What's the definitive info on the e*13 cranks with EP8?

[Longfellow78]

I've heard various things about the E*13 cranks and problems with the EP8.

But lots of threads and it's confusing. Please can someone in one post sum up the summary information for the noobs. Is there anything to add to below as is my understanding correct? Thanks.

1) As far as I read - there was a problem with the Carbon cranks falling off the top spec carbon bikes, which were replaced by Shimano with alloy cranks which was "supposed" to fix it.

2) Then there is a problem with the motor axle snapping because the pinch bolts were mounted the same side as a little hole in the motor axle, compressing and cracking it - the fix being to ensure that the motor hole is the opposite side to the pinch bolt, and that the pinch bolt is correctly torqued (don't know the torque amount) that the preload cap is correctly torqued (don't know the amount) and that blue threadlock is placed on the preload cap

3) That alloy cranks are falling off due to again incorrect torque and lack of threadlock as above.

Did I also read something about removing a rubber seal? Or was that to fit XT replacement cranks?

The root cause of this is that the cranks are not certified as compatible with shimano and that they are microscopically the wrong size, and if not tight enough they "walk" off the axle and cause all the above problems.

Any corrections or comments much appreciated, thanks.

 

[benzy]

You have everything right from my understanding. Adding some bits:

1. Add thread lock to both the preload cap and bolts
2. e13 torque spec: preload cap: 2 nm (or 3-4?) pinch bolts 14 nm. Install w/o the rubber seal (both e13 and Shimano)
3. Start with the motor side pinch bolt first
4. If replacing, shimano FC-M8150, EM900 and EM600 seem to fit. FC-M8050 do not.
5. Orbea is satisfied with e13 alloy cranks, believes the TSB fixed the issue, and is not replacing them at present

edit: e13 TSB: https://support.ethirteen.com/hc/en-us/articles/360058908731-Shimano-alloy-E-spec-Crank-Manual-

 

[Longfellow78]

You have everything right from my understanding. Adding some bits:

1. Add thread lock to both the preload cap and bolts
2. e13 torque spec: preload cap: 3-4 nm, pinch bolts 14 nm. Install w/o the rubber seal (both e13 and Shimano)
3. Start with the motor side pinch bolt first
4. If replacing, shimano FC-M8150, EM900 and EM600 seem to fit. FC-M8050 do not.
5. Orbea is satisfied with e13 alloy cranks, believes the TSB fixed the issue, and is not replacing them at present

Thanks that's great! Looks like that's everything then.

 

[Shjay]

There are soo many threads on this! I called out E-13 asking if cranks were same on E8000 & EP8, they use same cranks the difference is you need to use their rubber seal on the EP8. Shimano make two difference cranks, E8000 cranks Will Not fit EP8!
If using E-13 you DO need to use the rubber seal this is documented by E-13
The Shimano crank you do not use the rubber seal.

 

[benzy]

There are soo many threads on this! I called out E-13 asking if cranks were same on E8000 & EP8, they use same cranks the difference is you need to use their rubber seal on the EP8. Shimano make two difference cranks, E8000 cranks Will Not fit EP8!
If using E-13 you DO need to use the rubber seal this is documented by E-13
The Shimano crank you do not use the rubber seal.

It's confusing, but this appears to be the latest from e13:

• Inner seal removal:
  • The seal found at the inner face of the crank should be removed from the assembly. This avoids potential false torque readings and provides an additional 1mm of interface between the crank and spindle.
  • Note: Removing inner seal must be done in conjunction with using the e*thirteen preload cap. Using non-e*thirteen preload caps may result in the cap bottoming out on the spindle before preloading the crank.

TSB #156 - e*spec Shimano™ alloy crank tech update

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN #156.2 e*spec Shimano™ alloy crank tech update Product(s) included: e*thirteen e*spec Shimano EP8 alloy cranks. Abstract e*spec Shimano EP8/EP800 alloy cranks were dev...

support.ethirteen.com

 

[Shjay]

Shimano™️ alloy E*spec Crank Manual

support.ethirteen.com

I am talking about the crank chainring seal that is required on E-13 but not Shimano cranks, that rubber seal you pictured doesn’t even come on the later E-13 cranks

 

[benzy]

Shimano™️ alloy E*spec Crank Manual

support.ethirteen.com

I am talking about the crank chainring seal that is required on E-13 but not Shimano cranks, that rubber seal you pictured doesn’t even come on the later E-13 cranks

Ah, got it. They really should have called that part a spacer. Even dumber, e13 doesn't even mention that part in the TSB. No wonder everyone is dropping these cranks and just going with Shimano.

 

[Bigkatoomer]

I've had an E13 crank come off my last Rise (despite being re-torqued and threadlocked) once. Luckily, it was low speed.

I too have read a lot of threads on this subject and have grown weary of the topic, and there's only one way for me to move on.

I've just ordered some EM900 cranks from ebay. Availability is scarce though. Now I can mentally move on!


My reasons from what I've read are:
I believe the failure rate of losing a crank is higher with a e13 crank. This could lead to a nasty accident, and will likely damage the cranks, and possibly damage the motor shaft splines.
I believe the e13 design puts additional pressure around the drilled hole, that shimano cranks less so. For E13, This might be leading to a higher chance of hairline fractures, which can write off the motor.

I'm happy to leave the legalities, semantics, commercial contract compromises, and business viabilities of a recall to Orbea, Shimano and E13. And I believe E13 to have done all they can to get to the bottom of this issue and their customer care values are high, but for me, the confidence in an E13 crank is less than the confidence I'd have with a Shimano crank.

This is my second Rise, I've got it absolutely sorted, and intend to keep it well out of warranty, therefore it seems a small price to pay in the scheme of things to ensure I'm not facing a pricey repair/replacement and not having a broken bike ruin my MTB Alps trip or BPW weekend.

 

[Richridesmtb]

I've gone with 8150 cranks just to avoid any further issues. My non-driveside e13 crank came off despite being installed from factory as per the updated recommendations. Fortunately low speed also so no injury.

Personally I feel like it is best to avoid the e13s.

 

[Singletrackmind]

You have everything right from my understanding. Adding some bits:

1. Add thread lock to both the preload cap and bolts
2. e13 torque spec: preload cap: 2 nm (or 3-4?) pinch bolts 14 nm. Install w/o the rubber seal (both e13 and Shimano)
3. Start with the motor side pinch bolt first
4. If replacing, shimano FC-M8150, EM900 and EM600 seem to fit. FC-M8050 do not.
5. Orbea is satisfied with e13 alloy cranks, believes the TSB fixed the issue, and is not replacing them at present

edit: e13 TSB: https://support.ethirteen.com/hc/en-us/articles/360058908731-Shimano-alloy-E-spec-Crank-Manual-

@benzy you nailed it 100%! Installed ethirteen 160mm cranks on my bike few months back using your stated methodology and absolutely no issues.

 

[Longfellow78]

I've gone with 8150 cranks just to avoid any further issues. My non-driveside e13 crank came off despite being installed from factory as per the updated recommendations. Fortunately low speed also so no injury.

Personally I feel like it is best to avoid the e13s.

Can you just buy the cranks? Do they work with the existing chainring or is a new one needed? I don't have the bike myself yet so dont understand how it works exactly. thanks

 

[chrismechmaster]

I have ordered the shimano cranks for my Rise

em900 ones

can anyone tell me the fitting Method , is it the same as the e 13 one eg theadlocker and same torque settings Etc

many thanks

 

[Grendel]

One of my e13 cranks just fell off. Bike is unusable. I wasn't aware of this issue until researching it now. I'm sure most work fine but be aware that this is an ongoing issue for some.

 

[Singletrackmind]

Been running the E13 cranks on my YT Decoy for more than a year with absolutely no issues. After aforementioned field issues, E13 released a revised torque down procedure that seems to have addressed the issue. As a normal precaution, I always perform periodically bike checks to ensure various bolts (bars, stem, saddle, brakes, cranks, ect...) are in good standing. Besides using the revised torque process, I purchased some aluminum crank arm bolts that are more robust than cheap stock plastic caps.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07N6CX9MP?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[Singletrackmind]

Been running the E13 cranks on my YT Decoy for more than a year with absolutely no issues. After aforementioned field issues, E13 released a revised torque down procedure that seems to have addressed the issue. As a normal precaution, I always perform periodically bike checks to ensure various bolts (bars, stem, saddle, brakes, cranks, ect...) are in good standing. Besides using the revised torque process, I purchased some aluminum crank arm bolts that are more robust than cheap stock plastic caps.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07N6CX9MP?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[Shjay]

Been running the E13 cranks on my YT Decoy for more than a year with absolutely no issues. After aforementioned field issues, E13 released a revised torque down procedure that seems to have addressed the issue. As a normal precaution, I always perform periodically bike checks to ensure various bolts (bars, stem, saddle, brakes, cranks, ect...) are in good standing. Besides using the revised torque process, I purchased some aluminum crank arm bolts that are more robust than cheap stock plastic caps.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07N6CX9MP?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Is your motor an E8000 or EP8 as E13 cranks are different

 

[Singletrackmind]

Is your motor an E8000 or EP8 as E13 cranks are different

I have the E8000 motor and believe the cranks are the same for both. You will need a little spacer (E8000 CONVERTER in the schematic) for the E8000 motor. Check out a company called 5Dev. They are making some awesome but pricy after market cranks for emtbs.

5DEV Shimano eCrank

Shimano eBike Motor Cranks from 5DEV 5DEV's CNC'd Billet Cranks come in 2 sizes and include all the features of our standard cranks. Reduce rock strikes and pedal strikes. Improve performance through technical climbs and terrain with shorter crank lengths. Made in San Diego, California. Q...

ride5dev.com

 

[Shjay]

E13 did no research for the EP8 motor just bunged on a rubber spacer, & surprise surprise they don’t work!! I run Shimano cranks on my Rise they are after all built for the motor

 

[Singletrackmind]

E13 did no research for the EP8 motor just bunged on a rubber spacer, & surprise surprise they don’t work!! I run Shimano cranks on my Rise they are after all built for the motor

I think whenever possible it's always best to go with OEM parts. At the time I switched to 160mm cranks, Shimano cranks were impossible to get. Have a pair waiting to be installed when I need to change out the E13's.

 

[Bigtuna00]

I've heard various things about the E*13 cranks and problems with the EP8.

But lots of threads and it's confusing. Please can someone in one post sum up the summary information for the noobs. Is there anything to add to below as is my understanding correct? Thanks.

1) As far as I read - there was a problem with the Carbon cranks falling off the top spec carbon bikes, which were replaced by Shimano with alloy cranks which was "supposed" to fix it.

2) Then there is a problem with the motor axle snapping because the pinch bolts were mounted the same side as a little hole in the motor axle, compressing and cracking it - the fix being to ensure that the motor hole is the opposite side to the pinch bolt, and that the pinch bolt is correctly torqued (don't know the torque amount) that the preload cap is correctly torqued (don't know the amount) and that blue threadlock is placed on the preload cap

3) That alloy cranks are falling off due to again incorrect torque and lack of threadlock as above.

Did I also read something about removing a rubber seal? Or was that to fit XT replacement cranks?

The root cause of this is that the cranks are not certified as compatible with shimano and that they are microscopically the wrong size, and if not tight enough they "walk" off the axle and cause all the above problems.

Any corrections or comments much appreciated, thanks.

2) and 3) are not correct. 3) is actually the problem that affected the carbon cranks. So 1) and 3) are the same issue.

2) is e*thirteen's side of the story. Which, if it were true, would apply to Shimano cranks as well.

I tend to take Shimano's side on this issue: the e*thirteen cranks have a defective design. This defective design causes several problems including causing the drive axle to crack. Again, if the issue was the position or torque of the crank, logically the Shimano cranks would be affected as well.