Rail (750Wh) 2022 Bosch Smart 750 Trek Rail Thread

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Super nice! Assuming 170mm in front. Is that a 160mm shock? The carbon wheels look mint & good choice on the tyres as the stock ones are not great in the wet/mud. Enjoy!

170 Front. I think it’s about 170 in the rear too.
Am running a 230x62.5 shock and in the high position (2.4” tyres are a fair bit smaller than the stock tyres).

Measured BB height is 442 mm (ish) and head angle is 63.8.

According to AndreXTR’s suspension analysis, the rail in the High position gives 5-6mm more travel than Low.

 

[Bama]

Testing many ebikes is a truly wonderful thing. It allows direct comparisons and understand the nuances between them. I’m also aware that not everyone has access to ride a lot of bikes, so I’m really lucky that because of what I do it allows me this fortunate position.

I’m not tied down to any brand, or sponsored by a bike company, no contracts or ties, I’m not required to ride a specific bike. My bike this season that I bought from an independent bike shop is this 2022 Trek Rail 9.8 XT.

Why?

A combination of things: Some people say you shouldn’t buy an ebike because of a specific motor. But I’ve grown to really like the Bosch, the way it delivers power, and the outright grunt. Sure, there are things that suck, like that new remote control, the bulkiness of the screen. But they are lower down on the priority list to me. A motor really changes the characteristics of how a bike behaves and climbs, so I narrowed it down to the Bosch.

I also wanted a full 29er. Loads of bikes are going mullet, but I’ve decided that full 29er is for me. I’m certain I’m faster on 29er, although mullet brings some benefits, they’re not enough to make me want one over a 29er.

The Rail rides great. Its not a nimble warrior like some lighter ebikes, it’s brawler, can smash its way though stuff. And that matches my riding style! Geometry is great. Long, slack, low BB. Oh, I sized down for this year to a L. They are bigger, a lot bigger than last years!

Also its easy to over stroke the shock to give more travel, and paired with a 170mm fork (either air shaft upgrade the 160mm or a new 170mm). This gives 170F 163R, 63.5 HA and that will really help when I take it to the Alps this summer. Longer travel ebikes just work so well. Hardly any downsides for me.

There are so many amazing ebikes out there. As long as you’re buying something from a reputable brand, you’re going to get an amazing machine, capable of so much. Pick what works for you and what you ride and you’ll be ripping it up having an amazing 2022 on an ebike!

Can’t wait to get this one charged, set up and go out. Weathers looking good outside. And my new bike needs some battle scars on it already!!

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Solid Info as usual here…..I know I My 2020 Rail!, couldn’t imagine a more powerful climbing bike( and super comfortable geometry for me)and that’s pretty important for an ebike IMHOthx for underscoring my decision…

 

[Stray cat]

How’s that Fox 38 working out for you? Much better than Zeb? Cheers

 

[Mohawk3a]

Came with a 150, spec sheet says 170, I added on a bikeyoke revive 213mm and it’s at max insertion.

Going on: I have a Fox Factory 170 and Ohlins Coil, DT Swiss carbon wheelset, maxxis DHR and Shorty / Assegai up front. Stock tyres a bit pants.

On your Gen 3 levo I noticed that you replaced the fox 38 with a zeb and installed an EXT coil. Why did you choose a fox 38 fork and Ohlins coil for the trek rail? Any thoughts you can share about the differences between the 2 suspension setups?

 

[Yoak]

Looks great Rob, almost as nice as your "shop" ;-) Wish my basement was as tidy. I'm getting mine in the spring (suits me fine as it will be easier to sell the 2021 when its not 2 feet of snow outside). I do love to ride my Rail in the winter with studded tires though. Its often tight and technical where I ride, so I'm wondering how the new geometry will play out for me. At least I have the option to go mullet if I feel the need. I doubt I bother though

 

[Ripping g]

Mmm I think my name mybe Casper

 

[Yoak]

You said you sized down, how tall are you? I already sized down to M as I'm in between M and L. My Slash is the in between size M/L, and Im happy on both my Rail 2021 and Slash 2021

 

[Andyvicks]

EXT told me it doesn’t quite fit properly. Also wanted to try the ohlins

Shame about the EXT not fitting properly as I've got (had) my eye on one for my 2021 rail, they are a thing of beauty!!

 

[cappuccino34]

That Rail looks banging! The Bosch is my favourite motor too, I just wish they'd allow third party battery development so someone can build a LW Bosch-motored bike.

In one of the Bosch smart system launch videos the Bosch guy did allude to a lightweight setup in the pipeline. He gave no dates or anything unfortunately. I'll see if I can find the video.

For me (my choice of riding) the Bosch update went the wrong way. I was hoping for better connectivity, better waterproofing and lighter weight. We did get better connectivity but with a pathetically fiddly button setup, and nothing else of what I was hoping for, so unless something new comes out with a light battery and a remote that actually suits MTB use, (rather than it suiting road use which is crazy because the sales of MTBs far outstrips other types of ebike) then I'm going to buy a GLP-2 Elite (if they ever become available again) with the basic purion controller/display and not bother about connectivity and adjustability.

 

[Motohawk75]

I also wanted something better / smaller and neater…. Unfortunately having had several Ep8 bikes if your buying an ebike because you want that big grin motor feel then the Bosh just wipes the floor with the Shimano…. Its funny because or tho its a but fiddly and obviously sticks out like a sore thumb im learning to love it and tbf compared with the purion display it’s definitely better looking ……

 

[cappuccino34]

I also wanted something better / smaller and neater…. Unfortunately having had several Ep8 bikes if your buying an ebike because you want that big grin motor feel then the Bosh just wipes the floor with the Shimano…. Its funny because or tho its a but fiddly and obviously sticks out like a sore thumb im learning to love it and tbf compared with the purion display it’s definitely better looking ……

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Can you actually use the buttons properly with winter gloves on?

 

[Motohawk75]

Can you actually use the buttons properly with winter gloves on?

I only ride in std mx gloves and the only thing tbh i use when riding is the mode select buttons which is no problem

 

[Wak]

Love my 98 xt rail in L problem I have is the new L is longer and the M shorter they just changed the front triangle to fit the battery ? O and upped the price by£1100

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

First proper ride today in the Welsh hills. Rocky, techy, slippy.

Bikes riding well.

to answer some specific questions on suspension:

After riding 3 Fox 38 170mm ‘ebike tuned’ forks on other bikes (Nukeproof Megawatt, Yeti 160e, Giant Reign E+) I found them to be very high quality forks / tunes.

The ebike specific Fox 38’s have a different tune on the damper: softer initial spring rate and more progression at the end of the stroke according to Fox.

Having been extremely impressed with the performance of them on prior bikes I’d definitely have them on my own bike.

The standard rail actually came with the Select+ Zeb which has the standard charger damper. To be honest, if I could have sourced the ultimate damper upgrade then I’d have probably just upgraded the stock forks. But there’s zero stock anywhere.

So I bought A set of Fox Factory 38’s for the Rail in 170mm. Ebike tune.

The Ohlins choice was simple. It fits (EXT doesn’t) and with a 230x62.5 shock together with the Rail Mino Link in the high position, it’s getting around 165-170 ish rear travel.

So it’s now a super capable long travel ebike, can take big hits, suitable for bike park, Alps, enduro riding, local XC loops pretty much anything. It’s the ultimate do it all ebike maybe? Works well for me and my setup

Sizing down to a Large has meant it turns quicker, is much easier to bunny hop, is more balanced than the XL (my weight is more central) at the expense of straight line stability.

With the massive 750Wh battery, the Bosch powerhouse motor and big travel it’s an incredible machine!

 

[iscander13]

I also wanted something better / smaller and neater…. Unfortunately having had several Ep8 bikes if your buying an ebike because you want that big grin motor feel then the Bosh just wipes the floor with the Shimano…. Its funny because or tho its a but fiddly and obviously sticks out like a sore thumb im learning to love it and tbf compared with the purion display it’s definitely better looking ……

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Hi. Is this controller solid enough? What happens if you flip over the handle bar? Looks like it's designed more for commuter bikes than for mtb

 

[cappuccino34]

I only ride in std mx gloves and the only thing tbh i use when riding is the mode select buttons which is no problem

You're tougher than me riding in MX gloves in this weather. :-D

 

[Jhagst]

Thanks for the update Rob

 

[brizi2003]

Hi @Rob Rides EMTB , interesting that you modified the standard bike from the get go. Can you provide some pricing info for the cost of the bike and upgrades? Personally, it's unlikely i could afford that approach. I'm normally buying the most expensive bike I can afford as this usually works out cheaper than buying cheap and upgrading. This of course means there's no spare cash for upgrades! I would always want to try the standard bike for a while and maybe upgrade later once any short comings are identified. Are your upgrades really providing significant noticeable improvement ? How can you be sure - did you ride the stock bike for any length of time?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hi @Rob Rides EMTB , interesting that you modified the standard bike from the get go. Can you provide some pricing info for the cost of the bike and upgrades? Personally, it's unlikely i could afford that approach. I'm normally buying the most expensive bike I can afford as this usually works out cheaper than buying cheap and upgrading. This of course means there's no spare cash for upgrades! I would always want to try the standard bike for a while and maybe upgrade later once any short comings are identified. Are your upgrades really providing significant noticeable improvement ? How can you be sure - did you ride the stock bike for any length of time?

Costing is cheaper for me as I get an industry discount.

To be honest I had every intention to create a big travel Bosch powered 29er ebike, and the Trek Rail fit the bill perfectly as a stock bike. I didn't ride the 9.8 bike at all in its stock form, I changed out the parts right away - but rode the 2022 9.9 AXS for at least 300Km.

 

[Jhagst]

Mine was just a bit over $2600 for the complete package, installed.
Factory Fox 38 w/Smashpot coil conversion
Ohlins TTX22M
Both ends custom revalved for my weight 250+
made a huge difference on a '21 9.7 Rail
Now waiting for the '22 to come in...fingers crossed, it's supposed to ship today.

 

[Hamina]

@Rob Rides EMTB : What is your impression on Kiox 300 and Bosch Flow app combination? How fluent is the integration with HRM-belts, Strava or equivalent etc? Every app has it's glitches but just wondering the current quality and especially end user usability on Bosch software.

I'm thinking for buying (but no actually for me) a bike with 750w system and I have a feeling that "all" development resources at Bosch has been directed to this new ecosystem and it could justify the little higher price.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@Rob Rides EMTB : What is your impression on Kiox 300 and Bosch Flow app combination? How fluent is the integration with HRM-belts, Strava or equivalent etc? Every app has it's glitches but just wondering the current quality on Bosch software.

I'm thinking for buying (but no actually for me) a bike with 750w system and I have a feeling that "all" development resources at Bosch has been directed to this new ecosystem and it could justify the little higher price.

Its a good looking app/system with great potential.

But sadly, at the moment, it's really basic in what it can do. Although it records rides automatically, there's no integration into Strava, so its pretty pointless. The ride simply sits on the app (or Apple health for those that use it)

.Can't even export the ride and import the GPX into Strava. So I end up just recording the ride on Garmin Fenix Watch as that integrated to Strava with more health stats.

The software looks very well designed, but extremely limited in application. Its only real function at the moment is to make custom riding modes. Even then its only Eco and Turbo that can be customised.

I see so much potential with this. Here's what I hope:

- Crate and share maps / rides and routes that seamlessly use the Kiox 300 as a mapping display
- Integration with 3rd parties like Garmin / Strava
- Ability to customise the Kiox 300 pages (simple things like adding a clock to a screen are needed)
- Some kind of bluetooth integration like pairing with Heart Rate Monitors

I do think that Bosch will be allocating 95% of their software resources to this. It makes sense for them to do so. I also think that Bosch eBike Systems as a company don't rush things so are not at the cutting edge of releases, rather they wait until its more polished, then release.

 

[Yoak]

I’ve always wanted a “neutral” mode, ECO- For times I run into friends on regular bikes, ECO is just to powerful. It would be great to tune ECO down so the bike is almost like a regular bike. I’m hoping this is possible with the new system

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I’ve always wanted a “neutral” mode, ECO- For times I run into friends on regular bikes, ECO is just to powerful. It would be great to tune ECO down so the bike is almost like a regular bike. I’m hoping this is possible with the new system

Yes it is

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

At least Bosch are thinking about these future features too! Here's some screen grabs for Bosch's 'What If?' ebike video...

 

[Yoak]

Thanks, nice to know. I really wish they could implement some kind of geo-fencing, say you are in a bike park, it would be nice to have a little higher max speed before cut off than 25 km/h here in Europe. the speed limit really is for public roads

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

you've already seen this bike lol but here's the first video

 

[Jhagst]

Great video, thanks

 

[Kimmoi]

At least Bosch are thinking about these future features too! Here's some screen grabs for Bosch's 'What If?' ebike video...

"Can't even export the ride and import the GPX into Strava".

They should began with this, basic things. I don't understand why on earth this isn't possible? It should be.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

"Can't even export the ride and import the GPX into Strava".

They should began with this, basic things. I don't understand why on earth this isn't possible? It should be.

Agreed. If I try transferring the GPX to my laptop and manually uploading to Strava, it gives an error message. It seems the Flow app is missing some required details in the GPX.