Transition Relay Suspension Setup Thread

[ehfour]

With Transition being one of the easier bikes to setup, sometimes someone else's setup can help you when you're starting out

I've also included the TR setup guide that was sent to me from TR

Rider Weight- 187Lbs
Bike weight- 43Lbs
Location: BC/PNW

Suspension -
Update 09/11
FOX 38 170mm Grip2

• 2 volume spacers
• 112 PSI
• LSR 9-10/16 from closed
• HSR 3-4/8 from closed
• LSC 7-9/16 from closed
• HSC 3-4/8 from closed

FOX Float X Performance

• 0.8 volume spacers
• 210 PSI-> 225 PSI
• LSR 5-6 on the dial
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 

 

[Mr Tonka]

Did you request that from Transition?

 

[ehfour]

Yup- I sent them an email, asking for a setup guide like they have for the Spire and they fired that PDF back to me

 

[Mr Tonka]

Thanks, I'm pretty dialed, but there are 3 new Relays in town and they are all asking me for help. haha I wonder if they have the guide for the PNW version.

 

[Waldo J]

I just sent Transition an email asking if they have a guide for the Relay PNW. I'll let you know what they say.

 

[Mr Tonka]

Sweet!

I just sent Transition an email asking if they have a guide for the Relay PNW. I'll let you know what they say.

 

[Mr Tonka]

The PNW Relay being my first experience with a coil shock, I've been learning a little bit. Figured I'd share my thoughts and what I've learned. .

First I'll share my experience in regards to Transition's spring rate decision for the PNW builds. Essentially, I think they are on the light side. I ordered size medium which comes with a 400# spring. (requires 400 pounds to compress the spring 1 inch) I ride a bit aggressive and I my ride weight is about 200 pounds so before ever riding the bike, I had them swap out the 400 for a 450 which comes on their size large. When I rode in Bellingham that felt just fine but when I got home and started hitting more drops and jumps, I was feeling bottom out quite regularly. So, having just sold a road bike and a mountain bike which covered the cost of my Relay and then some, I bought the Push Eleven-Six. The 11/6 came with a 450 spring, but I rarely ever feel a bottom out. The only time I feel a bottom out on the 11/6 is when I make a substantial mistake, basically a huge case. Where as with the DHX, I felt bottom out when landing smooth and where I was supposed to.

My GF's Relay came with a 350 on it and I swapped it for the 400 mine came with and she's feeling bottom out regally as well. But, I'll admit she tends to over send jumps and lands pretty deep.

So, in looking for maybe a 425 spring for her, I learned what the numbers on the spring mean. 400x2.8 = 400 pound spring rate for a spring which can compress 2.8" (71.1mm) before being fully compressed. This got me wondering about something because my Push 11/6 came with a 450x2.9 (73.6mm) spring. The stroke of the DHX on the PNW is 65mm (2.559 inches) that means the spring that comes in the DHX is 6mm (.241 inches) longer than the stroke of the shock. BUT... when you set the sag on a coil, the more preload you add, the more travel you remove from the spring. So if you add in more than .241" or 6mm of preload, you are effectively reducing the travel of your rear suspension.

Say you dial in 10mm of preload to the spring that came with your PNW. At that point, your spring will reach max compression at 61mm of stroke rather than 65mm. Doesn't seem like a big deal, but that brings up the question, is the sensation of a bottom out worse when the spring binds fully? My gut says yes. My gut says that when bottom out is reached by the spring being fully bound, metal on metal, it feels worse when the shock hits bottom out on the rubber stopper. I'm not an engineer and I don't have loads of experience setting up and optimizing a coil shock, but this seems like something that can drastically change the feel of a bike.

With my DHX, I would feel bottom out regularly and it felt very harsh. Not like an air shock bottom out and now that I have the Push shock, the DHX also felt way more harsh than my Push bottom out. The Push bottom out happens far less frequently and almost always is accompanied with a fork bottom out as well.

I suppose this is why it's important to get the right spring rate for you rather than just dialing more preload to get the desired sag measurement.

Would love to hear from an engineer or someone experienced with optimizing coil shock set ups.

**Bonus postulation... there are several jumps in my home trails which I never liked. I never felt comfortable on them at all. One specific jump named the "Gwazi jump". Once I got the PNW Relay, ALL the jumps at my home trails felt great. In fact, Gwazi felt perfect, I could go fast, slow, boost, scrub, didn't matter, it felt fine every time. So much so that the second day riding my home trails, I learned one handers, tire grabs and seat grabs on that jump. This shocked me as well as many of my friends because I always said I'd never take my hands off the bars.

So what changed? E-bike, yes. Very slack bike, yes. Longer travel bike, yes. Heavier more stable bike, yes. All of which likely contribute, but I now have come to believe the biggest contributor to me feeling so sold on all the jumps, is the coil shock. Here is my logic behind that statement. A coil shock is quite linear vs an air shock which is quite progressive. The more you compress an air spring the more pressure builds in the air spring and thus, the harder it rebounds. The rebound of a linear spring changes MUCH less with a bit more compression. Riding a full suspension bike into a jump will compress all the suspension. Unless you are pro level consistent we all are going to preload a bit differently on jump faces, even the same jump.

If preload were numbered 1 - 10 with 1 being almost no preload and 10 being max preload. Preloading the rear suspension on an air sprung bike to 8 will result in a harsher rebound than a preload of 4. Yes, both air and coil shocks have rebound dampening to control the speed of the rebound, but I'm guessing with rebound being equal, an air spring compressed to 500psi will rebound somewhat faster than the same air spring compressed to 300psi. I know that I've felt an air shock at 100psi barely seem to rebound and without changing the rebound settings, adding another 100psi to the air spring causes the shock to rebound much more sharply.

Basically, with a coil shock, I'm feeling like my differences in preload on the jump face doesn't result in bucking as much as it did with an air sprung shock. With an air sprung shock, I lacked all kinds of consistency. With a coil shock, consistency has shown up and stuck around.

 

[Waldo J]

Nice write up Tonka!

I weigh ~210-220 with riding gear and this is what Transition replied with. I also have a medium with a 400 lb spring.

“Based on your weight, I recommend a 500-550 lb spring.
HERE is a link to a spring calculator. For the Relay PNW, we recommend 25.8% sag.
HERE is a setup guide for the FOX 38.”

 

[Mr Tonka]

Nice write up Tonka!

I weigh ~210-220 with riding gear and this is what Transition replied with. I also have a medium with a 400 lb spring.

“Based on your weight, I recommend a 500-550 lb spring.
HERE is a link to a spring calculator. For the Relay PNW, we recommend 25.8% sag.
HERE is a setup guide for the FOX 38.”

I used that spring calculator when deciding on 400 spring for the GF. With my own information, it put me right above a 450lb spring when riding at 200.

Their answer makes me think their size Medium PNW is set up for about a 170-180 pound rider.

 

[ehfour]

So speaking for the FOX 38, I threw one on the Relay after swapping to a 160mm airshaft

For whatever reason, this air spring is by far the most linear/plushest air spring I've ever ridding on a 38, Im well above the recommended pressure and wondering if that's the case due to the shorter air spring

(Nerd section) - Does 18 more psi and an additional token seem reasonable? Maybe? total system weight is 276lbs vs 221 lbs- maybe the 55 lbs difference is what makes the need for so much more pressure and damping? maybe I answered my own question...


My setup
Rider Weight- 187-189Lbs
Bike weight- 43Lbs
Location: BC/PNW

Suspension - Update 04/25 in Bold

FOX 38 160MM Grip 2

• 1 volume spacers -> 2
• 112 PSI-> 115 PSI->118 PSI
• LSR 6-7/16 from closed ->8-9
• HSR 3-4/8 from closed-> 2-3
• LSC 12-13/16 from closed-> 10-12
• HSC 4-5/8 from closed-> 3-5

Vs

Bike Megatower V2 170mm- 35lbs
Rider: 184-185lbs

• 1 volume spacers
• 99PSI
• LSR 8-9/16 from closed
• HSR 5-6 /8 from closed
• LSC 11-12/16 from closed
• HSC 4-5/8 from closed

 

[Mr Tonka]

So speaking for the FOX 38, I threw one on the Relay after swapping to a 160mm airshaft

For whatever reason, this air spring is by far the most linear/plushest air spring I've ever ridding on a 38, Im well above the recommended pressure and wondering if that's the case due to the shorter air spring

(Nerd section) - Does 18 more psi and an additional token seem reasonable? Maybe? total system weight is 276lbs vs 221 lbs- maybe the 55 lbs difference is what makes the need for so much more pressure and damping? maybe I answered my own question...


My setup
Rider Weight- 187-189Lbs
Bike weight- 43Lbs
Location: BC/PNW

Suspension - Update 04/25 in Bold

FOX 38 160MM Grip 2

• 1 volume spacers -> 2
• 112 PSI-> 115 PSI->118 PSI
• LSR 6-7/16 from closed ->8-9
• HSR 3-4/8 from closed-> 2-3
• LSC 12-13/16 from closed-> 10-12
• HSC 4-5/8 from closed-> 3-5

Vs

Bike Megatower V2 170mm- 35lbs
Rider: 184-185lbs

• 1 volume spacers
• 99PSI
• LSR 8-9/16 from closed
• HSR 5-6 /8 from closed
• LSC 11-12/16 from closed
• HSC 4-5/8 from closed

That's interesting. When I did a lower leg service on my 170 38, I put 94psi back in the air spring. My fork felt quite stiff and my LBS agreed. I dropped it down to 90psi and now it feels like it did prior to the service. I ride at 200lbs with a 45lb bike. I have an MRP ramp control in the air spring in lieu of tokens. But I set it up in the middle setting for home riding and adjust it accordingly when I go out of town. So it's dead in the middle where I set the sag.

 

[ehfour]

Ya its a bit of mystery to me, I'll just keep adding air for now

The MRP ramp control looks pretty cool

 

[Mr Tonka]

Ya its a bit of mystery to me, I'll just keep adding air for now

The MRP ramp control looks pretty cool

My LBS mechanic says his factory 38 requires about 5psi less than what is recommended for his weight to feel right to him. He's on a Fazua equipped Heckler SL. And he rips.

It works for sure. Adding or removing tokens by the twice of a knob. But if you don't travel or have a verity of trails that require more or less progressive ramp up, it's not very useful. I keep it in the middle here at home. If I'm riding tech trails out of town without any jumps or drops I can dial it back and get a very plush ride down into the mid stroke of the fork. But if I go from there to a flow jump trail I can add in some bottom out help by dialing it back up.

 

[MVC]

Fox 36 Factory 170mm


I ran air pressure lower than recommend. Set sag at 30mm. Fork felt pretty good once I got up to speed. I have found the Relay for me likes allot of front end pressure to rail the corners. This week installed spring kit Smashpot. It could be because it's new but I have allot more confidence with the spring kit and running less sag 26mm. Fork stays up in the stroke, better front tire traction. It feels different from the air spring doesn't feel like it's binding up. With the spring I was surprised I can now use high speed compression. With the air spring I could not use high speed compression the fork would feel harsh in my wrists.

 

[Suns_PSD]

My info isn't very useful to most here as I have front/ rear Avalanche Suspension. The front is a Hybrid modified Mezzer that still needs just a bit more dialing in and the rear is a Bomber CR that was perfect from day one.

Spring rate is mostly about rider weight (assumes the same bike obviously) so I can share that.

I weigh 180#s and my shock is set up like it's a 60mm stroke (160mm travel) and Craig at Avalanche speced a 500# spring. My Relay is an XL. Pretty certain if we had gone with a 65mm stroke setting the spring rate could have gone down just a bit, 475# or so.

Obviously, Transition can only make a guess as to the average weight of a rider on a particular size. Some Medium Relay riders are going to weigh 130#s, and others will weigh 230#s. Thankfully springs are inexpensive. At a minimum they could offer to throw the correct spring in the box depending on the buyer's weight if not install it.

 

[Bbmtb]

Fox 36 Factory 170mm


I ran air pressure lower than recommend. Set sag at 30mm. Fork felt pretty good once I got up to speed. I have found the Relay for me likes allot of front end pressure to rail the corners. This week installed spring kit Smashpot. It could be because it's new but I have allot more confidence with the spring kit and running less sag 26mm. Fork stays up in the stroke, better front tire traction. It feels different from the air spring doesn't feel like it's binding up. With the spring I was surprised I can now use high speed compression. With the air spring I could not use high speed compression the fork would feel harsh in my wrists.

Very interesting. Would love to get more from you after you install the Smashpot and ride it a bit.

 

[Natch]

This isn't Relay-specific, but I love how mine performs with the Avalanche coil-hybrid upgrade. It's a long wait though so if you want something sooner, MRP has a sale until Sep. 3, 2024 that includes their Lift damper upgrade. Coupon code "LABORDAY15"

Lift Damper Upgrades

Makers of high-end mountain bike suspension, drivetrain products and components. MRP products are designed, tested and built in Colorado.

mrpbike.com

 

[Mr Tonka]

The PNW Relay being my first experience with a coil shock, I've been learning a little bit. Figured I'd share my thoughts and what I've learned. .

First I'll share my experience in regards to Transition's spring rate decision for the PNW builds. Essentially, I think they are on the light side. I ordered size medium which comes with a 400# spring. (requires 400 pounds to compress the spring 1 inch) I ride a bit aggressive and I my ride weight is about 200 pounds so before ever riding the bike, I had them swap out the 400 for a 450 which comes on their size large. When I rode in Bellingham that felt just fine but when I got home and started hitting more drops and jumps, I was feeling bottom out quite regularly. So, having just sold a road bike and a mountain bike which covered the cost of my Relay and then some, I bought the Push Eleven-Six. The 11/6 came with a 450 spring, but I rarely ever feel a bottom out. The only time I feel a bottom out on the 11/6 is when I make a substantial mistake, basically a huge case. Where as with the DHX, I felt bottom out when landing smooth and where I was supposed to.

My GF's Relay came with a 350 on it and I swapped it for the 400 mine came with and she's feeling bottom out regally as well. But, I'll admit she tends to over send jumps and lands pretty deep.

So, in looking for maybe a 425 spring for her, I learned what the numbers on the spring mean. 400x2.8 = 400 pound spring rate for a spring which can compress 2.8" (71.1mm) before being fully compressed. This got me wondering about something because my Push 11/6 came with a 450x2.9 (73.6mm) spring. The stroke of the DHX on the PNW is 65mm (2.559 inches) that means the spring that comes in the DHX is 6mm (.241 inches) longer than the stroke of the shock. BUT... when you set the sag on a coil, the more preload you add, the more travel you remove from the spring. So if you add in more than .241" or 6mm of preload, you are effectively reducing the travel of your rear suspension.

Say you dial in 10mm of preload to the spring that came with your PNW. At that point, your spring will reach max compression at 61mm of stroke rather than 65mm. Doesn't seem like a big deal, but that brings up the question, is the sensation of a bottom out worse when the spring binds fully? My gut says yes. My gut says that when bottom out is reached by the spring being fully bound, metal on metal, it feels worse when the shock hits bottom out on the rubber stopper. I'm not an engineer and I don't have loads of experience setting up and optimizing a coil shock, but this seems like something that can drastically change the feel of a bike.

With my DHX, I would feel bottom out regularly and it felt very harsh. Not like an air shock bottom out and now that I have the Push shock, the DHX also felt way more harsh than my Push bottom out. The Push bottom out happens far less frequently and almost always is accompanied with a fork bottom out as well.

I suppose this is why it's important to get the right spring rate for you rather than just dialing more preload to get the desired sag measurement.

Would love to hear from an engineer or someone experienced with optimizing coil shock set ups.

**Bonus postulation... there are several jumps in my home trails which I never liked. I never felt comfortable on them at all. One specific jump named the "Gwazi jump". Once I got the PNW Relay, ALL the jumps at my home trails felt great. In fact, Gwazi felt perfect, I could go fast, slow, boost, scrub, didn't matter, it felt fine every time. So much so that the second day riding my home trails, I learned one handers, tire grabs and seat grabs on that jump. This shocked me as well as many of my friends because I always said I'd never take my hands off the bars.

So what changed? E-bike, yes. Very slack bike, yes. Longer travel bike, yes. Heavier more stable bike, yes. All of which likely contribute, but I now have come to believe the biggest contributor to me feeling so sold on all the jumps, is the coil shock. Here is my logic behind that statement. A coil shock is quite linear vs an air shock which is quite progressive. The more you compress an air spring the more pressure builds in the air spring and thus, the harder it rebounds. The rebound of a linear spring changes MUCH less with a bit more compression. Riding a full suspension bike into a jump will compress all the suspension. Unless you are pro level consistent we all are going to preload a bit differently on jump faces, even the same jump.

If preload were numbered 1 - 10 with 1 being almost no preload and 10 being max preload. Preloading the rear suspension on an air sprung bike to 8 will result in a harsher rebound than a preload of 4. Yes, both air and coil shocks have rebound dampening to control the speed of the rebound, but I'm guessing with rebound being equal, an air spring compressed to 500psi will rebound somewhat faster than the same air spring compressed to 300psi. I know that I've felt an air shock at 100psi barely seem to rebound and without changing the rebound settings, adding another 100psi to the air spring causes the shock to rebound much more sharply.

Basically, with a coil shock, I'm feeling like my differences in preload on the jump face doesn't result in bucking as much as it did with an air sprung shock. With an air sprung shock, I lacked all kinds of consistency. With a coil shock, consistency has shown up and stuck around.

This theory was tested with my TR11 DH bike. I took the air shock off of that and put a coil on it. I'm very consistent and confident on that bike as well when it comes to jumps.

 

[dumpy]

" Here is my logic behind that statement. A coil shock is quite linear vs an air shock which is quite progressive."

100%. I think of it as a computer mouse with acceleration on vs off. It takes a while to get used to acceleration, same for progression on a shock, and each frame/shock combo differs. Even on coil, your frame still adds progression, but the ramp up is still much less than on air. There's pros and cons to both, but it does also make me a lot more confident on jumps. Timing high speed ramp-up well is hard.

For what it's worth I run a relay pnw large, 190lbs kitted, stock DHX, 500 SLS spring. The 450 works but was just a bit too light to my taste. 475lbs is the perfect one in theory. I think that if you successfully setup the damping to use the 450, it's actually a potentially better choice (i.e. calculator & transition are probably right), but, good luck with that on the DHX.. makes me wonder what shock they run on their personal bikes. Prolly some fancy stuff.

 

[Mr Tonka]

100%. I think of it as a computer mouse with acceleration on vs off. It takes a while to get used to acceleration, same for progression on a shock, and each frame/shock combo differs. Even on coil, your frame still adds progression, but the ramp up is still much less than on air. There's pros and cons to both, but it does also make me a lot more confident on jumps. Timing high speed ramp-up well is hard.

For what it's worth I run a relay pnw large, 190lbs kitted, stock DHX, 500 SLS spring. The 450 works but was just a bit too light to my taste. 475lbs is the perfect one in theory. I think that if you successfully setup the damping to use the 450, it's actually a potentially better choice (i.e. calculator & transition are probably right), but, good luck with that on the DHX.. makes me wonder what shock they run on their personal bikes. Prolly some fancy stuff.

Exactly. Jumping is all timing and for most of us, we're jumping small jumps and ironically, those take more skill regarding timing. Big jumps require more courage, not as much skill because your suspension is largely more settled on bigger jumps. (not talking about steep BMX or dirt jumper style lips). The biggest jump on A-line in whistler takes the least amount of effort and skill. Most of the other jumps require some to a high level of jump skills, the moon booter just requires courage and speed.

Most of the time we mess up a smaller jump, we don't even realize it because before we get into the consequence curve, we've already landed. It's the medium/large jumps where we can get in trouble because those timing mistakes are amplified by the amount of time in the air. It's on those size jumps where my confidence has been greatly increased since riding coil shocks. And of course the Eeeb gives me lots of reps on them.

I rode out with the transition crew a few weeks ago on a shop group ride. There was only 2 e-bikes there, both repeaters. Most of the bikes looked pretty stock, most with air shocks. I swapped the shock on the TR11 because when I look at all their athletes who run the TR11, they are all using a coil.

 

[mustclime]

I love this guys videos because I ride a Kenevo. He loves to test suspension setups. He came up with the idea of starting your suspension set up by maxing your compression on your damper and setting your rebound full fast. Tried it today and I really like it.