Levo Gen 2 Warranty extension & Firmware Update for all 2019/20 Levo/Kenevo with 2.1 motors

[Reap3r]

@Jassu yep, welcome to the lack of clarity on this subject. Fully agree with all you have said, we are waiting for @Specialized Rider Care to comment and hopefully issue instruction to dealers to update FOC, better still comment on a Mission Control option

I’m sure many of us here have electronics that require firmware updates and feel like we could handle this no problem. But that assumes the implementation is even possible.

Things to consider:
1. Does the physical hardware installed have enough memory onboard to transfer the entire firmware file wirelessly (from the app). If no, then I wouldn’t expect a wireless firmware update because a phone connection is not stable enough to incrementally transfer a file like firmware and do it in parts. Something like that needs the whole file sitting there, hence needing it plugged in at the shop (most likely, I don’t know for sure of course)
2. That specialized are making firmware for Brose motor components. Idk who makes that software. Specialized for sure makes the software for the TCU
3. That the security of the software is not easily compromised such that allowing these types of updates in the hands of users could allow for creation black market software
4. Then subsequently, that the software is bulletproof enough to start testing internally and ready to go into THIS update that we just got (in the background for testing) which would later be enabled for everyone through the app once all testing is done. So they would need it to be at least stable enough now, and they seemed pretty busy with other stuff so who knows.

All of that said, I still bought a 2021 levo and am fine to take my bike to the shop for updates, for now. That won’t always be the case but I’d rather they focus on doing the actual updates.

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

@Jassu yep, welcome to the lack of clarity on this subject. Fully agree with all you have said, we are waiting for @Specialized Rider Care to comment and hopefully issue instruction to dealers to update FOC, better still comment on a Mission Control option

Hi @VOOBOY - thanks for the posts on this subject. It is not our intention that riders pay for this update, but you're correct that some stores are (quite fairly) asking how their time will be covered and we're working the admin in the background. We realise that this is frustrating - please bear with us.

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

I’m sure many of us here have electronics that require firmware updates and feel like we could handle this no problem. But that assumes the implementation is even possible.

Things to consider:
1. Does the physical hardware installed have enough memory onboard to transfer the entire firmware file wirelessly (from the app). If no, then I wouldn’t expect a wireless firmware update because a phone connection is not stable enough to incrementally transfer a file like firmware and do it in parts. Something like that needs the whole file sitting there, hence needing it plugged in at the shop (most likely, I don’t know for sure of course)
2. That specialized are making firmware for Brose motor components. Idk who makes that software. Specialized for sure makes the software for the TCU
3. That the security of the software is not easily compromised such that allowing these types of updates in the hands of users could allow for creation black market software
4. Then subsequently, that the software is bulletproof enough to start testing internally and ready to go into THIS update that we just got (in the background for testing) which would later be enabled for everyone through the app once all testing is done. So they would need it to be at least stable enough now, and they seemed pretty busy with other stuff so who knows.

All of that said, I still bought a 2021 levo and am fine to take my bike to the shop for updates, for now. That won’t always be the case but I’d rather they focus on doing the actual updates.

Thanks @Reap3r (bang-on with your 4 pts above, pt1 is why <2018 bikes can't update via the app BTW) and @VOOBOY. Mission Control has the capability to update bikes and we'll continue to test/develop this functionality, however bikes in the field to date weren't all designed/built with this in mind. That means that whilst we can reliably update TCUs (and TCD-w from our Vado range) over the air, the systems architecture simply isn't ready yet to update motors and batteries reliably. The last thing we want to do is to leave any of you with a bricked bike...

We will continue to test and develop here, we don't want to over-promise so are progressing cautiously. As things change we'll keep you informed, we 100% recognise that it is inconvenient to visit a retailer when you could do an update from home.

 

[VOOBOY]

Hi @VOOBOY - thanks for the posts on this subject. It is not our intention that riders pay for this update, but you're correct that some stores are (quite fairly) asking how their time will be covered and we're working the admin in the background. We realise that this is frustrating - please bear with us.

@Specialized Rider Care many thanks for the reply and for looking into this. Frustrating is an understatement for all the members on this forum who are being charged £, $ or Euros by your approved retailers to remedy this issue. We shall await your comments

 

[Jassu]

Hi @VOOBOY - thanks for the posts on this subject. It is not our intention that riders pay for this update, but you're correct that some stores are (quite fairly) asking how their time will be covered and we're working the admin in the background. We realise that this is frustrating - please bear with us.

So you are saying that this will be free in future? So we should wait on not update yet.

 

[rafaelblu]

Hi @rafaelblu - so very sorry to hear this and our apologies for the trouble. It's the only such case we know about which is why I can speak with confidence (having checked our quality system, we monitor update failures as you'd expect) - our Brazilian support team reached out about this on the day it happened. The motor FW crash was due to an old version of retailer software on the PC being used to make the update. Not the fault of your retailer, but it's a highly unusual case and I apologise that it delayed you picking up your bike. In the background I'll reach out to our team in Brazil to check progress here.

Well, it´s the same feedback the bike shop just gave me this morning. It happens that I also bought a SL and they updated the software before doing on the normal Levo. So a little bit weird ... And the "unlucky" is that they don´t have right now motors on stock. So I´m the sad customer waiting for 2 super expensive bikes to be delivered without any "precise" information. Bike shop is so terrified that preffer don´t delivering the SL without solution on the other bike.

 

[VOOBOY]

So you are saying that this will be free in future? So we should wait on not update yet.

@Jassu seems they are working on it my friend

 

[Reap3r]

So you are saying that this will be free in future? So we should wait on not update yet.

No. If you want this update you’ll need to visit a shop. There is no over the air update function coming in the short term future.

 

[Jassu]

No. If you want this update you’ll need to visit a shop. There is no over the air update function coming in the short term future.

I understood that Specialized is working on the admin side to get info for resellers, that they as the manufacturer are covering the costs for this update. So after that, they are paying - not me.

 

[Jsmithjr732]

@Specialized Rider Care any updates for 2021 owners who have December 2019 motor builds? We can send our serial numbers via PM if needed. I’ve been holding off on the FW update until there’s direction here. Thanks!

 

[VOOBOY]

@Specialized Rider Care any updates for 2021 owners who have December 2019 motor builds? We can send our serial numbers via PM if needed. I’ve been holding off on the FW update

on

@Jsmithjr732 , yep they need to clarify this for customers

 

[Mousepad90]

@Specialized Rider Care any updates for 2021 owners who have December 2019 motor builds? We can send our serial numbers via PM if needed. I’ve been holding off on the FW update

on

@Jsmithjr732 , yep they need to clarify this for customers

@Specialized Rider Care Following this thread, would love an answer as my 2021 also has a December motor.

 

[beutelfuchs]

So I was scared enough that my engine would break again that I did the update. Another 35 bucks for a problem I didn't create, but who cares (well, for sure not spezialized).

Back from the shop I went on a test ride to see what I got. Good news first, I could not feel any lowered power, even when the shop mech prepared me for it.
But after maybe 15min uphill it happened what had to happen, I got the 1x red plus 1x blue bar on the display and the bike went out, so I guess very similar as someone here described it before. Just to make sure, while I had many issues on that bike, I never saw this before.
I was at least lucky in the sense that I could restart the bike and it continued working.
Later I got the same a few more times.
After a while I finally tried the walk assist. And as some already commented, it's rendered absolutely useless. To make it clear, it's not "a bit lower on power", it's totally broken.
If I started to use it the bike barely moved. Then after maybe 20s it suddenly moved for a few seconds before the engine shut down again with the same picture as described above (1x red+blue) bar. This was continuously reproducable and I got it on video so you can see for yourself.
Besides all new issues I could finish the ride, restarting the bike when needed.


So I'm on the third damper (which I had to pay as spezialized was not able to come up with a permanent fix). I'm on the third engine which I'm waiting for to break again every day. I carry many weeks of waiting without being able to ride. Now they announce a fix which I have to pay for and after I do that the bike is only half usable anymore.
Honestly, what the hell is wrong with you spezialized?!

 

[lumpy]

So I was scared enough that my engine would break again that I did the update. Another 35 bucks for a problem I didn't create, but who cares (well, for sure not spezialized).

Back from the shop I went on a test ride to see what I got. Good news first, I could not feel any lowered power, even when the shop mech prepared me for it.
But after maybe 15min uphill it happened what had to happen, I got the 1x red plus 1x blue bar on the display and the bike went out, so I guess very similar as someone here described it before. Just to make sure, while I had many issues on that bike, I never saw this before.
I was at least lucky in the sense that I could restart the bike and it continued working.
Later I got the same a few more times.
After a while I finally tried the walk assist. And as some already commented, it's rendered absolutely useless. To make it clear, it's not "a bit lower on power", it's totally broken.
If I started to use it the bike barely moved. Then after maybe 20s it suddenly moved for a few seconds before the engine shut down again with the same picture as described above (1x red+blue) bar. This was continuously reproducable and I got it on video so you can see for yourself.
Besides all new issues I could finish the ride, restarting the bike when needed.


So I'm on the third damper (which I had to pay as spezialized was not able to come up with a permanent fix). I'm on the third engine which I'm waiting for to break again every day. I carry many weeks of waiting without being able to ride. Now they announce a fix which I have to pay for and after I do that the bike is only half usable anymore.
Honestly, what the hell is wrong with you spezialized?!

I got the update last week and now it's in the shop with the exact same red and blue flashing lights as you. Happened 8 times yesterday on a short 10 mile ride. Again 200 feet from the shop this morning as I was bringing it in. At first I thought it was just a coincidence that perhaps the speed sensor cable was failing, but if it's happening to you too, I can't help but wonder if it's the new update ....

Mine is a 2019 Expert on it's second motor. I don't think it's the motor as it works great until the power cuts and I get the red and blue

 

[Fiord]

@Specialized Rider Care any updates for 2021 owners who have December 2019 motor builds? We can send our serial numbers via PM if needed. I’ve been holding off on the FW update



@Specialized Rider Care Following this thread, would love an answer as my 2021 also has a December motor.

Yes I am in the same situation too with a December 2019 motor in a 2021MY bike.

 

[RodC]

I asked my local Specialized dealer, where I bought my bike, and ask him when can i take the bike to update the firmware....

he replied no need, because I got the bike in April so it has already the latest revision!!!!

I had to explain him about this new firmware and the 4 years warranty. He had no idea!!!!!!
No response yet from him!

 

[VOOBOY]

So I was scared enough that my engine would break again that I did the update. Another 35 bucks for a problem I didn't create, but who cares (well, for sure not spezialized).

Back from the shop I went on a test ride to see what I got. Good news first, I could not feel any lowered power, even when the shop mech prepared me for it.
But after maybe 15min uphill it happened what had to happen, I got the 1x red plus 1x blue bar on the display and the bike went out, so I guess very similar as someone here described it before. Just to make sure, while I had many issues on that bike, I never saw this before.
I was at least lucky in the sense that I could restart the bike and it continued working.
Later I got the same a few more times.
After a while I finally tried the walk assist. And as some already commented, it's rendered absolutely useless. To make it clear, it's not "a bit lower on power", it's totally broken.
If I started to use it the bike barely moved. Then after maybe 20s it suddenly moved for a few seconds before the engine shut down again with the same picture as described above (1x red+blue) bar. This was continuously reproducable and I got it on video so you can see for yourself.
Besides all new issues I could finish the ride, restarting the bike when needed.


So I'm on the third damper (which I had to pay as spezialized was not able to come up with a permanent fix). I'm on the third engine which I'm waiting for to break again every day. I carry many weeks of waiting without being able to ride. Now they announce a fix which I have to pay for and after I do that the bike is only half usable anymore.
Honestly, what the hell is wrong with you spezialized?!

@beutelfuchs , I feel for you mate, there is no scenario where this type of product performance is, in any way, acceptable. I own 2 Levos and whilst I think they are a brilliant bike you only have to visit this forum to realise the major issues people are having with the engines. Extending a warranty is a positive move from Specialized but the frustration users will have from bikes potentially being in the shop getting fixed is huge. Looks like you will be having to take another trip back to fix something that's not your fault. Competitor brands must be reading these posts smiling at all the potential new customers coming their way at new bike time. As E bike customers all we want is a bike that's great to ride and reliable, Spesh have nailed the first part but failed the second.......worrying!

 

[Strive77]

I’ve got a 2021 levo on order but I’m getting increasingly worried that I’ll end up with a bike that has an old 2019 motor installed AND that the fw update hasn’t completely fixed the problem.
There doesn’t seem to be a quick response to the posts regarding the new Levos with a 2019 motor which to me isn’t good, nor does the having to reset the motor several times on a ride.
The last thing needed as I’m sure everyone will agree is back and forth to the bike shop.
Ive got a nagging in my head telling me to pull the plug?

 

[VOOBOY]

I asked my local Specialized dealer, where I bought my bike, and ask him when can i take the bike to update the firmware....

he replied no need, because I got the bike in April so it has already the latest revision!!!!

I had to explain him about this new firmware and the 4 years warranty. He had no idea!!!!!!
No response yet from him!

@RodC , as I’ve already commented on this forum, limited clear instruction from Spesh to approved dealers on this update, mainly connected with costs and who pays....but dealers not knowing about it.....not good at all

 

[VOOBOY]

I’ve got a 2021 levo on order but I’m getting increasingly worried that I’ll end up with a bike that has an old 2019 motor installed AND that the fw update hasn’t completely fixed the problem.
There doesn’t seem to be a quick response to the posts regarding the new Levos with a 2019 motor which to me isn’t good, nor does the having to reset the motor several times on a ride.
The last thing needed as I’m sure everyone will agree is back and forth to the bike shop.
Ive got a nagging in my head telling me to pull the plug?

@Strive77 fully understand mate, reliability is a huge issue. You have to be confident in your chosen product. Most Levo and Kenevo owners with 2019/2020 bikes who visit this forum regardless of admitting it on here will have the motor issues on their minds when they go out for a ride and that’s not a healthy mindset to be in with a product.
I have 2 2019 Levo’s and although I’ve not had any issues since purchase (possibly because of the type of riding I do) it is certainly on my mind when I take the bikes out. Don’t get me wrong, they are great bikes when all is working but you only have to read these forums to get a feel for the issues people are having and that’s not good. At the end of the day it’s your decision mate

 

[nasamorpheus]

@beutelfuchs , I feel for you mate, there is no scenario where this type of product performance is, in any way, acceptable. I own 2 Levos and whilst I think they are a brilliant bike you only have to visit this forum to realize the major issues people are having with the engines. Extending a warranty is a positive move from Specialized but the frustration users will have from bikes potentially being in the shop getting fixed is huge. Looks like you will be having to take another trip back to fix something that's not your fault. Competitor brands must be reading these posts smiling at all the potential new customers coming their way at new bike time. As E bike customers all we want is a bike that's great to ride and reliable, Spesh have nailed the first part but failed the second.......worrying!

I agree, I would only buy regular MTB from Specialized, they are great. I got my ebike CUBE for a birthday present from my wife and I am glad she didnt choose specialized although she was thinking about . And when I read this forum even I have motor issues in my mind when i go driving and I drive Bosch cx gen 4.

 

[MrSimmo]

I’ve got a 2021 levo on order but I’m getting increasingly worried that I’ll end up with a bike that has an old 2019 motor installed AND that the fw update hasn’t completely fixed the problem.
There doesn’t seem to be a quick response to the posts regarding the new Levos with a 2019 motor which to me isn’t good, nor does the having to reset the motor several times on a ride.
The last thing needed as I’m sure everyone will agree is back and forth to the bike shop.
Ive got a nagging in my head telling me to pull the plug?

I asked a few people offline to look at the motor dates on their/friends/families/contacts Levos:

Asked 54 people

45 have MY2020 with motors from 2019 (31 have had 1 or more replacements) fw 6.x
6 have MY2020 with motors from 2020 (5 of these are replacement motors) fw 6.x (couldn't tell me the build dates of original motors)
0 have firmware 7.3.6

3 have MY2021 with motors from 2019 (no replacements) - fw 6.x
1 has MY2021 with motor from 2020 (not a replacement) - fw 7.3.6
1 has firmware 7.3.6

**EDIT** dont use these as official stats, just what I found from asking around!

Shows another stat - a lot of people with ebikes dont mind at all (in fact proactively do it) going straight into Mission Control to check out tech stats of their bikes! With my old bike, if you asked someone about a component, they'd say something like "um its 11 speed, think its sram"

 

[VOOBOY]

I asked a few people offline to look at the motor dates on their/friends/families/contacts Levos:

Asked 54 people

45 have MY2020 with motors from 2019 (31 have had 1 or more replacements) fw 6.x
6 have MY2020 with motors from 2020 (5 of these are replacement motors) fw 6.x (couldn't tell me the build dates of original motors)
0 have firmware 7.3.6

3 have MY2021 with motors from 2019 (no replacements) - fw 6.x
1 has MY2021 with motor from 2020 (not a replacement) - fw 7.3.6
1 has firmware 7.3.6

**EDIT** dont use these as official stats, just what I found from asking around!

@MrSimmo good info but 31 replacements from 45 motors ....that’s worryingly bad

 

[MrSimmo]

@MrSimmo good info but 31 replacements from 45 motors ....that’s worryingly bad

Cheers, The stats are quite lacking tbh, I didnt get info around where and how they rode the bikes or mileage etc but it gave me food for thought.

 

[Mikerb]

A couple of observations from this extensive thread. Firstly it appears people are automatically conflating what sound like electrical problems with the firmware update.....whilst that may be the case you would expect any bug in the firmware update to affect everyone.
Second it seems pretty clear from the motor upgrades that have been made that a key reason for belt and sprag failure is the use of too high gearing especially in higher power settings. Whilst the firmware change has at least smoothed the motors power response in tbose scenarios I do not see much evidence of riders acknowledging tbat they need to avoid doing that and maintain a higher cadence.
Lastly I have always found walk assist works well PROVIDED the correct gear for the conditions is selected. If power/ speed has been reduced it probably now needs a lower gear than before.

 

[ScratG]

I have 2 pcs. Tubo Levo Comp 2021 for my wife and me ordered and they should be delivered in 2 weeks.
So far nothing signed and paid for.

When I read this thread, I start to think whether this is the right decision.
The dealer told me that the 21er models have a reinforced belt.
Nevertheless, I'm wondering as of which engine production date the reinforcements have been implemented.

 

[VOOBOY]

A couple of observations from this extensive thread. Firstly it appears people are automatically conflating what sound like electrical problems with the firmware update.....whilst that may be the case you would expect any bug in the firmware update to affect everyone.
Second it seems pretty clear from the motor upgrades that have been made that a key reason for belt and sprag failure is the use of too high gearing especially in higher power settings. Whilst the firmware change has at least smoothed the motors power response in tbose scenarios I do not see much evidence of riders acknowledging tbat they need to avoid doing that and maintain a higher cadence.
Lastly I have always found walk assist works well PROVIDED the correct gear for the conditions is selected. If power/ speed has been reduced it probably now needs a lower gear than before.

@Mikerb users are free to choose whatever gear and assistance mode they want and, quiet rightly, expect their bike to perform. Obviously there are optimum parameters to get the best out of the bike but deviating from these should not result in failure of components. As a mechanical design engineer by trade I can tell you that the appropriate factor of safety should be applied at design stage to ensure, when the highest load is applied, the product deals with it thus ensuring it is fit for purpose.

 

[RodC]

@RodC , as I’ve already commented on this forum, limited clear instruction from Spesh to approved dealers on this update, mainly connected with costs and who pays....but dealers not knowing about it.....not good at all

Note that this is an exclusive specialized dealer! I’m not sure if its specialized fault with bad communication or the guys there with their lack of initiative. I’ll blame both

 

[VOOBOY]

I have 2 pcs. Tubo Levo Comp 2021 for my wife and me ordered and they should be delivered in 2 weeks.
So far nothing signed and paid for.

When I read this thread, I start to think whether this is the right decision.
The dealer told me that the 21er models have a reinforced belt.
Nevertheless, I'm wondering as of which engine production date the reinforcements have been implemented.

@ScratG yep some guidance on that would be beneficial to all, @Specialized Rider Care may be able to advise a definite manufacturing date although they have stated that all hardware improvements are valid for MY 2021 bikes. I would certainly expect these bikes to be built with 2020 motors but as some have commented on this thread they have 2021 bikes with 2019 dated motors.
The worry would be for users with 18/early 19 motors (i.e most of us on here). We have already been advised that the hardware improvements are stronger belt, sprag clutch and other strength/reliability improvements. The only real reason you make things stronger is that your initial efforts were not strong enough. It is more often than not in response common failure patterns. Think about it, if there were no instances of belt failures there would be no need to improve to a stronger belt, why would you?. As an engineer perhaps I look at it in a more analytical way but the strength improvements made to that whole area of the motor on the latest incarnations certainly, in my mind, questions if the earlier motors were, let's say flawed in design.

 

[Bigtuna00]

Exactly. Not to say our bikes shouldn’t be unreliable, but you need to have a certain level of understanding of what to do / not do. I read earlier that someone uses turbo most / all of the time. Higher levels of power all the time would impact any machine over time. If someone is in the high revs in their car all the time, no one would be surprised if engine issues occurred sooner vs later.

Not saying running in turbo all the time is bad. It’s probably a lot of fun. But I would expect higher wear and tear on the motor and other internal parts.

This is a poor analogy for the current situation. My car's engine is serviceable. The Levo motor is not. I can upgrade my car's engine with sturdier parts (and without voiding the warranty, in the US at least).

Specialized splashes "4X you" all over their marketing. If the bike can only handle "3X you" it should be sold as such.

I am an "all turbo, all the time" rider myself. I was never told I can't do this. I do ride a high cadence; frankly I never understood the cadence argument because the bike doesn't provide power if your cadence is too low and feels like crap. Either way I expect the bike to have adequate safeguards so it doesn't catastrophically fail in the first year of ownership (let alone in 500 miles like some of the folks on here).

There's a huge difference between "the motor will wear out faster" and "the motor dies in 6 months". To use the (flawed) car analogy, if I drive my car vigorously (and I do), it's still going to last 5-10 years with adequate service. If these short term motor failures are due to riders doing what the bike is marketed to do, it's a poor design, not the rider's fault.