Voima Fork Discussion

[Tankboy]

Ahh coolio your making progress then, the EXT fork looks nuts. The one upgrade I'd like to do is bin the air shock on the Voima and get a coil EXT with HBC

Yeah, who decided that DH frames need a 150mm axle but an 'enduro' frame needs 148mm, why not the same???? Putting a 12 speed and dropper post on proper DH bike would be kinda useful?! Used to have a Rohloff 14 speed hub on my DH bike back in the day, really good just fecking heavy!

 

[NickyTee]

Yesterday, I visited Mojo Rising. Initially, I wanted to see if their MORC 40 drop crowns would help with my Fox-49-arch-hits-the-Voima-headtube problem.

I had already gained around 3mm clearance by fitting a Works Components +5mm reach adjust headset. Thanks to @Dirtnvert for the idea.

It turns out that the MORC crowns didn’t offer me any further clearance. I was a bit gutted, because they’re lovely pieces of machining. However, Chris P worked his magic, finding just enough room with my existing Fox crowns to clear the fork seals by a few mm. He also hooked me up with a used set of Fox 40 crowns of the same age, since my steerer tube was also a few mm too short for safety at the limit. My Fox 49 is now safe and ready to ride.

Jack had built an EXT E-Storia for me, based on email chat earlier in the week. The shock is fitted with a 600lb spring, and I also took away a 575lb spring for sloppy winter riding. The guys took great care in fitting the shock to my frame - brilliant!

Thanks to both Chris and Jack for their amazing work yesterday. It’s always good to talk to experts in their field, and they’re super-nice guys with it.

 

[MarPec]

Do you think it is possible to fit a Fox 40 2022 29" fork on the Voima K2 with the original headset (CaneCreek Forty)?

As one of you already mentioned, Fox recommends a total headtube stack height of 146.5mm.
In any case, thank you for your discussions in this thread, it has already allowed me to avoid buying the Dorado (sadly)!

 

[Onetime]

Do you think it is possible to fit a Fox 40 2022 29" fork on the Voima K2 with the original headset (CaneCreek Forty)?

As one of you already mentioned, Fox recommends a total headtube stack height of 146.5mm.
In any case, thank you for your discussions in this thread, it has already allowed me to avoid buying the Dorado (sadly)!

I have a 40 on mine, but mine is a K1 And I have a drop crown on it. But I know there are others that have a larger size with a 40 mounted with a drop crown also. As to your other question, my bar is a 40mm rise connected to a 10mm direct mount stem.

 

[Deleted member 9685]

Do you think it is possible to fit a Fox 40 2022 29" fork on the Voima K2 with the original headset (CaneCreek Forty)?

As one of you already mentioned, Fox recommends a total headtube stack height of 146.5mm.
In any case, thank you for your discussions in this thread, it has already allowed me to avoid buying the Dorado (sadly)!

The morc crown should make this just fine.

 

[MarPec]

The morc crown should make this just fine.

You're right, maybe it could work.

And in the meantime I have found another solution: it looks like Ruelzman Suspension offer a great CNC machined drop crown for the dorado that allows 150mm crown-to-crown, all for an acceptable price!

 

[NickyTee]

The morc crown should make this just fine.

@MarPec - here's a quick precis of fitting a 2019 Fox 49 to a Voima K4, if it helps? Arch hits headtube on full compression. Swapped Chris King headset for Works Components +5mm reach adjust, this gave around 2mm clearance. Enough, most likely, but I wasn't comfortable with it. TF Tuned to the rescue, they fitted a 2021 lower with the forward-leaning arch. Plenty of clearance now and my fork is now black, not orange.

I visited Mojo with the intention of buying their MORC crowns, but they didn't gain me any real estate in terms of fitting the vertical constraints. They're the same dimensions of the Fox crowns I already have - that's a drop upper crown. I "borrowed" a few mm from below the bottom crown, such that on full bottom-out, the seals clear the lower crown by about 1mm. I strongly suggest that you do not do this. I am simply telling you what I did with the aid of the Mojo guys. Also picked up an EXT E-Storia while I was there. Bike build is still waiting on an Onyx rear hub....

I would say that the Works Components isn't the lowest-stack headset available, but that's probably the easiest/cheapest place you can gain a few precious mm to play with. Earlier in this thread, @Tankboy posted some very useful pictures showing headset stacks.

....or buy a Dorado

 

[Deleted member 9685]

Or just go Öhlins. Plenty of room.

 

[cozzy]

The geometron g1 owners with 150mm headtubes use riesse(?) aftermarket crowns.

 

[MarPec]

Thank you very much @NickyTee for this very useful information!

If I understand correctly, a fox 40 2022 should just about pass (given the arch that is more forward than the 2019 model) provided I choose a very very flat headset.

I'm still discussing it tonight with my friends, but I think my choice is going to be... the Dorado
It looks good and still saves me a few hundreds Swiss francs compared to the 40.

Thanks also @BAMBAMODA for the photo of the ohlin. Unfortunately it would put me over the symbolic 10k Swiss Francs (about 10kUSD) threshold... which is getting hard to accept.

 

[Lightme]

Mullet with a fox 40. You know it makes sense.
EDIT Although you need a very low stack headset to fit a 40.

Thanks! Just ordered a Fox 40. Can I ask what headset you used? Trying to get all my components together for the build.

 

[Onetime]

Thanks! Just ordered a Fox 40. Can I ask what headset you used? Trying to get all my components together for the build.

If it’s a 1 1/8 straight steerer tube 40, then you need a zs44 for the top and a zs56 1 1/8 for the bottom.

 

[Lightme]

Thank you!

 

[cozzy]

Thanks! Just ordered a Fox 40. Can I ask what headset you used? Trying to get all my components together for the build.

I haven't bought the frame yet. Only the fork.
The 2022 29" 40 has a max stack height of 146.5mm.
The k2 upwards voima frame has a 140mm headtube, so you only have 6.5mm for the headset to stick out.
If not using a mudguard you can increase 40 stack to about 154mm without the tyre or seals hitting the lower crown.
So do ensure you buy a headset that claims it's low profile, not any old one.

 

[Lightme]

I haven't bought the frame yet. Only the fork.
The 2022 29" 40 has a max stack height of 146.5mm.
The k2 upwards voima frame has a 140mm headtube, so you only have 6.5mm for the headset to stick out.
If not using a mudguard you can increase 40 stack to about 154mm without the tyre or seals hitting the lower crown.
So do ensure you buy a headset that claims it's low profile, not any old one.

Appreciate the response, thanks.
I did just buy the Wolf Tooth Geoshift 1 degree angle headset, ZS44/ZS56 as I plan to mullet it. I hope this works out!

Wolf Tooth GeoShift 1 Degree Performance Angle Headset

Adjust the geometry of your bike by changing the head tube angle by 1º with the GeoShift Performance Angle Headset. It allows you to change the head tube angle by -1º to make for a slacker geometry for added stability on fast descents, or by +1º by using the opposite orientation of the headset...

www.mtbdirect.com.au

Edit: states 6mm total stack, so I think I’m good.

 

[cozzy]

Appreciate the response, thanks.
I did just buy the Wolf Tooth Geoshift 1 degree angle headset, ZS44/ZS56 as I plan to mullet it. I hope this works out!

Wolf Tooth GeoShift 1 Degree Performance Angle Headset

Adjust the geometry of your bike by changing the head tube angle by 1º with the GeoShift Performance Angle Headset. It allows you to change the head tube angle by -1º to make for a slacker geometry for added stability on fast descents, or by +1º by using the opposite orientation of the headset...

www.mtbdirect.com.au

Edit: states 6mm total stack, so I think I’m good.

That looks like it would do it. Appears to be 10.9mm total from their table.
So you would need to raise the stanchion through the crown by about 5mm beyond the 137.5mm that fox states is the safe limit.
Also get a crown race that fits directly onto the steerer, not something like the hope reducer crown that still requires a crown race as this will rob you of precious mm.
Of course all this is theory & will be interesting to see how it all fits when you receive your parts.

 

[Lightme]

That looks like it would do it. Appears to be 10.9mm total from their table.
So you would need to raise the stanchion through the crown by about 5mm beyond the 137.5mm that fox states is the safe limit.
Also get a crown race that fits directly onto the steerer, not something like the hope reducer crown that still requires a crown race as this will rob you of precious mm.
Of course all this is theory & will be interesting to see how it all fits when you receive your parts.

Super helpful again, thanks!
This extra 5mm should compensate for the 4mm less a2c vs a Zeb 190. Glad I did get the angle adjust set now. I was thinking I might not have needed, as the a2c decrease may offset the HA slackness given by the smaller rear wheel.

 

[THA]

Super helpful again, thanks!
This extra 5mm should compensate for the 4mm less a2c vs a Zeb 190. Glad I did get the angle adjust set now. I was thinking I might not have needed, as the a2c decrease may offset the HA slackness given by the smaller rear wheel.

Hello,
tuning Zeb for rider sub any weight category has started to turn into headache.
Fork is MY23 Select with MY22 ultimate / 2.1 RC2 damper.

Lower leg pressure turned out too dominant with 30 lbs/in coil, even with Smashpot.
So I solved the spring side issue by turning some custom parts to fit in Boxxer's coil - fork utilizes it's full travel now and fine tuning can be made with differing oil amount and/or adding small air pressure (stock cap utilized in the conversion).

Damper issues became dominant at this phase. Felt like adding HSC makes it slightly better, but at the same time too much HSC. So this sounds a lot like midvalve issue and when I opened up the damper and took some measures, turned out that's certainly the case.

Sad thing is, there is nothing that really can be done with the structure chosen by RS engineers.
I need a proper, shim stack controlled midvalve, or as minimum, midvalve that isn't doing "anything" (like Helm).

Is there any aftermarket rebound piston+rod / piston+rod end (axle) assemblies on the markets, to update Charger 2.1?
I would like to keep HSC, as in 2.1 RC2 implementation it is functional.

I know Avalanche, but I can't have HSC then and it also takes so looong to get one here.
I also wonder if anyone fitted one in 190 mm Zeb, did You get full 190 mm stroke? (why not, isn't that same with Boxxer 38?)

Double crown is out of the question, brings a set of new+old problems.

 

[ebikerider]

Hello,
tuning Zeb for rider sub any weight category has started to turn into headache.
Fork is MY23 Select with MY22 ultimate / 2.1 RC2 damper.

Lower leg pressure turned out too dominant with 30 lbs/in coil, even with Smashpot.
So I solved the spring side issue by turning some custom parts to fit in Boxxer's coil - fork utilizes it's full travel now and fine tuning can be made with differing oil amount and/or adding small air pressure (stock cap utilized in the conversion).

Damper issues became dominant at this phase. Felt like adding HSC makes it slightly better, but at the same time too much HSC. So this sounds a lot like midvalve issue and when I opened up the damper and took some measures, turned out that's certainly the case.

Sad thing is, there is nothing that really can be done with the structure chosen by RS engineers.
I need a proper, shim stack controlled midvalve, or as minimum, midvalve that isn't doing "anything" (like Helm).

Is there any aftermarket rebound piston+rod / piston+rod end (axle) assemblies on the markets, to update Charger 2.1?
I would like to keep HSC, as in 2.1 RC2 implementation it is functional.

I know Avalanche, but I can't have HSC then and it also takes so looong to get one here.
I also wonder if anyone fitted one in 190 mm Zeb, did You get full 190 mm stroke? (why not, isn't that same with Boxxer 38?)

Double crown is out of the question, brings a set of new+old problems.

Avalanche don't recommend the Zeb at 190mm travel, too progressive.

Shockcraft in New Zealand will modify your 2.1 damper to get rid of the harshness you are experiencing but you would need to send the damper to him.

 

[THA]

Avalanche don't recommend the Zeb at 190mm travel, too progressive.

Shockcraft in New Zealand will modify your 2.1 damper to get rid of the harshness you are experiencing but you would need to send the damper to him.

Thank You. I emailed them both. Perhaps source of excess progressiveness comes from the spring side / air spring, that wouldn't be any problem on that case.
Or maybe Shockraft can just send over the modification set / parts needed, time frame I suppose will be several weeks anyway :/
E: Craig from Avalanche responded, volume of the fork is the issue. Since not double crown, air space is quite limited and 15-20 psi pressure build-up should be expected (Smashpot +40 psi - so not so bad, but open cartridge sets some limitations anyway)

 

[Lightme]

@ebikerider I’d love to see where Avalanche said that. I have a 190mm Zeb on my Stamina, I am finding it a bit harsh.

 

[ebikerider]

@ebikerider I’d love to see where Avalanche said that. I have a 190mm Zeb on my Stamina, I am finding it a bit harsh.

Email and ask.

Which damper is in your Zeb? All the charger dampers including the new 3 are harsh over chunk and need modification. Great thing about the Zeb is the chassis.....but generally you need to get the bushings sized and the damper modded to make the package feel good ime.

 

[Lightme]

Email and ask.

Which damper is in your Zeb? All the charger dampers including the new 3 are harsh over chunk and need modification. Great thing about the Zeb is the chassis.....but generally you need to get the bushings sized and the damper modded to make the package feel good ime.

Yes it’s the new Ultimate with the charger 3.

Thanks for the info. I might send it to nsr racing here in Aus.

Have you made modifications to yours?

 

[ebikerider]

Yes it’s the new Ultimate with the charger 3.

Thanks for the info. I might send it to nsr racing here in Aus.

Have you made modifications to yours?

I put a Smashpot in it and then replaced the charger 3 with a tuned 2.1 damper. Huge improvement. Then I did the best thing by selling it and putting a Dorado on. Best decision ever!

 

[Lightme]

I put a Smashpot in it and then replaced the charger 3 with a tuned 2.1 damper. Huge improvement. Then I did the best thing by selling it and putting a Dorado on. Best decision ever!

Ha! I’ll follow those steps in that order!

 

[THA]

Shockcraft answered too, apparently they are modifying OEM parts, so I need either buy another 2.1 RC2 from them, or send the one I have. Based on their website, as well as Avalanche's, high speed spikes is some well known issue with RS.
I did some more math and open bath doesn't seem to fit that well to long-stroke-single-crown forks, unfortunately. Pressure ramp-up, just like in left lower, will be the problem, for at least lighter rider's.
So all the eggs on one basket now...

 

[Onetime]

Thank You. I emailed them both. Perhaps source of excess progressiveness comes from the spring side / air spring, that wouldn't be any problem on that case.
Or maybe Shockraft can just send over the modification set / parts needed, time frame I suppose will be several weeks anyway :/
E: Craig from Avalanche responded, volume of the fork is the issue. Since not double crown, air space is quite limited and 15-20 psi pressure build-up should be expected (Smashpot +40 psi - so not so bad, but open cartridge sets some limitations anyway)

So I think a Vorsprung Secus would be a good solution then for the extra volume that the air spring needs..

 

[THA]

So I think a Vorsprung Secus would be a good solution then for the extra volume that the air spring needs..

I thought about that too, did some math and that extra space is probably enough. Never saw one live, so can't tell how bad it impedes any work with caliper. But because I tend to get some tiny scratches to bottom of my lowers (adventure rides, some forgotten trails of even no trails) I was too afraid to try. Among with the fact that air fork is always a bit sketchy on winter.

 

[THA]

Shockcraft haven't answered since Tuesday, when I asked them about the time schedule / queue length from the time they receive my damper.
In case they get active again and I feel comfortable to send my damper overseas, has anyone here knowledge about the shim size They use in midvalve (iD especially)? Quite straight forward they maybe just turn the axle oD to 7 mm, which is a size that needs to be hunted for, such limited availability in Europe (at least...).
As backup plan I already designed a new axle / piston rod end by myself to meet iD 8 mm true midvalve shim stack...

 

[tooFATtoRIDE]

.....I'm still discussing it tonight with my friends, but I think my choice is going to be... the Dorado
...

@MarPec - did you end up with Dorado?

It seems Dorado for the 29er has the max 138mm of the cuo to cup distance.