Bafang m820

[TCFlowClyde]

Isn’t this discussion of wanting a big battery sort of defeating the whole reason for a lightweight lower powered bike ? Batteries are heavy, more so than any other part of the bike and to fit a larger battery you will need larger down tubes and larger components, meaning more weight.

Far better to aim for about a 450Wh 2P battery which should fulfil most people’s 2 -3 hours of riding and add a water bottle type add on for those wanting longer rides. My EZesty FAZUA seems to suit this quite nicely and I simply carry a spare battery on any longer rides. My only grumble is that I never use fully both batteries and if I could fit 1/2 a battery as a water bottle, then that’s the next level up of convenience.

If the new CEF50 build comes in at 42/43 lbs ready wet-weight with the integrated, bigger 720 Wh battery, it's definitely worth it to me and my riding style/needs. And is discussion worthy as a M820 thread. (IMHO).

I also contend the 21700 cells, on this particular downntube configuration save a little more weight than would the traditional 18650 cells, all in order to shed even more off overall frame weight. How much, I don't know. Hoping that I can get to 42/43 lbs with pedals, heavier tires (sealant and foam inserts incl.)

The bigger battery may also address the unique needs of 820s higher torque at 75Nm in general.

Just say'n, discussion note worthy in this case.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Not being funny but surely a lot of the existing major brand EBikes with say a Bosch Gen 4 motor and 720Wh batteries are not much more than 20kg if you par down the component specs a tad choosing lightweight components. That extra say 2kgs of the larger suspension and brakes matters little on the trail.

With a true lightweight you will have to choose battery capacity or weight I’m afraid as simply backing off engine power doesn’t really help much. As soon as I up the power on the EZesty to match my friends on their FF bikes, I have to carry a spare battery and be prepared to change it at the 1 - 1.5hr mark. The extra carried weight of the spare battery negates any advantage of my bike being 2kg lighter than theirs.

However if want to simply ride with a group of much fitter analogue riders, I can with the EZesty. If I want to go out for a quick ride on a nippy and more like an analogue bike as an experience, then out comes the EZesty. But I personally will have to put in a lot more energy.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Ready for epic ride
View attachment 103871

Now that is a range extender!,

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Not being funny but surely a lot of the existing major brand EBikes with say a Bosch Gen 4 motor and 720Wh batteries are not much more than 20kg if you par down the component specs a tad choosing lightweight components. That extra say 2kgs of the larger suspension and brakes matters little on the trail.

With a true lightweight you will have to choose battery capacity or weight I’m afraid as simply backing off engine power doesn’t really help much. As soon as I up the power on the EZesty to match my friends on their FF bikes, I have to carry a spare battery and be prepared to change it at the 1 - 1.5hr mark. The extra carried weight of the spare battery negates any advantage of my bike being 2kg lighter than theirs.

However if want to simply ride with a group of much fitter analogue riders, I can with the EZesty. If I want to go out for a quick ride on a nippy and more like an analogue bike as an experience, then out comes the EZesty. But I personally will have to put in a lot more energy.

Well, the target goal for this enduro 820 frame/720 Wh is 40+ lbs...AGILITY and some stealth with a slimmer profile. That's 8-10 lbs lighter then my full-powered Enduro trail rig for lots more agility in theory.

The 42 lbs Trek Fuel Ex-e (size XL, lower end spec) felt damn good and agile...needed more juice and travel...but was frickin NICE!

Maybe, you get super light -40lbs if you go 410 Wh battery on the CEF50 frame? But, I worry that a more powerful 75Nm may consume the battery too fast..
again for me. Plus, I still have my full-powered rig for group riding which is only 20-30% of my riding today time, it's majority solo or group analogue.,

 

[thaeber]

Ready for epic ride
View attachment 103871

I was thinking about that as well, but I was not sure if the front wheel may hit the battery with fully compressed fork. So I decided to buy an Evoc backpack with spine protection and integrated battery pocket. Works well, but the weight is really heavy (~7 kg) with battery, full water bladder and tool / repair kit. Unfortunately, the battery does not get lighter when fully drained

 

[Waynemarlow]

But, I worry that a more powerful 75Nm may consume the battery too fast..

Why, you have the choice of how much you consume by simply not putting your motor in turbo, thus saving 1kg, best value for money you can get.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Why, you have the choice of how much you consume by simply not putting your motor in turbo, thus saving 1kg, best value for money you can get.

Ok...I CHOOSE to build a M820 42/43+ lb Enduro rig with a 720 Wh battey using my rationale and trail needs. And I'm gonna turbo mode selectively, as I do on my full-powered rig, but with more agility.

Purportedly, it's four modes with highest being constant turbo 75Nm, then a shorter duration super-turbo mode 95 Nm peak. I also think much like Fazua60's rocket super-boost-mode, but more affordable, higher power motor that matches the bigger battery. Wish me luck bud...

However, I will start a specific M820 CEF50 with more pertanent info...

 

[Tilt]

Il me tarde de voir votre bike leger très bon compromis ce bike avec m820 mais mois je mettrai une batterie de 410 watts et une batterie bouteille de 250 watts sur les plus long parcours j ai un focus carbone avec 360 watts et une autre additionnelle de 360 watts

I can't wait to see your light bike very good compromise this bike with m820 but month I will put a 410 watt battery and a 250 watt bottle battery on the longest routes I have a carbon focus with 360 watts and another additional 360 watts

 

[temon10]

Il me tarde de voir votre bike leger très bon compromis ce bike avec m820 mais mois je mettrai une batterie de 410 watts et une batterie bouteille de 250 watts sur les plus long parcours j ai un focus carbone avec 360 watts et une autre additionnelle de 360 watts

View attachment 103906

pls write in english

 

[downunderdallas]

pls write in english

Google translate "I can't wait to see your light bike very good compromise this bike with m820 but month I will put a 410 watt battery and a 250 watt bottle battery on the longest routes I have a carbon focus with 360 watts and another additional 360 watts"

 

[LAnton]

Ready for epic ride
View attachment 103871

Great bike

 

[aladdinaus]

I've placed an order to be shipped to Melbourne, Australia. Now I start shopping for other components. This is my first DIY bike, does anyone have a Google sheets or excel file keeping track of what are needed for the bike?

 

[temon10]

I've placed an order to be shipped to Melbourne, Australia. Now I start shopping for other components. This is my first DIY bike, does anyone have a Google sheets or excel file keeping track of what are needed for the bike?

better to wait frameset arrive, others component easy to get.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I've placed an order to be shipped to Melbourne, Australia. Now I start shopping for other components. This is my first DIY bike, does anyone have a Google sheets or excel file keeping track of what are needed for the bike?

Personally, I don't formally keep a list sheet. Others might. Some components I have as spares, other high end parts will come off my full-powered build. Just do whatever makes it easiest or economic sense for your budget.

For me, it's the rear shock size and bigger Enduro geo that seems to change with each new build. So, I bought a Zeb 180 and a RS coil shock 155 at a good discount as US retailers were moving out '22 stock. And I knew it had an ISIS spline, so I bought some nice discounted Hope cranks that I've been eyeing.

Now, I'll wait for the CEF50 frame to get here (in March) for like the internal routed headset to make sure I have the correct size, and the rear shock hardware to size and fit firsthand.

But, If delays happen on the frame production or M820 motor delivery, then I'm prepared to minimize my loses. I put down 25% as initial payment.

Hoping this company has it's top priority put towards this new M820--CEF50 build product line and can provide informed support.

 

[aladdinaus]

I notice that you go over the recommended sizes, which are 170mm for fork, and 210x50mm for rear shock. Bigger front fork is okay but different size rear shock may potentially damage the frame?

Also, why you need to order a new crank arm set? If it really makes the difference, the price seems quite dear for 2 pieces of metal? Can we just order from AliExpress or Alibaba?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I notice that you go over the recommended sizes, which are 170mm for fork, and 210x50mm for rear shock. Bigger front fork is okay but different size rear shock may potentially damage the frame?

Also, why you need to order a new crank arm set? If it really makes the difference, the price seems quite dear for 2 pieces of metal? Can we just order from AliExpress or Alibaba?

Pragmatically, I put on higher-end componentry for higher performance and for overall (small) weight reduction 600-1200 g. Plus, most of us luv to bling out and customize our builds... it's fun and high-performance driven.

I don't race, but I do small jumps and drops, so lightweight quality has performance and durability, and thus, utility. But it can be costly! I look for discounts and wait for sales (sometimes months) in order to save money on a tight budget.

On suspension travel, I'll gain some weight back with the bigger travel upgrades, but it's a softer, more plush ride for harsh trail/Enduro riding in my rocky desert terrain.

Some things I do order from AliExpress like my Shimano XT brakes system and SRAM chains, brake pads, brake rotors and
GX cassette... they're often cheaper here or Amazon, or EBay. But most items on Aliexpress are often heavier and lower quality and sometimes not all that cheaper...

 

[aladdinaus]

My plan is to have a full list of components that I need to buy, adding them to carts and wait for sale . The frame is only manufactured in Feb/Mar and it will take further 4 weeks to ship to Australia, I hope not to buy anything at inflated full prices.

 

[aladdinaus]

Found a parts list for E22 - taserface E22 build log

I will create one for my built and share here soon

 

[TCFlowClyde]

My plan is to have a full list of components that I need to buy, adding them to carts and wait for sale . The frame is only manufactured in Feb/Mar and it will take further 4 weeks to ship to Australia, I hope not to buy anything at inflated full prices.

The high-end, Forestal Siryon EonDrive (really Bafang M820 60Nm tune), no 10-12 sec burst-mode, Diode build, 350 Wh battery, full lightweight spec, large frame 40/41 lbs.
= $14,800 USD. Not cheap!

See review:
Vs.

My high-end, CEF50 M820 75Nm/95Nm peak w/super-burst mode, 710 Wh battery, full lite spec, L-frame 42/43 lb
= $5,500-6,000 USD. Much, much cheaper (60% savings)! Bigger battery and more powerful motor...

 

[thaeber]

I don’t understand the hype on this Siryon bike. The suspension is a very simple medium high single pivot, with a complicated link added to activate the damper. The rest is good looking, but as @TCFlowClyde stated, I expect the CEF50 will provide way mare „bang for the buck“! Almost same weight (if You choose the lighter „36“ stanchion forks and an air damper), more power and much more battery…

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I don’t understand the hype on this Siryon bike. The suspension is a very simple medium high single pivot, with a complicated link added to activate the damper. The rest is good looking, but as @TCFlowClyde stated, I expect the CEF50 will provide way mare „bang for the buck“! Almost same weight (if You choose the lighter „36“ stanchion forks and an air damper), more power and much more battery…

. To be fair, I think the Siryon is actually a modified high four-bar linkage (not sure exactly) on the monoswing arm. Reviewers are saying good lateral stiffness, and amazing traction. Not that aesthetically appealing to me...sorry it just looks a little too odd.

A bit off-topic next, but swingarm related...apologies.

In contrast, the new, beefier, full-powered Ibis Oso, has a similar mid-high level pivot, four-bar monoswing that that reviewers say it's perfect traction and very laterally compliant as well. The swingarm is integrated with the lower motor point and front triangle seemlessly (IMHO) and looks awesome.

If I had the money to burn on my next full-powered purchase, I would spend it here to the Oso--just not the green hue.

Ibis Oso Review: Ibis Goes Electric - Bikers Edge

How did Ibis do on their first ebike? The Ibis Oso is a big, burly, brawler of an ebike. Read more to find out.

www.bebikes.com

 

[thaeber]

. To be fair, I think the Siryon is actually a modified high four-bar linkage (not sure exactly) on the monoswing arm

No it’s not. If You dig into the homepage You can find its a single pivot. The linkage for damper actuation for sure adds stiffness, and may be an improved leverage ratio through the travel, but the rear wheel path remains circular around the pivot. Not a bad thing, but nothing exeptional or newly invented.

 

[thaeber]

In opposite to the Ozo. This is something new, nobody did before. Awesome

 

[Zimmerframe]

Gents, don't get distracted by eye candy and marketing BS !

You have one of the most interesting threads there is on the go with some really cool motor/frame combos enabling all sorts of build opportunities.

The Siryon was an interesting bike. It was fairly original and had/has a focused and capable team behind it's development with some incredible rider feedback which has created a superb bike ! A superb bike which has been plagued with early motor problems, endless display issues from supply to development, endless lies from the top tier (sadly) where honesty would have created understanding and a closer bond with the brand, instead of pushing people away. Some people have been hugely fortunate and have great bikes, but there's a huge trail of disappointment along the way for many.

The suspension is effectively a linkage driven single pivot - which in real world terms works really well.

The Ibis is a DW Link but with an innovative and original interpretation.

Either way, don't head off down rabbit holes of virtual comparison !

Edit : and ignore their weight claims, they're always inaccurate.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Gents, don't get distracted by eye candy and marketing BS !

You have one of the most interesting threads there is on the go with some really cool motor/frame combos enabling all sorts of build opportunities.

The Siryon was an interesting bike. It was fairly original and had/has a focused and capable team behind it's development with some incredible rider feedback which has created a superb bike ! A superb bike which has been plagued with early motor problems, endless display issues from supply to development, endless lies from the top tier (sadly) where honesty would have created understanding and a closer bond with the brand, instead of pushing people away. Some people have been hugely fortunate and have great bikes, but there's a huge trail of disappointment along the way for many.

The suspension is effectively a linkage driven single pivot - which in real world terms works really well.

The Ibis is a DW Link but with an innovative and original interpretation.

Either way, don't head off down rabbit holes of virtual comparison !

Edit : and ignore their weight claims, they're always inaccurate.

You gotta admit the Oso is full-blown porn-queen , but I hear ya! It's all good, not much more to talk about on the CEF50 frame...just waiting for updates and speculating. Intellectual curiosity really, and spirited discussion.

And hoping the M820 is on production schedule too and worked out the kinks with Forestal.

Interesting that the Siryon had setbacks. I figured delays were COVID--driven and possibly a Bafang collaborative conflict. I was more motivated in comparing M820 60Nmb/EonDrive aka Posh M820 v. Beastie M820 awaiting a new steed...hint: the CEF50.

Some irony really here in a side-by-side CEF50 visual contrast to the Siryon (I'm quite happy with former's nicer lines)...Bafang haters, which are legion, may take pause that it's a Bafang motor on the highest pricepoint, much heralded, newest, lighter, mid-powered enduro, E-mtb gem to date, the Siryon. And it looks really, well "fugly" to be honest. A bit vain admittedly. A tad overpriced. Jus'say'n!

 

[thaeber]

Intellectual curiosity really, and spirited discussion

Great entertainment

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Does anyone, (particularly a Bafang vendor) have any insight from Bafang on the DP-E171.CAN's intended application? Especially without a handlebars remote selector...

零部件

Bafang description

bafang-e.com

The CEF50 salesperson paired this frame integrated Bluetooth HMI design with the standard M820 kit DP-EI81.CAN handlebar remote selector/display . She also said that since they're Bluetooth they could be paired together.

I think she's confused, yet one pic she sent clearly has the integrated frame display. If true, seems redundant and unnecessary (two separate systems) therefore, adding unwanted weight and frame cutout. I definitely don't want an empty hole in top tube for obvious reasons! Unfortunately, it happens with some of the DIY manufacturers!

I asked for more clarification, but it's close to early Chinese New Year's celebration (can last 2-3 weeks in my understanding), so I may not hear back from her soon.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Does anyone, (especially a Bafang vendor) have any insight from Bafang on the DP-E171.CAN's intended application? Especially without a handlebars remote selector...

零部件

Bafang description

bafang-e.com

The CEF50 salesperson paired this frame integrated Bluetooth HMI design with the standard M820 kit DP-EI81.CAN handlebar remote selector/display . She also said that since they're Bluetooth they could be paired together.

I think she's confused, yet one pic she sent clearly has the integrated frame display. If true, seems redundant and unnecessary (two separate systems) therefore, adding unwanted weight and frame cutout. I definitely don't want an empty hole in top tube for obvious reasons! Unfortunately, it happens with some of the DIY manufacturers!

I asked for more clarification, but it's close to early Chinese New Year's celebration (can last 2-3 weeks in my understanding), so I may not hear back from her soon.

View attachment 104245 View attachment 104246 View attachment 104247

Ah ha! I got it after sleuthing the Bafang Workbook '23 file. The DP-E171.CAN is part of the M700 410Wh hub drive system. So, looks like she was confused. Hopefully, I can catch her in time to avoid the frame cutout process of production!

To be honest, I can see why it's easy to be disoriented with the plethora of offerings/sh$t that Bafang-e puts out...it can a messy maze! Especially using my little smart phone screen!

 

[temon10]

Also the most important is will M820 can be tuned via Besst Pro like M510 v2 ???

 

[thaeber]

It’s really funny to see all feasible display and button options combined on that frame. Normally the DP-C245 CAN display (wrongly mounted on the left side of the handlebar) would be combined with the remote on the picture below…..