Endevo or Lenuro I reckon
Article 2020 SPECIALIZED KENEVO
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
Wernher
Active member
The Specialized eBikes are wonderful bikes, but I can't live with the motors that continue to fail. I ride with a large group of guys, most on Levos and some on Kenevos. Some ride the older Levo but most are on the latest and whenever I talk to somebody they tell me that they had their motor replaced. Some of the guys had 6 motor replacements. They brag about te great service from Specialized and how the motors are replaced without issues and yet the motors keep failing.
I've got nothing against the Levo. My brother's first eBike was a Turbo Levo that he sold to a friend of mine when he emigrated. He since purchased two Meridas with Shimano Motors, myself and two friends purchased Giant Trance-E's. None of us had any issues with our bikes. Also when you read the forums, you keep on seeing people praising the Levos but at the same time you read about their failures and motor replacements. Despite claims that the issues have been sorted, we see the evidence of the motors failing all the time.
So I would really like to hear if anybody who is using one of these bikes on a frequent basis has not had a motor failure and conversely why people keep on buying a bike that keeps on failing. Even when EMBN did the race on a Levo, it had to be replaced because it died.
When I meet people on the trails and they show interest in eBikes I refer them to my Giant Dealer or one of the dealers that sell Merida or Scott, but they usually respond by telling me they are going to buy a Levo. Well good for them then. If they are prepared to suffer the inconvenience of frequent breakdowns for the love of a Levo, I'm happy. Meanwhile I am just curious what makes the Levo fanboys keep on singing the praises and buying these bikes while they keep silent on the obvious issues that come with it. If my bike has a fault or breaks down, I'm honest about it. I want people to buy a product with their eyes open, knowing what to expect. Please help me understand this phenomenon.
And just to make a point. If it was reliable, I would have bought it. The motor is very silent and the bike is beautiful and it rides lovely. I did actually consider it. I decided against it for two reasons:
1. Reliability
2. Value for money
I've got nothing against the Levo. My brother's first eBike was a Turbo Levo that he sold to a friend of mine when he emigrated. He since purchased two Meridas with Shimano Motors, myself and two friends purchased Giant Trance-E's. None of us had any issues with our bikes. Also when you read the forums, you keep on seeing people praising the Levos but at the same time you read about their failures and motor replacements. Despite claims that the issues have been sorted, we see the evidence of the motors failing all the time.
So I would really like to hear if anybody who is using one of these bikes on a frequent basis has not had a motor failure and conversely why people keep on buying a bike that keeps on failing. Even when EMBN did the race on a Levo, it had to be replaced because it died.
When I meet people on the trails and they show interest in eBikes I refer them to my Giant Dealer or one of the dealers that sell Merida or Scott, but they usually respond by telling me they are going to buy a Levo. Well good for them then. If they are prepared to suffer the inconvenience of frequent breakdowns for the love of a Levo, I'm happy. Meanwhile I am just curious what makes the Levo fanboys keep on singing the praises and buying these bikes while they keep silent on the obvious issues that come with it. If my bike has a fault or breaks down, I'm honest about it. I want people to buy a product with their eyes open, knowing what to expect. Please help me understand this phenomenon.
And just to make a point. If it was reliable, I would have bought it. The motor is very silent and the bike is beautiful and it rides lovely. I did actually consider it. I decided against it for two reasons:
1. Reliability
2. Value for money
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Except if you are riding Park, you might as well save the weight and money and have a regular DH bike, most UK trails feel unwieldy on a DH bike, let alone something as long as the new kenevo. It would be at home in pemberton/sqamish/roslyn but last I heard, they still have access issues for ebikes.
I love my kenevo and have no plans to change, but it's arguably unnecessary in most cases, a levo or decoy would probably cope with the rough OK and be more nimble on the smooth, but I really don't understand what the new kenevo is for.
I will never understand this so I beg to differ.
I think the Kenevo both new or old are the perfect bikes. They can literally be ridden anywhere! Sure they wouldn’t be the best bike in all scenarios but I know for sure that you can not comfortably ride small travel bikes on proper gravity trails.
Change my mind, I dare you.
digitalhippie
New Member
I don't have any allegiance with Specialized (company) and don't care either way which brand bikes people buy and ride. There are a lot of fun bikes out there. I do however work in a bike store where we sell many Levo along with hire fleet of ebikes across two stores - all Levo - that take a beating.
I agree for sure spec for spec the Specialized bikes don't offer the same value for money as brands you mention, Giant and Merida. That's been the case across MTB generally for a long time, nothing new.
One interesting thing I have observed interacting with riders looking at buying an ebike is that some will demo a Levo, go away and demo other brands - in our city typically Merida and Giant - and despite knowing they are paying a premium for the Levo will come back and buy it based on the riding experience it provides. Everyone has their own take on what 'value for money' means I guess.
Regarding motor reliability, our Levo customers and rental fleet have had very few problems overall, surprisingly few IMO. There have been occasional glitches, some caused by customer behaviour/misuse, some bike company. But in the scheme of things not that many.
Personally I purposely neglected my staff Levo for over 4000km, rode through a lot of snow, ice, mud, slush, tech trail to see how the bikes would deal with abuse at the hands of customers. FWIW the motor never missed a beat. It'll be interesting to see how my new 2020 staff bike goes.
TBH your post seems a little exaggerated here and there for the purposes of trying to make a point. e.g.
'whenever I talk to somebody they tell me that they had their motor replaced'
So 100% of the people you meet riding Levo have all had motor failures? Having dealt with Levo customers first hand the last couple of years along with our own rental fleet that seems a bit of a stretch to me.
For sure there is over promise, over pricing and less than perfect tech across the board in MTB, especially eMTB. Can't think of a brand that isn't guilty of those things. It's relatively early days for ebiking, things are less than perfect, but across the brands the bikes are ready enough now to be fun.
Just don't google problems with(insert any brand e.g. Giant) ebikes hey!
Cheers,
Wernher
Active member
Your comments are fair. I have a guy that's had six motor replacements. Every other guy that I talk to in our group of approximately 25 guys are telling me they had their motors replaced. Even the people I meet out on my local trails tell met that. There is one guy that runs a rental fleet of Levos and he hasn't told me of any replacements, but he is also an authorized repairer and he has replaced motors for at least two of the guys I mentioned.I don't have any allegiance with Specialized (company) and don't care either way which brand bikes people buy and ride. There are a lot of fun bikes out there. I do however work in a bike store where we sell many Levo along with hire fleet of ebikes across two stores - all Levo - that take a beating.
I agree for sure spec for spec the Specialized bikes don't offer the same value for money as brands you mention, Giant and Merida. That's been the case across MTB generally for a long time, nothing new.
One interesting thing I have observed interacting with riders looking at buying an ebike is that some will demo a Levo, go away and demo other brands - in our city typically Merida and Giant - and despite knowing they are paying a premium for the Levo will come back and buy it based on the riding experience it provides. Everyone has their own take on what 'value for money' means I guess.
Regarding motor reliability, our Levo customers and rental fleet have had very few problems overall, surprisingly few IMO. There have been occasional glitches, some caused by customer behaviour/misuse, some bike company. But in the scheme of things not that many.
Personally I purposely neglected my staff Levo for over 4000km, rode through a lot of snow, ice, mud, slush, tech trail to see how the bikes would deal with abuse at the hands of customers. FWIW the motor never missed a beat. It'll be interesting to see how my new 2020 staff bike goes.
TBH your post seems a little exaggerated here and there for the purposes of trying to make a point. e.g.
'whenever I talk to somebody they tell me that they had their motor replaced'
So 100% of the people you meet riding Levo have all had motor failures? Having dealt with Levo customers first hand the last couple of years along with our own rental fleet that seems a bit of a stretch to me.
For sure there is over promise, over pricing and less than perfect tech across the board in MTB, especially eMTB. Can't think of a brand that isn't guilty of those things. It's relatively early days for ebiking, things are less than perfect, but across the brands the bikes are ready enough now to be fun.
Just don't google problems with(insert any brand e.g. Giant) ebikes hey!
Cheers,
I remain a sceptic until proven wrong. Let's just say, I'm not convinced. When EMBN then does a race with a Levo and the motor fails, they don't have to say anything. I believe it is really a fantastic bike and I love how it rides and feel. It is light and more playful than my Giant for instance. The Merida is probably the most playful and I'd like to see the new carbon version.
Specialized need to go back and find a solution to the issues and put it to bed because as long as these stories go around it's going to eventually catch up with them.
I like that at least with their 2020 models they have now addressed some of my criticisms, ie: 34 mm forks are now 35 and 36 and finally they've got four pot brakes on the rears as well.
I believe it should be a relatively easy fix to get reliability, but until then, I'll stay away and remain astounded at its popularity.
Wernher
Active member
I also wanted to mention that we have an interesting situation in South Africa. We have a fairly limited choice with Scott, Giant and Specialized the only mainstream manufactured eBikes available here. Merida only started importing this month and the only reason we had access to the previous Merida e160's was because my brother imported two for himself at a huge cost with the restrictions on transport of batteries. The 900e with DI2 is awesome.I don't have any allegiance with Specialized (company) and don't care either way which brand bikes people buy and ride. There are a lot of fun bikes out there. I do however work in a bike store where we sell many Levo along with hire fleet of ebikes across two stores - all Levo - that take a beating.
I agree for sure spec for spec the Specialized bikes don't offer the same value for money as brands you mention, Giant and Merida. That's been the case across MTB generally for a long time, nothing new.
One interesting thing I have observed interacting with riders looking at buying an ebike is that some will demo a Levo, go away and demo other brands - in our city typically Merida and Giant - and despite knowing they are paying a premium for the Levo will come back and buy it based on the riding experience it provides. Everyone has their own take on what 'value for money' means I guess.
Regarding motor reliability, our Levo customers and rental fleet have had very few problems overall, surprisingly few IMO. There have been occasional glitches, some caused by customer behaviour/misuse, some bike company. But in the scheme of things not that many.
Personally I purposely neglected my staff Levo for over 4000km, rode through a lot of snow, ice, mud, slush, tech trail to see how the bikes would deal with abuse at the hands of customers. FWIW the motor never missed a beat. It'll be interesting to see how my new 2020 staff bike goes.
TBH your post seems a little exaggerated here and there for the purposes of trying to make a point. e.g.
'whenever I talk to somebody they tell me that they had their motor replaced'
So 100% of the people you meet riding Levo have all had motor failures? Having dealt with Levo customers first hand the last couple of years along with our own rental fleet that seems a bit of a stretch to me.
For sure there is over promise, over pricing and less than perfect tech across the board in MTB, especially eMTB. Can't think of a brand that isn't guilty of those things. It's relatively early days for ebiking, things are less than perfect, but across the brands the bikes are ready enough now to be fun.
Just don't google problems with(insert any brand e.g. Giant) ebikes hey!
Cheers,
Our bikes are also restricted to 32 km/h like in the USA and not 25 like Europe and the UK and it is just that bit better. We more natural trails and bike parks and less pump tracks and built tracks and we generally cover much greater distances on our trails than the typical UK and European riders so battery life is a hot topic here, but that is just for interest's sake and a topic for another thread and another day ?
Eduardoramundo
Well-known member
Yes, I sat on an S4 today and it felt a little bit small at 6‘2“ even though my current bike has a reach of 480 mm and the S4 is 495 mm. I will try an S5 when one is available.
Old Kenevo: Bundle of fun everywhere even the tamest trails & jumps, thanks to its small and playfull nature. I don't think travel stops a bike being playful, I think it's other aspect of the geometry that count more.
New Kenevo: I imagine with its length it's quite hard to control when doing smaller jumps and drops that require the rider to shift their weight around - the kind we have plenty of here in the UK. It's probably fine on super fast bike park jumps (A-line etc), but in the UK we don't have many of these fast trails, and in most places in the world where this bike would shine there is already a cable car, which frankly no eBike could keep up with.
It's worth bearing in mind that this is an Enduro bike. Dual crown is there for stiffness (due to weight of bike), not to make it a DH bike/eDemo - which is actually what I want! There is probably someone somewhere in the world who is super stoked that they finally have the bike they need to takle their super fast trails - lucky them!!! It would probably shine at Finale or any of the EWS tracks that don't have an uplift. Just a shame that I can't think of many places in the UK where the new Kenevo would be more fun (it would be faster for sure).
Zoot Allures
Member
Lots of reviews out there for the Expert - has anyone seen any ride reviews / had any experience of the Comp yet?
I'm interested to see if it's a bit less DH flavoured without the triple clamp, and a bit more of an allrounder (albeit with a strong downhill focus)
A Levo 'Evo' in a similar vein to the Stumpy Evo was my hope, but so far it sounds like the new Kenevo is pretty numb in most trail situations and really only comes alive when it's proper gnarly / steep.
I'm interested to see if it's a bit less DH flavoured without the triple clamp, and a bit more of an allrounder (albeit with a strong downhill focus)
A Levo 'Evo' in a similar vein to the Stumpy Evo was my hope, but so far it sounds like the new Kenevo is pretty numb in most trail situations and really only comes alive when it's proper gnarly / steep.
jcmonty
Well-known member
My mind went here too.. Given what bike manufacturers are doing these days, it would make sense. I can see a "Levo LT" or something like that. ~160mm/ 160mm - slacker HTA/ steeper STA, 29r, carbon, CREO motor, etc. Maybe downsize the current levo to 150/140 which would be pretty slick for a majority of riders and trails.
Excited to see what 2021 models are going to look like, especially with Specialized seeming to lean into their new power system architecture. Until then.. probably going to be happy with my "trail-bike" 2019 kenevo
- Thread starter
- #74
I think the next 18-24 months are going to be really interesting. Specialized would have had the 2019 model signed off years ago.. who knows what's been cooking in their Swiss lab since then.
Mcharza
E*POWAH BOSS
It's always funny to look double crown bike riding on trail. Turning radius so huge. What's the point.
Andrés Grau
Member
dochabanero
Well-known member
No sorry, it’s gonna be called Kenlevo :/
You must ride the most boring trails in the world if you can’t see the benefit of a dual crown fork.
Pretty happy with mine. 18 months and 6800km riding through a deep creek 2-3 times a month. Just a slight bit of bearing roughness when back pedaling. Got the motor replaced under warranty in under 3 days, just for shits and giggles. Probs would of done another 6800km without issue tbh.
Swissrider
Well-known member
I have a Kenevo, my wife has a Levo and i ride with two buddies with Levos. No one has had their motor replaced. The problem with making conclusions without proper statistical evidence is that it they are likely to be wrong. I believe that Levos outsell all other EMTBs by a significant margin, so failure rate might be same as everyone else but there are far more failures because there are far more bikes. Secondly, people who have bought Levos are probably quite serious and maybe more likely to post about their failures. All of these reports worried me but when I asked my LBS who sell loads of Levos, they said they have had one motor failure. I’m not defending Specialized - my bike’s Walk mode did not work from the off and the handlebar switch had to be replaced. It should not have failed and should have been noticed before it was sold.
My pet theory is that the motors are not well protected from the elements and water and muck destroys the motors, particularly in U.K. conditions, which is why here in the Alps there are fewer failures. There are thousands and thousands of Brose motors used for steering racks in cars which don’t fail so they certainly should know how to make a reliable motor.
Are all the non levos in your group still going strong? It seems typical to get through a first gen bosch motor ever 9 months, and there have been a lot of people posting about issues with shimano.
This seems less 'specialized fail lots' and more 'ebikes fail lots'.
I have seen everything fail. I have owned bikes with Brose, Shimano and Bosch.
But I would rather replace 5 Brose, Bosch or Shimano motors than own any bike with a Yamaha motor that lasted forever.
What made me say that was the fact that they are not even in the same category.
I hope so
I would love to see the Turbo Creo motor in a frame with a more Enduro like shock layout.
What category would you have each of them in?
I must say the comp seems good value for money compared to the expert. I cant see that much difference in spec apart from boxxers, battery & one group higher derailleur.
If I had paid the full price for my 2019 expert, I 'think' I may have regretted it a little & would have preferred the 2020 comp. As it is I paid £4000 & am very happy with it.
This is assuming they haven't put a lesser spec motor in it like they did with the 2019 comp/expert.
If I had paid the full price for my 2019 expert, I 'think' I may have regretted it a little & would have preferred the 2020 comp. As it is I paid £4000 & am very happy with it.
This is assuming they haven't put a lesser spec motor in it like they did with the 2019 comp/expert.
You have forgot to mention the Rockshox damper. But i think you are right, with the Comp.
A brake upgrade on the Expert, for example the Code RSC, would have been nice.
I have the Decoy pro. Great components and bike.
Yes it is. But unfortunately with the wrong motor.
- Thread starter
- #90
Well I quite like it
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