"2nd dead bosch gen 4 motor not happy

[AF1]

Can't help you there. Last time I looked Specialized motor was around £900 battery £1200. That's half the price of a decent enough Ebike I would think. Then again a new basic car in UK is probably £17 grand more reliable than a Ebike I would hope .

"Then again a new basic car in UK is probably £17 grand more reliable than a Ebike I would hope " and a damned sight more complicated but still good for 100,000miles +

 

[heinz]

5000km on my motor and its going strong, driven few times wet in conditions. Have been pressure washing carefullfy.
Chipped it at 1500km

 

[RustyMTB]

Don't pressure wash your ebike, carefully or otherwise.

 

[RustyMTB]

So you think that Bosch are great and can do no wrong.

You think that motors failing in their thousands at low mileage is OK and those affected in their wallets should just swallow the rediculous costs involved, just because we cannot get a £5 sensor!

You think that junking otherwise servicable motors is ecologically sound.

You think that £1 per mile is an acceptable cost of owning an E-bike - more than most cars!

You don't think its worth persuing Bosch to facilitate a change in corporate thinking and design standards.

Are you sponsored by a Bike brand using Bosch motors?

So then Andy, after all your let's sue Bosch bullshit, you didn't even suffer a motor failure. I was right out of the traps, a barrack room lawyer with too much time on his hands looking for a fight.

‘The big problem is water’: UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

Repair business is booming as owners complain of their units needing to be replaced up to five times

www.theguardian.com

 

[AF1]

How much more drag would a couple of seals and stainless or ceramic bearings add? And 50% more weight - I don't think so! And why don't they all make all motor parts available? Why are motors so expensive? If customers don't complain, then nothing is going to change. Article in the Guardian this Saturday might get their attention.

Finally got some traction on this scandal.

‘The big problem is water’: UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

Repair business is booming as owners complain of their units needing to be replaced up to five times

www.theguardian.com

Lets hope we see some corporate ethos change re spares & design and not just a meaningless, throw away mission statement:

The Guardian didn't include everything I wanted to expose but I suppose the lawyers said no.

He mis-quoted me a bit and got a couple of facts wrong.

I hope other consumer orgs pick this up now and run with it.

 

[AF1]

So then Andy, after all your let's sue Bosch bullshit, you didn't even suffer a motor failure. I was right out of the traps, a barrack room lawyer with too much time on his hands looking for a fight.

‘The big problem is water’: UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

Repair business is booming as owners complain of their units needing to be replaced up to five times

www.theguardian.com

I did it for everyone else, something you obviously don't understand.

 

[RustyMTB]

Expose! You're not Esther Rantzen pal. Just another misery with an axe to grind this country produces in excess.

 

[Gareth]

I did it for everyone else, something you obviously don't understand.

Fantastic Andy! Well done! Very good article!

Thank-you!

 

[AF1]

Expose! You're not Esther Rantzen pal. Just another misery with an axe to grind this country produces in excess.

What do you do to help?--slag people off!!

 

[AF1]

Fantastic Andy! Well done! Very good article!

Thank-you!

Thanks Gareth, glad you appreciate it.

 

[Binhill1]

This is playing for all us lads who have had to walk home with a broken motor or a broken derailleur. I've done three of each. Also for any Scotland supporters with a hangover today

 

[Gareth]

Thanks Gareth, glad you appreciate it.

Excellent result Andy. I’ve just tweeted your article – not that anybody pays any attention to me on twitter.

But seriously folks, do share this article across social media – keep raising the issue.

And again, well done Andy - good on you!

 

[Binhill1]

A couple of years ago it was Brose motors that seemed to be getting most of the pounding on this forum . Not saying they are any better now , but Bosch and Shimano getting their share as well now.

 

[AF1]

A couple of years ago it was Brose motors that seemed to be getting most of the pounding on this forum . Not saying they are any better now , but Bosch and Shimano getting their share as well now.

At least Brose supply all motor parts for repairs.

 

[Gareth]

A couple of years ago it was Brose motors that seemed to be getting most of the pounding on this forum . Not saying they are any better now , but Bosch and Shimano getting their share as well now.

I don’t think it would be particularly difficult to improve the situation. So focusing on Bosch, and water ingress just now…..

If Bosch don’t already know exactly how and where the water is getting in, well they have access to endless dead motors in order to figure that out. Then it is a matter of working out how they can improve the situation.

For example, can they improve the existing seals. Should they be service items, and how often should they be serviced. Perhaps providing procedures and training for Bosch bicycle shops to service seals and/or bearings.

Provide a refurb service for their ebike motors outside of the warranty period with full parts support. There’s already a potential quality skilled repair business here in the UK who might just be interested in becoming an official Bosch ebike service partner.

Our bikes need serviced, and perhaps more so than road and commuter bikes because of the environment in which we use them and emotors seem to be no different (in the UK anyway).

I don’t think this is a difficult problem to solve. But right now as consumers Bosch is leaving us high and dry.

 

[rutger]

Bosch Gen4 Speed motor also broke today... now the water appears to be coming through the motor/print plate seal again
(same as my bosch gen 2)
so not via the bearing seal!

 

[AF1]

Bosch Gen4 Speed motor also broke today... now the water appears to be coming through the motor/print plate seal again
(same as my bosch gen 2)
so not via the bearing seal! View attachment 142173

Interesting, can you post more details and clearer photos please?

 

[Binhill1]

At least Brose supply all motor parts for repairs.

I've been lucky had 3 new ones on warranty. On borrowed time with the latest one I'm thinking ,it's just turned 2000 miles .

 

[AF1]

I've been lucky had 3 new ones on warranty. On borrowed time with the latest one I'm thinking ,it's just turned 2000 miles .

What mileages were the failed motors on? Brose or Bosch?

 

[Binhill1]

What mileages were the failed motors on? Brose or Bosch?

Brose motors in a Levo Expert 2019 model. 2600 miles on first motor second one was 2000 it was running perfectly. Bike was in for new frame and they found an error so changed it. Third was 3000 . Fourth was fitted last April fingers still ok . Battery still good at 9000 miles .

 

[Stihldog]

Bosch Gen4 Speed motor also broke today... now the water appears to be coming through the motor/print plate seal again
(same as my bosch gen 2)
so not via the bearing seal! View attachment 142173

If water gets into these female connectors it’s possibly game over. If enough water passes into the motor through these connectors …it’s definitely game over.

As a preventative measure I apply a very small amount of dielectric grease around the seals of each male connector to improve the seal (rubber ribs only). I don’t slop the grease into the female portion …that makes an unnecessary mess.

Does that prevent water ingress in this area? Seems to. That’s one less thing I have to worry about. A Bearing seal kit and Bosch grease on a regular basis helps also.

 

[rutger]

If water gets into these female connectors it’s possibly game over. If enough water passes into the motor through these connectors …it’s definitely game over.

As a preventative measure I apply a very small amount of dielectric grease around the seals of each male connector to improve the seal (rubber ribs only). I don’t slop the grease into the female portion …that makes an unnecessary mess.

Does that prevent water ingress in this area? Seems to. That’s one less thing I have to worry about. A Bearing seal kit and Bosch grease on a regular basis helps also.

for me the water comes in via the packaging between the aluminum motor part, the plastic part with the plugs.. with the Bosch 2 it also went through a plug (correctly) not through the silicone sealing but through the space between the wires (although this was a plug from a speedbox set)

Bosch Gen 4 Error Code 550

Moderator Note : Two threads on the same subject were merged into this thread, so some posts may seem out of order when reading it. Which saiy "Improper Load" Any have an idea what this Improper Load could be?

www.emtbforums.com

if you look at the photos in this link you can clearly see where the water enters... at the screw next to the red gasket (sealing aluminum/plastic part with plugs on the other side of the print, see also the water damage

 

[Bearing Man]

Bosch Gen4 Speed motor also broke today... now the water appears to be coming through the motor/print plate seal again
(same as my bosch gen 2)
so not via the bearing seal! View attachment 142173

This does happen, because Bosch decided to move the plugs from the dry protected environment at the top of the motor (as on the Gen 2), to the wet mud packed underbelly at the bottom of the motor. However, this only tends to cause corrosion damage to the pins, and does not usually physically enter the motor through the gasket or plug pins (unless you try and blast the mud from your belly pan with a hose/pressure washer).

I can show you all exactly why most of these motors fail and the upgrade we have been testing to stop these failures, but until we have all the parts manufactured and ready to go I am having to keep quiet. Please be patient, I will issue a full post once we receive the last components that we are waiting for.

 

[Bones]

This does happen, because Bosch decided to move the plugs from the dry protected environment at the top of the motor (as on the Gen 2), to the wet mud packed underbelly at the bottom of the motor. However, this only tends to cause corrosion damage to the pins, and does not usually physically enter the motor through the gasket or plug pins (unless you try and blast the mud from your belly pan with a hose/pressure washer).

I can show you all exactly why most of these motors fail and the upgrade we have been testing to stop these failures, but until we have all the parts manufactured and ready to go I am having to keep quiet. Please be patient, I will issue a full post once we receive the last components that we are waiting for.

Mine should be arriving at yours tomorrow. As I'm out of action for a month with a broken hand, is it worth waiting for better parts?

 

[Bearing Man]

Mine should be arriving at yours tomorrow. As I'm out of action for a month with a broken hand, is it worth waiting for better parts?

Have sent a PM.

 

[RustyMTB]

On that Pete, I'm off the bike for a month from today because of eye surgery. I can detect nothing wrong with my motor but at 4000 miles, I'm minded to send it in for a once over anyway & would definitely be up for guinea pigging an upgrade. I Hear you on what you said on where you are with part development, but keen to go if there's a possibility of coinciding.

 

[irie]

Few weeks ago talked again with the eBike Motor Centre who then still hadn't yet got all the custom parts they're having made. So because our January 2022 Rail 5's (mine 3,000 miles, wife's 1,000 miles) are still running fine will contact the Centre again when we return from France in mid July. Now the bikes are out of warranty a full preventative annual overhaul is sensible (imo).

 

[RustyMTB]

Yep, probably will do anyhow. Going to use the time off to overhaul the bike top to bottom, only to batter the life out of it as soon as the doctors let me out.

 

[Bearing Man]

On that Pete, I'm off the bike for a month from today because of eye surgery. I can detect nothing wrong with my motor but at 4000 miles, I'm minded to send it in for a once over anyway & would definitely be up for guinea pigging an upgrade. I Hear you on what you said on where you are with part development, but keen to go if there's a possibility of coinciding.

No problem, just send it in and we'll give it the once over and upgrade.

 

[Bearing Man]

Few weeks ago talked again with the eBike Motor Centre who then still hadn't yet got all the custom parts they're having made. So because our January 2022 Rail 5's (mine 3,000 miles, wife's 1,000 miles) are still running fine will contact the Centre again when we return from France in mid July. Now the bikes are out of warranty a full preventative annual overhaul is sensible (imo).

Just in case you didn't realise, I am Peter, owner of the eBike Motor Centre . Sorry, we didn't realise you were an EMTB Forum member when you called. We do have a few parts put by for special people