Any answers at Spesh day about motor and moisture issues ?

[brizi2003]

As far as i know they do not, when my 2017 Levo (bought from Evans) motor died and Evans didn't have a clue i found out about Chris and took the bike to him

He explained that the motor would be replaced under warranty but i would have to pay the labour charges as he didn't supply the bike which was fair

Don't know if this is still the case

I don't believe you are correct about this. Specialized warranty includes parts & labour. Specialized pay for replacement parts. Dealers provide the labour but don't get paid by Specialized and the customer should not have to pay either. I have made several warranty claims though my local Specialized dealers and have not paid a penny for labour even though I bought the bike at another dealers. This is how it should be for a global company. And Chris is supposed to be one of the best dealers in the country - you think he'd know this??

 

[TheBikePilot]

If he doesn’t it’s in the knowledge you’ll come to him for your bike next. He works on a long term partnership with you, not a quick sale and see you later..

Whether he does or doesn’t I find him the best bike shop I’ve dealt with. His attitude is to get you back on the trail with minimum fuss and sod any consequences. I’ll bet next bike or part you’d go to him?

He’s a gent and a gem in the community..! ACE bikes in Burpham are also awesome.

 

[#lazy]

If he doesn’t it’s in the knowledge you’ll come to him for your bike next. He works on a long term partnership with you, not a quick sale and see you later..

Whether he does or doesn’t I find him the best bike shop I’ve dealt with. His attitude is to get you back on the trail with minimum fuss and sod any consequences. I’ll bet next bike or part you’d go to him?

He’s a gent and a gem in the community..! ACE bikes in Burpham are also awesome.

I was torn between the 2 but ended up buying from #Acebycycles as know Toby and so far he’s been awesome ! I think Chris is a motor man and Toby more a techy Susp and set up man , definitely recommend Ace !

 

[escrs]

This was back in 2017 and i think Specailzed didnt cover the labour charge back then, so things may have changed, I bought my 2018 Kenevo and 2020 Levo from Chris so Ive not needed to pay for any warranty work on those bikes

 

[brizi2003]

If he doesn’t it’s in the knowledge you’ll come to him for your bike next. He works on a long term partnership with you, not a quick sale and see you later..

Whether he does or doesn’t I find him the best bike shop I’ve dealt with. His attitude is to get you back on the trail with minimum fuss and sod any consequences. I’ll bet next bike or part you’d go to him?

He’s a gent and a gem in the community..! ACE bikes in Burpham are also awesome.

This is quite important. If warranty labour should be provided for free and he is charging customers who didn't buy a bike there then he can probably afford to get you back on the trail at any cost - since you are paying (but shouldn't be?). I've re-read the UK warranty and it says 'you will not be charged for...labor charges incurred in processing the warranty', which I realise could be interpreted differently but my local dealer does not charge for warranty labour on bikes bought from any Specialized dealer.

 

[escrs]

As i already said in 2017 Specialized didn't cover labour costs

Taken for another site

"The original owner shall pay all labour charges connected with the repair or replacement of all parts. Under no circumstances does this Limited Warranty include the cost of travel or shipment to and from an authorized Specialized dealer. Such costs, if any, shall be borne by the original owner."

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1120356-paying-specialized-warranty-service.html

That changed in July 2018 and from then on there were no labour charges

Read this thread and you will see even Specialized Concept stores before July 2018 applied labour charges to warranty work and it mentions dealers are not reimbursed by Specialized for any warranty work they carry out

Specialized Warranty Question - EMTB Forums

Chris is a great guy and wouldn't take advantage of riders, he was following Specialized's warranty procedure in 2017 and even gave me a little discount ( he was my uncle's MX sidecar racing partner) and he updated the firmware, adjusted my gears and took the bike on a test ride to make sure everything was ok and to make sure there were no other issues

This is why i went back to him for my 2018 Kenevo, 2020 Levo and my next e-mtb will come from him, cant beat the service he provides and he is always just at the end of the phone to help solve issues even when he's busy in the workshop or at home relaxing, top guy!

 

[brizi2003]

As i already said in 2017 Specialized didn't cover labour costs

Taken for another site

"The original owner shall pay all labour charges connected with the repair or replacement of all parts. Under no circumstances does this Limited Warranty include the cost of travel or shipment to and from an authorized Specialized dealer. Such costs, if any, shall be borne by the original owner."

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1120356-paying-specialized-warranty-service.html

That changed in July 2018 and from then on there were no labour charges

Read this thread and you will see even Specialized Concept stores before July 2018 applied labour charges to warranty work and it mentions dealers are not reimbursed by Specialized for any warranty work they carry out

Specialized Warranty Question - EMTB Forums

Chris is a great guy and wouldn't take advantage of riders, he was following Specialized's warranty procedure in 2017 and even gave me a little discount ( he was my uncle's MX sidecar racing partner) and he updated the firmware, adjusted my gears and took the bike on a test ride to make sure everything was ok and to make sure there were no other issues

This is why i went back to him for my 2018 Kenevo, 2020 Levo and my next e-mtb will come from him, cant beat the service he provides and he is always just at the end of the phone to help solve issues even when he's busy in the workshop or at home relaxing, top guy!

That explains it - cheers! Specialized dealers definitely seem to pay for the manufacturers short-comings.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Thanks to all that have posted on this thread, we fully understand concern about the longevity and reliability of your Turbo. Naturally a forum post to answer multiple questions is going to be challenging - but here goes...

Firstly - sincere apologies to anyone out there that has had reliability issues - we know your Turbo was a carefully considered purchase and don't take that for granted. Our primary guiding principle is that the Rider is the boss, we stand behind our warranty and empower our service teams to do the right thing. It's great to hear many of you talk positively about the way your retailers have supported you, we'd always recommend you buy from a good local retailer with a reputation for after-sales care.

Secondly - anyone reading this thread is statistically more likely to have had a fault (many of us head off to forums when we have a problem). We regularly monitor failure rates and thankfully the majority of riders aren't having problems, however we do accept that there are an increased number of water-based faults in the UK in particular. On the Levo 2019/20 these are largely due to the power cable seal failing at the motor connection (which is covered under warranty and will be replaced by a newer version) but we continuously monitor warranty issues and investigate in partnership with our suppliers - as you'd expect. Again - apologies if you've been affected.

Thirdly - we have our Global Warranty Policy posted online which contains details of our warranty policy and our Assisted purchase program (as mentioned at the beginning of this thread) for riders outside of the 2 year warranty. Please do take a moment to check it out and download your local warranty policy document - we've done our best to make it clear and simple, there shouldn't be any small print. Service teams are empowered to support retailers and riders outside of the warranty period where there are exceptional circumstances or suspected component batch issues.

On the topic of replacement/refurbished/repaired motors and extended warranties we hear you, we're working on a detailed response to this one.

On the topic of replacement/refurbished/repaired motors and extended warranties we hear you, we're working on a detailed response to this one.
Any update on this subject yet @Specialized Rider Care ?
2 weeks of radio silence so far and counting......

 

[congerball]

Looking forward to the response.... maybe if/when a new Levo motor comes out they can make it backwards compatible with older models 19/20?

 

[miPbiP]

Looking forward to the response.... maybe if/when a new Levo motor comes out they can make it backwards compatible with older models 19/20?

they'll prioritise the product they release and the path forwards not the path back.

 

[brizi2003]

I think the main issue with the Specialized Brose motors is that they are not intended to be serviceable but instead are replaceable as a complete unit. And it looks like the new Levo SL also fall into this category. This is not true of the likes of Bosch - where there are service kits and service centres. Imagine if your frame had to be replaced every time the bottom bracket needed replacement. IMO - equivalent of bottom bracket is inside the motor and the main failure - poor design.

 

[TheBikePilot]

I think the main issue with the Specialized Brose motors is that they are not intended to be serviceable but instead are replaceable as a complete unit. And it looks like the new Levo SL also fall into this category. This is not true of the likes of Bosch - where there are service kits and service centres. Imagine if your frame had to be replaced every time the bottom bracket needed replacement. IMO - equivalent of bottom bracket is inside the motor and the main failure - poor design.

I don't think any Brose motor or Spesh motor has been out of warranty long enough to require a user service. At that point, it will be economically viable to look into service kits for them. Also, they are Belt Drive motors that are apparently a pig to service by users. I would imagine in any case it would need to be sent to a specialist.

Much like modern cars, sadly, you cant tinker too heavily with them without the specialist kit. The old Bosch motors are user-serviceable, but not the new ones to my knowledge.

I'd be really surprised to hear a Mahle/Specialized Motor fails (apart from usual QA) as having seen it close up it seems to be well-engineered for the task in hand.

For a Mag S You would only do a self-service out of Warranty and at the moment the Mag S won't be out of warranty until around October this year. You can't do much for the battery either. Saying you can't replace a BB from a frame isn't comparing apples with apples. These are electrical components that everyone is learning about a bit on the job. It's a massive pain in the rear when it goes wrong but essentially it's electrics and water and grit and crap..All those I'm surprised they last as long as they do in any case..The UK is a special case as well as we ride a LOT in the mud and rain. Most other countries don't experience as much joy as we do in that regard..The SL seems to address the UK issue.

Sure, I think the motor/battery connectors on the Brose Mag S aren't up to the job, but the Mahle/Spesh motors seem bulletproof...Of course, the proof will be in the pudding although I haven't heard or seen any returned/broken motors yet on the forum..

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

On the topic of replacement/refurbished/repaired motors and extended warranties we hear you, we're working on a detailed response to this one.
Any update on this subject yet @Specialized Rider Care ?
2 weeks of radio silence so far and counting......

On the topic of replacement/refurbished/repaired motors and extended warranties we hear you, we're working on a detailed response to this one.
Any update on this subject yet @Specialized Rider Care ?
3 weeks of radio silence so far and counting......

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

On the topic of replacement/refurbished/repaired motors and extended warranties we hear you, we're working on a detailed response to this one.
Any update on this subject yet @Specialized Rider Care ?
3 weeks of radio silence so far and counting......

Hi @Kiwi in Wales - thanks for asking, however regarding refurbishment or extended warranty this is months rather than days away, apologies if I gave the impression that this was around the corner. At the time of writing our motors should be considered sealed units (non-repairable) and we don't see a likely change to this in the immediate-term. Today we work within warranty to service/replace faulty motors - or we use our Assisted Purchase program to reduce the cost of a new motor for riders when warranty has elapsed. (This program is open to any authorised retailer globally, by the way - more details on our warranty pages). The only exception is for our Brose belt-driven motors - under the right circumstances these can be replaced, more to come on this specifically.

We're aware that there are a number of companies globally offering to refurbish out-of-warranty motors - at this time we can't officially endorse them even though we realise they are providing a service that is valuable to some.

 

[Mikerb]

I understand all components traditionally have a time period warranty but that precedent seems less sensible to me for motors. A more sensible approach could be based on mileage especially as the bike records that information. Maybe a combination of time lapsed and mileage is the right solution. Brose must know the expected life of the motor.

 

[Mikerb]

I do far less mileage than some that post here and reckon my mileage at the warranty cut off will probably be about 1200 miles. I would guess the motor should be capable of a lot more than that but of course every mechanical/electrical device can develop a fault. Should a fault develop after 2 years I have to accept the cost to repair/replace despite the fact its mileage is probably a fraction of normal motor life expectancy. As a customer a motor warranty of 5 years or 10k miles, whichever comes sooner, would not only give me more confidence but also make it more tenable to part ex and buy new again say after 2 or 3 years of ownership.

 

[StuR]

Hi @Kiwi in Wales - thanks for asking, however regarding refurbishment or extended warranty this is months rather than days away, apologies if I gave the impression that this was around the corner. At the time of writing our motors should be considered sealed units (non-repairable) and we don't see a likely change to this in the immediate-term. Today we work within warranty to service/replace faulty motors - or we use our Assisted Purchase program to reduce the cost of a new motor for riders when warranty has elapsed. (This program is open to any authorised retailer globally, by the way - more details on our warranty pages). The only exception is for our Brose belt-driven motors - under the right circumstances these can be replaced, more to come on this specifically.

We're aware that there are a number of companies globally offering to refurbish out-of-warranty motors - at this time we can't officially endorse them even though we realise they are providing a service that is valuable to some.

Disappointed.
Not really a confidence inspiring reply.

 

[TheBikePilot]

I do far less mileage than some that post here and reckon my mileage at the warranty cut off will probably be about 1200 miles. I would guess the motor should be capable of a lot more than that but of course every mechanical/electrical device can develop a fault. Should a fault develop after 2 years I have to accept the cost to repair/replace despite the fact its mileage is probably a fraction of normal motor life expectancy. As a customer a motor warranty of 5 years or 10k miles, whichever comes sooner, would not only give me more confidence but also make it more tenable to part ex and buy new again say after 2 or 3 years of ownership.

The only problem I see with mileage based warranty is all that it can be hacked. Even a Tesla can be hacked, and they are.

My understanding is Spesh deal with each claim on an individual basis. To me, time is the line in the sand and there has to be one.

How much does an annual service on a car cost outside 2 years? I’d say £4-500. Third party Companies will soon be offering motor servicing as well as bike shops being able to do this.

I think we are at the start of this evolution and as the market grows so will the support aside from the manufacturer warranty.

What we are all concerned about is can I flog my bike when I want to upgrade or is this going to cost me £800 for a new motor or battery.

Unlike other brands, to me, Specialized are engaging directly with riders which would imply if you have an individual issue I am sure a deal would be made. I don’t feel like they took my money and I’m on my own. It’s more than any other brand I’ve dealt with.

It’s not perfect, but they care. This huge multinational seem to really care about you, the rider. That’s the impression I get.

 

[Mikerb]

Yes I am not saying any change to the warranty arrangements would be straightforward but I think the principle should be set first and then work through the problems it may bring up. For example I think there are ways to avoid mileage hacking and one way would be to improve the intelligence and connectivity of the Levo "brain" such that it can connect direct to a Specialized database...maybe as an extension of Mission Control. In that way owners could download their own software updates but also upload motor specs at any time to a central database. Or stats like mileage could be auto grabbed by the database everytime you connected to Mission Control.

 

[TheBikePilot]

Yes I am not saying any change to the warranty arrangements would be straightforward but I think the principle should be set first and then work through the problems it may bring up. For example I think there are ways to avoid mileage hacking and one way would be to improve the intelligence and connectivity of the Levo "brain" such that it can connect direct to a Specialized database...maybe as an extension of Mission Control. In that way owners could download their own software updates but also upload motor specs at any time to a central database. Or stats like mileage could be auto grabbed by the database everytime you connected to Mission Control.

Trouble is that relies on each user sending data to Spesh each ride. Or at least it then seeming like there is some big brother type stuff going on, which there certainly isn't right now. Asking for users to do that might imply Spesh want/need data for a warranty claim which, to date, they don't. At the Livestream someone asked this exact question regarding privacy. They just want to keep you on the trail. And try and improve that experience. At least that's my take on their attitude.

What your implying is as a low use rider you shouldn't fall out of the warranty for low mileage. This to me is a benchmark. Apple will warranty a phone if it's used 24 hours a day or 1 day but the time is for a year. As I say and was mentioned in the Livestream if your just out of warranty each case is dealt with individually. If it's patently obvious the bike hasn't been used much I would bet the farm on them replacing this for you. My bike, for example, I expect to pay...!

I think 2 years for a motor that's basically been driven through wet mud, dust & water is pretty good. As I have mentioned before, on a dirtbike after 2 months you're on your own, if you are lucky..You can't argue it's not reasonable.

Sure, things on the Brose Mag S could be better but they've stood by their errors. I've not read anywhere they've had an issue where Specialized have been unreasonable. Most if not are all concerns are about how this affects the resale value. Re-Sale on any bike out of warranty is always a HUGE drop, as you don't have that invaluable guarantee which is why most of us buy new. I am sure a market will develop for extended warranty, as there is in the car industry.

The Mahle motor seems bulletproof. Well at least as good as I could ever see it being made, if I was designing it myself. Minimal connections, and all marine grade inputs.

I think each brand is on a tightrope with regards to privacy against the user doing what they want with a bike. Many de-restrict which is outside of the manufacturers' recommendation and it's still dealt with.

Whatever your take on Specialized they have the best Warranty scheme in the industry. I'm not a fan boy or a shill. I have met most of the guys involved in making the bikes and trust me when I say, they give a sh!t.

 

[Mikerb]

No...it does not have to be big brother. you could opt in or out of having mileage data captured via Mission Control. If you think it could be a benefit..opt in...if you consider it an intrusion of privacy ..opt out....with opt out as the default. That said I fully agree with all your positive comments about Spesh as an organisation. I have had zero faults on my bike after 10 months and 550 miles apart from the forks not operating correctly and that was sorted by a SRAM service. Like others I had the motor cable starting to split but identified that and dealt with it before it caused any problem.........…...and Spesh were very helpful in supplying me with the new re designed cable. This forum is also very useful in highlighting potential problem areas so they can be checked/avoided as appropriate.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Hi @Kiwi in Wales - thanks for asking, however regarding refurbishment or extended warranty this is months rather than days away, apologies if I gave the impression that this was around the corner. At the time of writing our motors should be considered sealed units (non-repairable) and we don't see a likely change to this in the immediate-term. Today we work within warranty to service/replace faulty motors - or we use our Assisted Purchase program to reduce the cost of a new motor for riders when warranty has elapsed. (This program is open to any authorised retailer globally, by the way - more details on our warranty pages). The only exception is for our Brose belt-driven motors - under the right circumstances these can be replaced, more to come on this specifically.

We're aware that there are a number of companies globally offering to refurbish out-of-warranty motors - at this time we can't officially endorse them even though we realise they are providing a service that is valuable to some.

Thanks for your response.
However, you only responded to the last part of my post so I have repeated my other question below for you to respond to.

If, as you state above,
thankfully the majority of riders aren't having problems, however we do accept that there are an increased number of water-based faults in the UK in particular.
I do not think it is unreasonable for us as owners that have had failures to request and receive a ’rolling 2 year warranty period’ for failed motors, TCUs and cable failures. If it is such a low count then the cost impact to you will be fairly low and it would be a huge ‘good will gesture’ from you. I understand that one of your competitors, Bosch already offer a rolling warranty on their motors.

Some more questions for you....
Is there anyone from Specialized working on a retro fix to stop water getting into the Brose motors via both sides of the crankshaft? I do not think this issue has been mentioned by yourselves before. I know the issue exists as I have seen a number of examples in published videos where water has got in and destroyed the bearings. It happened on my out of warranty 2017 Levo. I also have a close friend who has just had his out of warranty motor repaired by @Bearing Man which had the same issue. No pressure washing, just a very light hose and a bucket of soapy water. We live in Wales and as you know it rains a lot here and there is no way to avoid riding in very wet conditions.

There was mention in your meeting that a new TCU was coming out. Will this be waterproof? As the current one is clearly not.

Can you let me know what the life expectancy of a 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 Brose motor is please? I know the warranty period is 2 years but can you supply a figure in miles or kilometres please? Is it 5000kms, 10000kms, 15000km or 20000kms? As the motors have been in service for some time you must have this information to hand. Do you have any customers with high mileage motors? Maybe we have a member on the forum that could answer this question?

I currently have 2 Comp Carbon Levo’s and I am wanting to keep these bikes very long term. I absolutely love these bikes which is why I am asking all of these questions as I have concerns for their longevity.

I know your competitor Bosch have parts readily available to refurbish their motors. This saves its out of warranty customers having to fork out for a brand new motor. It is a real shame that parts or refurbish kits are still not in place for your existing customers and that it does not look like this will be in place any time soon.
I know from a very reliable source that Bosch have motors out there that have done over 20000 miles on them, not kilometres, miles.... I know Bosch do a rolling 2 year warranty.
What can you do to encourage me to stick with Specialized and not move to a Bosch engined ebike?

 

[#lazy]

You’re not supposed to keep these bikes for a very long time , that’s not spesh’s plan and you are they’re worst customer !
I think there has to be a somewhere in the middle where the customer can be happy with a resale price so he can purchase a new bike from spesh and the buyer of the 2nd hand bike can be happy that the motor ain’t going to expire soon and cost him a fortune ! Someone do the MATH (?) and bingo everyone’s a winner !

 

[MattyB]

You’re not supposed to keep these bikes for a very long time , that’s not spesh’s plan and you are they’re worst customer!

Indeed. I’m afraid most of the big name manufacturers are still trying to convince us that the rate of ebike development is huge so you need a new bike every 2 years at minimum, but for me I don’t such much new this year to get excited about (the Levo SL is probably the most interesting because that New motor does look designed for reliability, but other than that it’s just light high end components, a lighter battery and an astronomical price). Let’s be honest - new, shiny, pretty, lighter sells bikes on the showroom floor; reliability comes second in most buyers minds (at least til the first breakdown). One thing is for certain - it is difficult to make a case that ebikes like these are eco friendly when they cost £5-10k to buy, the motors are unfixable and they are worth sod all after 2 years when the warranty expires.

 

[Mtbvkk]

As someone who has my first Levo on order I’m getting quite concerned reading the thread. Winters where I live are much like the UK. What is the cost of replacing a motor after 2 years? If it’s enormously expensive, that’s an issue.

 

[Mikerb]

Water ingress has caused 2 problems. One was the motor cable end plug cracking and allowing water in and shorting the electrics. That cable has been redesigned and apoears to have cured that problem. The other is water ingress getting past the motor crankshaft bearing seals and eventually damaging the bearings. One significant cause of this was pressure washing so that should be avoided. Other causes may be submersion or general bearing wear which in turn will render the seal inneffective but I would suspect inappropriate washing has been the main culprit. So I would not worry. Even after the end of warranty Spesh are prepared to do a discount and the chances are you will get more use out of the Levo in 2 years than you would an analogue bike in 5!

 

[Mtbvkk]

Water ingress has caused 2 problems. One was the motor cable end plug cracking and allowing water in and shorting the electrics. That cable has been redesigned and apoears to have cured that problem. The other is water ingress getting past the motor crankshaft bearing seals and eventually damaging the bearings. One significant cause of this was pressure washing so that should be avoided. Other causes may be submersion or general bearing wear which in turn will render the seal inneffective but I would suspect inappropriate washing has been the main culprit. So I would not worry. Even after the end of warranty Spesh are prepared to do a discount and the chances are you will get more use out of the Levo in 2 years than you would an analogue bike in 5!

Thanks that’s good to know! I have a specialized Roubaix, stumpjumper, and a fuse. Ive looked at other brands but the specialized geometry always fit my odd body better and I’ve come to love the brand. So I can’t imagine owning another bike, but this is a much bigger investment and we all want to see a Return on investment commensurate with other bikes we have owned. Hence 2 years seems short. But I understand we are entering a new frontier And it’s impossible to measure the electric aspects of this bike the same way we did our regular bikes.

My concern then is that I keep hearing about discount on the motor to the original purchaser. What is the replacement cost of the motor without original warranty and how much of a discount is provided to those that have it?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Water ingress has caused 2 problems. One was the motor cable end plug cracking and allowing water in and shorting the electrics. That cable has been redesigned and apoears to have cured that problem. The other is water ingress getting past the motor crankshaft bearing seals and eventually damaging the bearings. One significant cause of this was pressure washing so that should be avoided. Other causes may be submersion or general bearing wear which in turn will render the seal inneffective but I would suspect inappropriate washing has been the main culprit. So I would not worry. Even after the end of warranty Spesh are prepared to do a discount and the chances are you will get more use out of the Levo in 2 years than you would an analogue bike in 5!

Water ingress has caused 2 problems.
Water ingress has caused 4 problems that I am aware of.

The 2 you mention above and.....
The 3rd is an issue with the double green O rings around the motor plug. These O rings do not prevent water ingressing into the motor socket. The water ingress corrodes the terminals in the plug and also the terminals in the socket. I have repeatedly had this issue on both my 2017 and 2019 Levo’s.

Yes, there is a ‘sort of’ workaround but this is not a ‘proper officially released by Specialized fix’. If water is getting in past these 2 O rings this indicates to me that the socket is slightly too big or the size of the O rings on the plug are slightly too small. As yet, I do not believe a plug with larger O rings has been released by @Specialized Rider Care . My temporary fix is every 2 weeks I take the motor cover off and pull the plug out, clean and dry both the plug and socket, spray a small amount of electrical contact fluid in and refit the plugs. There are other fixes but this one works for me and so far I have had no more issues.

The 4th is a water ingress issue on the 2019/2020 TCUs. These are clearly not waterproof. I have had a number water ingress failures on my TCU’s.
Yes, there is a ‘sort of’ workaround but this is not a ‘proper officially released by Specialized fix’. If water is getting into the TCU then a new one needs to be released that is waterproof. Wrapping it in tape does not work in the conditions I ride in. My temporary fix is to remove the TCU shake out as much water as possible and they dry it with a paper towel then put it on the hot water boiler overnight so the heat dries it out. There are other fixes but this one works for me and so far I have had no more issues.

Water ingress getting past the motor crankshaft bearing seals and eventually damaging the bearings. One significant cause of this was pressure washing so that should be avoided.
I am fairly certain bearing seals are primarily designed to keep the grease in and not so much to keep water ingress out unless the bearings have a triple lip seal. It is my understanding that there are no triple lip sealed bearings on the Brose crankshaft. It is also my understanding that there are no proper water seals on the crankshaft of the Brose motor which is why water gets in so easily and destroys the bearings. I understand that @Bearing Man can and does fit an additional water seal when he refurbishes a motor. The big question I have is why hasn’t Brose fitted a water seal on any of their 'replacement' motors? These motors have been out there in the wild for over 4 years now……. Perhaps this is another question @Specialized Rider Care could answer for us?

Other causes may be submersion or general bearing wear which in turn will render the seal inneffective but I would suspect inappropriate washing has been the main culprit.
Submersion will do it for sure as there are NO water seals on the Brose crankshaft so the motor is more or less an open door if the motor is submerged over the motor cranks.
When I clean my bike. I use a very low pressure hose and a bucket of water. The hose is never directed at the motor. I have never pressure washed my ebike or submerged my ebike motor and yet 2 of my motors died due to water ingress. A friend who lives just down the road from me has just had his out of warranty motor fixed by @Bearing Man. This too was a water ingress issue. My friend washes his ebike the same way as I do. So inappropriate washing is not the culprit in mine or my friends situation.
As most of you know, I live in Wales, it rains a lot here. I ride in the rain, when I ride there is rain, fairly large puddles and mud everywhere which I unfortunately cannot avoid. I am fairly certain this is the culprit of my water ingress issues.

So I would not worry. Even after the end of warranty Spesh are prepared to do a discount and the chances are you will get more use out of the Levo in 2 years than you would an analogue bike in 5!
Would not worry? Specialized will sell me a new motor at a discounted price to replace my out of warranty motor that has no water seals in it. The exact same water ingress issue is very likely to happen to me again in the conditions I ride in. This is a mountain bike. It should be capable of riding in any weather condition….. Just so you know, 2 of my motors went within a year and had less than 2200 miles on them. My friends lasted about 1400 miles. All were water ingress issues. My other motor died due to a belt snapping. That had covered 2500 miles.

To be fair, @Specialized Rider Care have been good at fixing ‘some’ of the issues by releasing rolling fixes. I realise that some issues take more time to diagnose properly and to come up with a proper fix that will actually resolve the issue. However, Specialized do not appear to be engaging on some fairly important issues with their existing customer base with older motors that have been outstanding for quite some time now which is why I am raising it on the forum.
Hopefully @Specialized Rider Care will engage with us and let us know what their 'next steps' plan and timeline to resolution for above issues will be.

The photos below are a Brose motor that has never been pressure washed or submerged just good old Welsh weather

 

[TheBikePilot]

All good stuff Kiwi..

What’s your wish list from @Specialized Rider Care then?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

All good stuff Kiwi..

What’s your wish list from @Specialized Rider Care then?

Not a huge wish list but I think if @Specialized Rider Care could deliver it successfully then it would make a huge impact with their existing customer base with Brose motors. I do not think anything in the list below is an unreasonable request.

1. Deliver a fix for water ingress issue on both sides of the crank shaft.
My suggestion is for Specialized to engage with the 3rd party motor repairers in the UK like @Bearing Man for example. I am sure he would be more than happy to show Specialized first hand the issue regarding how and where the water is getting in. I am sure @Bearing Man could also suggest possible improvements on water sealing the current engines and where water seals could be possibly fitted. Armed with this detailed information, photo’s etc... Specialized could then meet with Brose and come up with a plan to resolve this water ingress issue. It would be good for Specialized to encourage Brose to start releasing service kits and parts to 3rd party repairers rather than existing customers being forced down the route of purchasing a brand new engine without water seals only to have it fail again in 12 to 18 months or sooner.

2. Can Specialized be 100% transparent and confirm what the life expectancy of a 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 Brose motor is before failure in the UK or anywhere else in the world affected by prolonged wet weather conditions. I know the warranty period is 2 years but can they supply a figure in miles or kilometres? Is it 5000kms, 10000kms, 15000km or 20000kms? As the motors have been in service for some time Specialized must have this information to hand or they can surely get it direct from Brose?
Statement from Specialized
Thankfully the majority of riders aren't having problems, however we do accept that there are an increased number of water-based faults in the UK in particular.
If this is the case, and Specialized know there is an issue in the UK I do not think it is unreasonable for existing owners that have had failures to request and receive a ’rolling 2 year warranty period’ for failed motors, TCUs and cable failures. If it is such a low count then the cost impact to Specialized would be fairly low and it would be a huge ‘good will gesture’ from Specialized to step up and move forward to keeping hold of their existing customer base. I understand that one of Specialized competitors, Bosch already offer a rolling warranty on their motors.

3. Deliver a fix for water getting past the O rings on the cable and into the socket where it plugs into the motor.
I know there was a new cable released but I do not know if this new cable has larger O rings fitted to the plug. If it has then great! the fix may already be out there. If not, This may require fitting thicker O rings onto the cable as I can't see making the socket on the motor slightly smaller would be viable or cost effective fix.

4. Deliver a fix for water getting into the TCU.
In the ‘Specialized meeting’ it was stated that there was a new TCU being released. Is this available now? Is it water proof? If it is not waterproof then there is going to be failures in the areas of the world where is rains a lot. For me personally, what happens is water somehow gets in to the area underneath the TCU when riding in wet conditions and condensates. If that area is not dried out after every ‘wet’ ride the water will just sit there and ingress into the TCU. I have tried taping it up with mastic tape, insulation tape but water still gets in. Making the TCU and its connections waterproof will resolve this problem and save Specialized and its TCU customer base time and money.