Levo Gen 2 Are Brose & Specialized Fixing Their Motor Problem ?

[Ou812]

I live in the Scottish Highlands on the rainy side (the west coast). I would say 90% of my riding is done in pretty nasty weather, coming home not covered in mud is a rare occurrence. I’ve put 500 miles on my Levo and so far it’s been awesome, I regularly ride through huge puddles/bogs too. I ride in a group with both Shimano and Bosch powered bikes, we pretty much all ride the same trails and we’re together a good portion of the time. I’m the only one that hasn’t had to replace a motor yet. If/when that time comes my shop can have me in and out in the same day, both the Shimano and Bosch guys waited 3+ weeks for replacements.

 

[MiTurboComp]

Wonderful news OU812! Always good to read.
Please share any cleanup/lube routines you’ve used.
When do you?
How often do you?
What do you do?

 

[Ou812]

Wonderful news OU812! Always good to read.
Please share any cleanup/lube routines you’ve used.
When do you?
How often do you?
What do you do?

Bike is normally washed once a week, low pressure with the garden hose. I just hose everything off, don’t really purposely spray water directly on the motor but if it happens it happens. I use Peatys products to clean the bike, their bike wash and drivetrain cleaner etc then I dry it with my leaf blower. Everything gets wiped down with the chamois to catch any water that the leaf blower didn’t get then it gets lubed. I’ve been using Rex Black Diamond chain lube and it’s probably the best lube I’ve ever used, super impressed with it. After that I wipe everything down with the protect and shine and call it a day. I don’t really do anything special, I treat it just like I would my normal bikes.

 

[MiTurboComp]

Bike is normally washed once a week, low pressure with the garden hose. I just hose everything off, don’t really purposely spray water directly on the motor but if it happens it happens. I use Peatys products to clean the bike, their bike wash and drivetrain cleaner etc then I dry it with my leaf blower. Everything gets wiped down with the chamois to catch any water that the leaf blower didn’t get then it gets lubed. I’ve been using Rex Black Diamond chain lube and it’s probably the best lube I’ve ever used, super impressed with it. After that I wipe everything down with the protect and shine and call it a day. I don’t really do anything special, I treat it just like I would my normal bikes.

Excellent! Simple, smart, consistent. Heard about Peaty’s quality kit.

Forgot to ask, how do you treat your motor on your rides?
Cadence?
Turbo, Trail, or Eco mostly?
Lots of steep climbs? Some? Nada?
No rush … get some sleep.

 

[Ou812]

Excellent! Simple, smart, consistent. Heard about Peaty’s quality kit.

Forgot to ask, how do you treat your motor on your rides?
Cadence?
Turbo, Trail, or Eco mostly?
Lots of steep climbs? Some? Nada?
No rush … get some sleep.

I just ride it, don’t really think too much into it. The mode depends on how much time I have, if I only have time for a quick ride then it’s all turbo. If it’s my normal ride then it’s mostly trail with turbo every now and then on the really steep stuff. I did monitor my cadence one time, spesh recommends above 75 and I was between 75 to 85 the whole ride so I don’t bother monitoring it anymore. I weigh 75kg geared up so don’t know if that plays a factor or not.

 

[davosaurusrex]

High Rock Ruti

In a recent phone call to Specialized rider care I was told that each new motor has a two year warranty from date of installation.

Warm Regards Ruti

I was in a big LBS today and they confirmed to me that this is the case, rolling two year warranty on Brose motors, same as Shimano

Unfortunately I was in there to drop off my Vitus E-Sommet with a failed E8000, they told me that Shimano have no motors in stock, ETA is 3 months..... that Levo is getting awfully tempting!

 

[Ou812]

I was in a big LBS today and they confirmed to me that this is the case, rolling two year warranty on motors, same as Specialized.

Unfortunately I was in there to drop off my Vitus E-Sommet with a failed E8000, they told me that Shimano have no motors in stock, ETA is 3 months..... that Levo is getting awfully tempting!

They still don’t have motors in stock?! My mate went through the same issue over the summer with his Vitus, was told no motors in stock. The shop sourced one from somewhere but it took over a month, I think they got it from a shop in the US.

 

[davosaurusrex]

Apparently not. Mine is from CRC and five years old, I can't see the shop falling over themselves to chase around after one from overseas and I can't say I blame them to be fair

 

[Binhill1]

I was in a big LBS today and they confirmed to me that this is the case, rolling two year warranty on Brose motors, same as Shimano

Unfortunately I was in there to drop off my Vitus E-Sommet with a failed E8000, they told me that Shimano have no motors in stock, ETA is 3 months..... that Levo is getting awfully tempting!

Be great if that's the case . My 3rd motor has done 2400 miles it was fitted 14 months ago . Bike 4 years in June not much original bits left apart from handle bars , TCU and shocks and hope brakes.

 

[davosaurusrex]

My Vitus is down to the frame and half the rear shock, doesn't even have the paint left on it now!

 

[Loe Rider]

Back on topic, I'm on motor 3 after 2 1/2 years. A mate riding his sworks gen 3 Levo in the same conditions has just had motor 2 fitted. All failures were preceded by stiff cranks when pedalling backwards which i am 99% sure was water ingress and a rusty sprag clutch because the stiff cranks were fine the previous ride. Specialized have been awesome and fast with warranties so i can't fault them and i always recommend them.

Having watched the rebuild video before, I am trying a new approach with marine grease on the outside of those poor bearing seals, packed around with a highly technical and specialist tool..... a short length of string. I hope i don't curse myself but it's made it further into the winter than any of my other motors and because its applied externally it won't affect the warranty.

Hope that helps others.

 

[Doomanic]

When did Shimano and Spesh introduce a rolling warranty? Spesh introduced a 4 year warranty on the 19/20 bikes to shore up trust in the brand and anecdotally, Shimano are bad at regular warranty, any extension like a rolling warranty seems a bit of a stretch.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

When did Shimano and Spesh introduce a rolling warranty? Spesh introduced a 4 year warranty on the 19/20 bikes to shore up trust in the brand and anecdotally, Shimano are bad at regular warranty, any extension like a rolling warranty seems a bit of a stretch.

yea, both shops I bought levos from told me this, my 2020 has a 4 year non rolling warranty, Sams 2021 has a 2 year non rolling warranty.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think the laws in the US and possibly down under land, dictate that the two year warranty re-applies to replacement motors - hence why different regions seem to hear different information.

 

[davosaurusrex]

UK based answer but for Specialized I'm going on what Balfes told me yesterday.

For Shimano I know it's true as my Vitus is nearly five years old and if they warranty this one it will be motor number four. What I suspect is this is unwritten so that they can pull it any time, hopefully they will warranty this one as a year old but I'm sure there will come a point where they deem it unreasonable to keep replacing

This is a doubt I have about Specialized, the two year rolling warranty sounds good but how long will they honour it for given the financial difficulties they are in?

 

[Ou812]

UK based answer but for Specialized I'm going on what Balfes told me yesterday.

For Shimano I know it's true as my Vitus is nearly five years old and if they warranty this one it will be motor number four. What I suspect is this is unwritten so that they can pull it any time, hopefully they will warranty this one as a year old but I'm sure there will come a point where they deem it unreasonable to keep replacing

This is a doubt I have about Specialized, the two year rolling warranty sounds good but how long will they honour it for given the financial difficulties they are in?

I don’t think they have a choice in the UK, if I’m not mistaken it’s part of the consumer law here. We just had to replace our tumble dryer, it was only a year old. LG handled everything and my 2 year warranty started over with the new one.

 

[Doomanic]

I would suggest making hay while the sun shines. If Balfes keep replacing your motors under warranty I wouldn’t rock the boat by asking too many questions.

 

[davosaurusrex]

I'm not, just having the conversation on here as thinking of getting a Levo

 

[Binhill1]

When did Shimano and Spesh introduce a rolling warranty? Spesh introduced a 4 year warranty on the 19/20 bikes to shore up trust in the brand and anecdotally, Shimano are bad at regular warranty, any extension like a rolling warranty seems a bit of a

I don’t think they have a choice in the UK, if I’m not mistaken it’s part of the consumer law here. We just had to replace our tumble dryer, it was only a year old. LG handled everything and my 2 year warranty started over with the new one.

You could be right. If you had to actually pay for a motor or a battery there would have to be some sort of warranty with it surely .

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

You could be right. If you had to actually pay for a motor or a battery there would have to be some sort of warranty with it surely .

yes that could be the difference in a warranty replacement and an actual purchased item.
I do a lot of boiler repairs and thats pretty much how it works with those

 

[Dax]

yes that could be the difference in a warranty replacement and an actual purchased item.
I do a lot of boiler repairs and thats pretty much how it works with those

In the uk when I last talked to a specilized dealer, warranty replacement motors are warrantied to the end of the original bike warranty, new motors you buy have a two year warranty.

 

[Binhill1]

In the uk when I last talked to a specilized dealer, warranty replacement motors are warrantied to the end of the original bike warranty, new motors you buy have a two year warranty.

Seems to be some dealers are interpreting it differently . 19 Levos 4 year warranty depending when you actually bought it could mean it's good till 22 /23 ? . Well mine ends June 23 so we should be hearing from people by now or soon if they have had it replaced or had to buy a motor . I certainly would be posting on here the good or bad news. Nobody seems to post if they have managed to buy a cheaper price motor or battery using the Specialized reduction scheme on here which I find strange. Unless I missed it .

 

[cozzy]

If/when the motor on my 20 kenevo fails outside warranty period (feb 2024) then I will certainly look at having it repaired rather than buy a new motor.
It's been reliable for 2.5 years so far though.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

If/when the motor on my 20 kenevo fails outside warranty period (feb 2024) then I will certainly look at having it repaired rather than buy a new motor.
It's been reliable for 2.5 years so far though.

just a warning, two of my replacement motors went beyond repair with sounds of smashing gears and pulleys etc coming from the casings.. I reckon if I had another motor now, I would have it upgraded by bearing man before it had a chance to get in a state.

 

[Bearing Man]

This is really depressing.

I was zeroing in on a nice new Levo as my next bike and came here looking to dispel fears about motor reliability for the new gen - but no.
Then I watched the above video and it got so much worse. The video is long but well worth watching for the mechanically inclined.

Highlights:

• The motor has undersized sprag clutches so pedal strikes may cause internal damage
• The crank DOES NOT have proper oil seals on either side ( more like dust caps) so water will get in - WTF?
• They use waterproof grease as part of their bearing 'upgrade' because of above, i.e. they have no fix for water intrusion.

So, the likely reason so many Spec owners have gone through multiple motors is that the the motor was not designed to operate in a wet environment meaning water will get into the crank bearings & cause corrosion and eventual failure.

Of course the fix is easy at the design stage - Google ' Alternator oil seal' to see what they use is cars and lorries at a cost of perhaps 50p each, but adding proper oil seals to the existing case design is probably impossible because there is not enough room around the crank to accept the correct part.

Another what were they thinking design choice!

As the maker of this video I thought I better point out a few things before you change your mind about owning a Levo.
First of all, for every motor that fails, thousands have no problem at all. 99% of ALL ebike motors fail due to water or dirt ingress. Many new ebike motors use a sprag clutch bearing and whether a sprag bearing or a ratchet and pawl, or a clutch needle roller bearing are used, if you have a hard enough pedal strike, something has to give! It's much better to replace a simple bearing rather than replace a whole drive gear assembly!

No ebike motor is waterproof. Some are slightly better sealed than others, but seals add friction and friction = low battery range. Less battery range than your competitor equals less sales.

I do have to correct you on your statement "They use waterproof grease as part of their bearing 'upgrade' because of above, i.e. they have no fix for water intrusion."

Below is a photo showing a cutaway of a standard Brose motor and a cutaway of one that we have upgraded, you will see that it's not just about the grease, we do add a lot of extra sealing. In fact there are 5 layers of sealing shown below.

People ask us every day, what motor is the best? My answer is always the same. Personally, I think you should buy a bike with your heart, not your head. A bike should be something you love to look at when you walk into the garage, as well as smile every time you ride it! No motor is perfect yet, but if motors failed as often as you read about on forums, we would be a lot busier than we are!

 

[Bearing Man]

Back on topic, I'm on motor 3 after 2 1/2 years. A mate riding his sworks gen 3 Levo in the same conditions has just had motor 2 fitted. All failures were preceded by stiff cranks when pedalling backwards which i am 99% sure was water ingress and a rusty sprag clutch because the stiff cranks were fine the previous ride. Specialized have been awesome and fast with warranties so i can't fault them and i always recommend them.

Having watched the rebuild video before, I am trying a new approach with marine grease on the outside of those poor bearing seals, packed around with a highly technical and specialist tool..... a short length of string. I hope i don't curse myself but it's made it further into the winter than any of my other motors and because its applied externally it won't affect the warranty.

Hope that helps others.

Little known fact: I would just check your Marine grease as most are Aluminium based, this can react with the standard grease found on your normal bearings and turn it back to liquid. This is why a lot of boat trailer bearings fail when people take the grease cap off and pack it with marine grease, then all the actual grease runs out of the bearings and they fail!

 

[irie]

Blimey, live and learn!

 

[Binhill1]

just a warning, two of my replacement motors went beyond repair with sounds of smashing gears and pulleys etc coming from the casings.. I reckon if I had another motor now, I would have it upgraded by bearing man before it had a chance to get in a state.

I thought about that when I got my third motor on warranty spoke to bearing man about upgrading it before i used it . But as it still had the 4 year warranty still with 18 months to run decided against it . Second motor was actually running perfectly but in for a frame on warranty they picked up a error on motor so changed it out as well.

 

[cozzy]

No motor is perfect yet, but if motors failed as often as you read about on forums, we would be a lot busier than we are!

Maybe the busy times are imminent, especially for brose, as the 2019/2020 models / 4 years extended warranty start coming to an end this year along with the 2021 / 2 year warranty bikes.
Im just glad there is a repair option. The reason I wont buy a shimano bike.
Hoping it will be possible to re-cell batteries at some point also.

 

[Dax]

Personally, I think you should buy a bike with your heart, not your head. A bike should be something you love to look at when you walk into the garage, as well as smile every time you ride it!

This is the best e-bike buying advice I’ve ever seen on this forum!