2024 Santa Cruz Heckler SL

[cykelk]

That noise level is fine imo.

Thanks for another vote of confidence! I found this video that I think better captures what I hear with my bike.

It’s more the character that worried me than the volume. Sort of a “grind” type of sound. After all though the warranty is two years, so I’ll just stop obsessing and ride the snot out of it If Jenson team comes back with info worth sharing I’ll follow up.

 

[cykelk]

Time for a consolidated review now that I've got about a week on this bike (GX AXS kit) and have ridden a good circuit of local trails from mellow(ish) to, as seems to be a popular term lately, "steep and deep" enduro style trails. Total ~55 miles and 11,400 ft elevation.

Context​

I ordered this bike to replace a Transition Repeater (full-power EP8 bike) with some notion that it might also replace my Sentinel (leg-only). I've been running both of those bikes with coil suspension, WAO Union wheels, and burly tires: they are set up to charge and I want the same from the HSL. The Repeater got me hooked on eMTB but after a full season I just never got used to the weight.

Fazua R60 Impressions / vs EP8 (since that's the one I know)​

I really like the way this motor system delivers power, and the Fazua tuning controls in the app mean no trouble dialing it in to personal preferences or different riding scenarios. I've now climbed some of the steeper access roads in my area (grades exceeding 25%) and the bike handles it fine. I work a bit harder and move a bit slower than on the Repeater, but it's still plenty of power to eat up the otherwise brutal slogs. I was prepared for a larger gap, and maybe I'll feel it more once I do another group ride with FullEs. I can share climbing comparison numbers for some of my own rides, if anyone is interested.

I also like the clean cockpit without an integrated display. The top-tube LEDs are bright! I'd love to have a way to turn them off. Love having my input power data to the system on my ride computer, and if anyone knows how to add motor power let me know. A few little nits: I wish we could OTA firmware updates from the phone app (again someone correct me if I'm missing something here), and Fazua Toolbox doesn't have arm processor (Apple silicon) support so I had to dig up an old Windows computer and cross my fingers that it still worked (it did). I've talked enough about motor noise here so I'll leave that where it is.

Component Spec Thoughts​

Santa Cruz mostly nailed it with the GX kit. Suspension is excellent, wheels are good (would have preferred to take the weight hit and get the HD AL version), and Transmission drivetrain is what you'd expect. The "shifting under load" claims for T-Type are exaggerated IMO...shifting with reckless abandon still feels and sounds like it'll break a chain in short order.

The Downhills​

I'm inclined to agree with Biker's Edge that it's the most fun you can have on two wheels. I dunno what else to say really - it carves, rips, sends, etc... Descending character is quiet and supportive and the weight savings are really noticeable. The first few rides I had a little bit of trouble staying forward on the bike in heavy impacts or high-g scenarios, but I quickly adapted or got the fork rebound dialed in, or some combination of both.

Conclusion​

It's good fun everywhere, would buy again.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Cykelk, what size and what's your ready to ride bike weight for your Heckler SL?

 

[deksawyer]

Fazua Toolbox doesn't have arm processor (Apple silicon) support

The Fazua Toolbox works on my M1 Mac, so I don't know where you got that info.

Love having my input power data to the system on my ride computer

I use a sigma ROC 11.1 Evo GPS computer and it shows everything from the bike - the Fazua instructions on setting them up are pretty good, but I guess it all depends on your computer brand/model.

EDIT - input power, yeah, a tricky one I think without crank sensors. The Sigma has these selections under Power, not sure what most of them are tbh.

 

[cykelk]

The Fazua Toolbox works on my M1 Mac, so I don't know where you got that info.

It didn't work on my M1 Macbook. Did you have to do anything specific to get it connected?

 

[cykelk]

Cykelk, what size and what's your ready to ride bike weight for your Heckler SL?

Size L - 44 lbs via bathroom scale with pedals, bottle cage, computer mount, and a generous helping of dried mud.

 

[deksawyer]

It didn't work on my M1 Macbook. Did you have to do anything specific to get it connected?

No, just downloaded, installed and then plugged the bike in.

There's a new version out, to go with the bikes newest firmware, but you may already have that.

 

[Freezer]

I did a factory demo on the bike today in Santa Cruz. Rode 5 laps at UCSC, 4,200' vert and had two bars of battery left, I figure about 30% battery remaining. I was probably putting in about 180-200 watts on the climbs. Climbed in River, descended in Breeze. The motor has plenty of power, definitely more than the Kenevo SL. The frame is nice, the suspension is active/supple, the bike feels surprisingly nimble/jibby for an ebike and jumps very nicely. The only thing that gives me pause is some weird noises the motor was making at the top of the climbs (about 700' vert in 18 min). The motor makes two distinct noises. The first is the usual electric motor whine/whir which is normal and what everybody talks about in the review videos. That electric motor noise is quite low and very acceptable. The second noise it started to make at the top of the climbs is a mechanical noise that sounds like bearings that are going or maybe gears that are grinding a little. Every climb it got louder so I assume it is some wear issue. I asked the guys at Santa Cruz about it and they had no clue and basically didn't want to talk about it. Not confidence inspiring, which is a drag because I was pretty set on getting one, but now I'm not so sure.

 

[Freezer]

So far they've been great. Here's a clip from my morning ride - the louder clicks are me turning the assist off and on but otherwise it's motor noise. Would love to get thoughts from the other HSL owners here.

IMG_6555.mp4

• cykelk
• Oct 6, 2023
• heckler sl motor noise

Motor noise

That's exactly the noise I heard when I demo'd the bike today. Happened at the top of hard climbs- up to 25% for 15-20 min. Probably because the motor is getting hot. Sounds like a mechanical grinding noise like the bearings are going or the gears are worn. Would be really interested in what you find out because I like the bike a lot, but wary of the motor noise.

 

[cykelk]

That's exactly the noise I heard when I demo'd the bike today. Happened at the top of hard climbs- up to 25% for 15-20 min. Probably because the motor is getting hot. Sounds like a mechanical grinding noise like the bearings are going or the gears are worn. Would be really interested in what you find out because I like the bike a lot, but wary of the motor noise.

I've got a second video in my album if you're interested. The clicking sounds do seem to get louder as the system heats up. I filed tickets with both Santa Cruz and Fazua over the weekend: Santa Cruz directed me to visit an SC dealer for evaluation, but Fazua jumped right in directly. I submitted video, they reviewed, asked me for some data from Toolbox, and determined I needed a replacement. The longest wait in the process so far was me getting back to the bike to get them the data so I'm hopeful I can get this sorted between Fazua and my preferred shop / mechanic (there's no local Santa Cruz dealer that I want in the middle).

If you're local to Santa Cruz HQ I wouldn't worry as much about it, although wanting to ignore the problem is certainly concerning.

 

[Sebov]

I've got a second video in my album if you're interested. The clicking sounds do seem to get louder as the system heats up. I filed tickets with both Santa Cruz and Fazua over the weekend: Santa Cruz directed me to visit an SC dealer for evaluation, but Fazua jumped right in directly. I submitted video, they reviewed, asked me for some data from Toolbox, and determined I needed a replacement. The longest wait in the process so far was me getting back to the bike to get them the data so I'm hopeful I can get this sorted between Fazua and my preferred shop / mechanic (there's no local Santa Cruz dealer that I want in the middle).

If you're local to Santa Cruz HQ I wouldn't worry as much about it, although wanting to ignore the problem is certainly concerning.

Oh no. Not good at all... Hope it will be fast!

 

[cykelk]

Oh no. Not good at all... Hope it will be fast!

I’ve been pleased with Fazua so far. We’re waiting on a motor shipment from Germany but otherwise everything is lined up, and I can still ride the bike.

 

[Bluedirtz]

I’m seriously considering the heckler SL, but I already have the LEVO SL with the 160 range extender. Is the heckler SL battery going to provide more range than my current LEVO SL?

The most I’ve done with my LEVO SL plus the RE was around ~4,200 feet of elevation and had a combination of eco and trail modes. I was a little sore afterwards

I am debating if I should just get a full power and keep the LEVO SL or Heckler SL and LEVO SL.

Appreciate the input!

 

[Sebov]

I’m seriously considering the heckler SL, but I already have the LEVO SL with the 160 range extender. Is the heckler SL battery going to provide more range than my current LEVO SL?

The most I’ve done with my LEVO SL plus the RE was around ~4,200 feet of elevation and had a combination of eco and trail modes. I was a little sore afterwards

I am debating if I should just get a full power and keep the LEVO SL or Heckler SL and LEVO SL.

Appreciate the input!

I would not keep a Heckler SL and a Levo SL. Too similiar. Am a SL guy who doesn‘t like the weight of full power e bikes. So maybe a Pivot Shuttle AM or Wild would be my only choice - about 21/22kg. My dealer said that the Fazua range extender (~210 Wh) will be coming, so ~ 640 Wh in total is in full power territory. Fun and nimble for the daily ride. Heavier and more range if you need it.

 

[cykelk]

I’m seriously considering the heckler SL, but I already have the LEVO SL with the 160 range extender. Is the heckler SL battery going to provide more range than my current LEVO SL?

The most I’ve done with my LEVO SL plus the RE was around ~4,200 feet of elevation and had a combination of eco and trail modes. I was a little sore afterwards

I am debating if I should just get a full power and keep the LEVO SL or Heckler SL and LEVO SL.

Appreciate the input!

I did a ride yesterday with a buddy on his full power bike: 4300 feet over ~18 miles in about two hours of moving time. I spent the first 85% of the ride in Rocket so as to keep pace as well as I could, then 15% -> 6% in River and the final bit nursing Breeze. I ended the ride with 1% showing on the computer, but still getting assist. I bumped back up to Rocket and pedaled around for a little bit to see if I could get it to give in but it didn't, not sure what happens at 1% on this system (the EP8 goes into "limp home" forced-Eco at 1% and I've also never fully drained that out).

Anyway in general the range is certainly less than a full power bike, but still quite good. My buddy had somewhere on the order of 15% (of his 630Wh) battery left. A 210Wh range extender will make it capable of pretty big days.

 

[SenditOTB]

Has anyone here ridden/ owned the regular heckler anf can compare to the SL? On paper the ~ 3kg difference seems to be pretty small

 

[Suns_PSD]

I’m seriously considering the heckler SL, but I already have the LEVO SL with the 160 range extender. Is the heckler SL battery going to provide more range than my current LEVO SL?

The most I’ve done with my LEVO SL plus the RE was around ~4,200 feet of elevation and had a combination of eco and trail modes. I was a little sore afterwards

I am debating if I should just get a full power and keep the LEVO SL or Heckler SL and LEVO SL.

Appreciate the input!

I've ridden my Relay (with the Fazua 60) next to a buddy on the new Levo SL.

We have similar range, when he runs his RE.

I suspect my F60 could go further than he could, with the RE. Also, there goes his weight advantage since he nearly always had the RE on.

I've ridden with full power e- bikes 2x and there are some differences on long climbs, but we are still on the same ride together. They can just pull away a bit on those steep long climbs. Not enough to matter imo.

 

[Bluedirtz]

I've ridden my Relay (with the Fazua 60) next to a buddy on the new Levo SL.

We have similar range, when he runs his RE.

I suspect my F60 could go further than he could, with the RE. Also, there goes his weight advantage since he nearly always had the RE on.

I've ridden with full power e- bikes 2x and there are some differences on long climbs, but we are still on the same ride together. They can just pull away a bit on those steep long climbs. Not enough to matter imo.

What range did you get when you rodel with the LEVO SL? Thank you!

 

[Suns_PSD]

What range did you get when you rodel with the LEVO SL? Thank you!

I don't use Strava these days so don't have good numbers for you, but others have posted them.

You should be able to get a about 3.5K' climbing in Rocket mode and 6'K climbing in Breeze mode. Tons of variables obviously including your weight, how power sucking is your terrain, tire choice, etc.

I most certainly think the F60 drivetrain is a better package than the motor/ battery combo utilized in the new Levo SL. The Levo Sl2 is louder, and the standard battery is sufficient for a quick after work ride, but not much else imo.

The weight advantage on the SL2 is a farce imo. The battery is smaller, it doesn't have a front chainring protection, it doesn't have good dropper insertion so that ends up being short, some models use CF cranks which I don't think are a good idea in this application, and the chainstays are oddly short. Then you pretty much lose your bottle holder cause the RE is needed and now you have to carry a heavy pack. Once you normalize for these things it's essentially the same weight as the F60 equipped bikes.

 

[Bluedirtz]

I don't use Strava these days so don't have good numbers for you, but others have posted them.

You should be able to get a about 3.5K' climbing in Rocket mode and 6'K climbing in Breeze mode. Tons of variables obviously including your weight, how power sucking is your terrain, tire choice, etc.

I most certainly think the F60 drivetrain is a better package than the motor/ battery combo utilized in the new Levo SL. The Levo Sl2 is louder, and the standard battery is sufficient for a quick after work ride, but not much else imo.

The weight advantage on the SL2 is a farce imo. The battery is smaller, it doesn't have a front chainring protection, it doesn't have good dropper insertion so that ends up being short, some models use CF cranks which I don't think are a good idea in this application, and the chainstays are oddly short. Then you pretty much lose your bottle holder cause the RE is needed and now you have to carry a heavy pack. Once you normalize for these things it's essentially the same weight as the F60 equipped bikes.

I 100% agree with all the points you brought up! Thank you! I’m 1 hr away from Transition HQ, and will demo the Relay.

 

[Harold]

I don't use Strava these days so don't have good numbers for you, but others have posted them.

You should be able to get a about 3.5K' climbing in Rocket mode and 6'K climbing in Breeze mode. Tons of variables obviously including your weight, how power sucking is your terrain, tire choice, etc.

I most certainly think the F60 drivetrain is a better package than the motor/ battery combo utilized in the new Levo SL. The Levo Sl2 is louder, and the standard battery is sufficient for a quick after work ride, but not much else imo.

The weight advantage on the SL2 is a farce imo. The battery is smaller, it doesn't have a front chainring protection, it doesn't have good dropper insertion so that ends up being short, some models use CF cranks which I don't think are a good idea in this application, and the chainstays are oddly short. Then you pretty much lose your bottle holder cause the RE is needed and now you have to carry a heavy pack. Once you normalize for these things it's essentially the same weight as the F60 equipped bikes.

What about the elephant in the room: F60 reliability issues. This is a young, less mature system so it is more subjected to engineering issues, but I have heard sooo many stories about motor bugs, this is alarming. Some of my Santa dealers simply refused to order the heckler SL because of that.

I guess you personally did not encounter issues so far, good for you, but still comparing both platform should imply mentioning reliability.

 

[Sebov]

What about the elephant in the room: F60 reliability issues. This is a young, less mature system so it is more subjected to engineering issues, but I have heard sooo many stories about motor bugs, this is alarming. Some of my Santa dealers simply refused to order the heckler SL because of that.

I guess you personally did not encounter issues so far, good for you, but still comparing both platform should imply mentioning reliability.

I was concerned about that too and that‘s why I did not order a F60 bike right after the announcement.

I have a Gen 1 Levo SL. After the first ride in a heavy storm my drivetrain died - water. My dealer and Specialized were with order and swap of all the cables in 2 days uber fast, but I was on a roadtrip with friends - bad luck.

Brose is also well known for reliability issues. But Specialized/Brose are known for generous and fast warranty process.

It can affect all of the systems. What really matters is the duration and money for getting it fixed.

And the bike itself matters. It‘s not just the drivetrain. Which BIKE/ride characteristic and quality do you want to have? I am relatively new to e bikes but that’s still the most important for me and why I like SL e bikes. Getting up is kind of Okay, but the descent is all that matters. I live in the german alps with steep, tight and sometimes rough descents on hiking trails.
So there are just a few bikes I am interested in - all Mullet for tight turns: Relay, Heckler SL, Levo SL.

Unfortunately anything with TQ because the drivetrain it‘s too close to my Mullet Gen 1 Levo SL which I will keep for family rides with my wife and kids trailer - and so is the Gen 2 tbh. Battery is still the same and too small for the increased power.
Relay kits are incredibly expensive in Germany.
I was on a Nomad V4 and a Mega V1. Liked them. Heckler SL it is.

So I said: hopefully F60 will be okay

 

[Bluedirtz]

What about the elephant in the room: F60 reliability issues. This is a young, less mature system so it is more subjected to engineering issues, but I have heard sooo many stories about motor bugs, this is alarming. Some of my Santa dealers simply refused to order the heckler SL because of that.

I guess you personally did not encounter issues so far, good for you, but still comparing both platform should imply mentioning reliability.

That is one thing I enjoy about my LEVO SL is the refined motor and reliability. From day 1 no issue whatsoever.

 

[cykelk]

I 100% agree with all the points you brought up! Thank you! I’m 1 hr away from Transition HQ, and will demo the Relay.

I’m in Bellingham, ping me if you want to meet up for the ride.

 

[cykelk]

I guess you personally did not encounter issues so far, good for you, but still comparing both platform should imply mentioning reliability.

There are plenty of failure stories for every motor system, most of us will be speculating based on stories we've read rather than sharing any accurate representation of failure probability. A good many of the Fazua warranties I've seen are simply noise related, mine included, meaning still rideable and minimal downtime to get fixed. I see Relays with happy riders bombing around every time I'm out on the mountain.

 

[Bluedirtz]

I’m in Bellingham, ping me if you want to meet up for the ride.

That’s awesome! Will do!

 

[Freezer]

I did a ride yesterday with a buddy on his full power bike: 4300 feet over ~18 miles in about two hours of moving time. I spent the first 85% of the ride in Rocket so as to keep pace as well as I could, then 15% -> 6% in River and the final bit nursing Breeze. I ended the ride with 1% showing on the computer, but still getting assist. I bumped back up to Rocket and pedaled around for a little bit to see if I could get it to give in but it didn't, not sure what happens at 1% on this system (the EP8 goes into "limp home" forced-Eco at 1% and I've also never fully drained that out).

Anyway in general the range is certainly less than a full power bike, but still quite good. My buddy had somewhere on the order of 15% (of his 630Wh) battery left. A 210Wh range extender will make it capable of pretty big days.

Taking your battery that low is a great way to trash the battery. If you stop using the batterty around 15% or so remaining you'll preserve battery life.

 

[Freezer]

I don't use Strava these days so don't have good numbers for you, but others have posted them.

You should be able to get a about 3.5K' climbing in Rocket mode and 6'K climbing in Breeze mode. Tons of variables obviously including your weight, how power sucking is your terrain, tire choice, etc.

I most certainly think the F60 drivetrain is a better package than the motor/ battery combo utilized in the new Levo SL. The Levo Sl2 is louder, and the standard battery is sufficient for a quick after work ride, but not much else imo.

The weight advantage on the SL2 is a farce imo. The battery is smaller, it doesn't have a front chainring protection, it doesn't have good dropper insertion so that ends up being short, some models use CF cranks which I don't think are a good idea in this application, and the chainstays are oddly short. Then you pretty much lose your bottle holder cause the RE is needed and now you have to carry a heavy pack. Once you normalize for these things it's essentially the same weight as the F60 equipped bikes.

Also the SL2 skews more toward trail bike and the Heckler SL skews toward enduro bike.

 

[cykelk]

Taking your battery that low is a great way to trash the battery. If you stop using the batterty around 15% or so remaining you'll preserve battery life.

I mean, if I want to do full-battery rides that’s what I’m gonna do it’s useful data and it’s certainly not every ride. I’m an electrical engineer by profession so you can bet I’m more obsessive about charge management than most.

 

[squeegee]

Regarding Relay, one thing I've not seen addressed anywhere is, supposing an RE is released for Fazua which eventually should happen, how will the Relay be compatible since the charging port is inside the frame? I realize the battery is 430W but I really don't believe that is enough to last on big rides with other bikes running 700W+ batteries.

Having owned a Gen1 Levo SL and having ridden big days with the RE next to other FF bikes, my range was always on par with them if I kept in trail, only using turbo in select scenarios.

I have issue believing that a more powerful Ride 60 motor and only 430W battery can get near the range of the FF bikes. I also wouldn't consider riding in eco all day (breeze or whatever Fazua calls it) as a useful metric of range. Would need to be a more comfortable trail setting comparison "Fazua 60 trail mode vs. FF 700W trail mode" for total range.

Thoughts?