Hi, can you put where you got the FC2.0 driver, thanks.@raggertje @Dado @temon10 @Timmy65
So I got my FC2.0 controller fitted and finally manged to upload a 48V firmware (MMG522C4814F802010.1).
Quick test ride revealed that the power seems to be 'smoother' and no 'on-off' feeling that the FC1.0 controller had
Interestingly the motor is now more 'whiny' which I really don't understand, as I haven't touched anything 'mechanical' in the motor?
Problem is that I can ride for a few minutes and then the power just stopsNo error codes and no loose wires.
If I switch the display off then immediately back on again the power is back, but then 2 minutes later, no power again....
If I put heavy pressure on the cranks (when pedals level i.e. in a horizontal position), the power returns (no need to switch the display off and on)
So I'm wondering if:-
a) I need to recalibrated the controller / torque sensor? or
b) the FC2.0 controller is indeed not compatible with the FC1.0 torque sensor?
Is anyone successfully running an M510 with an FC2.0 controller and FC1.0 (SRxxxxx serial number) torque sensor?
Bafang m510
- Thread starter Puschtrale
- Start date
BESST tool PRO
I got best pro working in offline mode, can change motor parameters, but if I want to store them in the controller I need to go online.Maybe has somebody a login bypass for besst pro?:cool: my normal best versions are working good.
www.emtbforums.com
This is for 48v batteries. Just save the file to .bin
If you're refering to where I purchased the FC2.0 controller then that was from Chili Shen.
OK thanksBESST tool PRO
I got best pro working in offline mode, can change motor parameters, but if I want to store them in the controller I need to go online.Maybe has somebody a login bypass for besst pro?:cool: my normal best versions are working good.
This is for 48v batteries. Just save the file to .bin
If you're refering to where I purchased the FC2.0 controller then that was from Chili Shen.
I have to say, I'm really impressed and surprised with the M510 FC2.0 !
Noise wise, it's slightly louder/higher pitched than a Bosch Gen4 for example, but not in any unpleasant way.
Also on the noise front, it has the Gen4/EP8 rattle from the clutch on rough ground when you don't pedal.
Mine has E,E+,T (Tour), B (Boost) and R (Race). E-Mythique.
Support is consistent with the other motors except if anything the M510 has more lower and mid range support. Even if you ride awfully/Granny Style and find yourself in the wrong gear, it still pulls you through really strongly. Top end support, it feels similar to the Brose/Bosch Gen4 - I've not ridden it enough to really give an exact back to back on that. It certainly gives you as much as you need.
Assistance for effort, it gives more. Slightly too much really compared to what I'm used to but it just means using a lower assistance mode if you want a work out or more distance/altitude - otherwise you'll flatten the battery quicker than you intended to !
Start up, the way mine's set you have to rotate the cranks more on a steep start than the other motors (Startup Angle) - but this could be adjusted with Best Pro as it's not that easy to get going as it is by default.
Walk mode seems to work fine.
As it gives more assistance for effort and has a longer over run than a Bosch or a Brose, it takes a moment to re-adjust so you get nice gear changes ! You have to back off slightly more and slightly earlier, once you've got used to it, it's very natural and easy to ride smoothly.
The motor certainly is the "smoothest" of any motor I've tried with the transition from assisted to unassisted (25kph for me). It feels like it limits power slightly before 25kph but then ramps down after 25kph. The gen4 does something similar and ramps down between an indicated 25kph until an indicated 26.5 ish (GPS real 25). The M510 feels like it ramps down over a pre-set time period combined with a speed range - 2 seconds for example (I'm not sure exactly what it is). If you're absolutely gunning it as you hit the limit, you're still getting a reduced level of assistance afterwards, in my case upto 28kph at times as it smooths the transition rather than just dropping off. It's a really nice way to do it and makes it far easier to push on and ride without assistance than with the other motors :
Its a bit early to say for sure, but I think it reduces power slightly as you near the limit - so if you're the kind of person who rides close to the limit a lot, I suspect de-restricting could have a more significant impact on existing range than it would on some other motors.
The DPC245 is a really nice clear display with all the information you would want. The extra screens with additional data are fantastic with lots of extra battery information you don't get with other systems.
The mode switch is also nice, small and works well.
Bluetooth is easy to setup/connect with "Go" and as that seems to have been re-vamped it works well with lots of useful information and theoretically the options to update firmwares over the air or from a local file (don't know if it works).
Great motor !
Noise wise, it's slightly louder/higher pitched than a Bosch Gen4 for example, but not in any unpleasant way.
Also on the noise front, it has the Gen4/EP8 rattle from the clutch on rough ground when you don't pedal.
Mine has E,E+,T (Tour), B (Boost) and R (Race). E-Mythique.
Support is consistent with the other motors except if anything the M510 has more lower and mid range support. Even if you ride awfully/Granny Style and find yourself in the wrong gear, it still pulls you through really strongly. Top end support, it feels similar to the Brose/Bosch Gen4 - I've not ridden it enough to really give an exact back to back on that. It certainly gives you as much as you need.
Assistance for effort, it gives more. Slightly too much really compared to what I'm used to but it just means using a lower assistance mode if you want a work out or more distance/altitude - otherwise you'll flatten the battery quicker than you intended to !
Start up, the way mine's set you have to rotate the cranks more on a steep start than the other motors (Startup Angle) - but this could be adjusted with Best Pro as it's not that easy to get going as it is by default.
Walk mode seems to work fine.
As it gives more assistance for effort and has a longer over run than a Bosch or a Brose, it takes a moment to re-adjust so you get nice gear changes ! You have to back off slightly more and slightly earlier, once you've got used to it, it's very natural and easy to ride smoothly.
The motor certainly is the "smoothest" of any motor I've tried with the transition from assisted to unassisted (25kph for me). It feels like it limits power slightly before 25kph but then ramps down after 25kph. The gen4 does something similar and ramps down between an indicated 25kph until an indicated 26.5 ish (GPS real 25). The M510 feels like it ramps down over a pre-set time period combined with a speed range - 2 seconds for example (I'm not sure exactly what it is). If you're absolutely gunning it as you hit the limit, you're still getting a reduced level of assistance afterwards, in my case upto 28kph at times as it smooths the transition rather than just dropping off. It's a really nice way to do it and makes it far easier to push on and ride without assistance than with the other motors :
Its a bit early to say for sure, but I think it reduces power slightly as you near the limit - so if you're the kind of person who rides close to the limit a lot, I suspect de-restricting could have a more significant impact on existing range than it would on some other motors.
The DPC245 is a really nice clear display with all the information you would want. The extra screens with additional data are fantastic with lots of extra battery information you don't get with other systems.
The mode switch is also nice, small and works well.
Bluetooth is easy to setup/connect with "Go" and as that seems to have been re-vamped it works well with lots of useful information and theoretically the options to update firmwares over the air or from a local file (don't know if it works).
Great motor !
SchadowMaster
Member
The Motor is factory set with only two-thirds of its power. The last third is still not open.
Use Besst pro to adjust the settings to the highest level.
Use Besst pro to set Level 5 support to 500 percent, instead of 340 percent.
Set the acceleration to 8 instead of 4 at least for levels 4 and 5. You'll reach 25 km/h in half the time that the motor is set to now.
Try the motor, then you will be surprised more and more.
You can also set the Startup Angel to Small.
Bafang does not set the start-up angel to small, Because once you touch the pedal a little, the motor will start.
Therefore, the bike may slip out of your hands if you are walking alongside the bike and touching the pedal or spinning it forward a bit.
I compared it to Bosch Performance line CX Gen 4 and Brose.
The Bosch performs very poorly on flat ground. You don't feel like you get enough support.
Climbing is good but won't beat the Bafang M510 anymore.
Brose performed better than Bosch in my opinion and similar to Bafang M510.
But with M510 FC2.0 you feel the motor pushing you from behind with a similar feel to the rear motors.
The paradigm shift from my point of view between M510 FC1.0 and M510 FC2.0 is the better performance and smoothness on the flat roads.
In my opinion, it should have been a new motor, for example (M520), and not an update to the same Motor.
I use the new bigger display with bluetooth too. it is impressive.
I can control the current support and the speed for each PAS.
Bafang GO + works with the Display via Bluetooth without problems.
It is also theoretically possible to receive an air update.
Caio
Member
You need to adjust the wheel length via BESST tool, the default parameters set for 26" , 27.5" and 29" do not always present to be 100% correct, tires do play a factor in this, causing this little deviation.
I have to say i need a new display now. This C245 looks indeed gorgeous. My C241 is unreadable at direct sunlight, very disappointed with it. Can the C245 show battery level in voltage?
The DPC245 is really nice .. Try and get the v3.0 if you can then you have bluetooth 5.1 (works with Go+) v2.0 has 5.0 so only works with Go (it will connect with GO+, but says its not compatible).
It auto adjusts to different light levels, which you can override and also set the sensitivity levels.
And yes, plus you can also see the cell (bank) voltages - so far the battery % shown is accurate to the charge state, haven't run it flat yet to confirm if zero is zero though !
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Thanks for the quick answer, i wanted to know if there is a possibility to show battery voltage at main screen, during ride, like for example with C18 display. Also those E, E+,T, B, R stands for old 1,2,3,4,5 power levels, correct?
Yes, the power levels correspond, but I'm guessing Vitus picked their own labels with the E,E+,T,B,R - That's not the standard labels. They're normally :
I don't think you can show Voltage on the main screen. There is a page to configure styles, but mine's all greyed out.
I've attached the manual :
Are you sure that battery infos work with all battery or only with bafang battery ? it seem you have the VITUS ? does trail mode work alike bosch EMTB ? It's seem in their power graph that it work between 140% and 300% of assist.
Thanks for that ! I hope to play with the settings more once I've spent some more time with it. For the moment I just want to compare it in it's stock form with the other motors to get an idea what it's like.
I did tune my e8000 a few years ago with more torque, power and the support. It felt faster, but it was also not as refined and when testing back to back, wasn't actually really any quicker.
The Brose does feel slightly more powerful than the Bosch. Mine's pulling 20amps, so peaks at about 820-840w on a full charge. Performance wise, it's slightly faster on climbs.
I'm not sure the Bosch doesn't perform on flat ground though ? On the default settings, it gives a lot less support in Eco than the Brose (but you can dial the Brose down to match). I find the distance/altitude I can get from the Bosch with a 625wh to be massive compared to anything else. Just ride in Eco and try to "surf" in the transition point between assisted and unassisted where it gives you just a tiny amount of support. I can't imagine the M510 with it's present settings will give anything like that, it assists too much - which is obviously great when you want assisting more !
Focus Jam2 6.9 with 625wh :
But it also gives plenty of assistance when you want it to :
Looking forwards to spending some more time comparing them back to back.
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Zimmerframe can you recover your controller software rev from your supplier ? (which codification ?)
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No idea, sorry. Yes, I have the vitus, so that's the BT F16 630. Don't have anything else to try it with.
Still really getting a feel for the modes, but no, I wouldn't say the Trail mode works exactly like EMTB, even though it looks like it would. Generally feels more like the other modes but with more power, though at the same time E, E+ and Trail do all still feel dynamic, a bit like Shimanos Trail mode. If anything E and E+ feel a bit more like de-tuned versions of EMTB mode in the way the power responds to rider input. I think Trail is set slightly high in it's settings by default, so you don't really have to put in much effort to get power out - where as EMTB mode you feel you need to work slightly harder for it to give you the extra assistance.
Need to ride the bikes back to back more, otherwise too much of it becomes subjective and distorted by your memories or other things. The damper in the fork is faulty, so I need to swap the fork out as it's pretty much unrideable other than on trails, which is limiting things really.
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I have asked for it. They said they could e-mail it, but to a bafang dealer - not to me directly.
thanks, can you said us wich software rev is it (visible on HMI after controller hard rev) ?
If i clearly understand. It's seem that trail mode working a beat different than others regarding the range of assist (without taking account of his max power) ?
Just went out for a quick mode test to watch the power.
E+ is certainly the most like EMTB. You have to put slightly more effort in for power out and max power is slightly less, but it's the mode which feels most similar. Peaked at about 480w.
Trail mode is really nice, but it gives power too easily. If it was steep, I was receiving 500-550w for virtually zero effort. At lower speeds there were lower Watts, but it still ramps up too easily. It peaked at about 600w.
Boost and Race both peaked at 725w - so about the same as a Brose 2.1/2.2 with any firmware after 7.4.2 when voltage compensation was introduced and the peak power was dropped slightly to accomodate.
Edit : I forgot .. I also tried really hammering upto the assist cut off and the highest speed I was still getting assist was 35kph (25kph limit) .. really does ramp off smoothly !!
It looks good, in my M600 FC 3.2 the value changes little at first, with stronger pressure no change. Probably that's why the poor feeling of the M600.
I suspect more and more M510 owners will have displays with bluetooth capability, so can use Go/Go+. Go+ certainly offers a lot more than Go and it's a shame they've limited that to Bluetooth 5.1 and not the 5.0 displays.
As there doesn't seem to be any security, I wonder if @Dado @vadII or @PaoloBLEvo have thought about doing an app for the Bafang's ? There's various additional functionality available in Besst Pro which isn't presented in Go or Go+. There's then all the additional data gathering, mapping, tracking, on the fly adjustments they could possibly offer in an app.
As there doesn't seem to be any security, I wonder if @Dado @vadII or @PaoloBLEvo have thought about doing an app for the Bafang's ? There's various additional functionality available in Besst Pro which isn't presented in Go or Go+. There's then all the additional data gathering, mapping, tracking, on the fly adjustments they could possibly offer in an app.
Dado
Active member
Hello Zimmerframe. What is voltage compensatiom with Brose?
SchadowMaster
Member
I have 27,5" tires on front and rear and I also set the tire size to 27.5". The motor does not turn off when I shift to a small gear on the flat ground and rotate the pedals very quickly.
Dado
Active member
Shadow, it was written here many times. Wheel size does not play any role with CAN motors. It just shows on display. Important is circumference.
Why should motor turn off, when you rotating pedals?
Why should motor turn off, when you rotating pedals?
SchadowMaster
Member
The speed limit is set at 25 km/h.
However when I put on a low gear I need to rotate the pedals more than usual to get the bike to move.
(I'm doing this for experimentation because it doesn't make sense to go into low gear on flat ground).
Only in this case, and when I exceed the 25 km/h speed, the motor does not turn off, and there is still a watt consumption of about 20w.
Dado
Active member
As the Voltage of the battery reduces, the power/watts of the bike reduces as the peak Amps is fixed.
A couple of years ago they added "Voltage Compensation" so as the voltage drops, the maximum allowed Amps increases so you maintain consistent power/performance through the whole cycle of the battery.
The reduced the peak amps slightly at full charge to balance out the range from giving more amps at low charge, so the peak power was effectively reduced slightly.
The Mahle 1.1 and 1.2 also have voltage compensation and I think the Bosch.
The M510, I'm not sure yet. It should be easy to check, either monitor and see if the peak amps increase as the battery discharges or monitor boost for example. In my case, it peaks about 725w, if it still peaks at 725w when the battery is low, then there must be voltage compensation. If peak draw is limited to 18 amps, then the Watts will reduce as the battery voltage reduces.
Dado
Active member
Got it. Does make sense.
It is a big difference in max power at full and low battery.
And bet, that M510 has constant current with no voltage comp.
36V is 19A. And it measure the current really well.
But you can try 43V 16A with 48V battery. Soon will try with setup:
Will set pass 0-5 to 0-700W. Expecting throttle would still work on 800w, so throttle will be a boost. Would know I shouldnt hold full throttle for long.
It is a big difference in max power at full and low battery.
And bet, that M510 has constant current with no voltage comp.
36V is 19A. And it measure the current really well.
But you can try 43V 16A with 48V battery.
Soon will try with setup:Will set pass 0-5 to 0-700W. Expecting throttle would still work on 800w, so throttle will be a boost. Would know I shouldnt hold full throttle for long.
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SchadowMaster
Member
Still assisting even over 30 km/h.Ou dear.
This I am hearing for first time.
Motor is assisting even over 25kmh?
Do you mean the wheels circumference or tire circumference.
How do I select the correct option in Besst?
I can assure you that there is no voltage compensation for M510, well so far. I'm using mainly first power level, and it pulls around 3.6-4A here according to HMI. When your battery is below 25% it enters the "limp mode", cutting the power output by basically a half. I measured at first level something around 1.8A. Bike is considerable slower but still rideable.
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