What tyres? The Ultimate Tyre Thread

[Gary]

As a matter of fact I cannot even put the rear axle in as it goes solid up against the lover front triangle......

So a hardtail then?
hmm... sounds like a proper ropey design.
it's def not the rim width that's causing the issue. A 2.4" tyre isn't going to become taller by sticking it on a 34mm internal width rim

Btw bike is sold as a dual wheel size bike!

Not fit for purpose?

 

[khorn]

So a hardtail then?
hmm... sounds like a proper


ropey design.
it's def not the rim width that's causing the issue
Not fit for purpose?

It’s a 2018 Levo FSR comp carbon and take a look at post 27 here:

Calling those that are running 29" on their Turbo Levo - EMTB Forums

After talking with Specialized they claim that the bike will take a 2.4 tire..... BUT only a Specialized 2.4 tire on a 30 mm Roval rim - they claim that it’s because I’m running a non Specialized tire on a too wide non Specialized rim and I call that a bull.... explanation!

Karsten

 

[Gary]

It’s a 2018 Levo FSR comp carbon and take a look at post 27 here:

Calling those that are running 29" on their Turbo Levo - EMTB Forums

After talking with Specialized they claim that the bike will take a 2.4 tire..... BUT only a Specialized 2.4 tire on a 30 mm Roval rim - they claim that it’s because I’m running a non Specialized tire on a too wide non Specialized rim and I call that a bull.... explanation!

Karsten

Just looked. Yeah. If that's sold as a 29" wheel compatible frame it's absolutely not fit for purpose.
Looking at it i wouldn't even want to run a 2.1. the slightsest amount of mud on the tyre and it'd wear on the frame. not to mention when wheel/frame flex comes into play aswell.

 

[khorn]

Just looked. Yeah. If that's sold as a 29" wheel compatible frame it's absolutely not fit for purpose.
Looking at it i wouldn't even want to run a 2.1. the slightsest amount of mud on the tyre and it'd wear on the frame. not to mention when wheel/frame flex comes into play aswell.

Directly from Specialized:

Yet another marketing lie from Specialized and the very main reason why I bought it in the first place.

Karsten

 

[Gary]

That's properly shit !

 

[khorn]

That's properly shit !

I agree and when I asked @Specialized Rider Care the same question they simply disappeared.....

Karsten

This is the answer I got from Specialized Nordic:

Hi Karsten,

Thank you for the email!

The bike is sold as a 6Fattie, but with the possibility to fit 29er wheels.




The max tire width, (recommended by Specialized) with Specialized tire and Roval rim is 2.4”.
Please try to fit a Specialized tire on the rim and see if that works better for you.
The wide rim with 34mm inner width of course affects this also, choosing a rim that is a little bit narrower could also help in getting better clearance.
As a reference, the Roval Traverse 29 Carbon rim has 30mm inner width.

Thanks in advance, and please let us know the result!

Med vänliga hälsningar/Ystävällisin terveisin/Med venlig hilsen

Rider Care Nordic

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Directly from Specialized:

View attachment 10414

Yet another marketing lie from Specialized and the very main reason why I bought it in the first place.

Karsten

I think what likely happened there is that was developed for the 2017/2018 Levos and that app development and software planning, along with bike planning, took place much before that.

Since the laws have got increasingly tougher on ‘back door’ tuning and deristricting, specifically relating to wheel size changes, they were forced to remove that option. I don’t think they’ve deliberately gone out there way to mislead... more like had their hands forced or risk being sued.

I also recently learned that it wouldn’t be Specialized that could be sued/ held liable, but the head of the Project team is personally liable for this. Same for any bike company, the Project manager can now be held personally responsible (and severe penalties) if they knowingly allow any back door...

The law is getting very very aware of tuning ebikes, manufacturers have a legal obligation to adhere to it. Law will always trump user experience ?

 

[khorn]

I think what likely happened there is that was developed for the 2017/2018 Levos and that app development and software planning, along with bike planning, took place much before that.

Since the laws have got increasingly tougher on ‘back door’ tuning and deristricting, specifically relating to wheel size changes, they were forced to remove that option. I don’t think they’ve deliberately gone out there way to mislead... more like had their hands forced or risk being sued.

I also recently learned that it wouldn’t be Specialized that could be sued/ held liable, but the head of the Project team is personally liable for this. Same for any bike company, the Project manager can now be held personally responsible if they knowingly allow any back door...

The law is getting very very aware of tuning ebikes, manufacturers have a legal obligation to adhere to it. Law will always trump user experience ?

I kindly disagree with you on that particular one regarding the wheel size question, if they made 2 buttons in MC, one with a 27.5" sign and one with a 29" I'm absolutely sure that could be acceptable from a law standpoint. As an example take the diesel cars where you sometimes can gain 30% more power by chip tuning, no car maker chief engineer will go to jail for me being able to chip tune the car. The reason for that is that I, as the consumer, utilize the car in a way that is not intended so the car factory cannot be held responsible for me breaking the law. The same goes for de-restricting bikes, I'm deliberately modifying the bike in a way that is not openly intended from a manufacturer standpoint and that cannot be their responsibility. I'm sure that they won't get sued cause they designed the speed sensor mount/rear hub in a way that the system can be fooled in registering half of the actual speed of the bike

At the end I of course understand and accept the fact that any manufacturer don't want to be held reliable for anything relating to the sale of their products but again, if you take more precautions than necessary from a law standpoint, their customers will turn their heads towards other manufactures that are less restrictive. The rumour that specialized is about to(or have already included) implement a GPS speed check function to the bike software, could very well be the tipping point.

Back to the topic, it is obvious that the product is not fit for purpose with regards to running a 29" 2.4 tire as I have clearly demonstrated with multiple pictures and it is also a fact that Specialized don't give a shit about it even they have clearly used it as a marketing gimmick.....

Back to topic

Karsten

 

[steve_sordy]

I was out on the Viking Way today and came across a section that was clay mud, twigs, leaves and lots of deep ruts. It reinforced my decision to change the Maxxis Rekons for something that clears mud a bit better, Maxxis HR II. I'm hoping they will be in Monday's post.

The rear was sliding about all over the place and if I got up any speed I was showered in mud flung off the rear wheel. It got worse later when the big puddles came, but at least the tyres cleared a little! I think I took months of use from the chain.

 

[Russell]

I'm not to happy with the durability of 2.8 exo minion. There is plenty of tread left but the side wall failed and the rubber has come away from the Kevlar or whatever it is that they make the bead out of. I could take it back but after having to return two helmets to the shop after premature failures (first ride) it's getting embarrassing and maxxis refused to deal directly with me. For a £60 tyre that's not been used on rough rocks I would expect the side wall to out last the tread.

 

[Mattwilko92]

Went out today with MM up front and Eddy Current rear, both 29 x 2.6 and grip fantastic. Seem to roll really well too. Highly recommend.

 

[steve_sordy]

I'm not to happy with the durability of 2.8 exo minion. There is plenty of tread left but the side wall failed and the rubber has come away from the Kevlar or whatever it is that they make the bead out of. I could take it back but after having to return two helmets to the shop after premature failures (first ride) it's getting embarrassing and maxxis refused to deal directly with me. For a £60 tyre that's not been used on rough rocks I would expect the side wall to out last the tread.

Don't blame yourself! I had the exact same failure in Continental Trail Kings. They were black chilli compound versions, and they only come from one factory in Germany. The tyre wall failed at the bead the same distance away from the Conti "Protection" logo, same side of the tyre. The shops I bought them from gave me no hassle. One tyre was a replacement for the other and the first shop no longer had the tyre I wanted. They both wanted pics of the fault, presumably for Conti. I got a 100% refund in each case. I'm not talking of minor faults here, I'm talking a four inch tear! They were clearly production faults.

 

[Swissrob]

Directly from Specialized:

View attachment 10414

Yet another marketing lie from Specialized and the very main reason why I bought it in the first place.

Karsten

Simple solution.
Someone nearby must have a 2019 Levo borrow a wheel photos and lawyers. As you know Alu 2018 fits 29 in the rear so it is only a problem on carbon. Easier if you can go to a local Specialized shop and do it there. Different places different laws but I would insist on getting a new rear triangle but expect a new 2019 carbon frame. Forget email and phone calls, registered letters and Facebook until it's resolved. Man up, nice guys finish last, good luck!

 

[khorn]

Simple solution.
Someone nearby must have a 2019 Levo borrow a wheel photos and lawyers. As you know Alu 2018 fits 29 in the rear so it is only a problem on carbon. Easier if you can go to a local Specialized shop and do it there. Different places different laws but I would insist on getting a new rear triangle but expect a new 2019 carbon frame. Forget email and phone calls, registered letters and Facebook until it's resolved. Man up, nice guys finish last, good luck!

Honestly I don’t want a 2019 Levo, I want my 2018 fit for purpose iaw the way it was advertised!

Karsten

 

[steve_sordy]

Aim low and you might win, but you won't win much.
Aim high and you might lose, but you'll get more than if you had aimed low.

Some call the latter result "losing". But it depends upon what you consider a win.

 

[steve_sordy]

Ref post #553 above about my dis-satisfaction with the Maxxis Rekon 29x2.6 tyres that came with the Focus Jam2. The front tyre was a 3C Maxx Terra, the rear was a single compound. Both were EXO/TR and run tubeless. The internal rim width F&R is 30 mm. The front tyre weighed 890g, rear was 805g. I ran the front at 18psi, rear at 20psi and my riding weight is 92kg / 203lbs / 14.5 stones.

I replaced them both with Maxxis 29x2.5 WT High Roller II 3C Maxx Terra EXO/TR. They each weighed 1016g, both set up tubeless. I opted for the same tyre pressures as above 18F/20R.

First ride today on some loose and slimy trails, but no puddles worth mentioning. For the first time since I bought the bike, I had confidence in the tyres when off road. The tyres just gripped on corners and the rear only spun out on extremes (like "walk assist" up a very steep slope that was so loose that as soon as I let go of the bike I slid all the way back down!) I need more practice with walk assist. The tyres inspired such confidence that I tried riding up slopes that I would never have even attempted on the old tyres. Mostly I succeeded, but as I say I need more practice. Boost is not always the best mode to be in! The ride felt smooth and free rolling. I doubt that I will be changing the tyre pressures unless I get some problems in the future.

 

[khorn]

I need a little tire advice from you tire gurus

For different reasons it seems like I'm kind locked into using the Maxxis Minion DHF 29" 2.5 WT EXO as my rear tire due to mainly clearance issues. As I prefer that my rear end loosing traction before the front end, I'm now in the market for a corresponding front tire. The conditions I typically ride in here in Denmark are a mixture of everything apart from rocks(we don't have rock in Denmark) but especially during spring and autumn it can get quite wet and muddy here. Btw the mud we usually have is the softer/more liquid type as there are not that much clay and the ground is quite sandy many places.

I'm actually considering the 2.5 DHR2 in a Max Terra compound but unsure if that will have better traction than the rear tire I already have - Any good advice?

Karsten

 

[R120]

I have put about 300 miles on my Hillybillys now, 2.6, and bar far the best tyre I have use in British Winter conditions, they grip like you want, and shed mud, clay and horse poop better than any other tyre I have tried, whilst also rolling well and performing on the dryer sections.

I am concurrently running MM 2.6'S on my hardtail and the Hillybillys are outperforming them, which is saying something as the MM's are very good.

 

[khorn]

I have put about 300 miles on my Hillybillys now, 2.6, and bar far the best tyre I have use in British Winter conditions, they grip like you want, and shed mud, clay and horse poop better than any other tyre I have tried, whilst also rolling well and performing on the dryer sections.

I am concurrently running MM 2.6'S on my hardtail and the Hillybillys are outperforming them, which is saying something as the MM's are very good.

Thanks and I’m as a matter of fact also looking at the Hillbilly but unsure about how it hold up against the rear DHF. I know that the DHF is maybe not the best tire in wet muddy conditions and it is there I’m most afraid of loosing the front end first, I really hate it as it is usually quite painful

Karsten

 

[khorn]

Btw just got around this test and to clear a few misunderstandings in this thread, Maxxis Minion DHR and DHF does as a matter of fact not stand for "front" and "rear". DHF is a acronym for Downhill "Free ride" and DHR is the acronym for Downhill "Race".

A test of the new WT DHRII:
Review: Maxxis Minion DHR II 2.4 WT DoubleDown Tyre - Singletrack Magazine


Karsten

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Have just ordered a pair of DHRII in 2.4 WT in 29er for the Levo. Maxx Terra 3C. Going to try running both front and rear.

@khorn weird, I though they’d got rid of the DD casings.

 

[khorn]

Have just ordered a pair of DHRII in 2.4 WT in 29er for the Levo. Maxx Terra 3C. Going to try running both front and rear.

@khorn weird, I though they’d got rid of the DD casings.

For me here in Denmark without rocks, the DD casings are just extra weight and more rolling resistance so I go for the EXO dual compound. As a matter of fact I might shift the 2.5 to the front and run the 2.4 DHRII at the rear but a test ride will show what is best. I don't want my front to let loose before the rear.

I think that the DD is still in there programme and I guess for hardcore DH riders it makes sense.

Karsten

 

[steve_sordy]

Btw just got around this test and to clear a few misunderstandings in this thread, Maxxis Minion DHR and DHF does as a matter of fact not stand for "front" and "rear". DHF is a acronym for Downhill "Free ride" and DHR is the acronym for Downhill "Race".

............

Wow! How many years have I not known that!
In all previous mentions of Minions the context was always DHF for the front and DHR for the rear. It seemed so obvious that I never questioned it. Another example of ASSUME being true!

 

[Gary]

Btw just got around this test and to clear a few misunderstandings in this thread, Maxxis Minion DHR and DHF does as a matter of fact not stand for "front" and "rear". DHF is a acronym for Downhill "Free ride" and DHR is the acronym for Downhill "Race".

Despite Singletrack printing it this isn't strictly 100% accurate.

The original Highroller, DHR and DHF were introduced almost 20 years back and as DH was hugely popular Maxxis were attempting to dethrone Michelin in the DH tyre of choice stakes. tons of Maxxis tyres were given to top DH racers. (pre-public availability). I remember the year they suddenly appeared on certain riders wheels at every race very well. then when they were released to the public Maxxis halved the RRP of michelin's comp 16/24 series DH tyres and introduced a choice of compound. Instantly taking that throne.
savy DH racers very quickly realised the original DHR was junk and only any good in high grip conditions where ultimately rolling speed would count more than outright cornering grip. (hence the "freeride" moniker they got). It was still originally designed for racing though. just not very well. because of this many DH racers begun using DHFs front and rear. or a DHF and HR.
Maxxis realised this and so the actual acronym remained intentionally vague/ambiguous and has had more than a few interpretations since conception.

 

[Gary]

Have just ordered a pair of DHRII in 2.4 WT in 29er for the Levo. Maxx Terra 3C. Going to try running both front and rear.

I assume Exo casing?
Should work out fine for you Rob albeit a little more draggy on the rear compared to a dual compound.

I only use DHRIIs upfront. and mainly for their increased braking performance on very steep terrain.
I bought one for the rear to go with a Magic Mary for the slop/snow but the HRII i had on is absolutely fine for traction and slides.drifts like a dream. only really let down by it's inferior braking performance but probably makes up for that with it's slightly lower drag/faster rolling.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I assume Exo casing?
Should work out fine for you Rob albeit a little more draggy on the rear compared to a dual compound.

I only use DHRIIs upfront. and mainly for their increased braking performance on very steep terrain.
I bought one for the rear to go with a Magic Mary for the slop/snow but the HRII i had on is absolutely fine for traction and slides.drifts like a dream. only really let down by it's inferior braking performance but probably makes up for that with it's slightly lower drag/faster rolling.

Yes, Exo. I’ve got a DHF MaxxGrip 3C Exo at the front at the moment and a DHR dual Exo on the rear. Be interesting to see how the setup compares.

 

[Gary]

Be interesting to see how the setup compares.

Your manuals will be slower and front wheel washouts more frequent*

#Science



*nah... i jest! You'll recalibrate and it'll be just fine

 

[khorn]

Despite Singletrack printing it this isn't strictly 100% accurate.

The original Highroller, DHR and DHF were introduced almost 20 years back and as DH was hugely popular Maxxis were attempting to dethrone Michelin in the DH tyre of choice stakes. tons of Maxxis tyres were given to top DH racers. (pre-public availability). I remember the year they suddenly appeared on certain riders wheels at every race very well. then when they were released to the public Maxxis halved the RRP of michelin's comp 16/24 series DH tyres and introduced a choice of compound. Instantly taking that throne.
savy DH racers very quickly realised the original DHR was junk and only any good in high grip conditions where ultimately rolling speed would count more than outright cornering grip. (hence the "freeride" moniker they got). It was still originally designed for racing though. just not very well. because of this many DH racers begun using DHFs front and rear. or a DHF and HR.
Maxxis realised this and so the actual acronym remained intentionally vague/ambiguous and has had more than a few interpretations since conception.

I guess that is your interpretation of history and I don’t say that you are wrong at all, I’m just saying that the big Internet disagree with your statement above. Its not only “Singletrack” that have that understanding of “DHF” and “DHR”.

I know nothing about the specific tire as I’m still to test it out for the first time so I’m not biased.

Karsten

 

[Gary]

BIG INTERNET ??

I’m just saying that the big Internet disagree with your statement above.

I wasn't really disagreeing with what you (or STW) wrote dude. Simply expanding on how it actually played out at the time and explaining the ambiguity surrounding the names.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Red car rocket runs dhr front and back. Seems to work mediocre
John Kircaldie was a racer that designed the dhf. Secretly envious of freeriders though drove to where it was dry instead of race in the mud/fakt