Will going faster make it easier?

[True romance]

Hi all, recently got my emtb and have hit a few trails with my brother. Now we're both very new to emtb and trails plus are on the more mature side so not planning on doing anything extreme. So we're starting slow on some mixed trails that most would class as very mild I'd guess. However last weekend we went to Hopton woods and quite frankly it scared the shit out of us. Only did a very small section and bottled it. Now discussing things later and watching other riders got me thinking maybe we're just to slow? Does speed increase stability? We are literally just plodding around and I feel an increase in speed would possibly make things a little easier to tackle? Or am I just talking rubbish? Loving this new adventure but after last weekend think we're possibly out of our depth?

Cheers,
TR.

 

[Kaelidoz]

Yes speed is important. Get out of the saddle, let your body absorbs impacts (elbows, knees). Learn to lift the front wheel even just for a short bit so you can clear obstacles.

How slow were you going? What kind of features scared you?

 

[CBSTD]

Speed is you friend (sometimes) wheels naturally want to roll the faster they go the straighter and more stable they become think of your wheels a gyroscopes it only when you introduce other forces that it gets dodgy, build slowly the biggest upgrade you can do to your bike is go get some coaching I can highly recommend Dirt School taught this old dog a few thing

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Hi all, recently got my emtb and have hit a few trails with my brother. Now we're both very new to emtb and trails plus are on the more mature side so not planning on doing anything extreme. So we're starting slow on some mixed trails that most would class as very mild I'd guess. However last weekend we went to Hopton woods and quite frankly it scared the shit out of us. Only did a very small section and bottled it. Now discussing things later and watching other riders got me thinking maybe we're just to slow? Does speed increase stability? We are literally just plodding around and I feel an increase in speed would possibly make things a little easier to tackle? Or am I just talking rubbish? Loving this new adventure but after last weekend think we're possibly out of our depth?

Cheers,
TR.

Speed is only your friend IF you have the ability (and familiarity) to know what to expect from it. Speed without appropriate skills alongside it is not going to save a bad situation.

You definitely need to upskill before you tackle difficult terrain. Most mountain bike trails/tracks are graded... similar to snow skiing levels of difficulty. Grade 1 easiest all the way up to Grade 4-5 expert... then there's single black diamond and double black diamond.

The key to enjoying MTBiking is to stay within trails according to your skill level and as your ability increases - make your way up progressively. But it's up to you of course where to draw the line, as you don't have to keep climbing up the ladder if you don't want to. I'm actually on my way down it. Because of heart issues and now that I'm on blood-thinner/anti-coagulant medication, I've made the conscious decision to limit my rides to Grade 2 trails.

One good way to train is to learn basic skills on a parking lot at first. There are many tutorial videos on YouTube to choose from, like this one below.


From there, progress to training exercises that are done first on a flat off-road patch... then over various inclines both going up and down. You will need some level of familiarity on how your tyre treads behave... at what point they lose traction while not losing control. Also learn to brake with just your supple index finger over the levers, with the rest clasped around the bar grips. Find a good video that explains the subtleties of braking, as this is vital but often neglected.

All the best!
.

 

[Philpug]

Not necessarily speed, but momentum is key.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

@True romance Here is a really good second set of beginner exercises from "Skills With Phil"

 

[True romance]

Thanks guys, all advice appreciated. Guess steep declines and very gnarly terrain are the biggest obstacles. At the age where we can't afford any major injuries and also not going to bounce back up like in our youth so this fear is holding us back. I feel a lot more confident going up hill as not got to worry so much about speed on steeper down hill sections. Trying to find somewhere we can build confidence that has flat smooth flowing trails to practice on.

 

[Beekeeper]

Speed is only your friend IF you have the ability (and familiarity) to know what to expect from it. Speed without appropriate skills alongside it is not going to save a bad situation.

You definitely need to upskill before you tackle difficult terrain. Most mountain bike trails/tracks are graded... similar to snow skiing levels of difficulty. Grade 1 easiest all the way up to Grade 4-5 expert... then there's single black diamond and double black diamond.

The key to enjoying MTBiking is to stay within trails according to your skill level and as your ability increases - make your way up progressively. But it's up to you of course where to draw the line, as you don't have to keep climbing up the ladder if you don't want to. I'm actually on my way down it. Because of heart issues and now that I'm on blood-thinner/anti-coagulant medication, I've made the conscious decision to limit my rides to Grade 2 trails.

One good way to train is to learn basic skills on a parking lot at first. There are many tutorial videos on YouTube to choose from, like this one below.


From there, progress to training exercises that are done first on a flat off-road patch... then over various inclines both going up and down. You will need some level of familiarity on how your tyre treads behave... at what point they lose traction while not losing control. Also learn to brake with just your supple index finger over the levers, with the rest clasped around the bar grips. Find a good video that explains the subtleties of braking, as this is vital but often neglected.

All the best!
.

I watched the video. Interesting. i can lift front wheel over an object easily but how do I also lift the back wheel on a hard tail over the same object?

 

[Zimmerframe]

i can lift front wheel over an object easily

What about when it's on the bike ?

 

[R120]

The first major thing to get you head round in mountain biking, is that any decent modern MTB is a very capable machine, and you can trust it to do what its designed to do. When you look at terrain and tracks for the first time, just remember the bike is designed to have your back and get you down them. Then you need to learn how to let it do that, and how good technique lets the bike do its thing, and puts you in control of the situation.

I cant recommend a skills lesson or session enough, I would find out who the best local instructors etc are in your area na book in some lessons. The couple of hundred quid you might spend on a few sessions will be a bigger improvement than any fancy upgrade to your bike.

 

[Jackware]

What about when it's on the bike ?

As soon as I saw the title and that you'd responded I was scrolling down for your latest innuendo but that was very restrained for you

 

[Zimmerframe]

I don't know what you mean ...

I like to give people chance to relax into a false sense of security once in a while .. That's why I have "Watered Down Wednesdays" ...

 

[Jackware]

I don't know what you mean ...

I like to give people chance to relax into a false sense of security once in a while .. That's why I have "Watered Down Wednesdays" ...

A bit early for a dram isn't it?

 

[Jackware]

Hi all, recently got my emtb and have hit a few trails with my brother. Now we're both very new to emtb and trails plus are on the more mature side so not planning on doing anything extreme. So we're starting slow on some mixed trails that most would class as very mild I'd guess. However last weekend we went to Hopton woods and quite frankly it scared the shit out of us. Only did a very small section and bottled it. Now discussing things later and watching other riders got me thinking maybe we're just to slow? Does speed increase stability? We are literally just plodding around and I feel an increase in speed would possibly make things a little easier to tackle? Or am I just talking rubbish? Loving this new adventure but after last weekend think we're possibly out of our depth?

Cheers,
TR.

I think it's a combination of factors at play here

- Improved fitness helps increase your speed potential - improves with more riding
- Confidence in your ability to control the bike and the bike's ability - improves with more riding
- Other riders in Hopton may well be regulars who know the lines and routes

TL- DR

Keep riding and enjoying it. (And speed isn't everything IMO)

 

[Zimmerframe]

A bit early for a dram isn't it?

The World Clock — Worldwide

World time and date for cities in all time zones. International time right now. Takes into account all DST clock changes.

www.timeanddate.com

We live in a connected world .. it's always the right time somewhere and my PC is a window to the world ..

 

[Zimmerframe]

I found my learning curve/confidence growth at the start was slower than I would have liked. This was mainly because of practising on hills - seemingly the obvious place to practice.

In reality, once I found a nice 20km flat circuit, this was much better.

The problem with hills at the start, is gravity. Gravity makes you accelerate.

Accelerating makes you want to go slower, which you do by braking. Braking means you probably actually end up going slower than you should and the bikes dynamics are all thrown out because you're on the brakes. So your body weight is wrong, the suspension is pre-loaded at the front, your arms are tensed .

Finding somewhere flat to learn means that you control the speed, it's not being forced upon you when you're not ready for it - you're not being pushed into every feature. You end up going way faster than you would on the descents, because you're not trying to counter acceleration. This way you learn to develop more technique and confidence in yourself and the bike. It gives you time to adapt to how the bike responds to features at ever higher speeds so when you then ride a descent, you're more accustomed to travelling at a higher speed, therefore don't need to brake and have more control/trust of the bike.

 

[Levo-Lon]

Best thing about going faster is you crash past the bit that caused you to panic?

It takes a good while to learn mtb, so do what feels best for you at any given obstacle.
Getting off and walking is better than needing an air ambulance.

Just be aware of faster riders and stay safe ..
You'll fall off but hopefully just little bumps and mishaps.

Enjoy learning your new hobby ,you'll get better and love it more and more.

 

[paquo]

Trying to find somewhere we can build confidence that has flat smooth flowing trails to practice on.

That's the beauty of the emtb, you can find places much easier than with the regular bike

 

[True romance]

All great advice and is very much appreciated. If anyone can recommend somewhere good for beginners around the west Midlands in the UK that would be very helpful. Don't seem to have many dedicated bike parks near by?

 

[True romance]

This was us the other week at a local trail which was relatively flat with no major obstacles but as you can see we where still taking it steady.

 

[Nicho]

Hi all, recently got my emtb and have hit a few trails with my brother. Now we're both very new to emtb and trails plus are on the more mature side so not planning on doing anything extreme. So we're starting slow on some mixed trails that most would class as very mild I'd guess. However last weekend we went to Hopton woods and quite frankly it scared the shit out of us. Only did a very small section and bottled it. Now discussing things later and watching other riders got me thinking maybe we're just to slow? Does speed increase stability? We are literally just plodding around and I feel an increase in speed would possibly make things a little easier to tackle? Or am I just talking rubbish? Loving this new adventure but after last weekend think we're possibly out of our depth?

Cheers,
TR.

You might find that wearing some protection such as knee/leg and arm/elbow pads (and even a full set of body armour) might give you more confidence on difficult bits, and also reduce the risk of injury to some degree if you do get it wrong.

 

[True romance]

You might find that wearing some protection such as knee/leg and arm/elbow pads (and even a full set of body armour) might give you more confidence on difficult bits, and also reduce the risk of injury to some degree if you do get it wrong.

Lol, don't worry got knee and elbow protection.

 

[Kaelidoz]

I watched the video. Interesting. i can lift front wheel over an object easily but how do I also lift the back wheel on a hard tail over the same object?

You need to learn to manual. It's your body weight going low and to the back tire (like a ⨼ ) THEN quickly shifting it higher and to the front of the bike ( ⟋ )

Look that quick bunny hop Neil's doing.
Youtube timestamp


You can also pop both wheels off the ground at the same time, but it'll never go as high as a true bunny hop. It's also difficult to time it right, and it drains too much energy compared to properly shifting your body weight around.

In the meantime you can take it slow: If you're going over a curb/step you can lift the front wheel, let it touch the ground after clearing the curb then use your front brake as you shift a bit of your weight to the front of the bike. The back wheel will clear the obstacle. It's a bit easier.

Your bike is more than capable. It's not a matter of suspension. The weight and battery placement is more problematic if you're learning but not insurmountable.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Your bike (I'm assuming its a reasonably good one) will take you down some chutes & drops you wouldn't believe possible. The limiting factor in my riding is my awareness that as speed increases my reaction time lessens. I think you will know by now how coordinated & reactive you are, so ride for now within your comfort zone but stretch it out ride by ride.

 

[R120]

All great advice and is very much appreciated. If anyone can recommend somewhere good for beginners around the west Midlands in the UK that would be very helpful. Don't seem to have many dedicated bike parks near by?

@All Mountain Coaching is a member on here, and one of the top coaches in the UK:

All Mountain Coaching | Mountain bike skills courses on Cannock Chase

We offer mountain bike training run by dedicated expert coaches. Based on Cannock Chase in the Midlands, our skills courses will help you improve to ride faster, safer and with total confidence.

www.allmountaincoaching.co.uk

 

[Zimmerframe]

This was us the other week at a local trail which was relatively flat with no major obstacles but as you can see we where still taking it steady.

Nice ride out.

I think all your missing is time and experience. I've tried rushing things at times, but it doesn't make it you quicker - quicker ! . It just makes you fall off more frequently, which has the opposite effect on confidence which you're trying to build.

Whilst you're trying to advance, don't avoid things. Like leaving the car park at the start, you should have forced yourself to ride through the chicane to practice balance and looking ahead. You generally swerve around small roots on the trail, you probably want to ride over these to get used to how the bike reacts and to prove to yourself that you can.

You're also riding trails you don't know, this is always harder, you don't know what's coming so you're always on the look out and reacting to what appears, it doesn't give you the opportunity to practice your technique at this point because you're too focused on just working out where to go. Every root, bump,drop will seem 10 times bigger than it really is.

Remember to look ahead on bends too. Always look where you want to go, not where you're worried you'll go/hit/crash/fall. This makes a huge difference to going round any corner.

 

[Mcharza]

Remember..the speed corrects the error.

 

[steve_sordy]

In the UK, the easy trails are not numbered but graded by colour. Green trails (small children), then blue trails (beginners and upwards), then red trails (intermediate and upwards), then black (skilled and upwards) there are others but avoid those for the time being.
To make it harder to interpret, each colour has a spectrum, ie they may be easy or all the way up to almost the next colour. how to grade trails has been a discussion topic for years.

The best advice I can give at this stage is to make sure the bike is set up properly for you. This will give you confidence. Thinking about my own MTB journey, I would rate these three as important.

MTB fit. Get the bike properly set up for you. This is from GMBN

Then I'd get the tyre pressures right, too hard is a common mistake because most people new to mtb have ridden bikes on tarmac where the harder the tyre the better. This is very good from PinkBike's tech Tuesday series.

Tech Tuesday - Find Your Tire Pressure Sweet Spot - Pinkbike

www.pinkbike.com

Then you need to be sure that the suspension is set up properly. The guide below by Bike Rumour is very good and takes you from basic set up right up to suspension tuning. Just read the bits you need and store the rest.

Bikerumor Suspension Setup Series: Full Series PDF - Free Download!

Last week, we wrapped up our six-part suspension setup series. But, we realize it’s not always practical to hunt down the particular session you need,…

bikerumor.com

Having that lot correct will improve your ride considerably. If you are still struggling (or even if you are not), then I would book some MTB skills courses. But unless you have someone to show you the basics, you are going to have to rely upon videos until the lockdown ends. Let YouTube be your friend.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I watched the video. Interesting. i can lift front wheel over an object easily but how do I also lift the back wheel on a hard tail over the same object?

There are various ways to self-teach to lift the back wheel on its own. I don’t know where you’re currently at, so best to start at learning how to - NOT getting wrong-footed with platform pedals (not clipped-in)... so wearing shin guards is a must.

STEP 1:
While standing (butt off the saddle) with your preferred foot forward at 3 o’clock, the other at 9 o’clock, simultaneously lift both feet OFF both pedals, and land it back at the same time. Just an inch or two will do to begin with. You get your timing wrong, or if you misplace one foot - you’ll slam a pedal against one shin. Once you get the gist, lift both feet off progressively higher then back down on both pedals again. Support some of your weight onto the handlebars when you practice this... either slow coasting or stationary (while leaning your front wheel against a curb or a wall) -or get a friend to stand facing you while holding your handlebars to support your balance. Once familiar, learn to do this without looking at your feet. Look forward... your feet should know by instinct where your pedals are. By now, you should know ’by feel’ and instinct; a) where and at what point your feet leaves the pedals, and b) how to land back on them simultaneously - confident that you won’t get wrong-footed and end up slamming your pedal pins onto your shins, or c) how to bailout sensing beforehand that you’ve messed-up the timing completely. Learning this is an important prerequisite for lifting just the rear wheel - or jumping, or bunny hopping later on.

STEP 2:
Now you can start teaching yourself to lift the rear wheel. This works for BMX, hardtails, or FS mountain bikes. From the same 3 & 9 o’clock standing posture, pretend you’re on a pogo-stick. Then press down on your pedals (to compress the rear tyre) then de-weight your feet from your pedals - WITHOUT leaving them behind. Think of the tyre as a mini spring that will bounce your rear end upwards by a little bit - maybe an inch or two is fine at the start. This is all about timing and about rhythm. If you de-weight your feet too much you’ll end up with a gap between your soles and pedals. If you don’t de-weight enough, your feet will hinder the upward ‘bounce’ of your back wheel. This bounce should pivot from the bottom of your front tyre.

STEP 3:
Now you’re gonna combine Step 2 followed immediately by shifting your upper body weight forward and partially support it by leaning onto your handlebars - like a half-hearted ENDO. The forward inertia shift will lift your rear wheel higher - provided your foot timing is spot on to allow it. The Skills with Phil video shows him pointing his toes down to kinda hook and lift the pedals with slight back pressure, but you actually don’t need to do this if your foot rhythm is perfect. Once you can deliberately lift the rear progressively higher with the front wheel supported against a curb, wall, or friend... then try doing it while coasting - at first with a slight front brake tap, the later on without front braking.

Btw, bunny hopping is combining an aggressive front wheel lift followed immediately by a rear wheel bounce. When BMX street kids were teaching me bunny hopping (40+ years ago), I was adamant that they’ve got glue or magnets on their pedals. They don’t. It’s about rhythm, body language, and timing all working in unison. Those kids were easily hopping over each other’s front wheels - a couple of them can clear BMX handlebar height. Best I can do is about a foot high from flat - on a good day.

Have fun!
.

 

[Beekeeper]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Really helpful and I will try out different things. I just saw a rather steep face to a local hill and wanted to see what the bike was capable of as never really tested its extreme hill climbing ability. Also have a 46t ring on the back and was interested to know what I can do with it ??

I think this video inspired me ?