain ring and chain at once. I am doubting how long this will take as my chain now already stretched by 0,75 and 1% at 300km.

@Cisco, for 11 speed I have heared too that you should change the chain at 0.5%. Do you have the same problem like me when changing the chain at 1% it starts to slip over the cassette?

Hi, Not so far, shifting was ok
2nd chain on 1st cassette. I changed cassette on 3rd chain cos I had a spare hub to use the first cassette on.

 

[Bonz]

I get an average 1900k out of a KMC X11E chain.
Changed the cassette with every 2nd chain.
Changed the chainring at 4500k just in case.
Clean and lube after every ride. I have Di2 which may also help and ease up when changeing gears.

 

[jxj]

Thinking about power and cadence and chain stress tonight. I'm wondering if there is any correlation between our cadence styles and chain life? I tend to spin higher cadence than average, I try to spin 80 to 90 rpm most of the time. I get better than average chain life. I think with lower cadence you would have higher tension on the chain for the same power output. Thoughts and inputs from those experiencing short chain life relative to the cadence you like to ride at?

 

[Akiwi]

I also tend to spin faster than my mates.. Not sure of the figures though. and I get better chain and battery life from it.

 

[Maastricht]

Thinking about power and cadence and chain stress tonight. I'm wondering if there is any correlation between our cadence styles and chain life? I tend to spin higher cadence than average, I try to spin 80 to 90 rpm most of the time. I get better than average chain life. I think with lower cadence you would have higher tension on the chain for the same power output. Thoughts and inputs from those experiencing short chain life relative to the cadence you like to ride at?

Hi jxj, my average cadence lies around 75 rpm. I guess I must have superhuman power.

 

[hokkane4]

I'm wondering if there is any correlation between our cadence styles and chain life?

Sure. With cadence of 50 compared to 100, you have 2x forces going through the chain, ring and cassette. In addition you have smaller cog in use, which also increases the wear. This could be part of the reasons, some here have very short chain and cassette life time?

 

[khorn]

Sure. With cadence of 50 compared to 100, you have 2x forces going through the chain, ring and cassette. In addition you have smaller cog in use, which also increases the wear. This could be part of the reasons, some here have very short chain and cassette life time?

I do not think that you can say it like this as we are talking applied force by the rider. If you provide 150 watts by the rider it will still be 150 watts no matter cadence. I believe that the situation where you stress the chain the most is the situation where rider input momentatily goes from 150 watts to 1000+ watts, on any mtb that is very common when you are riding for example a technical steep climb.

Karsten

 

[hokkane4]

If you provide 150 watts by the rider it will still be 150 watts no matter cadence

Power definition from Wiki:
"Torque forms part of the basic specification of an engine: the power output of an engine is expressed as its torque multiplied by its rotational speed of the axis."

So with double cadence, you have only 1/2 torque (when power is kept constant).

Just forget the physics and think about changing gears up or down. When you do it on low cadence and high torque, it is very noisy and not good for your chain and cassette. Do it with high cadence (thus lover torque) and it shifts nicely.

But it is just my understanding, that it is torque which destroys the power train... and it is just theory, it could have nothing to do with the chain wear.

 

[khorn]

Power definition from Wiki:
"Torque forms part of the basic specification of an engine: the power output of an engine is expressed as its torque multiplied by its rotational speed of the axis."

So with double cadence, you have only 1/2 torque (when power is kept constant).

Just forget the physics and think about changing gears up or down. When you do it on low cadence and high torque, it is very noisy and not good for your chain and cassette. Do it with high cadence (thus lover torque) and it shifts nicely.

But it is just my understanding, that it is torque which destroys the power train... and it is just theory, it could have nothing to do with the chain wear.

I'm not talking about torque from the engine but power input from the rider, my point is that if a rider provides 150 watts it cannot end up with 300 watts only cause of cadence. If so, you have invented a very ground breaking smart machine

Karsten

 

[Kernow]

But of a pointless thread unless people state how many speeds they are running , less gears uses stronger chain etc .
For what it’s worth my sram ex1 8 speed first chain lasted 500 miles , second did a thousand , that’s the difference between winter riding at our local trail centre which is very abrasive and summer all round use on the moors etc .

Now running a kmc 11 speed ebike chain on sun race groupset , to early to say on chain life . Will be changing it Xt 11 speed soon not keen on the sunrace

 

[hokkane4]

if a rider provides 150 watts it cannot end up with 300 watts only cause of cadence

Please check the relation of torque and power again

You can have same power with 1Nm and 1000Nm torque, it is just simple rules of physics.

 

[hokkane4]

I have run now 350km with KMC E10T NPNP eBike (11 speed) chain. No signs of stretching. My tool can only measure 0.75% or 1% so I can't say exact number. But it was far from the 0.75 mark.

I'll rotate 3 chains (change after 500km), hopefully cassette last like in normal mtb (so far 3500km and no problems in shifting).

 

[hbakken]

Hey mate, I use a pc1110 on my Levo with an 11-42 set-up at 114 links without issue. Someone else who may have an opinion about the right linkage is @Tamas

I wondering about the same.
Can I use, without problems..., a 114 link PC1110 on my Levo 2019, size Large, with 32t chainring and 11-42?
Original is 116 links...

 

[jxj]

hbaken,
It works for me on a large 2018 levo with a 36T chainring. I know the 2019 is different geometry, however the stock setup on the large 2018 is also 116 links.

To check if it might work you can put your bike in the lowest gear (big ring) and deflate and compress your rear shock fully. Check your rear mech to see if it has enough or can be configured to give enough travel to accommodate two less links in the chain.

 

[hokkane4]

I have in Vitus eSommet with 444mm chain stay, 11-46 and 32T ring with 114 PC1110 chain (original 116). In Vitus I would say it is almost on the limit when suspension is pushed all the way down (like in picture). But of course, no need to make big jumps with biggest sprocket.

 

[Paul Mac]

A friend of mine bought the 2019 Levo S Works the same time as myself, we both ride together most of the time.
He has been on top on maintenance, but today we fitted on a third chain after the second has shown 0.5 wear.
Chain skipped badly in the smaller cogs.
He has only covered about 1000 miles, and that's a £250 cassette ruined.
He has just ordered the budget cassette as a replacement.
These bikes are expensive!!

 

[2manytickets]

Why is everyone so stuck on using kmc chains? Is there nothing else that would work like a sram?