6 month battery warranty on new decoy...

[thewildblue]

So it appears from a few facebook posts last night that the new Decoy only has a 6 month warranty on their batteries. Your thoughts ?

 

[Gary]

According to a few Facebook posts the world is flat.

do you have anything more... I dunno... official? to go on?

EU legislation means all purchases are covered with a 2yr manufacturers defect warranty.
I wonder how YT are exempt???

 

[thewildblue]

Edit... Facebook link is for a closed group.

What do you mean the world isn't flat...*Shocked*

 

[Jamsxr]

Battery warranty usually provides cover for 12 months unless and additional service is purchased with a product.

I purchased a new battery for my phone last year and it only came with a 3 month warranty.

It’s a consumable item so manufacturers don’t have to play by the normal rules.

I would expect YT to offer at least 12 months but it seems they are just passing through the terms from the Origional Equipment Manufacture.

 

[Gary]

Confirmation: The world is square

YT Industries

FUCK YOU YT

Before I cancel anyone want to jump the queue on a Med Decoy base?

 

[thewildblue]

Glad to be of assistance...Facebook can be handy sometimes...

 

[James_MTB]

We live in the UK, not Germany.

 

[Gary]

We live in the UK, not Germany.

Being the internet. I'm pretty sure some users here do actually live in Germany.
Warranty lies with the vendor.
Vendor is YT
YT is in Germany.

 

[DanDilla]

I don’t know if there are any exceptions for batteries, regularly German law gives you a 24 month warranty with something called ‚Beweisumkehr‘ (reversal of proof) after 6 month.
After the six month period it’s up to you to proof there was a defect at the moment of purchase which can become very annoying.

 

[Jamsxr]

Plenty of manufactures selling products in the U.K. and the batteries only have a 90 day warranty. We don’t get special battery treatment.

 

[Max-E]

I always thought (while we are still in the EU) that consumer law in one EU country applies to all - if Germany (Italy, France, Spain etc) gets a 2 year warranty on a retail product so does everyone else?

 

[Jamsxr]

As above, batteries are consumable items and the whole 2 year warranty does not apply to them.

 

[MattyB]

I always thought (while we are still in the EU) that consumer law in one EU country applies to all - if Germany (Italy, France, Spain etc) gets a 2 year warranty on a retail product so does everyone else?

Not if it is considered a consumable product. Example - Your car may have a 3 year warranty, but the tyres on it do not.

Having said that I do think YT are being somewhat underhand in limiting the warranty to 6 months. Further down that same help page it states it will on average take 500 cycles of the pack until it gets down to 70% capacity (which is probably about right), so you'd have to complete rides adding up to ~2.75 charges every single day for 6 months to get there by the time the warranty runs out. I don't think many of us are going to do that! Also in 6 months the effect of damage due to storage at elevated state of charge (even if it was stored at full every single time) would probably not be fast enough to trigger a pack to fail, so unless your battery is demonstrably failing to give full capacity on day 1 it is highly unlikely owners will ever be able to make a battery warranty claim under those T&Cs. All a bit sneaky!

 

[Max-E]

Understood - shady as hell though.

 

[Doomanic]

Confirmation: The world is square

YT Industries

FUCK YOU YT

Before I cancel anyone want to jump the queue on a Med Decoy base?

Really? Or just drama-queening?

 

[Mcharza]

It seems that YT's cheapness comes from these little things...chinese crap

 

[Jamsxr]

It seems that YT's cheapness comes from these little things...chinese crap

All manufacturers are guilty of this to some extent. I would not call YT cheap, just excellent value, like most direct to consumer brands.

This does seem like a big oversight from YT though. Most other big brands offer 2 years.

Most of the electronic stuff we use comes from China/Asia... But brands should show confidence in the components that represent them.

 

[MattyB]

It seems that YT's cheapness comes from these little things...chinese crap

Not sure I understand. The origin of manufacture has zero to do with the warranty offered.

Pretty much all the major bike manufacturers make their bikes in lower cost markets like Taiwan and China, incuding those at the premium end like Specialized. However, YT is a German company, so if the customer is transacting with that German entity it is German/EU law that will be applied irrelevent of the country the battery or other components were manufactured. All that is happening here is that YT are choosing to offer the minimum warranty required by law, rather than being more generous which would mean pricing in more replacements making the inital purchase price higher.

You pays your money and all that, but don't kid yourself that just because you are paying more for a battery from Specialized or Haibike than a direct sales brand that it is fundamentally a better quality product; it could well be made from the same cells in the same factory. Most of the additional cost in those brands is stuff like marketing, dealer support, R&D etc, not materials and manufacturing.

 

[Gary]

Really? Or just drama-queening?

Really dude.
6 months warranty is no use to me whatsoever.
I'm very black and white about stuff. pretty emotionless about material objects so don't really do Drama
the E-sommet is a better bike.
The YT just looks a litle nicer
I'll wait and cancel when they contact me to arrange payment. That way anyone who wants to jump queue can have it for a simple bank transfer.

 

[Gary]

Not if it is considered a consumable product. Example - Your car may have a 3 year warranty, but the tyres on it do not.

Why would you use "tyres" as an example when using a car as your anecdotal belonging/purchase when all cars have both a motor and a battery? Both of which are generally warrantied for the first 3 years of a cars life.

Anecdotes? why do folk even use them?

 

[khorn]

I totally support Gary on this, from my perspective it is absolutely ridiculous that the warranty is only 6 months. A battery on a EMTB cost up to 1/5 of the total cost and in some circumstances the single most expensive part on the bike. Furthermore the battery is not "just" a battery, it is a integrated unit consisting of advanced electronics(BMS) and multiple batteries. What about if the BMS part goes haywire? It would be the same as stating that the warranty on a brand new iPhone is only 6 month as it has a integrated battery...........

I'm 100% sure that if this it brought to the EU consumer court they will loose the case BIG time.

Thrust me, the only reason why Specialized is providing 2 years on the battery part is because they have to.

Karsten

 

[Eckythump]

Thankfully Focus do too as mine failed at 23 months & 2 weeks!
One of the very few times things like this have ever worked out in my favour?

 

[Fire_2]

Cancelled my order hello Levo.
pick it up tomorrow

 

[MattyB]

Why would you use "tyres" as an example when using a car as your anecdotal belonging/purchase when all cars have both a motor and a battery? Both of which are generally warrantied for the first 3 years of a cars life.

Anecdotes? why do folk even use them?

No reason in particular, it was just the first example I thought of that was considered as a consumable for which the std guarantee would not apply. I guess the reason most car manufacturers will warranty the battery for 3 years is because in an IC powered vehicle the lead acid chemistry used is pretty resilient when used solely for starting and auxiliary electrics. By comparison Li ion, whilst it has higher energy and power density, is less resilient to use and abuse especially when discharged at relatively high currents for extended periods as we do in an ebike.

A more interesting comparison may be the battery in an electric car, where packs that use identical chemistry to ebikes normally have a far longer warranty - Nissan offer 8 years/100k miles on their latest Leafs with replacement/repair if it drops more than 30% in that time. Why is that? The only way I can see of getting that kind of cycle life and resisting damage caused by storage at elevated SOC, they must have a battery with higher maximum capacity than advertised and very conservative BMS that is only charging to relatively low cell voltages and calling them “empty” at relatively high ones:

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

Either way it shows that the 6 months YT are offering is extremely stingy and would make me think twice about buying one.

 

[Mcharza]

Not sure I understand. The origin of manufacture has zero to do with the warranty offered.

Pretty much all the major bike manufacturers make their bikes in lower cost markets like Taiwan and China, incuding those at the premium end like Specialized. However, YT is a German company, so if the customer is transacting with that German entity it is German/EU law that will be applied irrelevent of the country the battery or other components were manufactured. All that is happening here is that YT are choosing to offer the minimum warranty required by law, rather than being more generous which would mean pricing in more replacements making the inital purchase price higher.

You pays your money and all that, but don't kid yourself that just because you are paying more for a battery from Specialized or Haibike than a direct sales brand that it is fundamentally a better quality product; it could well be made from the same cells in the same factory. Most of the additional cost in those brands is stuff like marketing, dealer support, R&D etc, not materials and manufacturing.

Choose how you want it, it's your money.
In fact, I buy nothing where there is no minimum 2 year warranty.

If the manufacturer does not dare to provide a sufficient guarantee for his product, it is not made of good parts.
I am opposed to a one-time culture

 

[steve_sordy]

Thankfully Focus do too as mine failed at 23 months & 2 weeks!
..........

Focus are German, like YT.

 

[Jamsxr]

Battery warranty has nothing to do with the country of manufacture, it’s all down to the supplier...

 

[R120]

The thing that concerns me is that the most common electrical faults reported on the forum are battery/battery connection related, and the majority of those are on bike which use bespoke batteries, like the focus and specialised.

 

[Eckythump]

You are right there. The native Shimano batteries are covered for two years like the motor.

 

[MattyB]

Choose how you want it, it's your money.
In fact, I buy nothing where there is no minimum 2 year warranty.

If the manufacturer does not dare to provide a sufficient guarantee for his product, it is not made of good parts.
I am opposed to a one-time culture

I humbly suggestyou need to look more carefully at the small print for your purchases - all of us own products where the “consumable items” clauses come into play.

Try re-reading my posts. I am not saying I support YTs approach, I was just explaining the economics of why they are doing it. I would also not buy a bike with a 6 month pack warranty, but the real question we should be asking is not whether it is ethical or not, but whether it is legal. As @khorn suggests I suspect not, but unless someone challenges it we will never know...