Worth going tubeless?

[Beekeeper]

For several years I’ve run tubes with Tannus armour and never had a puncture. Bike is kept outside in a metal bike shed and is exposed to wide fluctuations of temperature throughout the year. Current tyres (Nobby Nics) are perishing and tiny cracks across the surface like crazy paving. I’m assuming this is to do with the oven-like conditions in the bike shed during the summer and sub zero temps in winter.
So I bought some new tyres (Smart Sam). Thinking about trying a tubeless set up with them as I would then lose a lot of weight from not having the heavy Tannus armour or tubes.
My concerns however are..

1) the new tyres are probably not tubeless ready (Schwalbe Smart Sams, but at least my rims are.
2) Apparently sealant only lasts 6 months before it loses effectiveness
3). The wide temperature fluctuations in the bike shed could cause the sealant to dry out quickly and therefore I’ll need add more sealant / remove old sealant etc etc.

My Tannus set up is maintenance free but at a cost of some weight.

Is it really worth the hassle of going tubeless with these new tyres or should I just stick to the tubes and Tannus?

 

[Husky430]

From the Orange sealant site:
View attachment 128538

Stan's
If you are using our standard Stan’s Tire Sealant, top off your sealant every 2-7 months through your valve stem

In real life, I've found that the sealant lasts much longer than this graph shows, maybe something to do with 'Selling more product' I think, or is that just my old cynical self

 

[Montana St Alum]

The first time I took my son to Moab, to ride the whole enchilada, he flatted 4 times. And that was running pretty high pressure. I'd already been running tubeless and didn't flat at all. Come to think of it, I haven't flatted since going tubeless and that must be around 20years now.
You can use a zip-tie like a dipstick to check if your sealant has dried out. It probably has. Top it off if it's dry. If you're not having any problems running tubes, there's no need to go tubeless. Most tires worth running these days are tubeless ready. If you just have to run the Panaracer 26x2.1 Dart and Smoke, maybe not!

 

[mike_kelly]

I can't run tubes anymore because the tubeless tires fit so tight that I can't get the tires on without destroying my super light tubes .
Out of four bikes converted to tubeless by four different shops all flatted the day after and two out of the four required the shop to take them apart and do them over again. Three leak such that they have to be pumped up every ride. Not a happy camper.

 

[JP-NZ]

I can't run tubes anymore because the tubeless tires fit so tight that I can't get the tires on without destroying my super light tubes .
Out of four bikes converted to tubeless by four different shops all flatted the day after and two out of the four required the shop to take them apart and do them over again. Three leak such that they have to be pumped up every ride. Not a happy camper.

I just converted my XC bike to tubeless.

I used stans tape & sealant with conti valves. All sealed up and working fine.

Now the kicker, the rims are not tubeless (2015 Giant SXC-2) the tyres are not tubeless ready ( Schwable Hurricanes) yet it all works

 

[Binhill1]

Manage fine with tubes.

 

[VWsurfbum]

The hidden cost of tubeless is having to "refresh" the sealant in as short a time as 30-40 days. Ridiculous.

never that short a time????

 

[p3eps]

Tubeless for me, and have been for over 7 years now...

My first few bikes were Specialized, and had Roval wheels and Specialized tyres. They came "tubeless ready" in that the rims were already taped, and the valves were in amongst the documentation package.
I popped some Stans in, blew them up with a normal pump... and hey presto! I pulled a huge nail out of a tyre one day, and watched it hiss, bubble, then seal infront of my eyes over the course of about 5 seconds!!

On my last bike (also Specialized with Roval wheels), I fitted a Maxxis DHRII to the rear, and could not for the life of me get it to seat on the bead. I ended up taking it to my LBS early on a Sunday morning asking them to do it. After that, I purchased a Joe Blow Booster pump... and haven't had an issue since. I've used several Maxxis, Michelin and Specialized tyres... and it's popped them all straight on.

I have had a couple of issues with the rims leaking at the valve - but that was down to the rubber seal on the valve.

I'd hate to think how many punctures I'd have had from thorns alone if I wasn't tubeless!

 

[Bones]

I wouldn't dream of not being tubeless. The other month on hire bikes 5 of us had 23 flats in 6 days. My front tyre has about 30 thorn's in it and I've never touched it apart from checking the pressure.

 

[JStrube]

My Heckler came tubeless, a year ago, who knows how long before the tires were installed. I need to add some sealant to one tire, it bleeds off in a week or so.

 

[Tubby G]

I’ve just been setting up a tubeless tyre, double down casing, and I’ve literally been bleeding from my fingernails trying to get the bloody thing on. Well worth the pain though. Wouldn’t even contemplate running tubes.

(And I only top up the sealant about once every six months)

 

[vertrkr]

I made the mistake of not laying the wheels flat when sealing new tires.

I put on some new Michelins with 100ml of sealant and kept losing 5psi/day. After a month I finally dipped them in a tub of water to see where it was leaking. There were many air streams from the sidewalls. They were very faint, looked more like spider webs. After a few rounds of laying the wheels horizontal they are all sealed up and I only air up about once a month now.

 

[Husky430]

I can't run tubes anymore because the tubeless tires fit so tight that I can't get the tires on without destroying my super light tubes .
Out of four bikes converted to tubeless by four different shops all flatted the day after and two out of the four required the shop to take them apart and do them over again. Three leak such that they have to be pumped up every ride. Not a happy camper.

Sounds like a job that is better done yourself. Hardest thing I found was getting the rim tape on evenly, but after that, as long as you have either a compressor or one of the floor pump that are made to release a large volume of air in one go it's a relative easy job to do. Have a look at some youtube videos on how to do it.

 

[alancube]

My new Cube was fitted with Nobby Nic's and tubes, removed tubes and added sealant and would not stop leaking through the walls - looked like beads of sweat! To be fair I don't think the tyres were tubeless.
New Maxxis Minion front and rear have been great from the word go and hold pressure well after a couple of days to settle down.

 

[James_C]

you can make your own tyre booster thing with a 2 litre coke bottle, 2 valves set into the lid, and some brake bleeding tube. Attach to the tyre valve and fold the tube in half to hold the pressure in between bottle and tyre. Release when you get to 40 psi.

Did it desperation recently when a tyre wouldn't go up. Info I got from a youtube video.

 

[mcboab]

I've been tubeless for about a decade . I 1st started with ghetto method using non-tubeless rims/tyres and rolls of gaffer/gorilla tape (messy). These days its a lot easier until you stub your toe /thumbs on a rim/tyre combo that refuses to mount due to the tolerances all being in the wrong alignment (too tight). I recently punctured a rim bed (with a motorbike tyre lever, plastic park levers were snapping) as I had a tyre that refused to mount on that particular rim. That rim was swapped out with an old spare from a wheel with a trashed hub and it mounted (not easy -used park steel levers) . But I still wouldn't revert to tubed except maybe to try to stretch new tyres /bed a new rim strip in and then convert to tubeless at 1st available opportunity

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Innertubes-
Tube - £4.99
Pump - £25(track) £15(trail)
Repair kit - £1.99
Repair/fitting difficulty level (out of 10) 1

Total - £47

----------
Tubeless* -
Sealant - £20
Pump - £45(track) £20 Co2 (trail)
Repair kit - £50
Valves - £20
Crush core -£135
* innertube needs to be carried also.
Repair/fitting difficulty level(out of 10) 34

Total - £295+

 

[Bones]

Innertubes-
Tube - £4.99
Pump - £25(track) £15(trail)
Repair kit - £1.99
Repair/fitting difficulty level (out of 10) 1

Total - £47

----------
Tubeless* -
Sealant - £20
Pump - £45(track) £20 Co2 (trail)
Repair kit - £50
Valves - £20
Crush core -£135
* innertube needs to be carried also.
Repair/fitting difficulty level(out of 10) 34

Total - £295+

Yes but once they are done you don't have to mess about with them

 

[Paulquattro]

I run tubes with sealant inside

 

[Humanbeersponge]

Been running tubeless since 2014, both tyres, tape, valves and sealants have improved since then. Making sure you know what you are doing, centring the rim bead into the middle of the rim to ensure you have the slack to get the other bead on the rim is paramount or you will have a mare.

I have found in the last few years with a bit of soapy water on the beads I can get them inflated and seated with a track pump or use you could use Co2 if you dont have access to a compressor. For me adding the sealant through the valve works best using a syringe.

Even my roadie is tubeless and I manage to run 25c tyres at 65psi and i`m 220lbs.

 

[rzr]

Innertubes-
Tube - £4.99
Pump - £25(track) £15(trail)
Repair kit - £1.99
Repair/fitting difficulty level (out of 10) 1

Total - £47

----------
Tubeless* -
Sealant - £20
Pump - £45(track) £20 Co2 (trail)
Repair kit - £50
Valves - £20
Crush core -£135
* innertube needs to be carried also.
Repair/fitting difficulty level(out of 10) 34

Total - £295+

not sure what's that cushcore, you can have a decent insert for 50 eur. sealant - 20 eur is for 6-12 months,
repair kit 50? what's that ?
track pump - exactly the same as for any other bike.

also You could change your e-bike to analog bike - waaaayyyy cheaper

 

[p3eps]

not sure what's that cushcore, you can have a decent insert for 50 eur. sealant - 20 eur is for 6-12 months,
repair kit 50? what's that ?
track pump - exactly the same as for any other bike.

also You could change your e-bike to analog bike - waaaayyyy cheaper

I don't have cushcore in mine or any insert at all... so a saving there.

Most of my tyres seated with a normal track pump, but in the end I needed to purchase a booster pump - so I'm assuming that's where the different track pump came from?
Getting a decent booster pump for £45 is good going though! I think my JoeBlow Booster was over £100.

29" wheels use approx 120ml of sealant each, so a 500ml bottle at £15 is going to do around 4 tyres... or 2 tyres and several top ups.

Most bikes now come "tubeless ready", which means they'll have valves with them and the rims pre-taped. If you're carrying an inner tube about with you for emergencies, you don't need to buy one... just use the one you took out of the tyre to make it tubeless!! Another saving!

For me to do my first few bikes (Specialized tyres on Roval rims) the cost was only £15 for a bottle of sealant. Rims were already taped, and I got valves with it. Those tyres seated on the rim with a regular pump.
The whole process took about 20 mins... remove 1 side of the tyre, pull out the tube, put the valve in, put 90% of the tyre on, pour sealant in, put the last part of the tyre on, and inflate! Most valves nowadays have removable cores so you can seat the tyre first, and then pour the sealant in through the valve.

Easy as pie!!

 

[Montana St Alum]

Innertubes-
Tube - £4.99
Pump - £25(track) £15(trail)
Repair kit - £1.99
Repair/fitting difficulty level (out of 10) 1

Total - £47

----------
Tubeless* -
Sealant - £20
Pump - £45(track) £20 Co2 (trail)
Repair kit - £50
Valves - £20
Crush core -£135
* innertube needs to be carried also.
Repair/fitting difficulty level(out of 10) 34

Total - £295+

I have money.
It's TIME I'm running short on.
Every minute on the trail that I'm waiting for someone to swap a tube is a minute I'll never get back.
Every minute riding a trail is a minute I also won't get back.
The difference is, I don't want THAT minute back!

 

[shep]

All this junk , inserts and sealant etc etc .
I'll stay with tubes and tyres as it's cheaper and most likely lighter ....
Tubeless is about as much use to me as a male prostitue.

 

[Mario Antony]

Being doing MTB for several decades, and I think I've tried everything on the market (tubes/tubless w/w-o insert/Procore).

Every system has it's PRO & CON.
For each rider, there is a better/proper solution, but I would not say that one system is the Best

Also, front & rear tires have different requirements, and the ideal system can change according to personall preferences, Bike type and terrain.

Saying that, I'll try to place the PRO and CONs I found on which system.
For PRO will use the "+" sign, and CON will use the "-" sign.

TUBES

+ Cost effective;
+ Can be fixed using patchs (you can skip carrying spare tube);
+ There are all sort of tubes (plastic like Tubolito), normal, reinforced, latex, with or without anti-puncture liquid;
+ It gives some support to the tire, this depends on the tube you're using;
+ Easy to mount/dismount tires, without any mess.

- Weight: and this depends a lot on the type of tubes and if you use with liquid or not;
- Puncture due prenetraction and pintch flat - low resistence.
- Use of slightly higher pressures that other systems


TUBLESS
+ Lower weight;
+ Pintch and penetration flat prevension;
+ Permits some pressure variartions, but it has low pressure limits

- Needs proper tires (sealed and non pourus! Preferably UST or TR tires);
- Can be a PITA to inflate on the trail - depends deeply on the tire & pump;
- You will ALWAYS carry an extra-tube on longer rides, for peace of mind;
- You'll make a mess changing tires, or remove the "emergency tube" that you installed on the trail after a puncture;
- If yoi smach the wheel, and dent really bad the rim, you'll need that spare tube I've spoke about;
- It has some lower pressure limits. You can't go low on tire pressure, since you'll notice some flex on tire sidewall;

TUBLESS + INSERTS (all has above plus or except):
+ Rim protection;
+ Can give the tire some side wall estability.

- Weight;
- Complete mess to change tires;
- Real PITA to do some work on the trail (if you need to put a tube!).

PROCORE
This system has not gained any support from the market. - unfortunately!
The system is basically a sum of all the above, and for some, a uttlerly useless peace of s****!
I've used this system, and due to the PRO it gives, I'm a completly fanboy.
I'll try to do as above, not being BIAS.

PRO
+ It can be run with the lowes pressures. I've used 9psi on the rear, on single ply tires (I weight around 85kg full kitted). This is such an advantage on really dump and squichy terrain, and you'll find grip as it would be impossible. I tried 42a tires, with this system, and could do 45° runs into wet muddy roots, without any slippage (it is really, really good finding grip!);
+ Real protection on Rim @ Tire. Since you are using a inner tire+tube inflated to plus 70psi, this will take care of any square edge/sharp obstacles.
Never had a flat or rim dented using this system!
+ Support of the side wall. Better than the insert, and this can be adjusted using the inner pressure;
+ If you are a Bike Geek, you'll love setup and keep track of another price pressure! (You'll have 4 in total).

- Cost. It's expensive, and it's hard to find parts of the system;
- Forget about repairing it on the trail without proper tire levers
- It makes a complete mess, since you will use liquid for the outer tire;
- It requires some maintenance/cleaning of Inner tube stem, otherwise it can be clogged with liquid, and you'll have to replace it;
- Weight;
- Complexity;

---------
REQUIREMENTS
---------

This is more a personall opinion, so take this with a grain of salt.

My front wheels have a easier life tha my rear wheels (I don't recall smaching a front rim in 35years riding mtb! Rear rims... lol! Too much rims bent/dang/broken to remember).
I usually use de 10% rule with tire pressures, and usually set my tires based on how the rear tire feels.
On the wet, I will use less pressure (around 25psi) than on dry (Around 28psi).

I tend to have a light setup upfront (tubless, TR) and some kind of reinforced or double ply rear tire with or without inserts (this will depend on pressures and terrain).

My setups:
Enduro bike (all coil suspension): Tubless upfront+Procore rear
Trail bike (all air suspension): Tubless both sides, no insert
Ebike (all air suspension): Tubless + Reinforced Tube (I've smached the rear rim... and is leaking!). If I find a Procore kit, I'll install at the rear, no question about!
On all, I carry 1 extra tube.

Roadbike: Tubes, and only carry patchs and a pump!

So that's it!

 

[mtb-steve]

Innertubes-
Tube - £4.99
Pump - £25(track) £15(trail)
Repair kit - £1.99
Repair/fitting difficulty level (out of 10) 1

Total - £47

----------
Tubeless* -
Sealant - £20
Pump - £45(track) £20 Co2 (trail)
Repair kit - £50
Valves - £20
Crush core -£135
* innertube needs to be carried also.
Repair/fitting difficulty level(out of 10) 34

Total - £295+

Wow, I don't know where you're getting your prices from, but it's so far out it's laughable.
Pump, I use the same pump for tubed or tubeless and it's a normal track pump, my on bike pump is a normal pump too. I don't bother with Co2.
Yes sealant is reasonably expensive, but it's sealed numerous punctures in my tyres that would have resulted in a new tube as I don't trust patches to last longer than the trip home. I know I'm ahead cost wise using tubeless and sealant just on tubes saved.
Valves have been in the wheels for 3 years since converting to tubeless, same with the tape.
If I was using tubes I'd still carry a spare tube, so no change there, I've never used the tube in 6000 miles of trail riding though and once counted over 16 thorns in my front tyre when I took it off. Every time I take a tyre off I find a minimum of 5-6 thorns and not once had I noticed or had to stop and repair a puncture because of them.
I have had to repair slits and pinch punctures with worms though, and I've managed to pull out a worm while riding once, but again I've never paid £50 for them.
I also don't run any insert.
There's so much false information about tubeless I'm surprised we aren't using square wheels.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Wow, I don't know where you're getting your prices from, but it's so far out it's laughable.
Pump, I use the same pump for tubed or tubeless and it's a normal track pump, my on bike pump is a normal pump too. I don't bother with Co2.
Yes sealant is reasonably expensive, but it's sealed numerous punctures in my tyres that would have resulted in a new tube as I don't trust patches to last longer than the trip home. I know I'm ahead cost wise using tubeless and sealant just on tubes saved.
Valves have been in the wheels for 3 years since converting to tubeless, same with the tape.
If I was using tubes I'd still carry a spare tube, so no change there, I've never used the tube in 6000 miles of trail riding though and once counted over 16 thorns in my front tyre when I took it off. Every time I take a tyre off I find a minimum of 5-6 thorns and not once had I noticed or had to stop and repair a puncture because of them.
I have had to repair slits and pinch punctures with worms though, and I've managed to pull out a worm while riding once, but again I've never paid £50 for them.
I also don't run any insert.
There's so much false information about tubeless I'm surprised we aren't using square wheels.

Then why dont you give us a run down on prices then, rather than attacking a poster for having a bit of humour. I got all the prices from googling the item. Maybe you should get on to google, im sure they'd be relieved to know you are on hand to correct them

Start with the pump. There are hundreds of posts pertaining to the need for a pump that supplies a large blast of air that it appears is needed to quickly inflate a tyre. In fact thats the primary reason such a thing was invented.
You dont need one well fine and dandy. Clearly though others do.

 

[Montana St Alum]

Time on the trail is valuable. Go tubeless. Get a job if you must. Party like it's 1999!

 

[JP-NZ]

Innertubes-
Tube - £4.99
Pump - £25(track) £15(trail)
Repair kit - £1.99
Repair/fitting difficulty level (out of 10) 1

Total - £47

----------
Tubeless* -
Sealant - £20
Pump - £45(track) £20 Co2 (trail)
Repair kit - £50


Total - £295+

Sealant = £10.99 - enough to do 2 x 29" wheels for a year. 125ml Joe's No Flats Eco Sealant | Westbrook Cycles
Pump = £20 Co2 (if your going to buy a co2 inflator for the trail it saves money to use it at home)
Repair kit = £16.99 - Joe's No Flats Tubeless Repair Kit | Westbrook Cycles

I'm sure you could get any of the above cheaper too, westbrook was the first UK result from down here in NZ

Valves come in tubeless rims and are only ever a one off cost.

The length of time it takes to remove a tube, patch it up and hope it holds....

 

[Montana St Alum]

The length of time it takes to remove a tube, patch it up and hope it holds....

But no one has EVER fixed a tube only to have it leak again once it's pumped up.
Have they?

 

[JP-NZ]

But no one has EVER fixed a tube only to have it leak again once it's pumped up.
Have they?

Haha I don't use tubes so I cannot possibly say