6 month battery warranty on new decoy...

[Jamsxr]

After all, the new Canyon Spectral:ON with integrated 700w battery and e9000 motor can’t be far from launch.....And they wouldn’t want to lose buyers to the competition would they.

New e9000, mmmm, I’m guessing it’s launched next year and widely available come 2021. Do you have some intel?

Let’s hope it’s plug and play using the existing e8000 mounts. Cheaper and quicker for manufacturers to update their bikes and we can upgrade our own ?

 

[Eckythump]

They seem to be struggling to get the E7000 out there never mind a new variant.....

 

[Jedipip]

The Spectal looks great but how come you didn’t just keep the Capra?

Got offered silly money for the Capra ?
It was almost 3 and had been all over the French and Italian Alps and through every bike park in the UK plus a Snowdon hammering. It was ready for new wheels and running gear. The Spectral appeared to be too good to be true. It is! ??

 

[Jamsxr]

Got offered silly money for the Capra ?
It was almost 3 and had been all over the French and Italian Alps and through every bike park in the UK plus a Snowdon hammering. It was ready for new wheels and running gear. The Spectral appeared to be too good to be true. It is! ??

Damn it, now you’ve got me hankering over the Canyon website ?

 

[Lee Dove]

YT do a cost only replacement service for frames that fail (or you break) outside the warranty. IT would not surprise me if they offer the same on batteries.

My Decoy ships this week and the battery warranty does not bother me at all.

 

[Picarra]

Not wanting to add wood to the fire. Have anyone seen Page 49 of the the Decoy user manual?

 

[MarkH]

P

Not wanting to add wood to the fire. Have anyone seen Page 49 of the the Decoy user manual?

View attachment 14550

That's pretty standard. My Levo has a note on charge cycles that suggest on the frequency I recharge it will need replacing in 4 years.

Its just another consumable, albeit more expensive than a set of tyres

 

[Jedipip]

P
That's pretty standard. My Levo has a note on charge cycles that suggest on the frequency I recharge it will need replacing in 4 years.

Its just another consumable, albeit more expensive than a set of tyres

I got heckled by a fellow ebiker whilst I was out on the ‘fault free at 500 miles’ Decoy this week. He said I should have got a Kenevo (like him) as the battery warranty was ‘useless’ on the YT.

I asked him why it was useless and he said he’d needed 2 batteries in the year.

Is the logic of his argument so difficult for him to see?

Whilst riding away chuckling I also worked out that a full price new battery every 6 months for 2 years (as though YT would even go there!) would still be cheaper than buying an equivalent spec Levo with its 2 year warranty ?

 

[Jamsxr]

I got heckled by a fellow ebiker whilst I was out on the ‘fault free at 500 miles’ Decoy this week. He said I should have got a Kenevo (like him) as the battery warranty was ‘useless’ on the YT.

I asked him why it was useless and he said he’d needed 2 batteries in the year.

Is the logic of his argument so difficult for him to see?

Whilst riding away chuckling I also worked out that a full price new battery every 6 months for 2 years (as though YT would even go there!) would still be cheaper than buying an equivalent spec Levo with its 2 year warranty ?

What a bellend. Specialized bikes seem to attract this type of rider ?

 

[Jedipip]

What a bellend. Specialized bikes seem to attract this type of rider ?

Lol. But to be fair, Spesh have some good looking and capable (if not a little temperamental with motors and batteries) bikes. And they must sell thousands of them, I reckon 1 in 4 of us are bellends.

That’s a lot of Spesh riding bellends!

 

[Jamsxr]

Lol. But to be fair, Spesh have some good looking and capable (if not a little temperamental with motors and batteries) bikes. And they must sell thousands of them, I reckon 1 in 4 of us are bellends.

That’s a lot of Spesh riding bellends!

As a BMW driver, I completely agree ?

 

[Dax]

I got heckled by a fellow ebiker whilst I was out on the ‘fault free at 500 miles’ Decoy this week. He said I should have got a Kenevo (like him) as the battery warranty was ‘useless’ on the YT.

I asked him why it was useless and he said he’d needed 2 batteries in the year.

Is the logic of his argument so difficult for him to see?

Seems pretty logical, battery technology is fundamentally the same between the kenevo and the decoy, so you could be looking at 4 batteries for the decoy before you need to buy one for the kenevo.

 

[Jedipip]

As a BMW driver, I completely agree ?

Yeah I got one of them too....so statistically I MUST be a bellend ?

Best get rid of the YT and order a Kenevo then!

‘Decoy Pro for sale - Stealth XL 500miles and perfect’ £4995 will deliver

Seems pretty logical, battery technology is fundamentally the same between the kenevo and the decoy, so you could be looking at 4 batteries for the decoy before you need to buy one for the kenevo.

Yeah Dax. Apart from the fact that we have a lot of Decoys out there and no one reporting any trend of battery issues yet.

Plus YT cannot afford to lose buyers confidence by being hard on the 6 month warranty. That would stall sales almost immediately. And the batteries in the Decoy are a different cell, so one of two things will happen! For the time being it seems it’s a case of they seem to have nailed it.

Don’t forget they also state the battery has an anticipated 5 year lifespan (YT’s own standard) before forced recycling and replacement - I’ll be holding them to that if it falters. I bought it in reasonable expectation it would get close to that. Let’s see how it all works out.

Although my bike won’t make it to 3 before I sell it

Anyway, it’s for sale ??

Because I need a Kenevo as I drive a BMW!

 

[Dax]

Yeah Dax. Apart from the fact that we have a lot of Decoys out there and no one reporting any trend of battery issues yet.

Are any of those decoys 3 months old yet? Let alone 6?

I guess that 6 month warranty will catch the manufacturing defect packs, which typically are DoA or die within a few short months. The issue will be with the heavy usage riders who put more than average cycles through the battery and kill it a lot quicker than YT expect.

My bike will be fine, I'm lucky if I can ride twice a month atm, but I know retired guys who are riding and charging their bikes 6x/week, they may get caught up with the YT warranty. Personally I'm not liking the idea of forced obsolescence at 5 years, it wouldnt affect me because I expect I'll upgrade at 2 years, but forced obsolescence in general is a bad practice.

Let's revisit in 9 months time and see how everyone is getting on.

Plus YT cannot afford to lose buyers confidence by being hard on the 6 month warranty. That would stall sales almost immediately.

YT don't care about buyer confidence, see the thread on terrible customer service

 

[Jedipip]

Are any of those decoys 3 months old yet? Let alone 6?

I guess that 6 month warranty will catch the manufacturing defect packs, which typically are DoA or die within a few short months. The issue will be with the heavy usage riders who put more than average cycles through the battery and kill it a lot quicker than YT expect.

My bike will be fine, I'm lucky if I can ride twice a month atm, but I know retired guys who are riding and charging their bikes 6x/week, they may get caught up with the YT warranty. Personally I'm not liking the idea of forced obsolescence at 5 years, it wouldnt affect me because I expect I'll upgrade at 2 years, but forced obsolescence in general is a bad practice.

Let's revisit in 9 months time and see how everyone is getting on.



YT don't care about buyer confidence, see the thread on terrible customer service

Mine is almost 3 months old.

And I can’t honestly say I post up when YT reply and sort issues for me.

That’s the trouble with finding hard facts. Looking at the Spesh forum we could believe every bike is in its third battery and fourth motor!

Ride on. See what transpires

 

[06z]

The real question is what cells are used in the specialized batteries?
If it is the 18650 cell, YT is producing a better battery. YT uses a 21700 cell.

 

[Dax]

Looking at the Spesh forum we could believe every bike is in its third battery and fourth motor!

Most people I know get through a motor/year, don't know anyone who has had a shimano long enough to find out how they wear, but that seems typical for bosch and brose. Mine seems to be lasting a little longer, but possibly because I haven't ridden it enough

The real question is what cells are used in the specialized batteries?
If it is the 18650 cell, YT is producing a better battery. YT uses a 21700 cell.

That is correct. Funny how the YT part has timed obsolescence and a shorter warranty, despite better components.

Ride on. See what transpires

This ^^

 

[Jedipip]

Most people I know get through a motor/year, don't know anyone who has had a shimano long enough to find out how they wear, but that seems typical for bosch and brose. Mine seems to be lasting a little longer, but possibly because I haven't ridden it enough



That is correct. Funny how the YT part has timed obsolescence and a shorter warranty, despite better components.



This ^^

Indeed ???

 

[MattyB]

I’m not sure the 21700 is going to be fundamentally any better than the 18650 in terms of cycle life and capacity drop off; the form factor is different giving slightly higher energy density, but the chemistry is the same. How the pack is treated (I.e. storage SOC, storage temps, discharge and charge rates etc) will have far more effect over long term performance than cell type IMO.

 

[06z]

I’m not sure the 21700 is going to be fundamentally any better than the 18650 in terms of cycle life and capacity drop off; the form factor is different giving slightly higher energy density, but the chemistry is the same. How the pack is treated (I.e. storage SOC, storage temps, discharge and charge rates etc) will have far more effect over long term performance than cell type IMO.

Well for me the 20% more energy density is well worth it.

 

[Al Boneta]

“Why worry about something that isn’t going to happen?”

 

[Mountie]

I had my Levo battery replaced 12 months into ownership and motor at 20 months. There is no possible way with an emerging technology like emtb that I would accept second rate warranty like YT. For me Specialized all the way.

 

[06z]

I had my Levo battery replaced 12 months into ownership and motor at 20 months. There is no possible way with an emerging technology like emtb that I would accept second rate warranty like YT. For me Specialized all the way.

Well thank you for confirming all the issues specialized bikes have.

 

[Jedipip]

I had my Levo battery replaced 12 months into ownership and motor at 20 months. There is no possible way with an emerging technology like emtb that I would accept second rate warranty like YT. For me Specialized all the way.

Mountie, you make a great case for the Spesh warranty. It certainly gets used. In many ways it justifies the price they charge via dealers for their flawed product ?

Why is the YT warranty second rate? Have you used them for warranty work?

That’s what we are debating! Very few YT owners have. I’m in Year 4 of YT ownership and they have been exemplary. Plus they charge 50% less for equivalent bike spec.

But this is tiring, even emtbers are capable of bickering about who has the better deal. We are after YT facts and data here. Not trying to prove what we all know about Spesh bikes.

Don’t you have a massive part of this forum for comparing bust motors and blinking LED’s?

 

[Mountie]

Well thank you for confirming all the issues specialized bikes have.

It’s a new tech there will be troubles for the first decade accept it or don’t bother is my take on it. I just want a company to back their products so they are taking the trip with me not some internet company with a 6 month warranty on the most expensive part of the bike (battery). When YT has been on the trails for two years let’s see what issues they have but after 6 months their customers have been shelling out.
To be clear I’ve had non e components fail in the past three years like rear rock shock replaced with fox warranty. Dropper post replaced warranty. Specialized have stepped up the the plate every time and have won me over. Now I want to order my road bike and it will be a Specialized Creo all the way.

 

[06z]

YT Decoy warranty from forum members that I have read were 1 had no power at delivery. He sent his bike back to YT and they reflashed the firmware on the battery. No problems since that I know of. A couple of reports of bent rotors, YT sent replacements. One box was damaged, new skidplate shipped. YT has done a excellent job so far. Let's see how it goes long term.

 

[Lee Dove]

YT Decoy warranty from forum members that I have read were 1 had no power at delivery. He sent his bike back to YT and they reflashed the firmware on the battery. No problems since that I know of. A couple of reports of bent rotors, YT sent replacements. One box was damaged, new skidplate shipped. YT has done a excellent job so far. Let's see how it goes long term.

Yep Bike running Great now. I have no desire to own a Specialized at the prices they charge but "each to his own" as they say.

 

[Mountie]

YT Decoy warranty from forum members that I have read were 1 had no power at delivery. He sent his bike back to YT and they reflashed the firmware on the battery. No problems since that I know of. A couple of reports of bent rotors, YT sent replacements. One box was damaged, new skidplate shipped. YT has done a excellent job so far. Let's see how it goes long term.

That’s awesome I hope they keep doing well for their owners but on paper it just doesn’t look good. I don’t have confidence yet so hearing positive things from owners is great. I’m only speaking about my own personal experience Specialized and they have been amazing. I’ve owned three Levos now and will keep in the hobby until I get bored.

 

[Mountie]

The battery wasn’t replaced for failing but the health percentage dropped and I didn’t feel happy with it so they replaced it.

 

[MattyB]

Well for me the 20% more energy density is well worth it.

They don’t have 20% more energy density - most of the increase in capacity is due to the increased cell volume, but with that cell volume comes additional weight too. This paper estimates the increase in energy density is minute (Warning - a lot of this is written in somewhat impenetrable language!):

JES : J. Electrochem. Soc.

Conclusions
We investigated several commercial types of 18650, 20700, and 21700 cells. It was found that

1. The energy content per cell can be higher by ∼50% for 21700 compared to 18650. Therefore, for certain applications, less cells have to be built and used to deliver the same amount of energy.
2. The higher energy content on cell level leads to potentially lower effort and costs in the production of 21700 compared to 18650 type cells and their packs. The benefit of lower cell hardware costs is likely to be caused mainly by less cell housings, fewer jellyroll insertions/closings/tab welding, and less cell formations per Wh. More produced Wh per existing station might also have a trickledown effect on the cost.
3. The energy density does not increase significantly by changing the cell format from 18650 to 21700 type. Instead, for state-of-the-art cells, the energy density is mainly a function of the anode coating thickness, i.e. high energy cells with current material combinations usually have thicker electrodes. The study showed that it is very important to use comparable coating thicknesses or electrode loadings when comparing different active materials or at least give the coating thickness for later comparison.