Rail (750Wh) Bosch Smart V5 update Mileage/Speed error
- Thread starter Paul Mac
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #152
Mate had his done today with the rim magnet.
It has resolved the double mileage issue and surprise, surprise the intermittent walk mode has been resolved also.
Outrageous that Trek smart users have been supplied their expensive bikes in a sub par manner, and that the customers have had to be the ones to highlight all the issues.
It has resolved the double mileage issue and surprise, surprise the intermittent walk mode has been resolved also.
Outrageous that Trek smart users have been supplied their expensive bikes in a sub par manner, and that the customers have had to be the ones to highlight all the issues.
Whilst this might be a great solution, people should generally use someone elses computer if they're searching for Rim Magnets .. otherwise all sorts of weird results come up ..
Jeremybub
Member
Hey all
so you can read my prior post to get all the BS I’ve gone through.
here is the update on my bike
Bo
So you can read my prior post to get all the BS I’ve gone through.
here is the update on my bike from today 2/27/2023
Folsom Trek received and installed the Bosch speed sensor cable and 6 bolt magnet, they took it for a test ride and NO change in Speed or Miles. Trek is at a loss still.
i spoke to Bosch and they also are at a loss, they were 100% confident by installing the Bosch speed sensor cable and magnet which does eliminate any Trek proprietary hardware it would resolved the issue & unfortunately it did not.
so you can read my prior post to get all the BS I’ve gone through.
here is the update on my bike
Bo
Hey all
So you can read my prior post to get all the BS I’ve gone through.
here is the update on my bike from today 2/27/2023
Folsom Trek received and installed the Bosch speed sensor cable and 6 bolt magnet, they took it for a test ride and NO change in Speed or Miles. Trek is at a loss still.
i spoke to Bosch and they also are at a loss, they were 100% confident by installing the Bosch speed sensor cable and magnet which does eliminate any Trek proprietary hardware it would resolved the issue & unfortunately it did not.
Jeremybub
Member
Interesting, Trek remove the Trek sensor cable and magnet today & installed the Bosch sensor cable and 6 bolt magnet and it did not resolve the issue. can you share a photo of your buddy’s Trek Rail with the stem mount Magnet, and sleeve, also my understanding is that Bosch pushes the software to Trek to enable the motor sensor, did your buddy Trek dealer work with Bosch on this?
thanks for the help and sorry for all the question.
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
Sorry to hear that @Jeremybub makes me pissed just reading it.
Makes me 100% certain as I stated before that this is Bosch's software issue and nothing to do with Magnets or Sensors etc
Makes me 100% certain as I stated before that this is Bosch's software issue and nothing to do with Magnets or Sensors etc
Jeremybub
Member
Thanks & Yeah I agree something is a rye & I am super pissed, unfortunately the Trek folks in Folsom got the brunt of it today. It’s like My Rail 9.8 is Trek & Bosch crash test dummy, redo the firmware 3 times, install a Bosch magnet, then swap the sensor wire and another new 6 bolt magnet to Bosch units, all this for the last 3 weeks and it’s yielded the same result NADA. I am meeting with Trek in the morning at 10am to discuss the last two options…
I’ll let y’all know what the outcome is.
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
Yea, I'd be putting some serious pressure on Trek and asking why they let Bosch roll out an update that does not work with Trek smart systems. Surely this issue will affect the latest 2023's Treks as well.
Crash test dummy is an understatement!
- Thread starter
- #159
Guys forget the wired sensors, they don't work.
Valve mounted sensor does work,
mines getting done today.
But yes the Trek dealer has to phone Bosch for a code so they can switch the motor over to read from the valve mounted sensor.
An added bonus is your walk assist will work properly as well.
Valve mounted sensor does work,
But yes the Trek dealer has to phone Bosch for a code so they can switch the motor over to read from the valve mounted sensor.
An added bonus is your walk assist will work properly as well.
Last edited:
Johan Dagertun
Member
But this would not work with TyreWiz installed on a 9.9 right? My 9.9 XX1 is planned for delivery in a week or two.
Edit: what´s the deal with walk assist issues anyway? It works smooth on my 2021 Rail 9.7 today.
Edit: what´s the deal with walk assist issues anyway? It works smooth on my 2021 Rail 9.7 today.
Last edited:
Depending on the version of Tyrewiz you have, I believe it gets its pressure reading from the small secondary holes in the valve stem shaft. So you wouldn't be able to mount the magnet beneath it.
It might .... work if it was mounted on top of the tyre wiz - either straight on top or with a secondary valve nut. But as it wouldn't be supported by the rim, it may spin around - or even be too far away from the motor sensor.
You'd probably have to attach the rim magnet to the opposite side of the wheel - with - creativity ... Unless you can find a nice twin valve rim ... ;-)
scooby82r
Member
Literally just sent Trek CS an email.
I collected my rail 7 on Saturday, ridden it once and have the same issue. I emailed bosch through the app and this was their response. Can't say I'm overly impressed.
Now you can understand why they're struggling to resolve something you'd imagine you could figure out in an hour with a pile of magnets, sensors and access to the Bosch software.
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
Of course saying its fine to carry on using whilst your odometer moves up at twice the standard rate and nothing from them on how they will fix that issue.
From what has been reported a bove today it seems the only element of the speed sensor operation left ( ie its not the magnet or the sensor) is the calculator method used in the motor firmware. That method is probably different for the Rim Magnet/ motor sensor arrangement.........at least as far as how the original calculator method , as implemented, it would seem, only by Trek, is concerned.
All of that suggests there must have been firmware menu options which Trek opted to implement whilst ( it appears) no other brand did.
The difference in the calculator method ( sensor actuation X pye X wheel diameter) would appear to be the same in the new firmware for dynamic speed but modified for total mileage and average speed.......................all of which suggests it was changed to help detect derestriction.
Playing devils advocate I wonder if Bosch do in fact know about a specific Trek only option in the firmware but are unwilling to undo the changes they have made, which could lead to Trek bikes being able to be derestricted (or a t least detected) whilst other brands could not. Otherwise, I cannot believe the software engineers who developed the firmware and update do not know how to fix it.
All of that suggests there must have been firmware menu options which Trek opted to implement whilst ( it appears) no other brand did.
The difference in the calculator method ( sensor actuation X pye X wheel diameter) would appear to be the same in the new firmware for dynamic speed but modified for total mileage and average speed.......................all of which suggests it was changed to help detect derestriction.
Playing devils advocate I wonder if Bosch do in fact know about a specific Trek only option in the firmware but are unwilling to undo the changes they have made, which could lead to Trek bikes being able to be derestricted (or a t least detected) whilst other brands could not. Otherwise, I cannot believe the software engineers who developed the firmware and update do not know how to fix it.
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
What part of the frame does the rim mount magnet take its reading? Where is the rim mount sensor located or does it use the factory mounted Trek sensor?
- Thread starter
- #171
There is no external sensor, the sensor is built in the motor.
The gen4 smart has an inbuilt halls sensor on the back of the actual motor - so you don't need to use a satellite cable/sensor.
You mount a larger magnet on the actual rim (as pictured in the thread elsewhere) attached by the valve stem.
Bosch then have to make the change to swap the system to use the in built sensor (via a code) I have heard it can't be swapped back, but that would most likely be rumour/Bosch policy to stop de-restriction (as it's far easier to de-restrict using the satellite sensor)
- Thread starter
- #173
My dealer told me that now the internal sensor has been activated, he can now toggle between both sensors on his Bosch dealer computer, so you can change back if necessary.
I think we've proposed this as being the issue from the start (even before it became it's own thread...)
I don't think so. I still think it's purely down to how the trek sensor is placed in a different position/angle, combined with a larger magnet to obtain a reading. This doesn't always work and sometimes the magnet needs to be manually adjusted as proposed earlier in the thread as a possible solution to this problem.
Swapping to the Trek sensor/magnet doesn't necessarily cure the problem if we don't know how they've mounted it and in what combination and spacing - ie, done in such a way that the more de-restriction sensitive firmware, still thinks somethings not right so it doubles up.
For all the electronic de-restrictors, it won't matter what sensor feeds into the unit as the unit will output it's own signal which will only be based on pulse frequency, not strength/time/echo's. Though with the Gen4 smart, some will need to vary that signal output to reflect what's expected at given rotation speeds.
For the mechanical de-restrictors, it would be interesting to know if anyone with a planet3 has this problem, or if because of how the magnet is mounted, everything actually works just as before - which as @Paul Mac said earlier, it would be ironic to use a de-restriction device to actually fix this problem, but even more ironic if the firmware mods made to limit de-restriction, actually don't affect some of the bikes which are derestricted whilst affecting the bikes which are standard :-D
Either way, I can't imagine someone at Bosch fecking something up on purpose out of spite for one of their largest customers. Naivety, lack of thought, inexperience - yes, more likely.
- Thread starter
- #175
The secondary issue to come out if this for me, is that the walk mode works now also.
This indicates to me that the Trek wired sensor has never worked properly, even before the new firmware mucked up the mileage .
This indicates to me that the Trek wired sensor has never worked properly, even before the new firmware mucked up the mileage .
Johan Dagertun
Member
What was the problem before?
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
Walk mode was intermittent feeling and not constant push/pull like it should be from the motor.
- Thread starter
- #178
On the 2022 smart system Rails, the walk mode was intermittent.
It would walk forward a few feet, then stop the go forward then stop and so on, making it unusable.
It now works constantly as it does on other bikes .
I always thought my trek was a bit weird with the walk assist when other Bosch Smart bikes worked really well. Makes sense now.
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
It will be interesting to see how Trek is dealing with this Bosch/Magnet issue considering they just dropped all their new 2023 Rails
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