Wahoo computer compatibility with Levo/Kenevo

[AndyDuk]

 

[AndyDuk]

Ahhh so you may need to switch off the Fake Sensor . It gave issues with the Garmin and eBike Field App. Let me know how the LEV Sensor goes . The only watch out will be calculating the wheel circumference see here BikeCalc.com - How to calculate Bicycle Wheel Size

 

[lloydbayliss]

Head into the Elemnt app, Settings, under Sensors hit Set up sensors. With the bike turned on, and the latest version of the Elemnt firmware, it should find a sensor called E-BIKE. When you've got that connected, click into it and there's an option to Set Wheel Circumference. Mine was set to Auto by default. Pretty sure it's similar to when I had the Fake Channel set up to monitor battery percentage.

Re GPS signal, I do a fair bit of riding in forestry and it's very rare for me to have an issue with Endomondo / phone losing GPS. Used Endo for more years than I care to remember now (over god only knows how many phones!) so don't see the problem. Same deal with Strava, which I usually run on my S3 Frontier watch.

Cheers,
Lloyd

 

[lloydbayliss]

Sorry, messages crossed in the ether!

I measure my wheel circumference size the old fashion way by putting a mark on the garage floor with the valve at the bottom, then wheel the bike forward and mark it when it's back at the bottom again, measure between the two marks. That takes into account tyre wall size as well (particularly necessary with plus tyres).

 

[diver]

I’m sure you can fix this just by using a wahoo speed sensor and it maybe why I’m not seeing the issue .

It does not help to add a wahoo Speed Sensor. I also testet that. The actual Speed is always shown right with the Levos Sensor. The Problem is the Average Speed and distance. These 2 Values are Wrong as soon as the Levos Power Sensor is added to the Wahoo.

In the picture below you can see what happens:
As long as the Powersensor is not connected it works fine. As soon as the Powersensor gets connected, the average speed gets to a constant max value. Even if you drive faster for a long time, the average speed do not follow.
Also the cumulated distance gets wrong from that point on.

 

[lloydbayliss]

Sorry to come back to this after so long, but it looks like things have got even worse after the last two firmware updates from Wahoo. Speed and distance are now so far out, the Bolt only reports around 60% of the correct distance (as logged by Endomondo/phone and Fitbit).

I was wondering about your thoughts on the Powersensor. Do you know if there's a way to disable that in isolation, or would the only answer be to delete the Levo sensor from the Bolt? I've had a dig around in all the settings (MC, Elemnt, Blevo) but haven't found anything.

Changing the wheel circumference doesn't seem to make a difference either. I saw something in another post about changing the movement timings, but again I haven't seen that in any of my strolls around the settings...

Annoyed to hear you don't think the Wahoo speed sensor will help - I've got to the point now where I'm desperate enough to go and buy one :-(

 

[diver]

Sorry to come back to this after so long, but it looks like things have got even worse after the last two firmware updates from Wahoo. Speed and distance are now so far out, the Bolt only reports around 60% of the correct distance (as logged by Endomondo/phone and Fitbit).

I was wondering about your thoughts on the Powersensor. Do you know if there's a way to disable that in isolation, or would the only answer be to delete the Levo sensor from the Bolt? I've had a dig around in all the settings (MC, Elemnt, Blevo) but haven't found anything.

Changing the wheel circumference doesn't seem to make a difference either. I saw something in another post about changing the movement timings, but again I haven't seen that in any of my strolls around the settings...

Annoyed to hear you don't think the Wahoo speed sensor will help - I've got to the point now where I'm desperate enough to go and buy one :-(

as long as the powermeter was connected the distance and average speed stayed wrong. Even with the additionaly added wahoo speed sensor. The deviation depends on how fast you go. In my case distance would be correct if my real average speed is about 17km/h. If i go faster the wahoo seems still integrate the 17km/h as shown in the picture 2 posts above even if i ride 25km/h.

If you upload your ride to Komoot, the correct distance is shown as komoot corrects your distance with gps data. In Strava you can overwrite your distance manualy with gps data.

 

[dfgomez]

Hi,
i am using the Wahoo Bolt with the 2018s Levo with Levos own sensors.

Displaying speed, cadence, Hearthrate and Power works fine.
But the distance and average speed are always wrong.

Anyone else having similar problems or know a workaround?

Greats.d.

Hi. Just got a Levo SL and added the ebike mode to my Bolt. I’m getting assist mode (eco, trail, turbo) and remaining battery. I’m getting some figure for power but seems quite high? How do I know what that figure is? Is it the sum of my power and the motor or what?

 

[Levo_+_Hope]

It's still the same issue as of November 2019 with a Wahoo and 2019 Levo sensors.
Diver is correct of course, Wahoo app sees a powered-on Levo as a POWERMETER device.
But it clearly gets cadence and speed data from it also, even they are not shown. I think the Spesh uses a correction factor in the rear wheel rotation sensor that Wahoo is not interpreting or correcting. I think this would be a simple software fix to be honest, for Wahoo.
If you upload to STRAVA then distance is out by almost x2. So then the average speed is almost double also. It's clearly a speed signal issue - Strava takes wheel speed sensor data OVER AND ABOVE the GPS speed data if it exists in the file. The same Wahoo file dumped to other apps like KOMOOT show it all correct. Perhaps Komoot only uses the GPS data? Or KOMOOT ignores the suspect wheel speed data, who knows.

how have you got round this issue mate?

 

[DreamensioN]

Sorry to come back to this after so long, but it looks like things have got even worse after the last two firmware updates from Wahoo. Speed and distance are now so far out, the Bolt only reports around 60% of the correct distance (as logged by Endomondo/phone and Fitbit).

What is your wheel circumference set to in the Mission Control app?

 

[DreamensioN]

For those of you who are using a Wahoo Elmnt/Bolt/Roam - I noticed here it shows "E-bike zones" in particular reference to the Turbo Levo

Everything You Need to Know About ELEMNT LEV Integration

What is ANT+ LEV compatibility? - LEV stands for Light Electric Vehicle, and ANT+ LEV allows specific GIANT and Specialized E-Bikes with additional pairing capabilities to broadcast data to other d...

support.wahoofitness.com

I've got a Wahoo Bolt paired up with my Turbo Levo - but... how do I display those bars? I get that the image shows the new Roam, but the wording on that site makes it sound like this capability is across all the Wahoo devices.

Anybody else got this to work and if so, where is the setting to add to the page?

 

[lloydbayliss]

What is your wheel circumference set to in the Mission Control app?

Can't remember the exact figure off the top of my head, but I set it to the actual circumference, measured the old fashioned way by putting marks on the floor and rolling forward one full wheel turn. Using 27.5 x 2.8 plus tyres btw...

 

[lloydbayliss]

For those of you who are using a Wahoo Elmnt/Bolt/Roam - I noticed here it shows "E-bike zones" in particular reference to the Turbo Levo

Everything You Need to Know About ELEMNT LEV Integration

What is ANT+ LEV compatibility? - LEV stands for Light Electric Vehicle, and ANT+ LEV allows specific GIANT and Specialized E-Bikes with additional pairing capabilities to broadcast data to other d...

support.wahoofitness.com

View attachment 38972

I've got a Wahoo Bolt paired up with my Turbo Levo - but... how do I display those bars? I get that the image shows the new Roam, but the wording on that site makes it sound like this capability is across all the Wahoo devices.

Anybody else got this to work and if so, where is the setting to add to the page?

As far as I know, you can only see those zones on your device in the ride summary after finishing your ride. I usually skip past this screen when I'm done as I just need to go collapse somewhere! Extensive zone data is available in the companion app and Strava when uploaded.

 

[DreamensioN]

As far as I know, you can only see those zones on your device in the ride summary after finishing your ride.

Ohh... yep - I just found it. Thanks! It can be viewed in the ride history in the Wahoo app. Cheers.

Can't remember the exact figure off the top of my head, but I set it to the actual circumference, measured the old fashioned way by putting marks on the floor and rolling forward one full wheel turn. Using 27.5 x 2.8 plus tyres btw...

Interesting. The reason I asked it was because my LBS did a little change to my wheel circumference to get me a little more speed (just past the 25kph limit). I run 29ers, and I think they set my wheels to 27.5". So my assistance cut-off is like 26.5kph now (instead of 25kph).

However, I noticed when the Bolt is tracking distance it is WAY out. The longer the ride the less it is out by, but it's a huge percentage. For example... I did 86km, Wahoo recorded 74km (15% difference). I know I did 86km because that is the distance between the 2 locations I rode, and strava corrected the distance to 86.6km. Another ride...Wahoo recorded 20km, actual was 25km (20% difference). The largest percentage difference was I did a 17km ride and wahoo only recorded 12km (35% difference).

Now I think my wheels are suppose to be 2300mm in mission control, but are set to 2100mm. However I'm not convinced that this little change equates to such a large difference in distance tracked by the Wahoo Bolt. And I know it is to do with where the Bolt is getting its data from. I use the same Bolt on my road bike (with wahoo speed & cadence sensor) and it is dead accurate to within 200-300m of a strava correction regardless of ride distance. And I do regular 25-100km rides on the roadie.

So I was going to ask the LBS to change my wheel diameter back to 2300mm (or whatever the correct is for 29ers), but I don't think this will totally solve the issue.

 

[lloydbayliss]

Ohh... yep - I just found it. Thanks! It can be viewed in the ride history in the Wahoo app. Cheers.



Interesting. The reason I asked it was because my LBS did a little change to my wheel circumference to get me a little more speed (just past the 25kph limit). I run 29ers, and I think they set my wheels to 27.5". So my assistance cut-off is like 26.5kph now (instead of 25kph).

However, I noticed when the Bolt is tracking distance it is WAY out. The longer the ride the less it is out by, but it's a huge percentage. For example... I did 86km, Wahoo recorded 74km (15% difference). I know I did 86km because that is the distance between the 2 locations I rode, and strava corrected the distance to 86.6km. Another ride...Wahoo recorded 20km, actual was 25km (20% difference). The largest percentage difference was I did a 17km ride and wahoo only recorded 12km (35% difference).

Now I think my wheels are suppose to be 2300mm in mission control, but are set to 2100mm. However I'm not convinced that this little change equates to such a large difference in distance tracked by the Wahoo Bolt. And I know it is to do with where the Bolt is getting its data from. I use the same Bolt on my road bike (with wahoo speed & cadence sensor) and it is dead accurate to within 200-300m of a strava correction regardless of ride distance. And I do regular 25-100km rides on the roadie.

So I was going to ask the LBS to change my wheel diameter back to 2300mm (or whatever the correct is for 29ers), but I don't think this will totally solve the issue.

Yep, that's the problem explained in detail right there! I've raised a couple of calls with Wahoo around this and their stock answer is that the Bolt is getting data from the Levo, so it's not their problem. I pointed out that the device is receiving and logging accurate GPS data all the time, it's just choosing to ignore it when it senses another source, so I asked if they could implement a simple choice in the settings to force the Bolt to always use (and display) GPS data, regardless of other sensors it finds, but again, the stock answer was no. Really frustrating, as buying a GPS computer, I would expect to be able to use GPS data. Very, very disappointing.

To try and get around the issue, I eventually bought a Wahoo RPM wheel sensor (for about 30 quid UK). That usually makes for good distance data, but it still gets confused sometimes (I think it may have something to do with the order in which it finds the sensors, but not sure).

Very disappointed with Wahoo's responses to this problem. I've never tried any other GPS computer, so it may be a common theme (using sensor data over GPS data), but it must surely be a simple task to offer a choice.

Oh, and another get-out clause they've used with me is that only the 2019 and above Levos are guaranteed compatible (I have a 2018 model). That could be a bit of arse covering to be honest...

 

[diver]

Yep, that's the problem explained in detail right there! I've raised a couple of calls with Wahoo around this and their stock answer is that the Bolt is getting data from the Levo, so it's not their problem. I pointed out that the device is receiving and logging accurate GPS data all the time, it's just choosing to ignore it when it senses another source, so I asked if they could implement a simple choice in the settings to force the Bolt to always use (and display) GPS data, regardless of other sensors it finds, but again, the stock answer was no. Really frustrating, as buying a GPS computer, I would expect to be able to use GPS data. Very, very disappointing.

To try and get around the issue, I eventually bought a Wahoo RPM wheel sensor (for about 30 quid UK). That usually makes for good distance data, but it still gets confused sometimes (I think it may have something to do with the order in which it finds the sensors, but not sure).

Very disappointed with Wahoo's responses to this problem. I've never tried any other GPS computer, so it may be a common theme (using sensor data over GPS data), but it must surely be a simple task to offer a choice.

Oh, and another get-out clause they've used with me is that only the 2019 and above Levos are guaranteed compatible (I have a 2018 model). That could be a bit of arse covering to be honest...

You get the wrong distance when the bolt uses speed from its own sensor "e-bike".
After starting the wahoo or the levo it always takes the speed data from the sensor "e-bike" even if you have an additional Wahoo Speed Sensor connected.

The only way i found to get correct values for distance and average speed is to start levo and bolt and then remove and add the wahoo speed sensor from the wahoo. After that, speed data is taken from the Wahoo speed sensor until you turn bike or the wahoo off.

To Test this mount the Speed Sensor on the front wheel, so you can check which data is used by just spinning the front wheel or the back wheel as the speed sensor from the Levo is mounted at the back wheel.


Support told me that they are seeing this problem more and more by ebikes with altered/unlocked firmware.

 

[lloydbayliss]

You get the wrong distance when the bolt uses speed from its own sensor "e-bike".
After starting the wahoo or the levo it always takes the speed data from the sensor "e-bike" even if you have an additional Wahoo Speed Sensor connected.

The only way i found to get correct values for distance and average speed is to start levo and bolt and then remove and add the wahoo speed sensor from the wahoo. After that, speed data is taken from the Wahoo speed sensor until you turn bike or the wahoo off.

To Test this mount the Speed Sensor on the front wheel, so you can check which data is used by just spinning the front wheel or the back wheel as the speed sensor from the Levo is mounted at the back wheel.


Support told me that they are seeing this problem more and more by ebikes with altered/unlocked firmware.

Thanks Diver, good advice. Had another strange experience on a longish ride yesterday, seemed to be correct for a while but was definitely out towards the end of the ride. Wondering whether the Bolt lost connection with the wheel sensor when we were stopped for a while and just used the Levo data for the rest of the ride. Really is unacceptable for a device costing a pretty penny.

Hopefully, if they're seeing more issues like this, they'll implement a switch to force the Bolt to use GPS. Can't believe that's not an option by default (as you might have noticed!)

 

[DreamensioN]

Ok so I have collected some data, and the hack @diver mentioned worked perfectly. Here are my findings and what I did.

GPS Unit: Wahoo Bolt (latest Sep 1st 2020 firmware)

Road Bike: Wahoo Speed & Cadence sensors , wheels = 700c x 26
Analogue MTB: Magellan Cadence & Speed Sensors (old magnet on the spoke style), wheels = 29 x 2.3" front & rear
Turbo Levo: Whatever it uses, and then added a Wahoo Speed sensor for the final experiment, wheels = 29 x 2.6" (front), 29x 2.3" (rear)

For the sake of keeping numbers consistent, I will compare with the strava corrected distance. Both the Road bike and Analogue MTB were within 100m of each other, and strava corrected it to 5.3km both times. So lets take 5.3km as the actual distance.


First lap of the local street was on the Road Bike to set the baseline.
Recorded Distance = 5.4km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 1.8%

Second lap of the local streets was on the analogue MTB
Recorded Distance = 5.5km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 3.7%

Turbo Levo using Wahoo and the "EBike" sensor (wheel circumference is 2100mm in mission control)
Recorded Distance = 3.1km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 52.3%

Turbo Levo using Wahoo and "EBike" sensor, (but wheel circumference changed to 2300mm in Wahoo app for the EBike sensor)
Recorded Distance = 4.4km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 18%

Turbo Levo using only Mission Control (phone is Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ 5G) Note: Wheel Circumference is 2100mm in mission control
Recorded Distance = 4.96km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 6%

Turbo Levo using Wahoo & Wahoo Sensor using the trick @diver mentioned
Recorded Distance = 5.3km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 0%


So there you have it. Something seriously wrong with the way data is collected from the bike by the Wahoo Bolt. I would say the error with Mission Control is directly related to me actually running 29ers, but having Mission Control set to 2100mm (27.5") wheels. The difference in wheel size is 6%, and that is the difference in distance calculated - so that seems in line with expectation.

Good to know that there is a work around to get the accurate data, but it is SUPER annoying having to forget the sensor then re-add it. It's ok if you're just doing one ride but if you're going for a long ride with breaks, and you park the bike - the Wahoo speed sensor will go to sleep. You then need to re-pair it again if you want to keep your accurate data.

Hopefully Wahoo fixes this or does something where you can preference a speed sensor.

 

[lloydbayliss]

Ok so I have collected some data, and the hack @diver mentioned worked perfectly. Here are my findings and what I did.

GPS Unit: Wahoo Bolt (latest Sep 1st 2020 firmware)

Road Bike: Wahoo Speed & Cadence sensors , wheels = 700c x 26
Analogue MTB: Magellan Cadence & Speed Sensors (old magnet on the spoke style), wheels = 29 x 2.3" front & rear
Turbo Levo: Whatever it uses, and then added a Wahoo Speed sensor for the final experiment, wheels = 29 x 2.6" (front), 29x 2.3" (rear)

For the sake of keeping numbers consistent, I will compare with the strava corrected distance. Both the Road bike and Analogue MTB were within 100m of each other, and strava corrected it to 5.3km both times. So lets take 5.3km as the actual distance.


First lap of the local street was on the Road Bike to set the baseline.
Recorded Distance = 5.4km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 1.8%

Second lap of the local streets was on the analogue MTB
Recorded Distance = 5.5km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 3.7%

Turbo Levo using Wahoo and the "EBike" sensor (wheel circumference is 2100mm in mission control)
Recorded Distance = 3.1km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 52.3%

Turbo Levo using Wahoo and "EBike" sensor, (but wheel circumference changed to 2300mm in Wahoo app for the EBike sensor)
Recorded Distance = 4.4km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 18%

Turbo Levo using only Mission Control (phone is Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ 5G) Note: Wheel Circumference is 2100mm in mission control
Recorded Distance = 4.96km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 6%

Turbo Levo using Wahoo & Wahoo Sensor using the trick @diver mentioned
Recorded Distance = 5.3km
Strava Corrected = 5.3km
Difference = 0%


So there you have it. Something seriously wrong with the way data is collected from the bike by the Wahoo Bolt. I would say the error with Mission Control is directly related to me actually running 29ers, but having Mission Control set to 2100mm (27.5") wheels. The difference in wheel size is 6%, and that is the difference in distance calculated - so that seems in line with expectation.

Good to know that there is a work around to get the accurate data, but it is SUPER annoying having to forget the sensor then re-add it. It's ok if you're just doing one ride but if you're going for a long ride with breaks, and you park the bike - the Wahoo speed sensor will go to sleep. You then need to re-pair it again if you want to keep your accurate data.

Hopefully Wahoo fixes this or does something where you can preference a speed sensor.

Excellent work, thanks for the back to back, black and white comparison. I think your findings pretty much match mine (gathered via different methods) and shows Wahoo really have dropped the ball here.

 

[DreamensioN]

Ok so I've got an update.....

Bike went in for it's first complimentary service last week, and while the bike was in I got them to change my wheel diameter to 2326mm. A google search seems to show this is the universally accepted wheel circumference of a 29x2.3" wheel. Keep in mind previously configured wheel circumference was 2100mm (27.5").

Since the LBS changed it to 2326mm, the Wahoo Bolt has been spot on with the distance recording.

I just rode the same local loop as I did with my previous tests before (2 posts above). On those tests, my analogue MTB with 29ers using older sensors measured 5.5km. My Turbo Levo using the Wahoo sensor (with automatic wheel circumference detection) measured 5.3km (the same as a Strava corrected distance).

Now with the correct wheel size using only the Turbo Levo built-in sensors, I measured 5.47km both times. This is the same distance as my road bike and my analogue MTB (give or take 30m) - which is within tolerance because I probably didn't ride the *exact* same line each time.

So on that note - I actually consider my issue resolved, and can rely on the bikes built-in sensor to measure distance accurately.

 

[mathiaspap]

Ok so I've got an update.....

Bike went in for it's first complimentary service last week, and while the bike was in I got them to change my wheel diameter to 2326mm. A google search seems to show this is the universally accepted wheel circumference of a 29x2.3" wheel. Keep in mind previously configured wheel circumference was 2100mm (27.5").

Since the LBS changed it to 2326mm, the Wahoo Bolt has been spot on with the distance recording.

I just rode the same local loop as I did with my previous tests before (2 posts above). On those tests, my analogue MTB with 29ers using older sensors measured 5.5km. My Turbo Levo using the Wahoo sensor (with automatic wheel circumference detection) measured 5.3km (the same as a Strava corrected distance).

Now with the correct wheel size using only the Turbo Levo built-in sensors, I measured 5.47km both times. This is the same distance as my road bike and my analogue MTB (give or take 30m) - which is within tolerance because I probably didn't ride the *exact* same line each time.

So on that note - I actually consider my issue resolved, and can rely on the bikes built-in sensor to measure distance accurately.

Hey,

Just ordered my Specialized Creo SL and very excited. I want to pair it to my Wahoo Roam and I came across this thread. So if I got this correct when you pair an ebike with the wahoo, the GPS data is ignored and instead it uses the ebike wheel circumference to calculate distance speed? Does inserting the correct wheel circumference fix the issue, and where do you need to do this? In Mission Control or sensor details of the ebike on the Wahoo? If you do not pair ebike then distance etc should work correctly?

On a separate note, Power. How do you get rider power to be displayed on the Wahoo, is it separate from the ebike sensor? Is there a separate power sensor?