Update the EP 801 RS with the “classic” SHIMANO EP 801 (RISE 2025) ?

[stefighters]

HI Eveyone.

I own an ORBEA RISE LT M10 model 2025 for 2 months.

The EP 801 RS does not give all the power it can give in its RS version compared to a classic SHIMANO version.
Is it possible to update the RISE engine with the EP 801 Classique firmware ?

I imagine that I will lose the SHIMANO warranty but I would like to know if this is possible and especially how.
The store where I bought the bike tells me that it's possible but he refuse to do it...

 

[markloch]

You can change power/torque output using programs like those from emax-tuning though not sure whether you can do it over Bluetooth (via iOS or android app) or if you need the pce02 interface and the windows app (I have the pce02). I was able to do it over BT with the iOS app though not sure if it was because I first used the windows app and pce02. Worth a try with the app though - it’s free.

On my ‘23 Urrun I’ve got “fine tune” profile @ 85nm and 600w. The eco/trail/boost profile I have at more or less stock power and torque, mainly for when I’m using the range extender.

 

[Tony4wd]

If you call other shops you may find one that's happy to install the standard ep801 software. In Australia some shops will and some won't. My 2022 Rise had the standard EP8 software installed by the shop before I took delivery - Shimano doesn't care either way.

 

[stefighters]

thanks for this information. I'll see if emax tuning is compatible with the ep801 rs in bluetooth or wired.
Shimano has just told me that they can do the modification but that I will lose the warranty. fuckers!
I will indeed contact other stores and will keep you informed if this can help other people who have the same need.
indeed, this bike is great but on very technical climbs, it lacks the boost that allows you to pass the obstacle, like on the bosh cx or the classic EP801 ....

 

[Astro66]

Just keep in mind the battery isn't designed for full power. It will probably be fine, but nothing kills batteries quicker than overheating from excess power draw. That's why it will void your warranty.

 

[Tony4wd]

Shimano has just told me that they can do the modification but that I will lose the warranty

My shop said the warranty would still be valid on my 2022 Rise when they changed to EP8 software, but you never know what will happen at claim time. Partly to compensate for warranty denials I'll only buy expensive new bikes at a big discount (40% off back when I bought my Rise).

 

[stefighters]

Just keep in mind the battery isn't designed for full power. It will probably be fine, but nothing kills batteries quicker than overheating from excess power draw. That's why it will void your warranty.

thanks. the only thing i need on this bike is a real boost mode with the 600w available in peak. the ep801 rs is stuck at 400w peak in boost mode. i will never use this possibility for long

 

[markloch]

Just keep in mind the battery isn't designed for full power. It will probably be fine, but nothing kills batteries quicker than overheating from excess power draw. That's why it will void your warranty

elsewhere there’s a conversation about this.

I have an Orbea Urrun, 540wh battery and the 801-RS. Orbea sells more or less same bike - the Kemen - as an urban bike (same frame and battery but taller and fewer gears, less fork travel, fenders etc) but with the full-fat 801 motor @ 85nm (though not sure if it’s power restricted to something less that 600w).

Meanwhile there’s the 242wh range extender which certainly can’t draw 600w.

Someone who understands batteries way better than I ran the numbers and calculated the 540wh battery could handle 600w.

(Post in thread 'Ep8 rs full power'
Ep8 rs full power)

So I have profile #2 ‘fine tune’ maxxing out at 85nm and 500w (or 600, I may have bumped it up).

Profile #1 is more or less stock RS eco/trail/boost power but with higher torque. When the range extender is powering the motor I use this profile.

I’ve found for all but my steeper climbs profile #1 works for me, though makes me work a little harder.

That said I’ve thought to bump #1 power settings from 150/250/350 to 200/300/400 if I can get a battery wizard to OK it. Why? My understanding is that the “RS 2.0” supports 85nm and 400w, and I’m wondering if they max it at 400w so it will support the 242wh battery …

 

[Astro66]

elsewhere there’s a conversation about this.

I work in heat calculations. When I design installations, I calculate the heat load being created, and the ability of the installation to dissipate the heat.

Just because a battery can output a power level. It doesn't mean the battery installation was designed for that power level.

I'm sure it will be fine in 90% of cases. But if the bike designer factored in heat dissipation into the design of the battery and it's mounting. It would have been at the bikes rated power level. Increased power level would definitely impact temperature levels of the battery, especially as heat produced is proportional to the current squared.

Merida have designed air vents into the top of some of their carbon frames, specifically to improve heat dissipation from the battery and increase battery life.

 

[Backflip]

I work in heat calculations. When I design installations, I calculate the heat load being created, and the ability of the installation to dissipate the heat.

Just because a battery can output a power level. It doesn't mean the battery installation was designed for that power level.

I'm sure it will be fine in 90% of cases. But if the bike designer factored in heat dissipation into the design of the battery and it's mounting. It would have been at the bikes rated power level. Increased power level would definitely impact temperature levels of the battery, especially as heat produced is proportional to the current squared.

Merida have designed air vents into the top of some of their carbon frames, specifically to improve heat dissipation from the battery and increase battery life.

I absolutely agree with these words.
However, Shimano´s thermal protection system is very sensitive and works perfectly.
So if motor or battery will get to hot due to excessive currents (which also can be on a "non-modified" bike due to extremely hot environment, continuous stiff uphill, high weight of bike and biker), then this thermal protection system will (temporarily) decrease the output of the drive unit or even power off the system and a warning or error will be shown on the bike display and in the internal protocol.
Regarding increased values for max. peak power and max. torque for Orbea reduced "RS" drive units:
You easily can use these values if you only use the internal battery.

However when also using some early production range extenders (with some early firmware version of the BMS which is the internal electronics of the battery pack), it may happen that this range extender may not be able (also due to the cabling connection from the range extender to the bike) to deliver the necessary high currents.
In this case it may be the case that the bike will switch off (however can be switched on instantly again).
This will not do any harm to the bike, however, for sure it can be quite annoying, especially going uphill on hard trails.
This is why with some of these range extenders it may be useful not to use the highest performance mode to prevent this situation, especially if the current range extender level is already quite low (which might increase the risk of such a power off situation).
So, if you are using a range extender on an Orbea bike and you also have increased max. peak power and max. torque to the default values of the standard Shimano drive unit (e.g. 500W and 85Nm on a DU-EP800 or DU-EP600 and 600W and 85Nm on a DU-EP801), then just give it a try if your range extender will react this way in an easy manageable environment with some stiff hills and range exender with already low level, so then you know if you are "at risk" of such a situation when using the range extender.

 

[b33k34]

What is the impact of the reduced power (rather than torque) on the Rise? I was thinking it would mean you'd get up something just as steep as on a unrestricted bike, but not quite as quickly?

 

[Backflip]

What is the impact of the reduced power (rather than torque) on the Rise? I was thinking it would mean you'd get up something just as steep as on a unrestricted bike, but not quite as quickly?

As long as you don´t reach one of the 2 currently programmed limits (either max. torque or max. peak power) of the drive unit, you will go up the hill with the same speed. The peak power value (like also the max. torque value) is just a limiting value for the motor and if you don´t reach this limit in normal riding conditions, everything will stay exactly the same.
Maybe see also this post.
However, if you will hit one of these programmed limits (e.g. the reduced max. peak power), then either you will be slower going uphill or you have to pedal harder by yourself (so you need to invest the power that the drive unit will not give anymore) to go uphill with the same speed or within the same time.
For going uphill in a certain time at the same circumstances, you always need a certain amount of energy and if you don´t get this energy from the drive unit anymore, then you are the one you need to give it to the bike, otherwise you will be slower.