"2nd dead bosch gen 4 motor not happy

[Tubby G]

A thing about forums. They are stuffed with unhappy people who have had a problem. It's just human nature. You buy a bike, the motor fails & as they say, take to the internet. People out there with thousands of miles on their bikes tend not to complain about how great everything is going.

The only people who know how flaky or not the motors are will be the manufacurers & Pete. And one of those two at least is never telling you. The other might or might not.

I just seem to be one of the unlucky ones that always has issues. It’s one of the reasons I got myself a second e-bike, so in theory I’ll always have one to ride whilst the other is in for repairs

 

[RustyMTB]

Believe you me Tubs, the fear of a failed motor is always in the back of my mind too. That is to say the fear of not having my beloved bike for a while but there are things you can do to mitigate water getting into a Bosch. I did a whole thread on it & everything. Over here, it's coming up on 4000 miles & gets ridden non stop, summer & winter. I know it's a matter of time one way or the other but like to think I've done what I can to extend the up time as much as possible.

 

[AF1]

Believe you me Tubs, the fear of a failed motor is always in the back of my mind too. That is to say the fear of not having my beloved bike for a while but there are things you can do to mitigate water getting into a Bosch. I did a whole thread on it & everything. Over here, it's coming up on 4000 miles & gets ridden non stop, summer & winter. I know it's a matter of time one way or the other but like to think I've done what I can to extend the up time as much as possible.

 

[AF1]

We should not have to worry about water, magnetism or shocks killing our motors. They should be 'fit for purpose' and robust. They are EMTB motors with an EMTB Mode, so they should be able to withstand EMTB environments of the country they are sold into. They should not be failing when nearly new, this smacks of poor quality control or poor design or both. The big question is "What can be done about this"? Brose are leading the way in making spares fully available for 'Out of Warranty" failures, we can only hope Bosch and the others follow suit. This will happen if they lose market share.

 

[Tubby G]

We should not have to worry about water, magnetism or shocks killing our motors. They should be 'fit for purpose' and robust. They are EMTB motors with an EMTB Mode, so they should be able to withstand EMTB environments of the country they are sold into. They should not be failing when nearly new, this smacks of poor quality control or poor design or both. The big question is "What can be done about this"? Brose are leading the way in making spares fully available for 'Out of Warranty" failures, we can only hope Bosch and the others follow suit. This will happen if they lose market share.

I completely agree that the motors aren’t really fit for purpose for mountain biking in UK conditions. Trouble is, if EMTB is only a very small share of the motor manufacturers’ sales, and then riders in poor weather conditions such as us in the UK are an even smaller minority, then we probably haven’t got ourselves a loud enough voice to persuade manufacturers to design more robust motors.

 

[RustyMTB]

We should not have to worry about water, magnetism or shocks killing our motors. They should be 'fit for purpose' and robust. They are EMTB motors with an EMTB Mode, so they should be able to withstand EMTB environments of the country they are sold into. They should not be failing when nearly new, this smacks of poor quality control or poor design or both. The big question is "What can be done about this"? Brose are leading the way in making spares fully available for 'Out of Warranty" failures, we can only hope Bosch and the others follow suit. This will happen if they lose market share.

All of this has been explained to you in previous posts. By now you are merely repetitively axe grinding.

 

[AF1]

The motors are designed for emtbs but not well enough. Your argument that emtbs are only 10% of the market therefore failure is acceptable does not hold water and is irrelevant.

 

[RustyMTB]

It's not my argument mate...

And they do hold water or else Pete would be out of business . Seriously mate, you're barking at the moon. Why not just write a strongly worded letter to Bosch if it makes you feel better? Pissing about in here like Captain Mainwaring is getting you exactly nowhere.

 

[Gareth]

Pissing about in here like Captain Mainwaring is getting you exactly nowhere.

Or you could do us all a favour and put a sock in it.

 

[RustyMTB]

I mean I could go all confrontational but you're right Jock, I will. Please enjoy your upcoming 2nd month & AF1, be sure to let us all know as soon as you've bent the EU & Bosch to your will, there's a good lad.

 

[Gareth]

I just seem to be one of the unlucky ones that always has issues. It’s one of the reasons I got myself a second e-bike, so in theory I’ll always have one to ride whilst the other is in for repairs

To be honest if I had better knees and was a bit younger, I wouldn’t bother with emtb’s. The ebike allows me to do things I couldn’t otherwise do today - it is highly addictive.

Yeah I’ve been toying with the idea of getting another. The cycle to work scheme is a big help in that respect.

Hopefully, as you say Tubby, if I can keep the old one going and get a new one, maybe I’ll always have a working ebike rolling.

But, yeah undecided at the mo.

Anyway some of the talk here of ebike motors managing a few thousand miles without an issue reminds me of being in a Ducati dealership many years ago, when I asked about reliability, the salesman pointed to a used 900SS in the corner and boasted that it had covered 10,000 miles without any serious issues.

 

[Ark]

if EMTB is only a very small share of the motor manufacturers’ sales

is it really though? it seems to be where the motors are showcased in MTB events.
also all the bike shops I've seen, most of the electric bikes are mtb.

most commuters are on old analogue bikes apart from the odd folding bike

 

[AF1]

Figures are hard to find however I found this:

AI-generated answer

 

[AF1]

Bosch motors are failing in urban ebikes too.

 

[Tubby G]

Hi all. Just to confirm I have my Canyon back in my pocession with a brand spanking new Bosch motor fitted under warranty

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Is Bafang the way to go?
From what I've read they are easier self serviceable and spare parts are readily available.

 

[AF1]

Is Bafang the way to go?
From what I've read they are easier self serviceable and spare parts are readily available.

You may be right, my wife's Bafang powered ebike is 14 yrs old and still going strong! Have you a link to Bafang's mid drive Seviceability?

 

[Bones]

Thanks for the reply.
I was told the code but can't remember.
I have had zero problems until now. Bike put away and I went away for 2 weeks.
Put on charge on return and got the error without even moving bike.
Been waiting about 3 weeks for Bosch to decide what they want to do.
I will phone shop tomorrow and get full code.

I have eventually got my bike back after refusing to spend £720 on a new motor.
Error codes are 500331 and 500366 which relates to software errors?
It's currently on its way to the bearing man for his advice on whether it's serviceable or not

 

[Bndit]

Bosch motors are failing in urban ebikes too.

True. My second motor failed after two years and 7000km, First one went down after 1 year and 4000km. Waiting my LSB to get the the day¨s price. If Bosch don't want support, it's all on me, 959€ new motor installed and I can keep the old.

 

[AF1]

True. My second motor failed after two years and 7000km, First one went down after 1 year and 4000km. Waiting my LSB to get the the day¨s price. If Bosch don't want support, it's all on me, 959€ new motor installed and I can keep the old.

I searched online and some riders are fitting Bafang motors to failed Bosch powered bikes using adapters. Bafang do make motor parts available.

 

[Bndit]

I'll stick with Bosch, it comes with two years warranty so it's only 500€/year. Still cheaper than driving a car

 

[Binhill1]

I'll stick with Bosch, it comes with two years warranty so it's only 500€/year. Still cheaper than driving a car

Yes we just have to accept the high price we are paying for loads of fun. Not a poor man's hobby though.

 

[Bones]

I searched online and some riders are fitting Bafang motors to failed Bosch powered bikes using adapters. Bafang do make motor parts available.

That is something I will consider
I do believe that the bafang motor is fully repairable. Not sure yet how well it performs against the Bosch, but a rubber band will work better than a dead motor

 

[AF1]

That is something I will consider
I do believe that the bafang motor is fully repairable. Not sure yet how well it performs against the Bosch, but a rubber band will work better than a dead motor

Pete at EBMC can fully repair Bafang & Brose motors I believe..

 

[Zimmerframe]

Is Bafang the way to go?
From what I've read they are easier self serviceable and spare parts are readily available.

I run a Brose 1.3, Bosch Gen4 and Bafang M510. I like them all, they're all good. All ball park similar but obviously all different in various ways.

I've had no problems with any of them. They get abused. However, they always go inside a van, not on a carrier. I try not to wash them except when absolutely necessary - they get brushed down. They all get thoroughly dried if they've been wet (perched near a woodburner after being dried with a leaf blower).

The Bafang seemed pretty reliable, but once it went mainstream with the E-Mythique and a lot more people started hammering them on EMTB's there was a huge increase in problems - nearly all water related. Some parts are easy to get hold of, but not everything.

My Brose has been extensively (and stupidly) submerged and will need to goto Pete's at some point (probably sooner rather than later whilst it's still repairable ... maybe ..) However, it still works.

Pete at EBMC can fully repair Bafang & Brose motors I believe..

Brose - yes. Bafang - no.

As Pete has said, if you want something repairable, the brose is the way to go.

As Pete and others have said and taken the time to extensively explain and demonstate (search the forum, it's all been discussed a zillion times) You can't just say they're not fit for purpose as a blanket statement. People abuse them. Drown them, pedal strike them, jet wash them.

Yes, bearings could be better/different - but there's a trade off. You'll end up with heavier draggier motors with worse range and or power and will then complain they're not fit for purpose because they don't go far enough.

I think Gareth said earlier in the thread that he was constantly having to change all his bearings because of where/how he rides - but was upset about the motor... so all the other bearings fail, but the motor ones are supposed to be magic ?

They're mountain bikes, we want and expect them to perform in a certain way - ultimately they're a performance based item - you can either have that or something which weighs 50% more which is heftier built, but will ride like a bag of crap.

Yes, in the future, hopefully people will come up with different ways of doing things - but at the moment, it is what it is - you pay your money and make your choice - making the same complains over and over won't change anything.

 

[Stihldog]

Yes we just have to accept the high price we are paying for loads of fun. Not a poor man's hobby though.

I can’t wrap my head around the high price of an EU Bosch motor. .

If I remember, my neighbor spent $800CDN for a new replacement. (Exchange rate?). That’s still expensive …but why is the EU so expensive? Maybe cost(s) are rising?

 

[AF1]

I run a Brose 1.3, Bosch Gen4 and Bafang M510. I like them all, they're all good. All ball park similar but obviously all different in various ways.

I've had no problems with any of them. They get abused. However, they always go inside a van, not on a carrier. I try not to wash them except when absolutely necessary - they get brushed down. They all get thoroughly dried if they've been wet (perched near a woodburner after being dried with a leaf blower).

The Bafang seemed pretty reliable, but once it went mainstream with the E-Mythique and a lot more people started hammering them on EMTB's there was a huge increase in problems - nearly all water related. Some parts are easy to get hold of, but not everything.

My Brose has been extensively (and stupidly) submerged and will need to goto Pete's at some point (probably sooner rather than later whilst it's still repairable ... maybe ..) However, it still works.



Brose - yes. Bafang - no.

As Pete has said, if you want something repairable, the brose is the way to go.

As Pete and others have said and taken the time to extensively explain and demonstate (search the forum, it's all been discussed a zillion times) You can't just say they're not fit for purpose as a blanket statement. People abuse them. Drown them, pedal strike them, jet wash them.

Yes, bearings could be better/different - but there's a trade off. You'll end up with heavier draggier motors with worse range and or power and will then complain they're not fit for purpose because they don't go far enough.

I think Gareth said earlier in the thread that he was constantly having to change all his bearings because of where/how he rides - but was upset about the motor... so all the other bearings fail, but the motor ones are supposed to be magic ?

They're mountain bikes, we want and expect them to perform in a certain way - ultimately they're a performance based item - you can either have that or something which weighs 50% more which is heftier built, but will ride like a bag of crap.

Yes, in the future, hopefully people will come up with different ways of doing things - but at the moment, it is what it is - you pay your money and make your choice - making the same complains over and over won't change anything.

How much more drag would a couple of seals and stainless or ceramic bearings add? And 50% more weight - I don't think so! And why don't they all make all motor parts available? Why are motors so expensive? If customers don't complain, then nothing is going to change. Article in the Guardian this Saturday might get their attention.

 

[Gareth]

I think Gareth said earlier in the thread that he was constantly having to change all his bearings because of where/how he rides - but was upset about the motor... so all the other bearings fail, but the motor ones are supposed to be magic ?

Maybe I’m that Gareth.

Just bought my Cube a new front wheel as the front hub has failed, just as the rear hub did last year.

Pretty much every bearing on my 2021 bike has been replaced once now, the top headset bearing twice.

Yeah it is a pain, but these things are repairable.

Problem is my Bosch motor was a basket case after only 3450 miles. I’d say that’s crap. And the reason it was a basket case is because Bosch won’t provide parts or support for their motors. They consider them to be sealed units that will last many years and many miles. Not in Scotland they don’t.

And whilst my motor bearings needed replaced, it was water ingress killing the PCB that wrote off my motor. Again Bosch think their motors are bomb proof and won't support repairs.

Yes, in the future, hopefully people will come up with different ways of doing things - but at the moment, it is what it is - you pay your money and make your choice

I’ve walked into several bike shops to window shop. When I asked are ‘these e bike motors reliable?’, they all reply, sure – we rarely ever have any issues. But the fact is anybody and everybody who buys an emtb in Scotland and uses it on a regular basis will almost certainly experience e-motor failure. The truth is all the major bike shops in the UK have buckets, if not skips full of emtb e-bike motors. But they ain't gonna tell their customers that they are about to buy into a pile of shite.

- making the same complains over and over won't change anything.

So no, lets call it out for it is. It is crap. So far I’ve had one motor last 3450 miles, the next lasted only 180 miles. Absolute utter crap. Never been submerged and never pressure washed.

 

[Stihldog]

I want the submarine-watertight-29” model when it comes out. Might be expensive though and I don’t need the nuclear model.

All I can say is that some of us are lucky. My Bosch gen4 motor has around 20k kms, and I barely hear it. It rains here too, and deep creek's need to be crossed . I can only hold my breath for so long though.

 

[Binhill1]

I can’t wrap my head around the high price of an EU Bosch motor. .

If I remember, my neighbor spent $800CDN for a new replacement. (Exchange rate?). That’s still expensive …but why is the EU so expensive? Maybe cost(s) are rising?

Can't help you there. Last time I looked Specialized motor was around £900 battery £1200. That's half the price of a decent enough Ebike I would think. Then again a new basic car in UK is probably £17 grand more reliable than a Ebike I would hope .