What tyres? The Ultimate Tyre Thread

[jcmonty]

#Lovesbackbrake

Ha.. probably not an incorrect statement. But I would also point out that i had the stock butcher on for 600 miles, and it seemed to wear longer.

 

[outerlimits]

@outerlimits Any chance you can get some measurements of the tread and the casing width? Assuming that you are still on 38mm rims as well? I have been eyeing those tires, but have heard they are fairly small for 2.6

Side note - I have been running a WTB 2.6 Trail boss on the rear of my Kenevo w/ SC Reserve 37. True 2.6 (even slightly wider at tread) on 37mm rims. Other than a pinch flat early on running too low pressure, i have been loving the tire. Rolls great, grips well and is super predictable compared to the stock butcher. Tread wear seems higher than the Butcher it replaced, but I am ok with that given the performance. WTB also sent me a free tough casing to try when I told them about the early pinch flat. Can't complain about that!

New
View attachment 9146
After ~ 150 miles View attachment 9145

Ok pic of box and quoted figures.
Rear black Dimond case at 26psi measured 69mm at the wall and 63 at the tread.
Front grid case at 22psi measured 66mm at the wall and 61at the tread. Fitted to the standard 38mm inner rims running tubeless.
Must get some stretch as initial fit up at 40psi they measured lower and the tread was wider than the walls.
Time will tell if they are durable or not.

 

[Gary]

What is the obsession with measuring tyres these days?

You can see straight away by eye if a mounted tyre is the sort of width you like and what profile it gives on your particular chosen rim width.
the actual measurement is not important. it's tread patern, knob height, block spacing, profile, casing construction and rubber compound that gives the tyre it's grip not a mesurement between caliper jaws.
Assuming you have chosen a tyre appropriate for the conditions what IS actually important is learning the traits of the tyre eg. how the lean over in turns affects it's grip, where, how and why it breaks loose, what traits it has when it does break loose, the grip limit and whether it will be saveable when it does break loose. All of these traits have to be learned from riding. Put your calipers and tape measures away and ride the bike instead. start using common sense and pushing your tyres towards their limits..

 

[outerlimits]

What is the obsession with measuring tyres these days?

You can see straight away by eye if a mounted tyre is the sort of width you like and what profile it gives on your particular chosen rim width.
the actual measurement is not important. it's tread patern, knob height, block spacing, profile, casing construction and rubber compound that gives the tyre it's grip not a mesurement between caliper jaws.
Assuming you have chosen a tyre appropriate for the conditions what IS actually important is learning the traits of the tyre eg. how the lean over in turns affects it's grip, where, how and why it breaks loose, what traits it has when it does break loose, the grip limit and whether it will be saveable when it does break loose. All of these traits have to be learned from riding. Put your calipers and tape measures away and ride the bike instead. start using common sense and pushing your tyres towards their limits..

I pushed my 2.8’s beyond their limits, now it’s time for something different. I like my new treads, even if they fall out of spec measurements wise. I plan on taking them to the limit, and hope not they go beyondZ

 

[Benson]

Currently running the stock Butchers on a 2019 Levo and find them a bit wishy washy and sluggish. I’m a heavier rider (100kg) so tend to run my tyres a little firmer than some (25 - 30 psi) and tubeless. I ride all year, mainly on the likes of man made trails (Swinley, FOD, bikeparks) along with some natural muddy singletrack.

It seems that Maxxis Minions DHRII WT are cool and the information here suggests Dual Exo is probably the way to go. The remaining question is will I likely notice any issue going from 2.6” to 2.4” or is this all industry cobblers?

I was going to grab a pair of these .... I guess I’m just looking for some confirmation these are likely the most appropriate choice ...

Maxxis Minion DHR II Folding EXO TR WT WideTrail MTB Mountain Bike 29er Tyre | Tredz Bikes

 

[Kernow]

Currently running the stock Butchers on a 2019 Levo and find them a bit wishy washy and sluggish. I’m a heavier rider (100kg) so tend to run my tyres a little firmer than some (25 - 30 psi) and tubeless. I ride all year, mainly on the likes of man made trails (Swinley, FOD, bikeparks) along with some natural muddy singletrack.

It seems that Maxxis Minions DHRII WT are cool and the information here suggests Dual Exo is probably the way to go. The remaining question is will I likely notice any issue going from 2.6” to 2.4” or is this all industry cobblers?

I was going to grab a pair of these .... I guess I’m just looking for some confirmation these are likely the most appropriate choice ...

Maxxis Minion DHR II Folding EXO TR WT WideTrail MTB Mountain Bike 29er Tyre | Tredz Bikes

I think you’ll regret going down to a 2.4 especially for a heavier rider , i dropped to smaller tyres in the summer and now back on the 2.6 I realise I didn’t gain anything , result was less clearance more pedal strikes Easier to puncture , require higher pressure , less grip and slower rolling almost everywhere off-road

 

[Gary]

It's all a compromise and only YOU can know which characteristics you're happy to compromise and which ones you don't
A 2.5/2.4 tyre is what wins WC DH and EWS races. the *need* for anything bigger is nothing more than marketing spin. (grab a ruler and measure 0.1 of an inch)
Personally I'd consider a DHRII sort of overkill on the rear for trail centre use but it's tread patern will be a lot better than a SS on all your more natural wet/muddy non-manmade terrain.
likewise the DHRII upfront will be more than grippy enough for the trail centres but when proper mud is going to feature something like a soft compound Magic Mary would be better. A lot of people run a soft compound (3C) upfront with a harder compond (Dual) for faster rolling but bags of front wheel grip. This makes sense both on regular bikes and Ebikes

Ideally I'd have two wheelsets for my Ebike. one with a DHF/SS (both dual) combo for all round use, the other with a MM(soft)/DHRII(dual) combo for hitting wet technical muddy descents like it's dry.

 

[Gary]

i dropped to smaller tyres in the summer and now back on the 2.6

Same tyres, casing and compound?

 

[Kernow]

Same tyres, casing and compound?

No different tyres altogether , just less volume , hoping to gain more battery life etc .
Having now gone back to a larger volume tyre I realise It rolls better on rough ground .
Iam noticing a trend towards larger tyres everywhere , even with roadies who are slowly catching on to fatter rolls faster too .

 

[outerlimits]

A lot of guys at my local swear by the DHF and DHR. So I run them for a while but I felt they were still lacking in places. I recently switched to the Spesh Eliminators and i’m now smoking them on the trails. You have to run a Tyre that suits your riding and where you ride. You are always going to have to make some compromises with running one set of tyres year round.

 

[Gary]

larger volume tyres in road isn't a new trend. it's been slowly happening for a good few years now. larger volume tyres are only really becoming popular with punters though and it's mainly for comfort reasons with actual racers staying around 25mm due to aero losses at larger volumes at the seeds they ride. That and the riders all being hard as nails/on drugs (delete as appt) so comfort is not of concern.
Rolling resistance is created by a combination of many things; tyre construction/carcus/TPi, tread patern, knob height, rubber durometer, weight, tube/tubeless, tyre volume and profile. So comparing completely different tyres tells you very little about the effect just raising tyre volume has on rolling resistance.
A wider higher volume tyre can roll more smoothly over rough ground but it also loses some of it's support and directness. Whether you'll be faster on a particular width/volume/pressure (using the same tyre in different volumes) has a lot to do with conditions and actual terrain but also the rider/riding style too. And forgetting rolling resistance/speed entirely volume choice also comes down to a riders personal preference/background/experiance.

 

[Kernow]

larger volume tyres in road isn't a new trend. it's been slowly happening for a good few years now. larger volume tyres are only really becoming popular with punters though and it's mainly for comfort reasons with actual racers staying around 25mm due to aero losses at larger volumes at the seeds they ride. That and the riders all being hard as nails/on drugs (delete as appt) so comfort is not of concern.
Rolling resistance is created by a combination of many things; tyre construction/carcus/TPi, tread patern, knob height, rubber durometer, weight, tube/tubeless, tyre volume and profile. So comparing completely different tyres tells you very little about the effect just raising tyre volume has on rolling resistance.
A wider higher volume tyre can roll more smoothly over rough ground but it also loses some of it's support and directness. Whether you'll be faster on a particular width/volume/pressure (using the same tyre in different volumes) has a lot to do with conditions and actual terrain but also the rider/riding style too. And forgetting rolling resistance/speed entirely volume choice also comes down to a riders personal preference/background/experiance.

Yes lots of tech with tyres ,I understand most of it , I fitted 28mm to the roadie about 3 years ago , just for comfort then realised I was rolling faster than everyone else on their 23 and 25 tyres I don’t ride with anyone fast enough to overcome the difference in aero , especially with our hills there’s no long flats anywhere .it’s taken about 2 years for a few of the roadies to try a 28mm tyre and believe the difference . They still don’t get road tubeless , that’s voodoo , and disc brakes the debate still continues ?
Different tyres aside , there’s a few conclusive tests about that show the higher volume off road tyre being faster in almost all conditions . Where that ends who knows , look at this years new bikes , lots have a wider tyre fitted and Iam hearing lots of the racers saying they are preferring a larger tyre in whatever thier favourite brand is . It’s all going back to 29er again too , it was never slower so no idea why it lost popularity for a few years
I know different tyres are not a conclusive test , but out of 5 different tyres I’ve tried on the ebike the larger volume always seems to win for me . They are all 2.5 or 2.6 tyres but the difference in size Is quite large , which is the reason everyone is so interested in the way each tyre measures up compared to other same size tyres

 

[Gary]

The road scene around here is pretty huge and as far as I'm aware the faster bunches all still mainly ride rim brakes and 25s all through the milder months. Come the colder months out come their full mudguarded up winter bikes and generally run on 28s

Seb Stott did a pretty good video for Bikeradar comparing the rolling resistance of 3 different width tyres going to great lengths to making it as evenly comparable as he could
here:
Full article:
What’s the fastest tyre size for mountain biking?
It's interesting for sure. And I love the attention to detail he's gone to. But...
Thing is Seb is just one rider. Using myself as an example Ok he's a fair bit taller granted but our entire riding styles are different, the bikes we prefer to ride (in the same places) are almost complete oposites with one of us preferring larger super stable long reach/wheelbase stuck to the ground bikes whereas the other's preference is for a short super poppy maneouverable bike that breaks free easily (up, down and sideways ) a lot of folk my height would feel sketchy riding fast on a bike as short as I like. Because of this our riding positions are totally different to each others and despite probably weighing a similar amount and riding at a similar speed don't even use tyre pressures anywhere close to each others.
Repeating Seb's entire test with another rider/bike the results may or may not not turn out the same

like I said we're all different. Just run what you like best (there's always going to be an aspect of trial and error and personal preference here). There's really no point worrying about the clock unless you're racing at the sharp end.
Having said that rolling resistance/wheel weight is definitely significant to Ebike battery range.
The largest, softest, stickiest most aggressively block treaded tyres can have upto 70W more rolling resistance in comparisson to a set of the lightest fastest harder compound xc racing tyres.

 

[Kernow]

The road scene around here is pretty huge and as far as I'm aware the faster bunches all still mainly ride rim brakes and 25s all through the milder months. Come the colder months out come their full mudguarded up winter bikes and generally run on 28s

Seb Stott did a pretty good video for Bikeradar comparing the rolling resistance of 3 different width tyres going to great lengths to making it as evenly comparable as he could
here:
Full article:
What’s the fastest tyre size for mountain biking?
It's interesting for sure. And I love the attention to detail he's gone to. But...
Thing is Seb is just one rider. Using myself as an example Ok he's a fair bit taller granted but our entire riding styles are different, the bikes we prefer to ride (in the same places) are almost complete oposites with one of us preferring larger super stable long reach/wheelbase stuck to the ground bikes whereas the other's preference is for a short super poppy maneouverable bike that breaks free easily (up, down and sideways ) a lot of folk my height would feel sketchy riding fast on a bike as short as I like. Because of this our riding positions are totally different to each others and despite probably weighing a similar amount and riding at a similar speed don't even use tyre pressures anywhere close to each others.
Repeating Seb's entire test with another rider/bike the results may or may not not turn out the same

like I said we're all different. Just run what you like best (there's always going to be an aspect of trial and error and personal preference here). There's really no point worrying about the clock unless you're racing at the sharp end.
Having said that rolling resistance/wheel weight is definitely significant to Ebike battery range.
The largest, softest, stickiest most aggressively block treaded tyres can have upto 70W more rolling resistance in comparisson to a set of the lightest fastest harder compound xc racing tyres.

Its a very interesting test that and really surprised me , I was in the 2.6 is the sweet spot camp and expected them to win on , although the 2.6 butcher is more like a 2.5 , so much difference in sizes between different tyres , even specialised 3 main tyres butcher pergatory and slaughter vary a lot in thier size and it seems carcass , even though they are all classified as grid .

It’s been interesting lately , my daughter has been riding my 2017 Vitus Escarpe with a 2.4 Mary up front and a 2.3 high roller on the rear , she bought the new Escarpe wich came with 2.5 dhf and 2.4 Dhr . Her first impression was that’s going to be hard work to pedal , anyway afshe is raving about the improved ride from the bigger tyres and how well they roll. Her boyfriend has 2 new Scott ransome the cheaper one a basic model came with 2.6 tyres compared to the high end which is running a 2.4 , again he’s saying he likes the feel of the fatter tyre . No real timed testing just the usual bashing about in the woods etc . I try to keep an open mind to it all , I think we all have it in our heads what works best , it’s taken me a week or two on a very fat looking 2.6 Mary to actually push it in muddy conditions , iam looking at that fat front tyre thinking it surely can’t dig in , it’s going to just wash out , but it doesn’t behave badly at all .
As for the roadies Iam always tickled by their total resistance to change what has been the norm in roadbikes for so long , I love some of the reasons I hear why the stuff is no good , tubeless through axles ,disc brakes etc , and how few of them have any mechanical ability to do simple maintenance , but thats another subject

 

[R120]

I am running Hillybillys front and rear on the E-Sommett at the moment, usually I would only consider the Hillybilly on the front, but got to say they are working amazing, and feel like they have a lot less rolling resistance than the MM's on my hardtail - this morning I KOM'd one of the harder road climbs round here with them on the E-Sommett, which surprised me, and will no doubt piss of the local roadies no end . Not a strava'r at all, just use it to map rides, but it did surprise me as usually the EMTB whilst competitive on road climbs doesn't really come close to touching the top times.

Hillybillys have great rear grip to get the power down, but are not by any means veering into sloppy ballon tire territory.

I am running the 2.6 Grid/Gripton variant.

 

[highpeakrider]

For the mud I’ve gone DHF 2.5 with higher pressures, they cut through the mud and seem to roll well on 30mm rims, in summer I’ll go back to 2.8s Recons on 40mm rims with lower pressures for comfort and rolling over rocks.

 

[Benson]

I think you’ll regret going down to a 2.4 especially for a heavier rider , i dropped to smaller tyres in the summer and now back on the 2.6 I realise I didn’t gain anything , result was less clearance more pedal strikes Easier to puncture , require higher pressure , less grip and slower rolling almost everywhere off-road

Would a 2.5” Minion DHF WT 3C Maxx Terra EXO work better on the front with a 2.4” DHR II WT DC on the rear as a compromise?

 

[Kernow]

Would a 2.5” Minion DHF 3C Maxx Terra EXO work better on the front with a 2.4” DHR II WT DC on the rear as a compromise?

I think some of it depends on what size tyre your bike had to begin with , my bike for instance came with same tyres 2.6 front and rear . the combo I fitted had a smaller rear and probably bigger front and I could feel the change in steering with the back sitting lower ,probably only a few mm lower in reality but I noticed I had to be more careful about pedal strikes and re learn what I could get away,
I think in my case the manufacturer got the tyre size choice right to begin with and changing too drastically to smaller sizes doesn’t suit it , I think the new Levo is almost identical to my meta in geometry so I guess you’ll feel similar changes to me .
Your butchers at 2.6 presuming that’s what you have now are not actually as big as other 2.6 tyres out there , I had one on the front and it’s now on the rear , I didn’t like it on the front, when it got wet and muddy .
My original tyres were 2.6 high rollers wich i couldn’t fault trail centres etc . Not tried the dhf or dhr , so cant comment , although these tyres always get great reviews in all sizes .
I ran a specialised slaughter grid in the summer and I think that would stay on if was mainly hardpack trail centre riding , although my inserts had clearly saved at least 7 disasters without the inserts they would have died very quickly .that 2.6 slaughter barely came up to 2.5 . I tried a 2.6 pergatory up front which was a full 2.6 and very rounded and tall almost balloon like , it really made the bike steer badly as if I had gone to a very slack head angle , I wouldn’t recomend that tyre up front , and yet to try it on the rear .
I think really you’ve gotta bite the bullet and just try what you fancy , There isn’t enough time for any rider to try every tyre and we’re all different , but what said earlier heavy rider smaller tyre I don’t think gives any advantage

 

[Benson]

I think really you’ve gotta bite the bullet and just try what you fancy , There isn’t enough time for any rider to try every tyre and we’re all different , but what said earlier heavy rider smaller tyre I don’t think gives any advantage

It’s hard though isn’t it, as evidenced by the 18 or so pages of discussion here already. Tyres are hugely expensive and most of us are time poor too when it comes to tinkering with combinations. The point of discussion isn’t to immediately identify the perfect combination of rubber for someone with minimal information but to learn from the experience of others and reduce the likelihood of dropping a clanger and wasting £100 plus on something that highly experienced riders would never have touched with a barge pole in the first place.

 

[2manytickets]

Got some new tire for the levo. Hopefully they work out. Der Baron/ Der Kiser combo. They look to be true to size to 29x2.4

 

[DrKrown]

I’m running my turbo levo with high roller II, 29 front and 27.5 back. Both 2.5
Just wondering if a narrower tyre at the front (2.3) leaving 2.5 back could be better or not...

 

[Jeff McD]

Would a 2.5” Minion DHF WT 3C Maxx Terra EXO work better on the front with a 2.4” DHR II WT DC on the rear as a compromise?

Hey Benson, that is what I run on my 2018 levo and they are superb in slippery greasy rocks and roots. Was recently stunned when I broke a spoke in my rear 29er wheel and had to swap in the stock 27.5 inch wheel with 2.8 butcher tire. Suddenly the back end was sliding out on me everywhere compared to the Maxxis. This was even at extremely low tire pressures.

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

There will never be a better tire combo than Maxxis 2.6 DHF and DHR!!!

holds everywhere and doesn't roll on the rim like 2.8s

as for rolling resistance....who cares!!! it's an ebike!

 

[Tibo]

Just bought a Levo 2018 and fitted it with a new tyre from Schwalbe, don't know if it has been presented here.

Schwalbe Magic Mary 2.6 (here you start thinking you already know this tyre...) SuperGravity Soft (orange).
This combination of the SuperGravity carcass, the soft compound and the MM patern is new !

Less heavy than the DH casing (1.2kg for the SG, 1.4kg for DH), a little less soft than the ultra soft compound. I think it's a very good tyre for an ebike ! As it is very muddy here in Normandy (France), I need this type of pattern and compound (mud, wet roots and rocks). I was ridding Maxxis shorty's on my previous bike last winter. And because of very sharp stone (sylex in french don't know the english word for that), I need a solid tyre, I think the SuperGravity is spot on for me. Fit them on both front and rear wheels. Only one 40km ride with them but vey very happy ! I will do a another feedback after more rides.

A similar Hans Dampf is coming, I will probably fit one at the rear for spring and summer.

Last point, find them for about 40€ in webshop in germany, which good vs Maxxis that are in the 60-80€ range.

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

There will never be a better tire combo than Maxxis 2.6 DHF and DHR!!!

holds everywhere and doesn't roll on the rim like 2.8s

as for rolling resistance....who cares!!! it's an ebike!

Agreed so long as yours arnt warped and deformed like my hans dampf, massive sideways lump on mine, thought the rim was buckled but it was the tire.

 

[khorn]

Please educate me, I have just been in contact with Specialized regarding the fact that it is hard for me to find a decent rear tire that won't rub up against the motor on my 2018 Levo. Specialized is claiming that a WIDER rim will cause the tire to have a higher aspect but my logic says the opposite - Are Specialized right?

Karsten

 

[Gary]

you're both right.

it depends on the actual width you said tyre AND it's tread design.

just run a 2.4/5 and be normal. it's good to be normal

 

[khorn]

you're both right.

it depends on the actual width you said tyre AND it's tread design.

just run a 2.4/5 and be normal. it's good to be normal

Well, I cannot run a 2.4 tire as it will rub.

Karsten

 

[Gary]

Well, I cannot run a 2.4 tire as it will rub.

Karsten

uh?

WTF?

that's ridiculous. where is it rubbing?
are you running a wheelsize it's not designed for like a 29 in a 2.75 frame or something?

 

[khorn]

uh?

WTF?

that's ridiculous. where is it rubbing?
are you running a wheelsize it's not designed for like a 29 in a 2.75 frame or something?

Nope, 2018 Levo with 29” and 34 mm inner width together with Maxxis Ardent 2.4. As a matter of fact I cannot even put the rear axle in as it goes solid up against the lover front triangle......

See post #27 here:
Calling those that are running 29" on their Turbo Levo - EMTB Forums

Karsten
Btw bike is sold as a dual wheel size bike!