Levo Gen 2 Are Brose & Specialized Fixing Their Motor Problem ?

[MiTurboComp]

-Technical, enduro, trail, not much downhill.
-everything you mentioned, i ride all year around. +30celsius to -30celsius.
-No maintenance to motor. Normal charging. Washing with water when bike is really dirty.

I'm not surprised at your year round riding temps, Finlanders here in the States are among the hardiest!

Thanks for your positive news and circumstances.

MiTC

I ride only trails (so no commute or that kind of stuff, or I commute with it but via trails...) year around and my home trails are mainly rocks and roots. Not big hills because we don't have any here in southern finland. Have done also some bike park with it. Riding style is fast and no mercy to the bike, all conditions from dry to mud and snow, not colder than -10 celcius. I wash it regulary, specially after muddy rides, with water. Always charge it to full after each ride. Store it at warm and dry place. It's -21 Levo Comp, Gen2 but same motor Gen3 than yours. 2100km's on the clock. Never had any issues with it except freehub broke down and it was maybe my own fault when I replaced tire

Thanks Bndit.
Another confirmation that many problem-free Spesh Turbo (Brose) riders usually don't post since there's nothing to 'report',
and Finlanders laugh at 'cold' temps!

MiTC

 

[High Rock Ruti]

I’ve just invested in a ‘22 Gen 3 (Brose) Levo. This is a sobering forum thread. My van is also the subject of many disappointments aired amongst van forums members. Those forums have helped me navigate it‘s upkeep and maintenance. My van is not fast nor economical by any standards- I just love it’s utility and drive ability.

Beyond ‘luck of the draw’, please share why you believe your Brose has been issue free.

- What type of riding you do (technical, downhill, racing, trail, etc.)?
- Your common riding conditions (wet, mud, dust, heat, cold, etc.)?
- Maintenance habits that have helped (cleaning, storing, charging, etc.)?

Here to learn,

MiTC

High Rock Ruti
I ride trails and punchy technical rock. I've lost 9 total motors across 3 generations of Brose motors. The earlier motors lost drive belts, the current (2021) has lost sprag clutches 4 so far lasting about 250 to 450 miles. I have several other bikes to ride, so I accept the failures in stride. Specialized stands behind their bikes 100% including two full refunds, but Brose is a POS motor. Most of my bikes have Bosch drives, fantastic and despite claims more power than the Brose especially at lower cadence which is critical for punchy ups. Repeating myself "The Levo is the most refined E Bike made". Specialized has hit the sweet spot, as a do everything well "all-rounder".

Just got the Pole Voima, riden 100 miles so far, it's a handful, bought the 3 size 6' tall. The bike is 7 feet long from front to rear leading tire edge to edge, I'll write an inept review soon.

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[Paul Mac]

High Rock Ruti
I ride trails and punchy technical rock. I've lost 9 total motors across 3 generations of Brose motors. The earlier motors lost drive belts, the current (2021) has lost sprag clutches 4 so far lasting about 250 to 450 miles. I have several other bikes to ride, so I accept the failures in stride. Specialized stands behind their bikes 100% including two full refunds, but Brose is POS motor. Most of my bikes have Bosch drives, fantastic and despite claims more power than the Brose especially at lower cadence which is critical for punchy ups. Repeating myself "The Levo is the most refined E Bike made". Specialized has hit the sweet spot, as a do everything well "all-rounder".

Just got the Pole Voima, riden 100 miles so far, it's a handful, bought the 3 size 6' tall. The bike is 7 feet long from front to rear leading tire edge to edge, I'll write an inept review soon.

Warm Regards Ruti

View attachment 100145

This is potentially my next bike, so interested in your thoughts.

 

[Bearing Man]

High Rock Ruti
I ride trails and punchy technical rock. I've lost 9 total motors across 3 generations of Brose motors. The earlier motors lost drive belts, the current (2021) has lost sprag clutches 4 so far lasting about 250 to 450 miles. I have several other bikes to ride, so I accept the failures in stride. Specialized stands behind their bikes 100% including two full refunds, but Brose is a POS motor. Most of my bikes have Bosch drives, fantastic and despite claims more power than the Brose especially at lower cadence which is critical for punchy ups. Repeating myself "The Levo is the most refined E Bike made". Specialized has hit the sweet spot, as a do everything well "all-rounder".

Just got the Pole Voima, riden 100 miles so far, it's a handful, bought the 3 size 6' tall. The bike is 7 feet long from front to rear leading tire edge to edge, I'll write an inept review soon.

Warm Regards Ruti

View attachment 100145

Don't forget to cover the motor if the roads are wet or you will be fitting Bosch number 10!

 

[CruJones]

I ride in Santa Cruz area in USA and ride mainly in dry and dusty weather. Not much rain since I bought my bike, so little exposure to water and I don't ever really wash my bike with a hose. My motor was replaced after about 1K miles, but I think it was always loud because the replacement motor was significantly quieter than my original motor when it was new. Terrain here is mostly uphill or downhill with about only a 1/3 being relatively flat riding. Not sure if that helps you much...

- What type of riding you do (technical, downhill, racing, trail, etc.)?
- Your common riding conditions (wet, mud, dust, heat, cold, etc.)?
- Maintenance habits that have helped (cleaning, storing, charging, etc.)?

 

[High Rock Ruti]

This is potentially my next bike, so interested in your thoughts.

Hello Paul Mac

One of the very few reviews said "best suited for an expert rider" maybe I should have listened, maybe. The size is only cumbersome when trying to turn around in less than 6 to 8 feet. One other quirk is that the slack head angle at (slow speed!!) can go from turning to plowing very suddenly, however being the length of a semi tractor trailer going OTB is unlikely, more likely to hit the handle bars with your belly.

I'm not positive why this happens but the level axel crank path is my first guess, yupe straight line through axels and cranks, no bottom bracket drop to speak of. The bike is surprisingly agile for a Kenevo like monster truck, but handles much better than the Kenevo, which I found numb.

I'm still experimenting with 190mm Rockshox select debonair. Currently no volume spacers, tried 2 then 1 spacer, wide open compression and a couple of clicks of rebound around 63 PSI riding outer Cape Cod flow trail roots no rocks downhill drops off of erosion roots max of 12 inches, I'm getting through most of the 6.5 inches of travel, buttery at the top, but and this is big one, it's jarring to have successive hits with that much travel might be packing up, but I don't think so, could be the rebound is to slow.

On the rear I opted for the coil shock, the Cane Creek, my first coil shock. 450 lbs spring, I'm 210 lbs with gear, according to chart I need a 500 lbs spring, not sold from Pole. Not impressed with the shock So far, but it is super adjustable high/low for compression and rebound with little twisting knobs, and you can really feel each click, so I'm going to chalk it up to user inexperience for now.

Opted for the AXS shifting, like lots of options really inexpensive when you're buying a new bike. I need to calibrate the derailleur, because now it works like shit. Really slow shifting, hunting for gears at times. I'd really appreciate anyone with experience with this derailleur, I've read nothing but praise, which is why I'm assuming calibration. Just occurred to me "youtube!".

The bike is definitely growing on me. I rode the 2021 Turbo Levo pro today and was not as blown away as I was expecting compared to the Voima. Climbing; the Voima is the best climbing bike I've ever ridden, so good in fact I have to remember to stop trying the keep the front wheel on the ground, it's planted.

The voima is not as quiet as the Levo, but nothing else is. 750 battery is getting about 1 mile per 5% of battery down from 7% per mile after 4 charges, so the battery is breaking in. The bike is heavy not positive but 56 pounds with pedals would be close.

This bike is stunningly good looking, in embarrassingly obnoxious shinny gold, sorry I'm an insecure American, couldn't help myself. I hoping I can grow into this big bike. I'm not sure it's going to be rideable on the super techy rock, we have a place inside Boston City limits called Stoney Brook, it's the most challenging tech most people have ever ridden, especially for a rank intermediate like me.

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[Kimmoi]

I shared this video on another thread but i put it here also.
My next bike will be Voima, that's for sure. And Pole's factory is 15km from my home
Money is the only reason why i don't have Voima already.

By the Way; Voima means Power, Strenght, Force.

This video tells what we are talking about. Quality. Innovation. Premium.

 

[KnollyBro]

I’ve just invested in a ‘22 Gen 3 (Brose) Levo. This is a sobering forum thread. My van is also the subject of many disappointments aired amongst van forums members. Those forums have helped me navigate it‘s upkeep and maintenance. My van is not fast nor economical by any standards- I just love it’s utility and drive ability.

Beyond ‘luck of the draw’, please share why you believe your Brose has been issue free.

- What type of riding you do (technical, downhill, racing, trail, etc.)?
- Your common riding conditions (wet, mud, dust, heat, cold, etc.)?
- Maintenance habits that have helped (cleaning, storing, charging, etc.)?

Here to learn,

MiTC

You might consider including how often you have pedal strikes, direct impact to the "skid plate" area that covers the motor , do you ride at the recommended cadence and of course, how much do you weigh. I have lost one Kenevo motor and two Kenevo SL motors all with less than 500 kms in the past two years. I ride 75% techy downhill and 25% bike park (75% techy DH and 25% jumpy flow). 60% dry, 30% perfect, 10% wet and slippery conditions in temperatures that range from 5 degrees to 35 degrees. Our bikes are well maintained and rarely washed and are stored/charged at room temperature. The trails I ride are shown in my signature below. I get the occasional pedal strike and skid plate hit while riding down the trails I ride. I ride at the recommended cadence and I weigh in at 190 lbs. We have two Levo SLs that have not had any motor issues so far. Most other Emtb motors seem to have similar failure rates.

 

[etoni]

love my gen3 levo, most important is dont ride the motor like lift access: turbo, big gear and low cadence.. that ruins all brose motor. ride it like a mtb high cadence 50/100

 

[MiTurboComp]

love my gen3 levo, most important is dont ride the motor like lift access: turbo, big gear and low cadence.. that ruins all brose motor. ride it like a mtb high cadence 50/100

I heard something like this not sure where. Anybody else heard this type of strain on the Brose lead to malfunctioning (not just suboptimal use)?

mitc

 

[Alexbn921]

Low cadence high power creates a lot of heat. Heat compromises the belt leading to failure.

 

[MiTurboComp]

Low cadence high power creates a lot of heat. Heat compromises the belt leading to failure.

Makes sense. So follow Specialized recommendations of keeping cadence above 80-90 rpm.

 

[MiTurboComp]

Good article. Check out Tip 03.

10 Tuning Tips to get the most out of your Specialized Turbo e-MTB

Whether you own a Specialized Levo, Levo SL or Kenevo SL, there's a load of tuning potential at your fingertips. We dive into the details behind the Mission Control app to show you how to set up your Specialized e-Bike and how to get the most performance out of the motor, and the most range out...

flowmountainbike.com

 

[Bearing Man]

Sorry guys, I have to step in before another rumor about Brose motors gets started. These motors are primarily designed for commuter bikes, low cadence, daily grind. So best place to set most power to be delivered is during low cadence. As stated in the posts above. But technically, this is what the motor is designed for. You are not going to overheat or hurt anything by pedalling around at 40 to 50rpm. However, you are going to bust a nut trying to maintain 80 to 90 rpm everywhere. Also, although you are using less power from the motor in high cadence, you are making everything spin much faster, which could be argued... creates more wear and heat!

So how much heat are we talking about? This is a thermal image of a Brose 2.2 fitted to a Gen 3 S-works that had just been ridden up a large hill on the Gold Coast of Australia. Temperature was definitely not an issue. For context, a timing belt fitted to a cars engine, usually sits directly behind a 100 degree C radiator its whole life with no problem.

Don't get me wrong, in low cadence, you will put more load on the motor and you will be using the motors full 85 to 90Nm power output. But again, the motor is designed to do this. Your battery only lasts longer at 80 to 90 rpm because the motor is only giving out 60 to 70Nm. As you can see from the quote below taken from 'tip 3' of the above mentioned article. Specialized are not saying the motor will be damaged, they are saying the motor will be more efficient... Which it will.

"Cadence – don’t grind it​

Once you have your Specialized e-MTB synced up to the Mission Control app or your GPS head unit, you’ll start to get a better understanding of the relationship between your pedalling inputs, cadence, speed and the motor’s power output.

Cadence is a particularly useful metric to wrap your noggin around. Reason being is that while Specialized’s motors will work across a broad cadence range, the sweet spot is around 70-90 RPM. Get within this zone, and you’ll get the best efficiency and the most responsive performance out of the motor.

This 70-90 RPM range is the same with most e-MTBs, though if we’re being really specific, Specialized says the motor will deliver maximum efficiency with a cadence of 85 RPM – that’s the magic number you want to aim for."

And all I am saying, is that you don't have to pedal everywhere like a loony if you don't want to! The only thing that will happen if you want to "grind it" is you will use a little more battery.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

Sorry guys, I have to step in before another rumor about Brose motors gets started. These motors are primarily designed for commuter bikes, low cadence, daily grind. So best place to set most power to be delivered is during low cadence. As stated in the posts above. But technically, this is what the motor is designed for. You are not going to overheat or hurt anything by pedalling around at 40 to 50rpm. However, you are going to bust a nut trying to maintain 80 to 90 rpm everywhere. Also, although you are using less power from the motor in high cadence, you are making everything spin much faster, which could be argued... creates more wear and heat!

So how much heat are we talking about? This is a thermal image of a Brose 2.2 fitted to a Gen 3 S-works that had just been ridden up a large hill on the Gold Coast of Australia. Temperature was definitely not an issue. For context, a timing belt fitted to a cars engine, usually sits directly behind a 100 degree C radiator its whole life with no problem.

View attachment 100269

Don't get me wrong, in low cadence, you will put more load on the motor and you will be using the motors full 85 to 90Nm power output. But again, the motor is designed to do this. Your battery only lasts longer at 80 to 90 rpm because the motor is only giving out 60 to 70Nm. As you can see from the quote below taken from 'tip 3' of the above mentioned article. Specialized are not saying the motor will be damaged, they are saying the motor will be more efficient... Which it will.

"Cadence – don’t grind it​

Once you have your Specialized e-MTB synced up to the Mission Control app or your GPS head unit, you’ll start to get a better understanding of the relationship between your pedalling inputs, cadence, speed and the motor’s power output.

Cadence is a particularly useful metric to wrap your noggin around. Reason being is that while Specialized’s motors will work across a broad cadence range, the sweet spot is around 70-90 RPM. Get within this zone, and you’ll get the best efficiency and the most responsive performance out of the motor.

This 70-90 RPM range is the same with most e-MTBs, though if we’re being really specific, Specialized says the motor will deliver maximum efficiency with a cadence of 85 RPM – that’s the magic number you want to aim for."

And all I am saying, is that you don't have to pedal everywhere like a loony if you don't want to! The only thing that will happen if you want to "grind it" is you will use a little more battery.

yea, I've said it before but im sure its more down to rider weight and other factors like that.. my son never goes above 60 rpm cadence and has not had a motor problem but he weighs 70kg. he also seems to get more power out of it but thats probably also down to his weight, he beats me up almost every climb with half the effort and a lower cadence
all the guys I ride with that have problems are hovering around the 100kg mark.
I know its anecdotal but thats what myself and others I have spoken to see.

 

[Kentish]

Evening all.

My Mrs decided she wanted a used 22 Levo last night.

Found what sounds like a decent bike alloy comp with a few hundred miles on it. Kinda decided we’d probably buy it as I assumed Specialized had sorted the motor issues out.
Had a look on here for the first time in ages and found this thread. Does not look like things have got much better!

Now I bought an 8 month old 2020 Levo in Aug 20 simply because Specialized had extended the warranty a further 2 years. Probably wouldn’t have touched it otherwise.
As it happens, it’s been ok for the thousand or so miles I’ve ridden it.

I suppose my question is, if the 22 Levo is still having issues, has anyone heard of Specialized extending the warranty?

I‘m guessing bike we are looking at is maybe 10 months old so has a little over a years warranty left.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

Cheers.

 

[CruJones]

...

I suppose my question is, if the 22 Levo is still having issues, has anyone heard of Specialized extending the warranty?

...

When I had the motor on my '21 Kenevo replaced I asked if Specialized would extend the warranty and the LBS said they only did that for the ones a few years ago and were not doing that anymore.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

When I had the motor on my '21 Kenevo replaced I asked if Specialized would extend the warranty and the LBS said they only did that for the ones a few years ago and were not doing that anymore.

High Rock Ruti

In a recent phone call to Specialized rider care I was told that each new motor has a two year warranty from date of installation.

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[CruJones]

High Rock Ruti

In a recent phone call to Specialized rider care I was told that each new motor has a two year warranty from date of installation.

Warm Regards Ruti

That's news to me. I hope that's the case. Makes me feel better if it is.

 

[spicker]

Evening all.

My Mrs decided she wanted a used 22 Levo last night.

Found what sounds like a decent bike alloy comp with a few hundred miles on it. Kinda decided we’d probably buy it as I assumed Specialized had sorted the motor issues out.
Had a look on here for the first time in ages and found this thread. Does not look like things have got much better!

Now I bought an 8 month old 2020 Levo in Aug 20 simply because Specialized had extended the warranty a further 2 years. Probably wouldn’t have touched it otherwise.
As it happens, it’s been ok for the thousand or so miles I’ve ridden it.

I suppose my question is, if the 22 Levo is still having issues, has anyone heard of Specialized extending the warranty?

I‘m guessing bike we are looking at is maybe 10 months old so has a little over a years warranty left.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

Cheers.

I've ridden my 22 Alloy Comp over 1,900km and it's been great fun for me. Only issues I've encountered are a busted bar remote which was replaced under warranty, and a rear mech that I destroyed with a small spruce tree. Great bke.

 

[Binhill1]

A friend asked me yesterday about the Levo turbo on offer from Sigma sports i think . As much fun as I have had on my levo I wouldn't recommend one to anyone. In fact I wouldn't recommend any particular Ebike to anyone , spending thousands is a hard decision . I just sent him a link to this thread .

 

[ebikerider]

A friend asked me yesterday about the Levo turbo on offer from Sigma sports i think . As much fun as I have had on my levo I wouldn't recommend one to anyone. In fact I wouldn't recommend any particular Ebike to anyone , spending thousands is a hard decision . I just sent him a link to this thread .

Sometimes not knowing is the way to go. Your friend could just buy a Levo and go have many, many great experiences. Or he could read all the shit posted on forums and be paranoid about a motor blowing up and frequently annoy the dealer every time they hear a squeak. If he can afford the entry fee then get a Levo! Warranty works!

 

[ilostmypassword]

I shared this video on another thread but i put it here also.
My next bike will be Voima, that's for sure. And Pole's factory is 15km from my home
Money is the only reason why i don't have Voima already.

By the Way; Voima means Power, Strenght, Force.

This video tells what we are talking about. Quality. Innovation. Premium.

I visualise this is how my trance is made too

 

[SwissChess]

High Rock Ruti

In a recent phone call to Specialized rider care I was told that each new motor has a two year warranty from date of installation.

Warm Regards Ruti

That would mean an endless motor warranty with the motor failing number we have! I'm on M6 with, 14500 km

 

[Binhill1]

Sometimes not knowing is the way to go. Your friend could just buy a Levo and go have many, many great experiences. Or he could read all the shit posted on forums and be paranoid about a motor blowing up and frequently annoy the dealer every time they hear a squeak. If he can afford the entry fee then get a Levo! Warranty works!

Agree that's what I did although . He's not mechanical and not a mountain biker really . Where I am there are no really decent bike shops to be honest and Ebikes are just catching on . My other mate has had a trek for 4 years and it has never missed a beat . He has not washed or touched anything since he got it .

That would mean an endless motor warranty with the motor failing number we have! I'm on M6 with, 14500 km

I wonder what kind of warranty you would get if you buy a motor ? . In theory you eventually should have to , there's got to be some kind of guarantee. I'm on number three the first one was sent to me so not too expensive. The next one the bike had frame issues so went back to dealer that cost £300 for postage . Not a fortune if yearly , but if it happened more often it would be a night mare. I went to three local dealers they weren't interested as not bought from them one quoted £40 an hour labour costs and Ebikes are not as popular here as some places , well i seldom meet . On the positive side I just had a 17 mile very wet ride today and as usual it never missed a beat .

 

[Tetley]

These motors seem to fail regularly, but what are the main failing components now they have been failing for a few years?
What I'm aware of is shattered sprag clutches caused by pedal strikes, are these uprated now?
Water ingress into the crank seals causing seized bearings and sprag clutches, I don't think this issue has been solved? Stripped drive belt, I think this was upgraded in around 2020?
Failed power cable, my MK2 version quickly failed with split rubber and water ingress shorting out the data connection, the MK3 version has been fine.
It seems riding conditions and riding styles are the main factors, as certain riders get repeated motor failures, 3, 4 or 5 replacements are common, and certain riders never have a failure.

My 2020 mag S motor has done around 3000 miles, and so far has been fine. When it was relatively new, it developed a tapping sound when above 35 degrees, ie after a hill climb. It sounded belt related, but always disappeared when cooled down, and in the last 18 months hasn't ever tapped. No idea what that was!

 

[Binhill1]

These motors seem to fail regularly, but what are the main failing components now they have been failing for a few years?
What I'm aware of is shattered sprag clutches caused by pedal strikes, are these uprated now?
Water ingress into the crank seals causing seized bearings and sprag clutches, I don't think this issue has been solved? Stripped drive belt, I think this was upgraded in around 2020?
Failed power cable, my MK2 version quickly failed with split rubber and water ingress shorting out the data connection, the MK3 version has been fine.
It seems riding conditions and riding styles are the main factors, as certain riders get repeated motor failures, 3, 4 or 5 replacements are common, and certain riders never have a failure.

My 2020 mag S motor has done around 3000 miles, and so far has been fine. When it was relatively new, it developed a tapping sound when above 35 degrees, ie after a hill climb. It sounded belt related, but always disappeared when cooled down, and in the last 18 months hasn't ever tapped. No idea what that was!

Ive been more careful with my latest motor when washing . Pedal strikes not so many but still a few thats down to pilot error. Be a year in December to this one im getting near the mileage now for the previous ones going , 2160 mls on clock . First went 2600 second was changed out at 2000 mls by dealer doing a routine check i had no issues with that one. Definitely less times this past year that i have had to take cover off remove and dry cables , once or twice maybe and think it was TCU down to washing again i would say. New battery to motor cable was fitted with last motor. Im hoping all is ok.

 

[Tetley]

I don't often wash my bike, just brush off the worst mud and GT85 the drive components. My first motor cable failed immediately after washing it, so I'm very reluctant to get any unnecessary water on the bike.

 

[smc_stefan]

I ride only trails (so no commute or that kind of stuff, or I commute with it but via trails...) year around and my home trails are mainly rocks and roots. Not big hills because we don't have any here in southern finland. Have done also some bike park with it. Riding style is fast and no mercy to the bike, all conditions from dry to mud and snow, not colder than -10 celcius. I wash it regulary, specially after muddy rides, with water. Always charge it to full after each ride. Store it at warm and dry place. It's -21 Levo Comp, Gen2 but same motor Gen3 than yours. 2100km's on the clock. Never had any issues with it except freehub broke down and it was maybe my own fault when I replaced tire

Hopefully I will have the same experience with my 23 Levo, just picked it up last week and rode it only twice. Motor is extremely quiet under normal load and barely noticeable under heavy load. Zero noise downhill. I'm a very happy customer so far.

 

[billium]

I found this video on YouTube. I have communicated with these guys in the past. Seems like they know what they're doing, and prices are really reasonable:

This is really depressing.

I was zeroing in on a nice new Levo as my next bike and came here looking to dispel fears about motor reliability for the new gen - but no.
Then I watched the above video and it got so much worse. The video is long but well worth watching for the mechanically inclined.

Highlights:

• The motor has undersized sprag clutches so pedal strikes may cause internal damage
• The crank DOES NOT have proper oil seals on either side ( more like dust caps) so water will get in - WTF?
• They use waterproof grease as part of their bearing 'upgrade' because of above, i.e. they have no fix for water intrusion.

So, the likely reason so many Spec owners have gone through multiple motors is that the the motor was not designed to operate in a wet environment meaning water will get into the crank bearings & cause corrosion and eventual failure.

Of course the fix is easy at the design stage - Google ' Alternator oil seal' to see what they use is cars and lorries at a cost of perhaps 50p each, but adding proper oil seals to the existing case design is probably impossible because there is not enough room around the crank to accept the correct part.

Another what were they thinking design choice!