What's the consensus best DIY frame right now?

[scourge]

Sorry for such a open question, but I'm new here and still figuring things out. From what I can tell it seems like the Dengfu E10 and E22 seem like the most popular frames. People seem to really enjoy them. From what I can tell the E22 is the better 29er and the E10 is the better 27.5. I gotta say I wish they were had slacker head angles. I see some are using angled headsets, but it would be nice not to have to do that.

What about the Ican E11? I don't see much about that frame here. Is it not favorable for some reason? Are there other frames I'm missing or just don't know about? What's the best option if I wanted a 29er with at least mid travel?

Thank you for any opinions.

 

[Thediesel233]

Check out the VMG Typhon. It's really the only modern geometry DIY frame.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Check out the VMG Typhon. It's really the only modern geometry DIY frame.

So the E10 is not modern geo, many would disagree.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Check out the VMG Typhon. It's really the only modern geometry DIY frame.

what’s the cost of that frame?

 

[Mabman]

Frame/drive kits could be extremely popular going forward as many already have all the other bits hanging on their other bikes or have such preferences that no matter what a manufacturer hangs on a bike it will be off and replaced before it even leaves the shop.

While the DengFu bikes come closer to any previous Asian attempts at the serious eMTB market as alluded to the concept of "modern" geometry, that changes constantly it seems, is always going to be a few years behind the innovators driving it forward.

Chris @ VMG realized this several years ago and set out to rectify the situation. He contracted a carbon manufacturer to build a similar frame to the E10/Light Carbon frames but must have paid the mould cost of around 5k and ordered enough frames to entice the manufacturer into production.

Bottom line is that just about anyone could do the same thing and perhaps more will as time goes on. So my question is what would make the best DIY kit, including drive/battery? If you think about it the plethora of options, and more being revealed constantly it seems, makes it almost impossible to please everyone but perhaps enough market segment to make it a worthwhile venture?

 

[Thediesel233]

So the E10 is not modern geo, many would disagree.

Compared to the VMG, it's dated. But you're right, "modern geometry" is subjective.

 

[Thediesel233]

what’s the cost of that frame?

VMG Typhon Framesest | VMG Bikes

Weight: 3.11kg (frame only) 10.8kg (inc motor and battary) Crankset: Miranda 160mm Battery: Bafang BT25 48V 840Wh Drive Unit: Bafang M510 (M600 Optional) Display: Bafang dPC 241 Available now for shipping from Sydney.

vmgbikes.com

 

[Waynemarlow]

Compared to the VMG, it's dated.

How so ?

 

[Thediesel233]

The E10 has a steeper headtube angle and slacker seat tube angle.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Fit a mullet set up and the frames are not unsimilar with a bit of tweaking of components. Theres also many of us who ride more trail than Enduro and slacker head angles mean dead feeling steering and slower response on slower single track.

Bike Geo can be so adjustable, with just a bit of lateral thinking you can alter frame geo by a couple of degrees.

 

[Thediesel233]

Again, bike geometry is subjective.

OP said he desired a slacker head tube angle. The VMG provides that without tweaking/sacrificing reach or seat tube angle via a 27.5 rear and/or geoadjust headset.

If OP desired a steeper headtube on a frame, I wouldn't have suggested the VMG.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Check out the VMG Typhon. It's really the only modern geometry DIY frame.

Sorry I don't call 63.5 degrees a modern frame, that after all was old school downhill frames of the noughties.

One needs to be careful how frames are labelled as its horses for courses as far as I'm concerned. If you want, the E10 is a modern frame designed for its purpose, that of trail / XC and if you want to play with its components it will double nicely into that free ride category ( mine is 64.5 at the front and with its 15mm longer chainstays and slightly slacker seat stay, is a really good technical climber and that is important to me ).

The VMG is an Enduro / downhill frame that will be pretty dull on the trail and probably won't climb that well, but as I haven't ridden it, I can't really say that just surmise, as you have in saying the E10 is not a modern frame.

 

[Thediesel233]

I wouldn't categorize a 150mm frame as being geared toward XC/trail. But hey, that's another subjective topic.

You consider the E10 to have modern geometry. I don't. Different strokes for different folks, and that's fine.

We could go back and forth on this at nauseum, but that is counterproductive to this forum.

I think collectively we provided OP with ample information to help with their decision.

 

[DNE87]

Cannot find any geo information on the VMG website at all.

 

[Thediesel233]

You have to look under the complete bike page. I don't see it listed under the frame only section.

The VMG Typhon Enduro E-MTN Bike

The Typhon Enduro is equipped with more suspension, bigger brakes, and wider range gearing. No matter the terrain you ride, the Typhon Enduro is more than capable to handle your adventures.

vmgbikes.com

Cannot find any geo information on the VMG website at all.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I wouldn't categorize a 150mm frame as being geared toward XC/trail.

So all the latest crop of lightweights such as the Trek EXe ( which is labelled as XC and trail ) are out of touch ?

In my view there is no such thing as modern geometry in bike design, it’s all been tried years and years ago in one format or another. What we are seeing with the likes of the VMG is a design that fits into a niche as we did with downhill specific bikes of the 80’s.

At the end of the day it’s up to a buyer to decide on what he spends his hard earned cash on and where his majority of riding takes place, from that they should pick the geo that suits. Sadly all to often the power of marketing and over enthusiastic brand ambassadors influence buyers into making poor decisions.

 

[AlexRus]

Вы должны смотреть под полной страницей велосипеда. Я не вижу его в списке только для рамок.

The VMG Typhon Enduro E-MTN Bike

The Typhon Enduro is equipped with more suspension, bigger brakes, and wider range gearing. No matter the terrain you ride, the Typhon Enduro is more than capable to handle your adventures.

vmgbikes.com

He's got the geometry of a 5-6 year old Merida bike, short reach, short chainstay.
The E10 is also not new, but it looks better in comparison.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Seat tube angle is kinda irrelevant on an ebike. Atleast it doesn't make near as much of a difference on an ebike as it does a conventional bike.

And likewise, terms and trends like XC / trail / down country are also a bit mis-matched when you add a motor / battery. You don't gain any speed/efficiency on less aggressive trails / climbing trails with less travel, steep head/seat, and shorter typical xc numbers. So you may aswell run a bit more up the spectrum and have an overall much more capable bike.

Head tube angle, I don't know, I don't like it too slack personally. (Or too steep either.) Too slack and long, and then you fight to load the front up for grip on trail riding. Plus, if you then over fork it, and you push that front miles out in front. And you have a bit of a pig on your hands.

Things like chainstay length make loads of difference to the weight distribution/balance if a bike and overall handling of a bike, and yet are rarely talked about when compared to head angle, reach etc.

 

[patdam]

And the weight ? everybody (me alike other) focus on it, but in fact it's feels only when you need to cary the bike. More or less 5kg change a lot of less the riding experience than wheelbase length

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

And the weight ? everybody (me alike other) focus on it, but in fact it's feels only when you need to cary the bike. More or less 5kg change a lot of less the riding experience than wheelbase length

Yes, Weight is a bit of a non issue on e-bikes. You can still lean a 25 kg bike over no worries and won't even really notice it. The only time weight is a problem is loading the bike on/off your carrier.

 

[LAnton]

What can you say about this frame? Does she have modern geometry?

 

[TeoElFeo]

Yes, this is quite modern I would say. One thing that surprised me is that they chose to put 740wh battery on a light build. Personally I find that's good, but many will disagree

 

[Dirtnvert]

What can you say about this frame? Does she have modern geometry?

View attachment 101667

Thats pretty nice. What frame is this? Link? Price?
I like the geo of that vmg but theyre overpriced and their website doesnt give me a lot of confidence in the company. I dont see the rear travel of the enduro typhoon listed anywhere. There is several places it should be listed. The description is bare bones. I guess their bikes are all the same frame just different rear shocks but no mention of that. I could by a giant reign or scott ransom cheaper

 

[LAnton]

Yes, this is quite modern I would say. One thing that surprised me is that they chose to put 740wh battery on a light build. Personally I find that's good, but many will disagree

Yes, this is quite modern I would say. One thing that surprised me is that they chose to put 740wh battery on a light build. Personally I find that's good, but many will disagree

You can install a light battery bafang F014 410W. But this battery will not be enough and you will have to hang a second one on top, which will come to a weight of 740W. I like the removable battery, then there is a choice.

Thats pretty nice. What frame is this? Link? Price?
I like the geo of that vmg but theyre overpriced and their website doesnt give me a lot of confidence in the company. I dont see the rear travel of the enduro typhoon listed anywhere. There is several places it should be listed. The description is bare bones. I guess their bikes are all the same frame just different rear shocks but no mention of that. I could by a giant reign or scott ransom cheaper

Thats pretty nice. What frame is this? Link? Price?
I like the geo of that vmg but theyre overpriced and their website doesnt give me a lot of confidence in the company. I dont see the rear travel of the enduro typhoon listed anywhere. There is several places it should be listed. The description is bare bones. I guess their bikes are all the same frame just different rear shocks but no mention of that. I could by a giant reign or scott ransom cheaper

I do not know the company VMG. I talked to the manager and I liked how he explains. Now all Chinese manufacturers have about the same cost. It's good that there are several frame manufacturers. We will choose quality frames. I'm willing to pay a little more if I'm sure it's a quality product. And where can you see the reverse gear of the enduro typhoon from Dengfu and LightCarbon?

 

[LAnton]

Because many have a rear wheel of 27.5 and a front wheel of 29. I also have such a set of good wheels. I also have a Pike fork with a 140mm stroke. If you install such wheels and a fork with a stroke of 140mm on this frame. How badly will the geometry deteriorate?

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Because many have a rear wheel of 27.5 and a front wheel of 29. I also have such a set of good wheels. I also have a Pike fork with a 140mm stroke. If you install such wheels and a fork with a stroke of 140mm on this frame. How badly will the geometry deteriorate?

Mullet setup usually slackens things up by about a bit less than a degree. Over forking has similar effect also.

 

[thaeber]

What can you say about this frame? Does she have modern geometry?

View attachment 101667

Can You please provide a link or specify manufacturer and model?

 

[LAnton]

Mullet setup usually slackens things up by about a bit less than a degree. Over forking has similar effect also.

Can You please provide a link or specify manufacturer and model?

I can't yet. The manufacturer asked not to give this information. Soon this frame will be on sale. We will compare three major manufacturers Dengfu, LightCarbon and incognito. And choose the best frame.

 

[LAnton]

BB 360mm

 

[AlexRus]

What can you say about this frame? Does she have modern geometry?

Yes, it looks like the best thing on the Chinese frame market right now.