Bafang M500 - BESST and limits

[Kyokushin]

So, I'll tell you my experience:
The 13A firmware is maybe a bit stronger at level 5 when starting uphill, otherwise everything is crap. Difficult to pedal the low Levels are dead, The fun is completely gone.
With 12A firmware it goes much better at all levels you realize how powerful it is, and it is very easy to pedal. The only strange problem is that it shows the original version again (10A).

It seems numbers aren't everything!!

Have you tried installing the 12A firmware for comparison?

I have used both, at first i received 12A and after that 13A. Both from Bafang, but different sources.
For me 13A is just stronger, in fact i am using mostly max 5 assist level, however lvl 1 seems to be comparable in both. On 13A i am around 4km/h faster than on 12A in max speed and it showing higher peak values on display.
And yes - 12A is reporting as stock after flashing. 13A should also have different battery attenuation.

Pick that one what you prefer more for your riding style. It seems Bafang have they're firmware tool and they're coocking different firmwares.
Best option would be to have to coock custom firmware with assists, attenuation and power. I do belive @ornias and the team will rev-eng firmware and write such open-source tool.

 

[thaeber]

So, I'll tell you my experience:
The 13A firmware is maybe a bit stronger at level 5 when starting uphill, otherwise everything is crap. Difficult to pedal the low Levels are dead, The fun is completely gone.
With 12A firmware it goes much better at all levels you realize how powerful it is, and it is very easy to pedal. The only strange problem is that it shows the original version again (10A).

It seems numbers aren't everything!!

Have you tried installing the 12A firmware for comparison?

I‘m surprised, my experience is completely different. Coming from the 10A firmware, everything is much better in comparison.
Preferred support level in 10A was 3 /5, now it is 2/5. 3/5 for the lazy days, 4/5 is only for the tough climbs, 5 only used for extreme technical and steep stuff, too powerful in wet or slippery conditions. The feeling is very natural in my opinion, prefering to pedal on the higher cadence at appr. 70+ rpm. I‘ll definitely not switch back to the prev. firmware, or feel the need of something stronger.

 

[Puschtrale]

I‘m surprised, my experience is completely different. Coming from the 10A firmware, everything is much better in comparison.
Preferred support level in 10A was 3 /5, now it is 2/5. 3/5 for the lazy days, 4/5 is only for the tough climbs, 5 only used for extreme technical and steep stuff, too powerful in wet or slippery conditions. The feeling is very natural in my opinion, prefering to pedal on the higher cadence at appr. 70+ rpm. I‘ll definitely not switch back to the prev. firmware, or feel the need of something stronger.

For me it is exactly the same. Great performance with the new firmware 13A and specially here in the alps we definitly need the new peak power of level 5 for steep and tecnical.single trail uphills ?.
I am really happy with the new firmware ?

 

[thaeber]

For me it is exactly the same. Great performance with the new firmware 13A and specially here in the alps we definitly need the new peak power of level 5 for steep and tecnical.single trail uphills ?.
I am really happy with the new firmware ?

Not to forget the improved battery derating behaviour! Almost full Power down to 20% battery level - compared to only 250W max below 30% and almost no support below 20% with the 10A firmware. Huge improvement!

 

[patdam]

i find a little bit complicate to follow the software evolution and the returns. May be it is more clear if you mention on which equipment you use it. which motor (M500 or 600 ?), which battery (36v, 43V, 48V ? which capacity ?), which controller hard revision ? how many level you use (3, 5, 9 ?), kind of using (short dynamic, long ride), ground (high moutain, hilly, etc..), RPM (50/70 or 70/90)

 

[Puschtrale]

i find a little bit complicate to follow the software evolution and the returns. May be it is more clear if you mention on which equipment you use it. which motor (M500 or 600 ?), which battery (36v, 43V, 48V ? which capacity ?), which controller hard revision ?

As the title of this thread is "Bafang m500 - Besst and limits" we all (hope so) do drive the m 500. The battery i used is the 48v whit the "normal" controller dengfu provided.
It should be clear for all users that this thread speaks about the m500 and NOT m600.

 

[thaeber]

As the title of this thread is "Bafang m500 - Besst and limits" we all (hope so) do drive the m 500. The battery i used is the 48v whit the "normal" controller dengfu provided.
It should be clear for all users that this thread speaks about the m500 and NOT m600.

Same setup, M500 / 48V Dengfu 840 Wh Battery / Bafang factory controller.

 

[Laudix]

I propose to insert in the "Signature" the characteristics of our bikes so that it is clearer for those who read our comments.

 

[Kyokushin]

Mine is also 840Wh and 48V M500.

 

[patdam]

I propose to insert in the "Signature" the characteristics of our bikes so that it is clearer for those who read our comments.

problems: i have one frame and 2 motors, 1 M500 and 1 M600 and i alternate the 2

i saied that because i don't understand why you have different return with same motor/soft ?

 

[Kyokushin]

Guys are comparing to stock (10A) and @SchadowMaster 12A vs 13A.
Its also about the preferences, it seems f/w have sligtly different assistance thresholds on levels.

 

[patdam]

Guys are comparing to stock (10A) and @SchadowMaster 12A vs 13A.
Its also about the preferences, it seems f/w have sligtly different assistance thresholds on levels.

good remark, i have modified my post. The Nb of level and using may be made the difference of appreciations? personally i prefer to use 3 level and if one soft is better for this setting, i will use it

 

[thaeber]

Testing new signature…

 

[thaeber]

Changed Ah to Wh..

 

[thaeber]

Guys are comparing to stock (10A) and @SchadowMaster 12A vs 13A.
Its also about the preferences, it seems f/w have sligtly different assistance thresholds on levels.

Thanks for the hint. True. I never tried 12A firmware, but I‘m very happy with my 13A firmware and will not change it. Never change a running system

 

[Puschtrale]

Thanks for the hint. True. I never tried 12A firmware, but I‘m very happy with my 13A firmware and will not change it. Never change a running system

Here the same

 

[SchadowMaster]

From my personal experience 12A firmware is much better than 13A firmware in all aspects
@Kyokushin @thaeber
+ Easier to pedal at all levels
+ Feel no resistance
+ The motor is more powerful although there is a 1 amp difference
+ More enjoyable, you will notice it in the first minutes

 

[Kyokushin]

I have used 12A and i prefer the 13A. I am just faster on it and mostly use the assistance 5, but thats mine preference.
Maybe assitance wattage is set differntly. For me on level 5 the 13 is stronger than 12A, do you feel the 12 stronger or all levels including 5 (max assistance) or only others?

 

[patdam]

 

[SchadowMaster]

I think acceleration is more important than speed.
The time you need to reach a specific speed (in my case 25 km/h in Germany) before the motor shuts off.
But this is related to various factors, the most important is (Bike gears)
The problem with 13A Firmware is that you feel there is resistance and you need more muscle strength to cycle.
Maybe the fifth level is a little stronger, but the resistance itself is present, and it takes more muscular effort to get this increase in electrical energy.

 

[Puschtrale]

I just did a long test of the new firmware yesterday and for me it is great. We did 46 km with 1460 m of ascent, battery life at home was still 15% and i used only levels 3, 4 & 5 as we did some steep tecnical uphill. Motor gives plenty of power and also under 20% of battery still gives around 250 watt.
Motor with this performance is nearly at the Bosch and Brose (friends drive Specialized Levos, Cube Action Team or Trek rail 10). Of course their motor in steep uphills gives more power then bafang m500 but you can stay close to them with a bit of effort. This wasnt possible with the old firmware (if i am right it was not the 12A but the 10A). For me this motor is just great ?.

 

[thaeber]

I think acceleration is more important than speed.
The time you need to reach a specific speed (in my case 25 km/h in Germany) before the motor shuts off.
But this is related to various factors, the most important is (Bike gears)
The problem with 13A Firmware is that you feel there is resistance and you need more muscle strength to cycle.
Maybe the fifth level is a little stronger, but the resistance itself is present, and it takes more muscular effort to get this increase in electrical energy.

Ok, this sounds like the torque sensing map is different between the 12A and the 13A firmware. @Kyokushin did You post the firmware file somewhere here on the forum? Maybe I‘ll try it to better understand the difference in feeling and support.

 

[ornias]

Ok, this sounds like the torque sensing map is different between the 12A and the 13A firmware. @Kyokushin did You post the firmware file somewhere here on the forum? Maybe I‘ll try it to better understand the difference in feeling and support.

We've already shared a complete github catalog with all known firmwares.

 

[thaeber]

We've already shared a complete github catalog with all known firmwares.

Ok. I‘ll try to download it from Github. Thanks!

 

[Laudix]

sorry ... I can't do it because the bike hasn't arrived yet; you can check the configuration shown by the BESST instrument as per the attached image, I refer to the part relating to the 10 levels of assistance.

They could give us some elements of comparison between the different versions of FW.

 

[Kyokushin]

sorry ... I can't do it because the bike hasn't arrived yet; you can check the configuration shown by the BESST instrument as per the attached image, I refer to the part relating to the 10 levels of assistance.

View attachment 70039

They could give us some elements of comparison between the different versions of FW.

These settings are not readable when you connect the bike. Its only something is besst visible with empty values before you connect.

I think acceleration is more important than speed.
The time you need to reach a specific speed (in my case 25 km/h in Germany) before the motor shuts off.
But this is related to various factors, the most important is (Bike gears)
The problem with 13A Firmware is that you feel there is resistance and you need more muscle strength to cycle.
Maybe the fifth level is a little stronger, but the resistance itself is present, and it takes more muscular effort to get this increase in electrical energy.

This may be workarounded by pushing down the throttle (if someone have). I have been asked the Bafang representative for 13A version but with more sensitive for torque, but have no answer. You may also try to send them this 13A file and ask for same, maybe they will answer and send new version.

It would be great to have possibility to adjust these settings somehow in some alternative software, but it seems will not happen soon if ever (however i have finger crossed for revTeam guys).

 

[SchadowMaster]

I asked them for firmwares but they don't want to send me any one and the argument is that the original software that came with my bike is the best. ?

 

[patdam]

if i clearly understand the difference. 13A needs more human torque to provide more powerful than 12A ? that would mean that 13A have less consumption (and less powerful) for same human torque ?

 

[Kyokushin]

Yes, however imo they are similar at least on lvl 5.
There is also one more point. 13A should have optimized battery attenuation, should less reduce output power when battery is not fully charged

 

[Laudix]

These settings are not readable when you connect the bike. Its only something is besst visible with empty values before you connect.
...

pity they are not visible, it would have been useful.