Any answers at Spesh day about motor and moisture issues ?

[Kiwi in Wales]

I'm with you on this, I've just bought a Trek rail to see how that fares

I think Specialized need to step up to the plate for their existing Brose motored customer base and introduce a rolling motor warranty like Bosch have. On top of this, They should be sorting out their cable sealing design issues and TCU water ingress issues.

I am sure @Bearing Man puts an additional seal or 2 in the Brose motor when he carries out a rebuild. If @Bearing Man has been able to work this out why hasn’t Brose or Specialized taken the time to look at the 1.2, 1.3 and 2.1 motors and done the same or even more as there may be a possibility to introduce even better sealing at a manufacturing level.
I know we are ’earlyish adopters’ as this is sort of ’new technology‘ so we ‘should accept’ a few failures but 3 new motors in less than 8000 kms is NOT acceptable in my book.

Put it this way, If this was a second Gen (2019 Levo) model ‘electric car’ we were talking about in this thread which was released 2 years ago from a company like Ford, Vauxhall, BMW or Mercedes what do you think would be happening right now?

@Specialized Rider Care what are your ‘way forward’ plans for your existing Brose motored customer base?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Probably like most in the UK all of my rides in recent months have been very wet and muddy but it seems to me even fairly deep puddles do not result in much if any water ingress behind the motor covers ( according to my inspections)...certainly not enough to impact on the various connection ports. I think the main water ingress problems result from washing and dampness. Clearly the motor cable design weakness has been one key source of damp or water ingress problems and carefully examining my original cable the cracking of the D section of the motor end plug is not the only problem with the original my19 cable design. The same flexing that eventually causes the motor end plug to crack also breaks the seal of the flexible covering section with the outer sheath of the cable at the motor plug end. The new cable should resolve both of those issues however.
The various ports can be better protected from any damp or direct water ingress. Of course the 3 unused ports should have their blanking covers in place (worth checking if you have had a motor change). I surround those and the speed sensor and TCU connector with grease. Similarly the motor connector can be better sealed by using silicone lube on the 2 green "ring" seals and grease on the body of the connector beyond them. I also taped up the bare wires of the TCU and Speed sensor cables to ensure they were not damaged by rubbing on the motor cover.
Moving up to the TCU I have taped it and used amalgamating tape on the TCU connectors. I have also made a seal to sit between the TCU and frame. In case of any water ingress in the top tube I have used grease to block the entry and exit point of the TCU cable behind the shock...to prevent water running down the cable towards the motor ports.

Great ideas but why should we as customers be coming up with these fixes? We are currently on a second Gen motor and have the same issues. Now a new 3rd Gen is out with a probable fix? These are mountain bikes, we ride them in the rain, mud and slop and the advice is not to hose them down? What planet are we on? Is it the just roll over and ream me again planet?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

@Specialized Rider Care . Just for the record, I love my Levo’s, I dont want to buy another manufacturers bike but myself and many other Brose motor owners are not very convinced that you are listening to us.

 

[Kave]

£12499 for the top model

View attachment 25715

Lucky you. In Sweden the regular S-Works SL is 12.000£.
The Expert Carbon is 8045£

 

[#lazy]

I keep waiting for a reviewer/Youtuber to do an item on the various motor problems with all makes.
It might help people with their choices and raise the profile of the problems and hopefully put a bit of pressure on the manufactures.
I can't see it happening though. It reminds me of the motorbike world, it's rare you see a bad review probably down to the risk of losing advertising revenue and no longer being invited on the all expenses payed launches.
A few rubber casing gaskets and weatherproof electrical connectors might help too.

The MXA guys are the only outfit to properly review.a bike , if there’s an issue they will identify it and give a fix and Mx manufactures listen to them and make changes ! The MBaction is also good but not much ebike content in there !

 

[Deleted member 4988]

A good dealer is one of the most important part of buying a e-mtb, Chris@Berkshire Cycles and Richard Butters@ Race co Cycles were mentioned a few times in the Q&A session, if you're within an hour or two drive of either of them then id always go to them for any warranty work even if you bought the bike elsewhere

These guys know the bikes inside out and work with Specialized to get bikes fixed asap (the same day in my experience with Chris@Berkshire Cycles) and offer great deals on new bikes too

Chris has been outstanding regarding warranty work and I bought the bike from elsewhere ! Top Bloke

 

[#lazy]

Chris has been outstanding regarding warranty work and I bought the bike from elsewhere ! Top Bloke

I might pop in for a new deluxe shock and a non creaky fork ?

 

[miPbiP]

Chris has been outstanding regarding warranty work and I bought the bike from elsewhere ! Top Bloke

do dealers bill Spesh back for warranty work? (I'm assuming they do).

 

[escrs]

do dealers bill Spesh back for warranty work? (I'm assuming they do).

As far as i know they do not, when my 2017 Levo (bought from Evans) motor died and Evans didn't have a clue i found out about Chris and took the bike to him

He explained that the motor would be replaced under warranty but i would have to pay the labour charges as he didn't supply the bike which was fair

Don't know if this is still the case

 

[miPbiP]

The 1.3 motors have been seen for sale for as low as £399

54 - Workshop - 36v C91143-100 Brose Motor

I suspect the full retail price of the 1.3 and 2.1 would be around £1000

Also you have Performance bearings doing repairs for around £250

@escrs was it yourself I had a good chat with on Saturday, from Tunbridge Wells? I'm the guy from Dorking.

 

[Deleted member 4988]

I might pop in for a new deluxe shock and a non creaky fork ?

 

[escrs]

Not me im from Portsmouth, didn't really chat to anyone other than my mate and the Specialized staff, not really a people person

 

[R120]

The period we are in now with EMTB's reminds me a bit of the late 90's early 2000's with regular MTB's - now my memory is probably not the most reliable form that period, but it did seem like something greater and better was coming out all the time, but that also barely a ride went by when I didn't break something on my bike, or have something fail.

When you take a step back and look at the last 3 years or so its pretty remarkable the progression of EMTB's, and we are in a much better place now than we where even a few years ago, but we still have a long way to go in terms of reliability of components - unfortunately its the nature of the beast in that you can do as much testing as you want, but its not until the product is in the hands of the consumer that the products really get put to the sword.

Considering how normal MTB's cope with the British winter, its a miracle that an EMTB can even be considered useable in the same weather.

 

[Zimmerframe]

As I see it .. there are two issues.

The first issue is that the bike companies are understandably new to electrifying bicycles to be used in more rustic conditions. There's a lot to learn and a lot has been learnt. So yes, whilst we don't like it, we accept that there probably will be problems.

The second issue, which for our "generation" of emtbers is how the first issue is dealt with.

If I give an example:

Many years ago in a moment of over priced, bright coloured attraction I bought a dyson DC01 washing machine when they came out. Dyson had invested heavily in something which was completely new for them, pushed the boundaries of the domestic washing machine and at the same time tested heavily. (I know the person who sold them the many tonnes of army surplus which was washed within an inch of it's life).

The machines had reliability issues.

Dyson were excellent and would COME and FIX them. The BIG difference with that situation and the situation we have, which I see as the predominant problem we are facing with our Spesh e-bikes, is that everytime they changed something, they'd upgraded the part - no doubt at great expense.

Amazingly it still works now and has been hammered by the OH who uses it to wash disgusting horse gear.

So this is the problem :

We've bought expensive bikes - they are expensive. That's a simple fact.

They have intrinsic design faults with their motors and some electronics. Yes, some people will never have a problem - great, but lots will.

Unfortunately, it's not easy to buy a replacement motor for a reasonable price. Worse, it's not possible to buy the parts to repair them - which is not exactly environmentally or financially friendly.

The worst part, is that there's no work done to improve the faulty parts. You would expect this to be done for pretty much anything you buy which isn't disposable.

Spesh had a great opportunity in their live broadcast to reassure people and show that they're a dependable reliable company and that they're not the Bike worlds new 1980's Fiat making pretty things which aren't dependable.

They introduced the new IP67 motor - so you can use it in the rain .. It's so much better.

But the old ones .. yes, we know they have water ingress issues .. but we have no plans to do anything about it, but it's fine. Look at this shiny new bike you can buy instead.

No plans to improve the designs of the existing motors to improve the reliability.

No plans to setup "Spesh approved" motor repairers and supply them with motors and parts.

No plans to setup "Spesh approved" battery re-packers and supply them with parts.

Yup .. you bought the old one. Live with it. It's not going to give any second users any confidence who might consider buying it. A motor or battery will cost you more than the bike is worth ..

Would you like to buy this shiny new one ?

It's nice .. really ..

 

[Paceman]

They did confirm on Saturday that a new TCU was in development and that it would work with existing bikes... that is a step in the right direction.

 

[ImSundee]

They did confirm on Saturday that a new TCU was in development and that it would work with existing bikes... that is a step in the right direction.

Can completely say no change, its a problem with the battery tech, and nothing the TCU can do - unless they add discharging through it - which would not be effective

 

[Mikerb]

I wonder who is absorbing the cost of replacement motors....and indeed what happens to the broken motors. Is the 2 year warranty a Brose warranty which Spesh forwards on to the consumer? Do the broken motors go back to Brose? Spesh carry the can for damage to reputation and sales but can do nothing to modify the motor and Brose will do nothing unless they have some incentive to do so. Maybe this forum should be aiming its comments at Brose?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

I wonder who is absorbing the cost of replacement motors....and indeed what happens to the broken motors. Is the 2 year warranty a Brose warranty which Spesh forwards on to the consumer? Do the broken motors go back to Brose? Spesh carry the can for damage to reputation and sales but can do nothing to modify the motor and Brose will do nothing unless they have some incentive to do so. Maybe this forum should be aiming its comments at Brose?

I am sorry but I bought a Specialized bike from a Specialized dealer. My warranty is with Specialized. Specialized need to deal with this issue by having a ‘drains up‘ meeting with Brose.

 

[Mikerb]

I am sorry but I bought a Specialized bike from a Specialized dealer. My warranty is with Specialized. Specialized need to deal with this issue by having a ‘drains up‘ meeting with Brose.

Of course that is what should happen and maybe it is......maybe it is not. So if the front door is locked it is worth trying the back door!

 

[StuR]

Brose definitely need their collars felt but Spesh are ultimately responsible

In the industry I work in our contracts are directly with the customer . Whatever supplier or manufacturer we use is irrelevant to our customers.
We are ultimately responsible . If our suppliers are underperforming or constantly supplying goods that are unfit for purpose we would take it up with them and bin them off if they didn't improve.

But that's our responsibility not our customers

Spesh don't seem to see it that way

 

[Mikerb]

As far as I can see...and I am no expert as far as the bike industry is concerned....bike manufacturers have historically only used suppliers for parts of the bike, other than the frame , where those parts are warranteed by the supplier. The majority of those parts being from companies like Shimano and SRAM. Those parts are also bolt on rather than integrated. So maybe there is no procurement precedent or expertise for the type of contract they have on the motor/electrics supply chain.

 

[Mikerb]

I think we have all had our expectations raised by, for example, the extraordinary longevity and reliability of products like motor cars. I remember making good 2nd income money fixing broken down cars in the 1970s. Easy money because each different make of car had a predictable fault due to poor design. For years the humble mini would stop if driven in heavy rain! Easilly fixed...and easilly prevented.

 

[Fivetones]

Spesh don't seem to see it that way

@Rob Hancill You have a great relationship with Specialized and I know they read this forum. Could anything be done to reassure current Specialized customers and potential new ones? I’m certainly in this second group but all this does dampen any enthusiasm.

@Specialized Rider Care perhaps you could comment or relay this back?

 

[Deleted member 4988]

do dealers bill Spesh back for warranty work? (I'm assuming they do).

Yes, Chris just asked for the proof of purchase and frame number then proceeded with the work or item needed, then they chase up Specailized UK

 

[SquireRides]

@Rob Hancill You have a great relationship with Specialized and I know they read this forum. Could anything be done to reassure current Specialized customers and potential new ones? I’m certainly in this second group but all this does dampen any enthusiasm.

@Specialized Rider Care perhaps you could comment or relay this back?

We saw the corporate on-message response to these issues on the live cast.

I appreciate the time Spesh took with the live cast, and the answers they gave, but to be fair they have only served to increase the FUD and frustration around the topic of water ingress.

Maybe Spesh will change something - a more generous guarantee or replacement discount are possible without the cost and challenges of re-engineering bikes already in the wild. But if that does come, it will be product-managed, launched and announced through the 'proper' channels. I don't expect assurances or early info on a forum from a company like Spesh.

 

[Fivetones]

We saw the corporate on-message response to these issues on the live cast.

I appreciate the time Spesh took with the live cast, and the answers they gave, but to be fair they have only served to increase the FUD and frustration around the topic of water ingress.

Maybe Spesh will change something - a more generous guarantee or replacement discount are possible without the cost and challenges of re-engineering bikes already in the wild. But if that does come, it will be product-managed, launched and announced through the 'proper' channels. I don't expect assurances or early info on a forum from a company like Spesh.

Yes, I agree, their line has increased anxiety. Hopefully there’s an opportunity here to clarify things?

 

[Mikerb]

We saw the corporate on-message response to these issues on the live cast.

I appreciate the time Spesh took with the live cast, and the answers they gave, but to be fair they have only served to increase the FUD and frustration around the topic of water ingress.

Maybe Spesh will change something - a more generous guarantee or replacement discount are possible without the cost and challenges of re-engineering bikes already in the wild. But if that does come, it will be product-managed, launched and announced through the 'proper' channels. I don't expect assurances or early info on a forum from a company like Spesh.

Great idea! Extend the warranty. It would make more sense to have a combined time/mileage warranty maybe. An alterative or addition might be a motor service schedule. Making spares available and authorising repair/servicing agents could be another avenue.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Great idea! Extend the warranty. It would make more sense to have a combined time/mileage warranty maybe. An alterative or addition might be a motor service schedule. Making spares available and authorising repair/servicing agents could be another avenue.

Due to the current failures the Standard warranty should be extended to 3 years or 18000km

 

[miPbiP]

yup. a longer warranty would really help me move on from my reluctance to drop big bucks on an SL Expert. 2 years (which is 2 summers) goes very fast.

 

[congerball]

Show us some love Specialized