Answered Tubeless going flat

[jamied]

Hi,

I've just got my new bike and thought I'd convert it to tubeless but having a bit of trouble. I have raceface AR30 rims and maxxis minion dhf tyres. Both are tubeless ready. I took off the tyre and there was already tape covering the spoke holes (I assumed I didn't need to add more tape), added the valve and then stuck the sealant into the tyre. Once it was inflated it all looked good to start with but after a minute of so the tyre went flat, I pumped it up again and could head the air escaping but could not see any sealant coming out anywhere. After listening all around the tyre I fount that the air is actually escaping through 2 small holes in the rim and I assume the tyre seal is actually good.

Did I screw up and actually need to put tape over the top of the existing tape or is the rim tape that's on there not been applied properly. or has something else gone wrong?

Thanks

 

[Theolegit]

Hi,

I've just got my new bike and thought I'd convert it to tubeless but having a bit of trouble. I have raceface AR30 rims and maxxis minion dhf tyres. Both are tubeless ready. I took off the tyre and there was already tape covering the spoke holes (I assumed I didn't need to add more tape), added the valve and then stuck the sealant into the tyre. Once it was inflated it all looked good to start with but after a minute of so the tyre went flat, I pumped it up again and could head the air escaping but could not see any sealant coming out anywhere. After listening all around the tyre I fount that the air is actually escaping through 2 small holes in the rim and I assume the tyre seal is actually good.

Did I screw up and actually need to put tape over the top of the existing tape or is the rim tape that's on there not been applied properly. or has something else gone wrong?

Thanks

Gorilla tape the rims, remove existing tape, clean with isopropanol, apply tape gently heating with a hairdryer to mold to rims, make a very small cut and push through the valve, then reset the tyres, some tape applied by the wheel manufacturers are done very poorly, always found this method foolproof.

 

[ccrdave]

I think the rim needs to be taped from bead hook to bead hook if all you have is standard rim strip it wont seal. Take the strip off get some tape wide enough to cover the whole width of the inner rim, this should also cover those two little holes which i think are there to let trapped air out if you use a tube

 

[Gary]

If you are unsure of where the air is leaking from submerge the wheel in water just like you did in the old days to find bubbles from a a puncture in a tube.

Does sound like you need to re-tape your rims. Another thing to check is the valve is sealing against the rim nicely and the valve core is tightened properly.

As for taping. I'd only ever use gorila tape on rims with an inner well that is a really awkward shape to tape. Otherwise I'd always use Tesa tape
gorilla tape works but it isn't the best choice as it isn't air tight, absorbs sealant and is more dificult to remover cleanly as after a while it's adhesive leaves a stubborn residue.
Tesa tape is what stans sell. But by not buying from a bicycle company you'll avoid what I call cyclist tax. You'll find it on Ebay for about £11 for a massive roll that will do many many wheels. (Search for Tesa4289 in a width suitable for your particular rims).

Something I always do if I'm resorting to gorilla tape is use one wrap of electrical insulating tape to cover all the valve holes and rim joint BEFORE fitting a wrap of gorilla tape. Insulating tape IS airtight and doesn't absorb sealant but unfotunately IMO doesn't have a strong enough adhesive to be used on it's own with sealant.

 

[jamied]

This is really frustrating, I tried doing the back wheel last night. Pulled off the existing tape (glad I did as I found a hole in it!) cleaned with isopropanol, I used 25mm gorilla tape as thats what the bike shop I got the valves from sweared by. Put the tape on and pressed it down really thoroughly, stuck the nutrak magic milk in, pumped up really easily with a track pump then shook and span it around a bit. Listened for air leaks an couldn't hear anything, came back this morning and its gone flat. I'll stick in some water later to see where the air is coming from.

Does anyone know if the raceface AR30's are actually tubeless ready? I can't find any official information on them it appears they are the OEM version of the ARC30.

 

[jamied]

Just pumped the back tyre up to 60psi and can feel that air coming out of the little holes in the rim so I guess it's that tape thats not sealed properly on the rim. I've run out of sealant now so will have to head back to the shop. I'm not sure I'm a fan of tubeless so far.

 

[ccrdave]

I would suggest you need wider tape 30mm rim depending on the shape of the rim i would say 35 mm tape

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Just pumped the back tyre up to 60psi and can feel that air coming out of the little holes in the rim so I guess it's that tape thats not sealed properly on the rim. I've run out of sealant now so will have to head back to the shop. I'm not sure I'm a fan of tubeless so far.

It is an absolute pain when it doesn't work, and so frustrating. I have 2 kids bikes that I tried and tried to convert to tubeless with all the correct kit. It just didn't work! I gave up and stuck tubes back in those bikes!

 

[ccrdave]

Just pumped the back tyre up to 60psi and can feel that air coming out of the little holes in the rim so I guess it's that tape thats not sealed properly on the rim. I've run out of sealant now so will have to head back to the shop. I'm not sure I'm a fan of tubeless so far.

Where are you based? Maybe somebody could give you a hand, if im near enough i will help

 

[jamied]

Where are you based? Maybe somebody could give you a hand, if im near enough i will help

Thanks Dave that's a really kind offer. I'm based in south devon (UK).

I have a feeling I may have mostly cracked the rear tyre. I've really shaken it around and although I can see small bubbles very slowly appearing on the sidewalls when held under water it's stayed inflated for a couple of hours. After speaking to the bike shop it sound like I need to take it for a couple of rides and keep pumping it up in order to work the sealant all the way around the tyre.

After taking the front tyre off again (the one where I didn't apply new tape) I could see that the sealant was spread around the tyre but the sidewalls didn't have much on. I guess thats the hardest part to get the sealant to reach all the way around. I need to head back to the bike shop to pick up more sealant and they said they would help if I've not managed to get it to seal fully by the time I go in.

Getting a tyre with sealant off is a right PITA, I can see why some people don't like using it. The tyre leavers were slipping all over the place and I really struggled to get it started.

 

[Theolegit]

Thanks Dave that's a really kind offer. I'm based in south devon (UK).

I have a feeling I may have mostly cracked the rear tyre. I've really shaken it around and although I can see small bubbles very slowly appearing on the sidewalls when held under water it's stayed inflated for a couple of hours. After speaking to the bike shop it sound like I need to take it for a couple of rides and keep pumping it up in order to work the sealant all the way around the tyre.

After taking the front tyre off again (the one where I didn't apply new tape) I could see that the sealant was spread around the tyre but the sidewalls didn't have much on. I guess thats the hardest part to get the sealant to reach all the way around. I need to head back to the bike shop to pick up more sealant and they said they would help if I've not managed to get it to seal fully by the time I go in.

Getting a tyre with sealant off is a right PITA, I can see why some people don't like using it. The tyre leavers were slipping all over the place and I really struggled to get it started.

1st tyre I ever did took a whole morning to seal, shaking riding checking again after over inflating overnight.
Now, we’ll the last one was five in 10 minutes, keep going you’ll get there in the end and it’s well, well worth it.

 

[jamied]

Just got back from a very short ride (son took a spill on a steep hill and had to be wheel back home) and tyre stayed inflated, hopefully it will stay up overnight now. I'll keep persisting with it if not.

 

[Ade]

Hope your son is ok and hope your tyres stay up.
Im converting to tubeless tomorrow, I am a bit worried about it but I am convinced its the way forward

 

[jamied]

Hope your son is ok and hope your tyres stay up.
Im converting to tubeless tomorrow, I am a bit worried about it but I am convinced its the way forward

He's ok thanks, he's just moved up to a 20" wheeled bike so is just getting used to it, got out of control on a hill and went over the handle bars but got away with a skinned knee and is a bit shaken up.

If you have any trouble Ade we can moan about it together

 

[eFat]

I use FattyStripper and milKit valves. Hard to find a more convenient solution.

 

[Kernow]

Thanks Dave that's a really kind offer. I'm based in south devon (UK).

I have a feeling I may have mostly cracked the rear tyre. I've really shaken it around and although I can see small bubbles very slowly appearing on the sidewalls when held under water it's stayed inflated for a couple of hours. After speaking to the bike shop it sound like I need to take it for a couple of rides and keep pumping it up in order to work the sealant all the way around the tyre.

After taking the front tyre off again (the one where I didn't apply new tape) I could see that the sealant was spread around the tyre but the sidewalls didn't have much on. I guess thats the hardest part to get the sealant to reach all the way around. I need to head back to the bike shop to pick up more sealant and they said they would help if I've not managed to get it to seal fully by the time I go in.

Getting a tyre with sealant off is a right PITA, I can see why some people don't like using it. The tyre leavers were slipping all over the place and I really struggled to get it started.

Iam in Liskeard , happy to help you . I have lots of experience with tubeless . Sounds to me like your tape probably isn’t wide enough , maybe post a pic

 

[jamied]

Iam in Liskeard , happy to help you . I have lots of experience with tubeless . Sounds to me like your tape probably isn’t wide enough , maybe post a pic

I lived in Liskeard until I was about 7, small world, how long have you lived there?

When I checked the tyre this morning it had lost some pressure but was not totally flat like the previous night so I think it's getting there. Hopefully another ride or 2 will sort it out. If I continue to have problems I may well take you up on that offer. I'm going to tackle the front wheel again once I've picked up some more sealant, I'll post pics when I do that one.

 

[Kernow]

I lived in Liskeard until I was about 7, small world, how long have you lived there?

When I checked the tyre this morning it had lost some pressure but was not totally flat like the previous night so I think it's getting there. Hopefully another ride or 2 will sort it out. If I continue to have problems I may well take you up on that offer. I'm going to tackle the front wheel again once I've picked up some more sealant, I'll post pics when I do that one.

Iam in Pensilva Jamied , lived here for about 30 plus years now , grew up in saltash .
Some tyres can be a bit porous and take a while to seal , but that’s usually light Xc tyres , especially contis , not heavier tyres we use on ebikes .

 

[AKOutfitter]

I used the fatty stripper kit on 80mm double rims with Dillinger 5 studded tires when I went tubless on my Felt Fat eBike. Rear tire bead sealed great from the start, I had some sealant bubbling out along the front rim where there was a seam and pressure would drop over a few hours. Adding a few more ounces of Stan's sealant as recommended by LBS seems to have fixed it. The latex rim liners over the factory rim tape made the process easy. Got an extra set when I ordered them so I can use them to swap over to summer tires when the snow is gone.

 

[jamied]

Whats the deal with mixing different brands of sealant, ok, not ok? I've ordered some stans sealant and realised that the stans stuff states it can seal holes up to 6mm where as the nutrak stuff the local shop sold me only seals up to 3mm holes. I'm wondering if the issue is the sealant isn't very good. Can I just add some more stans to the tyre and it will work or is it best to wash out the wheel and start over with new sealant?

 

[jamied]

I decided to start over and found that the gorilla tape was bunched up in places and coming off the rim. Cleaned it all off and started over, when applying the new tape I think I've found the issue, the tape is 25mm and my rims are 30mm internally. The tape ends in almost the same place as a groove in the rim and results in the tape overhanging a tiny lip by a fraction of a mm. It's really hard to get the tape to stick at the edge due to this. I ended up hair drying the shit out of it and using a tyre lever to press it down, I went round about 4 times on each side before I could see the tiny overhang was fully adhered all the way round. I put stans sealant in this time which is way thinner than the stuff I was using before and way easier to shake around the tyre. There isn't any air coming out of the holes in the rim this time, I will leave overnight and see if it's still inflated in the morning. Fingers crossed.

I have managed to buckle the rim in the process though, which was probably caused by the heat of the hair dryer. I'll have to take it to the shop to get straightened. I think my particular rim does not work well with 25mm gorilla tape, had the tape of been slightly narrower or 30mm wide it would have been much easier to apply.

 

[jamied]

I don't think I'd use gorilla tape again. I have some stans on order but I'm going riding tomorrow and I had the option of using more gorilla tape or some stuff from the local bike shop that they said was rubbish. I've had 2 bike shops recommend gorilla tape now.

The hair dryer was a powerful beast and was too hot to put on my finders for more than a few seconds.

 

[ChrisP]

Whats the deal with mixing different brands of sealant, ok, not ok? I've ordered some stans sealant and realised that the stans stuff states it can seal holes up to 6mm where as the nutrak stuff the local shop sold me only seals up to 3mm holes. I'm wondering if the issue is the sealant isn't very good. Can I just add some more stans to the tyre and it will work or is it best to wash out the wheel and start over with new sealant?

I can definitely recommend Stans - been using it for a year or 2 now. Until recently, I was always used to pumping my tyres up every few days......until I used Gorilla tape!! Thoroughly cleaned the rim with alcohol, 25mm Gorilla tape seated nicely over the rim holes, then the correct size rim tape for your wheel over the top of that. Been nearly 4 weeks since I did that and not had to add any air in that time.
You also seem to go through a lot of sealant whilst sorting out your woes! Do you not re-use the old stuff? As long as its not been in the tyre for a few months its perfectly fine to scoop it all out with a large spoon or similar and go again.

 

[jamied]

The tyre stayed up over night with no loss of pressure and I've just been for a ride and no loss, been running at 40psi to try and help the sealant do it's job so will lower the pressure and hopefully all will be good.

I have a roll of stans coming today so I'm going to do the front wheel with that and see how I get on and if it's better/worse than gorilla tape.

 

[jamied]

Just did the front wheel with stans tape. First time I messed it up, didn't get the tape down into the groove properly, I think I was pulling it too tight as I went around. Second time went on fine, inflated and looks good so far, I'll see if it stays up over night.

I much prefer the stans tape (assuming it says up), if you screw it up you're not left with a royal mess to clean off and once you have the technique right it goes on easier.

 

[Sijmes]

Just did the front wheel with stans tape. First time I messed it up, didn't get the tape down into the groove properly, I think I was pulling it too tight as I went around. Second time went on fine, inflated and looks good so far, I'll see if it stays up over night.

I much prefer the stans tape (assuming it says up), if you screw it up you're not left with a royal mess to clean off and once you have the technique right it goes on easier.

I'm in the same boat. Does the air escape first via the spoke nipples to the rim cavity and then.out through the air holes ? The rim tape that the wheels came with looked pretty bona fide to me too, but air escaped via the breather holes.

 

[jamied]

I'm in the same boat. Does the air escape first via the spoke nipples to the rim cavity and then.out through the air holes ? The rim tape that the wheels came with looked pretty bona fide to me too, but air escaped via the breather holes.

My tyres have been fine now, my last message was from 2 years ago and I've still got the same stans tape in place. No leaks at all.

Not sure which rims you have but the tape they come with may not be air tight, some have tape that is just there to stop the inner tubes getting snagged on any sharp bits. Mine were supposed to be tubeless ready but the tape that came on the rims was in no way air-tight.

I'd recommend using stans tape, don't put too much tension on it when applying, just enough to make it sit well and use a thumb to press it down in the middle as you go around, once in place go round with something hard and plastic to really push it down at the edges to stick it. Don't bother with gorilla tape, it's not air-tight, goes soggy at the edges onces you put the sealant in and is a total nightmare to clean off the adhesive if you mess it up.

 

[steve_sordy]

.............. Don't bother with gorilla tape, it's not air-tight, goes soggy at the edges onces you put the sealant in and is a total nightmare to clean off the adhesive if you mess it up.

Fascinating! I keep seeing this in various places, but it is not my experience at all. I wonder if there are some bootleg copies of Gorilla tape around. (But it's so cheap why bother?) Or maybe it points to a lack of consistent quality control by whoever it is makes Gorilla tape. It was the bike shop at Sherwood Pines in the UK that recommended me to use Gorilla tape, or I wouldn't have even tried it. It has never failed for me, whereas the rim tape on several brand new bikes (not cheap ones) have all failed. I will stick to Gorilla tape until I experience your problems.

I put one stripe down the left of the rim close up to the bead and one stripe to the right. That gives me the essential two layers over the spoke holes. I overlap the valve hole by about 4". Then pierce through the tape into the valve hole with a screwdriver then round it out with a tapered object (anything handy). Plenty of firm pressure whilst applying the tape, no need for hair driers. But I guess if I was out in the shed and it was winter it could be necessary.

 

[jamied]

Fascinating! I keep seeing this in various places, but it is not my experience at all. I wonder if there are some bootleg copies of Gorilla tape around. (But it's so cheap why bother?) Or maybe it points to a lack of consistent quality control by whoever it is makes Gorilla tape. It was the bike shop at Sherwood Pines in the UK that recommended me to use Gorilla tape, or I wouldn't have even tried it.

The only reason I tried gorilla tape was because I'd seen people recommending it online and a bike shop had recommended it too. I wonder if it's recommended so much because it requires less technique to get it on, and is a lot cheaper?

I tried 3 times with gorilla branded tape, the black stuff, cleaned rim with alcohol, pressed it down like you wouldn't believe, hair drier on it. Each time the seal failed, when I took the tyre off the tape had come unstuck.

 

[steve_sordy]

I wonder if the sealant and the adhesive on the Gorilla tape might be reacting?
I use Continental Revo Sealant, it claims to have no ammonia which I'm told can attack some types of tyre material.